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[alrelax]

Regarding BEAT-THE-CASINO. 

I found this on our board, never saw it before. 
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"Offline jsb02009

btc lawsuit
on: March 25, 2015, 02:16:45 PM
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Hi,
New to this site.  I am looking for fellow members of btc that want to join me in taking ellis and keith smith to court for fraud.  I can't believe these scam artists have been running this scheme for so long.  My goal is to get members back their money but also prevent future people from being scammed.  If you are a btc member that has been scammed please notify me.  If we get enough people we can do a class action lawsuit.  My wife is a lawyer and I am willing to pay all legal fees."
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You know I wrote somewhere on our board here my short experience with BEAT-THE-CASINO and its owner, Keith.

It was not that long ago, possibly about a year ago???  It was about the time Vic brought BetSelection down for the first time to do some attempted modifications, etc. 

I was invited on Beat The Casino by another member of BTC and I knew the member from other boards a little bit over the past few years. 

Fact:  I went on BTC with a few copy and pastes of my own, my original posts that I just put on here within my Blog I think.  The posts were mine, not threads that were common place owned and commented on gossip, just some of my own stuff. 

Fact:  I was immediately blasted and called out for posting.  I was challenged for not properly introducing myself and merging in, I guess.  The PM's I received were explaining how the most popular, about 10 members were offended as to my openness, to the point and how I copied and pasted from BetSelection, etc. 

Fact:  I was contacted by Keith and he told me to 'cool it' and 'chill out' amongst other things.  I really only posted i think 5 posts about baccarat and they were all my own info, findings and no gossip or other people's involvement, etc.  I was continually for a couple of days blasted and blasted by several of the regular members. 

Fact:  Then I discovered a regular member with a strong voice on BTC that was a 'side kick' of sorts to a previous message board owner that was heavily involved in baccarat in Vegas among other places.  I knew him personally, we gambled together several times, I wrote on his board as well.  But that person imploded while playing baccarat for extremely large stakes and wound on in debt well over $500,000.00 with outstanding markers which were or did, turn into criminal charges within the city of Las Vegas.  But what got me, was here this regular member of BTC was boasting himself, chastising new members with long standing play history at B&M's casinos, etc., and never stepped up and admitted he was the side-kick to this other person that was highly admired, imploded, lost most everything including non casino related family business assets and all, and related. 

Fact:  I realized within a couple of days, 2?, 3?, whatever, who ran BTC, the aura, the atmosphere and all the gossip type of stuff going on.  Then I realized the sales pitches, the baccarat crawls, the videos and the conferences being sold by Keith. 

Fact:  Then I was approached and squared off on that, if I did not join up for the $150.00 and $50.00 a month, I was not serious, a fake, a phony, a lair and everything else along those lines, outright and hard. 

Fact:  I called Keith and demanded in about 4 or 5 text message and/or phone calls, that he remove/delete my posts and that would be that.  He challenged me, told me to get off his board and he took at what I said as a physical threat to himself.  He also misrepresented to the police department as to how many times I actually phoned him or texted.  I said, if push came to shove, I would obtain a certify Verizon phone transcript as to shoe my daily usage and calls. 

Fact:  Keith went to his local police department and reported me.  I received a phone call from a police officer in Keith's township in Pennsylvania.  He wanted my side of the story. He said, that I could be charged with threats, etc.  I told him I was strictly requesting and demanding my posts be removed by Keith and that was the entire scope and meaning of my communication with Keith.  The police officer told me I was not to go on to the site and if I did, I would be prosecuted and charged with criminal actions.  I laughed on the phone, I repeated what had happened and told the police officer for sake of peace and to circumvent further problems, I would not go onto that site or contact Keith.  The police officer told me worse case scenario was threats and least scenario was harassment. 

Fact:  It is my opinion that the entire site is a bad influence into the message board/forum industry and is nothing more than a private site, conducted by a person selling and promoting systems, events, and a monthly pay for site, that has a handful of people grouped together that claim huge professional success and elite status. 

Fact:  IMO and personal experience, the claims to the multi millions of dollars made by several/numerous BTC players each, is fraudulent, fictitious and unproven. 

[Garnabby]

Thanks for that.  You were over at Baccaratforums.com, very briefly, around or after the time that we were all egging on "Old SillE".  I remember the times I would sign into the old BTC under usernames like EllisLosesAndLies, around 3 am or something.  And, then, sit back and watch, for a few minutes, until someone got Aegis out of bed to take it down.  Ha, they sent me an authentic looking notice from the FBI about computer hacking crimes.  Funny stuff from funny people.  He used a lot of cult tactics to lure in the suckers.  For six months, we had forced him to take his site off line, with all the constant trolling, etc.

[Garnabby]

It's good to see ADulay and the gang mostly gone from here.  I wanted to help Victor turn this site into real powerhouse, about five years ago, before it went completely to stuff, but he was still involved with the scammers.  Ha, it's so funny that Victor is still talking "all new engine" stuff.  If he had done a hundredth of what he let on with this site, he would have made it a powerhouse all by himself.  Everyone is gone now, all the old and familiar faces.

[james]

They have got number of subscribers who are members of the Baccarat Hall of Fame. I wonder where the Baccarat Hall of Fame is located.

[alrelax]

When a bunch of members, a few to 10, stick together and endorse each other with everything said, as well as the Admin backs it all up, almost any story can be written and perpetrated.  I talk the brutal honest truth with previous trip reports, pictures and everything else.  Jealously, over zealously and plain drama is an attention getter as well as a quick way to ruin things.l

Their details and wagering protocols are sketchy as well as partially disastrous, IMO and the opinion from my decades of playing baccarat.   Thanks, Glen.

[CT70]

Glen,for your information, BTC does not sell or endorse systems. It is just a forum where players can chat about baccarat. Novices have access to professional players who enjoy helping new players. Like any business, the owner Keith is entitled to charge a fee for membership. He must be doing something right if 42% of his members are paying members.
There are several professional players there that play for a living.
I think it's time your members stop bashing BTC and call it what it really is, "a great Baccarat forum where you can learn from professional players".

[alrelax]

I have stated the facts and the facts are correct.  Keith actually attempted to have me arrested and charged with a fictitious crime.

Hey, whatever, if I survived the numerous real Asian Triads of NYC, like the Flying Dragons, The BTK (Born To Kill) and the Green Dragons among the couple of other ones of the 80's and 90's, I can survive Keith.  LOL.

But he did and I will never forget that.  I actually attempted, through invitation to be a part of BTC, but his right hand people chastised and humiliated beyond reason.  As well, there is the one well known member there that was a very prominent right hand person to another defunct website Admin and very large short term bac player in Vegas whom lived on the east coast.

The list goes on, sorry. 

[james]

Glen,for your information, BTC does not sell or endorse systems. It is just a forum where players can chat about baccarat. Novices have access to professional players who enjoy helping new players. Like any business, the owner Keith is entitled to charge a fee for membership. He must be doing something right if 42% of his members are paying members.
There are several professional players there that play for a living.
I think it's time your members stop bashing BTC and call it what it really is, "a great Baccarat forum where you can learn from professional players".

I agree that Keith is entitled to charge a fee for membership. Keith advertises his forum in "youtube". You will see in "youtube" many others advertising their products claiming they make their living playing baccarat. There are many websites selling baccarat systems.

Baccarat is a negative expectation game. Yet all the guys in the "youtube" and web sites make a comfortable living playing baccarat!                                 

[alrelax]

Yes, he us certainly allowed to charge a fee, it's a private website for membership purposes and I don't have a problem with that whatsoever. 

I do have a problem with his attitude, his personality and the professionalism of the way he conducts his business and that's personal.   I know several people that have paid numerous sums of money and every one of them say they were not giving anything of value.   

Again it's subjective to how you handle knowledge, education and information, as well as applying it.  On the other hand, I know some of the members and there's one I have extreme problem with.  His history and how they conduct themselves as well as what I stated.   What I Know is facts and I kept it the facts alone.

[Garnabby]

They have got number of subscribers who are members of the Baccarat Hall of Fame. I wonder where the Baccarat Hall of Fame is located.

Right next to the garbage can of lost hopes and dreams.

[alrelax]

How true.

[Sputnik]

Glen,for your information, BTC does not sell or endorse systems. It is just a forum where players can chat about baccarat. Novices have access to professional players who enjoy helping new players. Like any business, the owner Keith is entitled to charge a fee for membership. He must be doing something right if 42% of his members are paying members.
There are several professional players there that play for a living.
I think it's time your members stop bashing BTC and call it what it really is, "a great Baccarat forum where you can learn from professional players".

Problem is that some members have been around for several years and still can not flat betting and win that way, for example Brad.
That is 600 Euro a year community and you don't learn from others than just your common average methods.

My opinion

[alrelax]

One huge problem that so many cannot understand or grasp the atmosphere and realization on forums, boards and the internet.

Which, IMO is:

Lots of people given lots of false input into various wagering topics.  That input is vital to those that read it with researching and application intentions, that possibly will not work or cannot work the way it was presented.

There are 2 extremely different atmospheres and content being presented.

1)  Talk.  Lounges and Courtyard style.

2)  Learning.  Actual class and detailed presentations and experience conveyed.

When there are one liners that are thrown at everything to derail, disrupt, challenge and upset, it will ruin and remove a whole lot of anything that is attempted to be actually brought forward.  Bringing things forward is a super productive positive way to learn and figure things out, IMO.  But the side kicks with other members that have no intention of anything positive is the root of evil and utter disruption.

Do any of you remember before the huge internet explosion.  What double sourcing and triple sourcing was in the media as well as material being used in schools, etc.? 

My little 6 year old actually impresses me to the max at times.  He can google, watch something and become familiar with things.  Great.  But there is no depth or real understanding to most of it.  He does what so many lazy adults do.  Watches a YouTube video and then convinces himself that he learned something or knows something.  But in all actuality he does not understand it.  Therefor, he cannot benefit from it and ask the how, why, and apply it to useful or productive learning and traits.  He hopefully will soon, but adults do the same as he does because of the atmosphere and the belief in what they just read, watched, etc., is correct, accurate and of course, the truth. 

Now we have Google, which can be fake, can be a directed link to something with absolute bad intentions and so often, directed to a single sourced, by proxy written article that is next to worthless.  Why am I bringing all this up?  Because it is the norm on how the highest majority of everyone wants everything right now, instant, free, proven and guaranteed, etc. 

But, this is really a whole separate topic that should be discussed and realized by us. 

[Johno-Egalite]

Glen,for your information, BTC does not sell or endorse systems. It is just a forum where players can chat about baccarat. Novices have access to professional players who enjoy helping new players. Like any business, the owner Keith is entitled to charge a fee for membership. He must be doing something right if 42% of his members are paying members.
There are several professional players there that play for a living.
I think it's time your members stop bashing BTC and call it what it really is, "a great Baccarat forum where you can learn from professional players".

I've played this game professionally, I've financed world trips frequenting VIP rooms. Last I heard, BTC were still promoting NOR or some derivative.

Let's not mask the fact, it is still a negative expectant game, therefore some form of MM is required, there is simply no way around that.   Also any, all systems when run against a set of truth tables, resolve to 50% without exception, nothing else can possibly exist.   The only thing at can be defined is the losing pattern, for what that is worth.  All that remains, is the defining what you are prepared to lose against and money management options.

So please, do share what the 42% are paying for, what are they getting?  A chance to chat Baccarat? 

Not specifically bashing BTC, but those of us whom play Baccarat, should never pay for anything, never pay for any system, not a single one, mathematically everything resolves to a 50/50 state, it is impossible for it to be otherwise.   Don't pay for money management strategies, because they are "have been" on the web at one stage or other, including risk of ruin aimed primarily at BJ players.

[CT70]

Luigi, you are correct in that in Baccarat, the overall (PA)player advantage over millions of hands is close to 50%. I will give you that. However, with all due respect, that statistic is not valid for the shoe that?s in front of you now. The shoe in front of you is unique. You will not beat it using the historical statistics of the game.
Baccarat is all about ?determining the length of events and their frequency of occurrence, thru use of statistics?. Once you can do that WITHOUT using a progression (meaning by flat betting only) you can become a consistent winner. That takes years to accomplish. Studying thousands of screenshots etc. The dedication required is no less than what an Olympic medalist would have to go thru to win a medal. Only a hand full of people can do it and most people would put what?s required in the ?too hard? basket. Most would rather just play with an outrageous negative progression to compensate for their inferior hit rate (HR), while hoping that their wins outnumber their losses.
I know you probably think I?m full of stuff because you?ve never witnessed or met a consistent player that can do what I just said. That?s ok, I?m not offended.
All I?m saying is that it is doable. The question is how many of you will put in the hard yards to get there? How many even have the time? All the ones I know are over age 60. It seems that?s when they have the time to really study the game.