All Members Please Read !!!!!!!
Please can every BV player put some pressure on their support team to sort out why BV has stolen all my money from my account since Friday and even after they have admitted they have a technical problem still have not returned my funds........I am not the only player that has lost all their money
I posted this on the General Discussion section which some of you have read
I would really appreciate everyone's help as this is totally unacceptable behavior from a reputable online casino and together we are always stronger
Thanks in advance for any help and please share so that all BV players don't fall into this situation
Gordon >:(
I am one of the players that BV has stolen money from.
All the money that I had in my account is gone since I tried to join a Live game last Friday.
I hope BV resolves this situation very soon.
Hi Sam
Just received a couple of skype messages explaining that they will return my funds as soon as they sort out the problem.....mmmmmmm
I have just emailed another complaint to each of the dept's on their email drop down list, at least it will keep the subject fresh in their minds
Make sure you do the same and keep pestering them
Will keep everyone posted
Gordon
I've now emailed the CGCB Caracao Gaming Board which licences online companies over there and also emailed the Netherland & Antilles Government which BV say they operate under
Fingers crossed something positive happens
Gordon
Update
BV has just sent me a message on Skype saying that they should have the problem sorted today and to check back later.......fingers crossed :)
Gordon
Update
Earlier today they sent me a message on Skype and said that the problem will be sorted later and I should check back then, I checked at 22:30 and still no funds
I contacted them on Skype and was told that they had returned funds to their players.......I explained that mine are still missing and the reply was there are no managers in until tomorrow and they will contact them in the morning
What makes me so angry is that I am made to feel that I've no right to be annoyed that I have no access to my money and I should be patient (4 days is beyond patient) also after I complained yet again on Skype and demanded some compensation I was told that I've no right in making demands and I replied that obviously I should be happy that they've stolen my money
I have now been removed from their contacts list (how childish)....... how stupid of me for being annoyed my funds are missing
Gordon
Gordon and samnl,
You guys are overpanicked with a routine technical problem. There are many online casinos that pay in a fortnight after asking for withdrawals. So much hue and cry is correct if they deny paying your money to u.
Quote from: Gordonline on March 05, 2014, 12:44:04 AM
I contacted them on Skype and was told that they had returned funds to their players.......
They haven't returned funds to me yet either.
Albalaha
You haven't read the original post, this has nothing to do with a withdrawal, since Friday BV have lost all my funds due to a technical issue.....which means I have no funds to continue to play and no access to my funds if I would like to withdraw any
Do you understand now why we have some concerns as this behaviour from a reputable casino seems incredible
Gordon
Update
Just emailed all dept's (Copy Below) look forward to their reply
Please can you give me some advice as to the way forward
I need to withdraw my funds from your Casino as I would like to continue to play Roulette, but as you are having problems and will not give me a timescale I have no other option to do this
As you have admitted that my money is locked into a live game even though I never even played, I request that you credit my bank account and I will keep my account open until I'm happy that you've solved your technical issues
I'm sure you understand that your players cannot wait indefinitely to have access to their funds, and that this delay is unacceptable
If a Bank behaved in this manner it would lose all their custom overnight
Please confirm that you will be crediting my bank account by the amount of 244 Euros
If you have solved the issue by tomorrow morning then I shall be happy to continue to play on your site
Thank You
Gordon
I did make a post in betforum....but I would refrain from making any aggressive lines. Like I said over there, they have your balls in a vice. You need to creep your ar.se off to win your goal. To get your money back
Focus on that one thing at all cost.
I read your email.
Please can you give me some advice as to the way forward (good)I need to withdraw my funds from your Casino as I would like to continue to play Roulette (good), but as you are having problems and will not give me a timescale (hmmm) I have no other option to do this (yes you do....don't make threats)As you have admitted that my money is locked into a live game even though I never even played (that needs negotiating, not accusing them of lying), I request that you credit my bank account and I will keep my account open until I'm happy that you've solved your technical issues (ok)I'm sure you understand that your players cannot wait indefinitely to have access to their funds (not too bad), and that this delay is unacceptable (you are not in a position to make judgments)If a Bank behaved in this manner it would lose all their custom overnight (ouch!!!)Please confirm that you will be crediting my bank account by the amount of 244 Euros (that was an opener, not after the big ouch)If you have solved the issue by tomorrow morning then I shall be happy to continue to play on your site (they don't give a sh.t if you ever come back....its not a bargaining tool)Thank You
Gordon
Hi Turner
Thanks for your comments, I live in the real world and I know full well that I haven't a leg to stand on, possession is 9/10th's of the law
They obviously don't give a stuff that my money is locked in their system, and I could worship their despicable behaviour but that wouldn't make the slightest difference, its just a game and I have nothing to lose accept plug away and keep emailing them
I'm not the only player in this position and I'm sure that they are being hassled every minute of the day from their players, I just can't believe that they haven't sorted this issue out
I have emailed their Government, Caracaos Gaming Board, the Dutch Gaming Authority, and another player has emailed the local egaming organization, who knows it might do something
In the meantime I will have to wait and see what happens
Gordon
Gordon
I can see where you would have a case of the raw balls. However, if you press an issue too hard, you may only cause your complaint to sink to the bottom of the pile. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying that sort of thing happens.
Sam
Yep...I agree...maybe a change in the course of action should be considered.
"You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"
Old sayings have staying power for a reason...usually more than a shred of truth and practicality in them
Quote from: TwoCatSam on March 06, 2014, 04:39:19 AM
Gordon
I can see where you would have a case of the raw balls. However, if you press an issue too hard, you may only cause your complaint to sink to the bottom of the pile. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying that sort of thing happens.
Sam
In my last job we had 2 trays for rebates.
The top tray was labelled "please can I have my rebate".
The bottom tray was labelled" wheres my f**kin rebate"
They stayed in the bottom tray for days on end.
I refer to the Oklahoma University Fly Catching Experiment: "Not one fly was caught with vinegar!"
We are an inquisitive bunch......
Sam
@Turner
I always thought it so, now I know it.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on March 06, 2014, 03:21:27 PM
I refer to the Oklahoma University Fly Catching Experiment: "Not one fly was caught with vinegar!"
We are an inquisitive bunch......
Sam
@Turner
I always thought it so, now I know it.
And the US Government probably funded that experiment with a $36 million dollar grant...pure speculation mind you.
Ah, yes, but the vinegar and honey lobbies loved it!!
Update
The softly softly and being extremely polite at all times approach is working wonders.......Not
I'm now on my 17th email via the website........The concerned dept (not sure which dept) is still looking into this (it's now a week tomorrow) and they will let me know when it's sorted
I managed to get someone from support to chat with me tonight......apologise for the delay in answering your questions can I have your username.......Username given.......Give me a moment......over an hour later and after very polite messages saying that I'm still sitting beside my PC after midnight.........Nothing
I would love to be a fly on the wall in BV, there must be something going on as they've been operating for many years, we need to get someone from their support dept to email one of us privately and find out what the hell has happened, maybe they're about to go bust and if so anyone who has funds in there should get them out ASAP
Gordon
Hi Gordon,
This is disturbing. I've been playing at BV for years and haven't had any problems like this. It seems unlikely that they're about to go bust having just invested in live games, but whatever the reasons, their customer service in the matter is evidently appalling. Hope you get your money back eventually.
I'm afraid the softly softly approach doesn't get you anywhere other than ignored.
The 'honey' way simply does not work in this situation with this company. I've tried, & you will simply be ignored.
The only time you get anything in the way of information about what is happening is if you bombard the Management/Financial Team/Marketing/Support with angry emails.
I don't like doing it having been on the other end of it working in offices, but in this case there doesn't seem to be any other way to get a response or update... sad but true.
Update
#Bayes
Yes it is very disturbing I also have been a member for a good few years without any issues, I just can't understand why they can't credit my funds back into my bank account, this at present equals to theft as they are refusing legitimate access to players funds.
I eventually got a response via email and Skype as follows
As per our previous email: Dear Gordon
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
Your email has been forwarded to the department concerned.
You will be contacted as soon as possible with the outcome.
Regards,
The BetVoyager Support Team
I asked who the mysterious dept was and they said the Technical Dept, all email has to go via support, which means that when you send an internal email and you have a choice to send it to
Support
Management
Finance
Marketing
It goes to support first, so waste of time having a drop down box really,
Late last night I have contacted the local government again, at least I did receive a personal email from their Public Relations team advising to contact the Dutch Gaming Authority which I did but not had an acknowledgement yet
I have explained that the issue is still ongoing and asked for some more advice or an alternative local route to pursue
I ask that any member who has been affected by this to contact
http://www.government.nl/contact/contact-form
The more emails they receive the better
Keep you posted
Gordon
Update
The plot thickens
Here is the latest problem which makes me even more angry......I've just logged onto their live site and all 6 Roulette games are working fine, so they have sorted the technical issue with the site but surprise surprise my money is not attached to any of the games[/size]Where is it now I wonder......I've just sent an email explaining the above and requesting where my funds are now Looking forward to how they're going to answer this one, although that's only if they do replyKeep you posted Gordon
Update
No reply to my last email, (there's a shock) and no reply from support on Skype.....and after 4 messages to them they go offline, so that tells you that Customer Service is non existent
They've sorted the live casino problem and stolen all funds that were lost in the system
Unbelievable that they can do this, hopefully when the government get back to me I will have to report this as a crime
At least being polite is working wonders with them >:(
Gordon
Been watching this thread, as you do, I wonder if BV are only the middle man with the live feed company, just a thought, I may be totally wrong of course. Where does their feed come from?
Hi Superman
The feed as far as I can tell is from Latvia, looks the same as 888.com when I use to play there
Unfortunately this has nothing to do with BV's problem, They said they had a problem with the live site and my money was safe. The live site is working and I've not had my money returned
They don't even reply anymore, even on Skype, plain rude, I don't even think that the management know anything about it because all emails are filtered by support
I hate to say it but they're nothing but criminals who can legally steal money from their players and couldn't care less what you think, 9 days without access to my funds is disgusting
I Will keep up my fight and keep everyone informed
Gordon
Gordonline,
You need to post your problems on the Wizardofvegas.com
The Wizard's forum has some weight in the gaming world and is referenced by some in the industry.
-Xander
Hi Xander
Thanks for that info :thumbsup:
Below is the latest info
Finally had a chat on Skype would you believe, and she gave me her name (Tina)
She agreed that this has not been handled very well and the tech dept has got the live site running but Real & Play money are not available, they are hoping to have it fixed in 24 hours
She also said that she'll pass on my concerns to the management team in the morning and contact me when it's sorted
This was the first time I had a pleasant chat with anyone on support and the first time someone identified themselves, who knows it might eventually get sorted or they are still fobbing us off
Whatever happens and even if I do get my money back they need to be grovelling for continued custom or give everyone some compensation
Keep you all posted
Gordon
Yes, they should throw all of you guys 100 skins.
Money has now been re-credited with a bit of compensation.
Hope Gordon/SamNL are in the same boat?
Hi Monaco & All
Update
At last some good news........My money has been returned this morning and I've received the 1st email from the Management apologizing and giving a measly 10 Euros in compensation ???
I have replied and asked if they feel that 1 Euro for each day's delay is appropriate, also have given them some advice on dealing with such a serious issue
Anyway at least I've got my money back which is the main thing and this thread can finally sink off page 1 ;D
.... i hope this is an learning lesson for anyone wanting to play online.... at least you got your money back Gordon :thumbsup:
Carlitos 8)
Hi Carlitos
Unfortunately some of us are too far away from a B&M casino, It would be a 3 and half hour minimum round trip for me to play at one
We are at the mercy of the online casinos hence why we should only play at trusted ones lol, the benefit of BV is their RNG is the fairest one I know
Gordon
But why an RNG?
I believe that you'd have the best chance of winning if you were to play on a live game.
I wouldn't trust the software being used to run an RNG -and for some very good reasons as documented by Dr. Elliot Jacobson.
Why not play the live games at Fairway casino or any of the William Hill casinos?
-Xander
Yeah, if your country allows you to play for REAL money via RNG, why not play at DublinBet?
RNG? :nope:
Ken
Gawd....Im as sick of saying this as you are probably hearing me say it
Online casino RNG is is a black box system. Its closed.
There is no knowing what's in the black box so there is no way of knowing how the output is generated.
Why in Gods name would anyone wager their hard earned money on a number generator that they have absolutely no clue how its output is generated.
On a real wheel, its an open system. You can see how the number is generated. You can watch the marque populate with the roll of an adjudicator.
it's a no-brainer people.
Oh No I've lit the blue touch paper......RNG v Live :forbidden:
I never thought I'd play longterm on RNG but at least the RNG on BV using the SHA 256 Algorithmn is as fair as one can get, also my analysis of Live/Airball/RNG shows no difference and I can play much faster
Don't get me wrong, I prefer the live wheel any day of the week, I wagered £20,000 on Smartlive if you remember so that I could keep their £300 Free money, but I also like the 1c minimum on BV and the speed
BTW, I received a message from the BV management saying that they only get involved if there is a serious issue.......God knows what they call a serious issue then :)
[/size]Gordon[size=78%][/size][size=78%] [/size]
Glad to hear you all got your funds back. :thumbsup:
Regarding RNG vs Live, I agree with Turner in that RNG is a 'black box', but in the case of BV it doesn't matter because you have a cast-iron guarantee that they haven't changed the outcome after you've bet (which actually is not something you can count on on a live wheel, so +1 for RNG in that regard).
I can certainly see Xander's point of view on this because he's a AP'er, but what I don't get is why the system players also trash RNG's. If you're going to take the non 'black box' elements into account like dealer change, ball size, wheel speed etc and correlate them with outcomes so as to inform your bet selection, that's all well and good and it's meaningful. But if you're playing a martingale on red or any other "system" which doesn't take into account any variables other than past spins, then what's wrong with playing an RNG? To ignore all the factors which actually distinguish RNG from live wheel, but then shout "hurray for live wheel!" and "boo to RNG!" doesn't make a lot of sense.
that's an long drive indeed, and back also......
Carlitos 8)
Give me the choice of RNG or nothing.....I would choose not to play.
Ken
Quote from: Mr J on March 11, 2014, 03:31:16 PM
Give me the choice of RNG or nothing.....I would choose not to play.
Ken
100% agree with no caveat :thumbsup:
Quote from: Mr J on March 11, 2014, 03:31:16 PM
Give me the choice of RNG or nothing.....I would choose not to play.
Ken
Even if it was a guaranteed fair RNG?
Quote from: Turner on March 10, 2014, 10:25:37 PM
Why in Gods name would anyone wager their hard earned money on a number generator that they have absolutely no clue how its output is generated.
Turner,
I don't see the point of insisting that you know how numbers are generated if you don't use that information - which you don't if you're playing a non-AP method. Just because you know how numbers are generated doesn't necessarily help you to win.
The fact is, people don't trust RNGs for the simple reason that they think they might be cheated, it has nothing to do with black boxes.
Bayes...
I disagree...with respect. If I had a black box with a hole in, and someone told me to put my hand in it because it simply had a cotton wool ball inside, I wouldn't just do it no matter what guarantees they had given me. If the box was see-thru....and I could see it was just that, I would do it.
I suspect you play BV RNG and you don't want me putting doubts in your mind, in fact, you endorse BV RNG correct?
Ok...you trust a certain RNG because of a cast iron guarantee that they haven't changed any numbers . What's a cast iron guarantee? Are you there when they generate the numbers or are you just taking their cast iron guarantee as fact.
Their cast iron guarantee is an unknown to you and isn't worth the paper its written on.
All that sounds aggressive, but its just the nature of the text.
BV is a black box.
Of course, I will completely accept that BV is Kosher and take your word for it as I have great respect for what you say. But I don't see that there is anything else going on with your trust in BV than just that....trust.
Not hard facts and reasons based on your own knowledge....which is how I would expect you to normally act.....based on your analytical approach which I have become accustom to
Turner,
I'm not taking anything on trust. All of what you say would be true if it weren't for one thing-
Randomness Control: http://www.betvoyager.com/randomness/ (http://www.betvoyager.com/randomness/)
BV is the only RNG casino I play at because of this, I certainly wouldn't trust any others. Don't know why other casinos don't use it.
Bayes, my cynicism is going to start to irritate you, I am sure
I see this as marketing. Clever marketing....but just marketing. Playing on the fears of gamblers...soft soap.
Its just my way of looking at things.
Probably read and watched too much Charlie Brooker.
"Crooks in the Online Casino Industry"
Posted on January 2, 2014 | 8 Comments -Written by Dr. Elliot Jacobson.
"In January, 2012, I was hired by an online casino to audit the online casino software company that provided their software. This casino wanted to get a Certified Fair Gambling seal. I began the audit in late March, 2012. The software company had previously obtained a TST certification for their RNG, which was sent to me together with other documentation, log files and code slices. TST wrote, in part:
"TST has verified, through mathematical and statistical analysis, within a 95.0% confidence interval, that the RNG outcomes exhibit sufficient non-predictability, fair distribution and lack of bias to particular outcomes.
TST's evaluation was limited to outcome-based testing in the laboratory environment, and was performed using a test version of the RNG. TST's evaluation was based on specific information and materials to be outlined within the forthcoming Final Report (including, but not necessarily limited to, source code, software, hardware, configurations, documentation and general correspondence), as submitted to TST throughout the duration of the evaluation."
What does TST certification really mean?
As I audited the log files from the casino, everything came back normal for Keno and Blackjack. I noted that this company's shuffle was non-standard and needed some repair. I also indicated to them that their data format was substandard. When it came to auditing craps, that's when things started to go wrong. The following are my notes as I audited craps:
Craps (log files received 03/24/2012)
◾RTP = 97.62%. Not clear if I computed it correctly.
◾Audit dice #1 (5 DOF, p-Value 0.10373)
◾Audit dice #2 (5 DOF, p-Value 0.32725)
◾Audit dice total (11 DOF, p-Value 0.33259)
◾Dice total correlation tests (11 DOF, p-Values inconsistent). 7 values under 0.05.
◾Dice total correlation tests other direction (11 DOF, p-Values also inconsistent) 6 values under 0.05.
◾Dice correlation for single dice (dice 1 test) for dice value 4 gives (5 DOF, p-value = 0.000035993). That's 35-in-100000. Other values are ok. (5 DOF, p-Values are inconsistent).
◾Dice correlation for single dice (dice 2 test) for dice value 2 gives (5 DOF, p-value = 0.0056).
◾REQUESTED – code that shows how dice values are being generated.
As you see, I was not happy with the results from the correlation tests. One type of correlation test considers the value of one dice if the value of the other dice is fixed. Another form of correlation test considers consecutive rolls. I wanted more details.
I contacted the software company and was sent a code slice that showed how the RNG was used to produce dice rolls. It was clear that the code was incomplete. As I was making additional requests, I received an e-mail from the lead programmer for the company asking if I had a few minutes to talk by phone. What happened next was truly remarkable. I spoke with the coder who confessed everything to me. Here are the notes I took during that call:
CFG_Audit_Rogue_01
Hopefully you get the general idea. The next day, I spoke with the owner of the software company on the phone. Here are my notes from this call:
CFG_Audit_Rogue_03
Later, I got this email, denying the confession:
CFG_Audit_Rogue_02
The owner had culled data from customers who played the version when it was not in "rogue-mode" and wanted me to look at that data and give craps a "pass." The owner wanted me to ignore the phone call from the software developer. The owner apologized for the bad data that had accidentally been sent to me. The owner expected me to go back, look at new clean logs, and continue as if nothing bad had happened.
I spoke with the programmer and owner several more times by phone. The programmer told me that he had asked the owner to stop lying to me. The programmer told me that the owner indicated that the lies would continue in order to protect the company in question.
I spoke with the owner of the software company again on April 13, 2012. The owner indicated that the software company still wanted CFG certification. The owner said that they had paid 50% in advance for it and expected to be certified. I told them no. No certification. No money back.
Later, I got a letter from someone involved who wanted the audit to continue in the face of everything that had come to pass:
"In case you're wondering why I am still going after this so hard, I really don't want this cheat and liar to get away with it. XXX is a horrible human being and doesn't deserve to be rewarded for their dishonesty. "
In the end I concluded that the casino was totally surprised and caught off guard. They did not know the software was rogue or had a cheat mode. In my opinion, the software company accidentally left a cheat option in place on a piece of craps code that was deployed to the online casino. The casino wanted the CFG seal and expected to get it. Needless to say, they no longer use this casino software.
It is simply not the case that every casino software company produces software that is capable of cheating. I know many companies with integrity. I know many companies that are not crooked. There are good guys out there. Hopefully this account shows just how tough it can get as a game fairness auditor. Protecting the good guys means dealing with the bad guys.
This software company continues to have its product in dozens of online casinos worldwide. I am not sure how many of those casinos use its "cheat mode" or are even aware such a mode exists. I am not free to disclose the name of this casino or software company; both were clients and are protected by confidentiality.
I stand by the CFG seal and the casinos and software companies it represents. I'm also relieved to be done with the industry as a game fairness auditor.
[added 1.10.2014]
There has been quite a bit of discussion on some gambling message boards about why I am not willing to disclose this software provider. I was hired by a casino to audit their software provider so that the casino could post the CFG seal. This relationship was not a public audit and was never intended to be public.
I was not hired by a government agency to conduct a public audit. I was not hired by some third-party to publicly investigate a suspected rogue software product. I was hired as a private business by a private business to audit another private business. CFG is not affiliated with any jurisdiction or regulatory agency and has no public disclosure obligation. This relationship and all findings were and are confidential. The only public information would have been permission to use the CFG seal, if it was awarded. It wasn't. My recourse under the terms of the contract did not provide for a public remedy.
As far as the number of casinos that run this software, I did a quick Google search and found 14 casinos. I am not sure of the exact number of casinos that currently use this software.
One of the greatest sources of security and safety are the players themselves. Every instance I know of a casino software company having their products exposed as rogue in the last few years has been initiated from a player complaint. Complaints by players may be taken lightly by the gaming community without significant evidence to back up their claims. Players who suspect rogue behavior need to keep careful records and be prepared to take proactive steps to back up their case. It is important that players continue to bring their issues forward through established portals, like Casinomeister, thePogg and Wizardofvegas.
No audit is perfect. No audit can be guaranteed to catch malfeasance. But, a rigorous fairness audit is better than no audit at all. It is important that players only choose eCogra, TST and CFG certified casinos. CFG certification, in particular, focuses purely on game fairness. These certifications may not be perfect, but a casino software product that fails to have any of these should be played with caution." -Dr. Elliot Jacobson
It continues at http://apheat.net/2014/01/02/crooks-in-the-online-casino-industry/
-------------------------------
In short, some online casinos have some cheating code within various gaming software RNG that's designed to cheat you in order to ensure that the casino shows a profit each month.
If you don't believe me, then please take the time to read and research the link that I've provided above.
-Xander
Years ago at my casino here, we did not yet have roulette. The closest drive was just under two hours to the next casino. I went there 2-3 times per week, a four hour drive per visit. Keep in mind, this was BEFORE the laws were changed.....at that time, we could bet on-line and I still chose to make the drive.
Great question for you on-line guys >> why would you choose RNG over DublinBet, I don't get it?
Ken
Live is THE only way! plus you get to watch your cash grow!
Quote from: Mr J on March 12, 2014, 05:09:57 AM
Years ago at my casino here, we did not yet have roulette. The closest drive was just under two hours to the next casino. I went there 2-3 times per week, a four hour drive per visit. Keep in mind, this was BEFORE the laws were changed.....at that time, we could bet on-line and I still chose to make the drive.
Great question for you on-line guys >> why would you choose RNG over DublinBet, I don't get it?
Ken
--If you think DB is different,then you wrong.At least I experienced negative adventure.....played for almost
a month,gradually rised my BR 7800 in plus....then one morning couldn't log in,next day and so for about 10
days......somehow one day succeeded,after trillions trys,withdraw my money.....and today can hardly log in
on DB........in other words they just don't let you play when you continously taking em on daily basis.
Quote from: Turner on March 11, 2014, 10:29:19 PM
I see this as marketing. Clever marketing....but just marketing. Playing on the fears of gamblers...soft soap.
Turner, that's ok, I'm cynical too. But with respect, I don't think you've understood how the hash function works. You probably just glanced over the page and thought to yourself "oh, they're trying to blind me with science - it's a marketing tactic". But it's not the case. The key point to understand is that the number(s) are generated BEFORE you place a bet, not after.
This is how crooked RNG's work; you place your bet, then the software generates a number which makes you lose. Note the order - it has to know
first where your bet is before it can make you lose. But in the BV system, the spin is generated before you bet (though obviously not shown to you!), then a hash is taken of the spin and displayed. Next, you place a bet, and BV displays the spin (which was actually generated before you placed your bet), then you have the option to check whether the hash which was generated really does correspond to the spin which was given to you. If it doesn't, it means that the spin was changed after you placed a bet - see how it works? I posted about this a couple of years ago on rouletteforum.cc -
http://www.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=4030.0 (http://www.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=4030.0)
Note that the hash algorithm is in the public domain so nothing is hidden from you. I think some people have a problem getting their head around how this works, so they just dismiss it.
Bayes...
Ok..and if I pursue this further.....I have left my remit of proof and have entered the insane world of conspiracy theory...which I am fully aware of.
Not going there.
I accept what you say. After all...I trust random.org