+ Register

[alrelax]

I have written about baccarat tournaments in the past.  Everything since around the beginning of the removal of the big table bac (the 14 seat players 2 sided tables with the 3 dealers and the players dealing the shoe, etc.) has changed for the favor of the casino.  All of this started in the early 2000s and really picked up speed to curtail and change it all in favor of the casino probably around 2007 to 2010 or so. 

Attached is a claim against the Venetian in Las Vegas regarding one of their baccarat tournaments.  I will not comment of the validity of it or the plaintiffs merits cited within.  However, I will about the tournaments and how they have changed.  This all happened just prior to and along side of the entire comp/points awarding issue al changing for the casinos favor also, which was right around the same time and extending up to 2014/2015 or so. 

Back to tournaments.   Prior to what I mentioned above the way tournaments were handled were no-charge to the player.  Simply an invite status based upon their hosts and their play records, points.  There were no entrance fees and if there were, those would have been at some of the smaller casinos outside of the larger gaming jurisdictions. From the mid 80's, through the entire 90's and the early 2000's I never seen an entrance fee or anything of the likes of today with qualifying with points, etc., etc.  It was strictly an invite, upon arrival the player always was given a nice gift of some type, like Baccarat Crystal or other worthwhile items, a private buffet set-up in a near-by convention room just for the baccarat players with an absolute over-the-top assortment of foods.  The gift always having a value of $300.00 to the $600.00 range easily, if not greater. There also was never a required play demanded prior to the tournament itself.   

Most of the tournaments were a "Winner Take All", or if not that they were awarding the cash prizes to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winners.  Then after a while, probably the latter part of the 90's even into the early 2000s, instead of cash prizes came the awarding of promotional chips in place of the cash.  Still okay, not as good but decent.  Those promotion chips were usually lay until you lost the promo chip hands you were wagering.  Not one time use chips lke so many casinos have today.  Another change that enormously favors the casino.

IMO, this claim is right up to par with the Venetian and its Hosts/Marketing Department.  I went there many times when they first opened around 2000 up to 2005 or so.  Each time their Hosts became more and more skimpy with their comps as well as sitting down with the player after the visit and scrutinizing every aspect of his play, etc.  Compared to the other properties, a huge difference in comping RFB&I, etc.

The Overview of the Claim:

https://www.courthousenews.com/the-venetian-runs-a-crooked-game-baccarat-player-says/

The Court Filed Compliant:

http://files.courthousenews.com/2007/10/22/Markowiak.pdf

[8OR9]

How can anyone play a bac tournament with real money?    What are you thinking?

You have no control over the game as to when to quit with a profit or a loss.....you have no plan......you are betting against other players, not the casino.......it's no surprise the guy in the lawsuit lost $ 22,500

[alrelax]

I am certain it would have been tournament chips, 'No Cash Value' chips, etc.  Sentence number 17 will expose that fact.  ".........Before tournament play commences..........."

I believe the $22,500.00 referenced was the money it cost him to qualify/get the points required to be allowed to participate in the tournament.

Supposedly from my understanding he qualified with the proper points accumulated through the hours played, etc.  Then he was denied the tournament spot.

I was focusing on the article from the standpoint as to how today's Bac players allow the casinos to change all the rules into the properties favor since 2005ish.  Several casinos in the Midwest attempt to use auto shufflers with those new automatic card value readers, etc.  The players would not have it.  All the players got together and after 2 weekend of empty Bac tables, the casino removed those auto readers.  That is just one example. 

But the cash the guy lost in the referenced article, would have been the out-of-pocket money it cost him to qualify. 

[satsolido]

How can anyone play a bac tournament with real money?    What are you thinking?

You have no control over the game as to when to quit with a profit or a loss.....you have no plan......you are betting against other players, not the casino.......it's no surprise the guy in the lawsuit lost $ 22,500

exactly. same thoughts while going through the case. it's sounded like he's not planning at all. if it's plainly just him doing in the spur of the moment, then he's not thinking.