Quote from: AsymBacGuy on September 26, 2015, 12:21:00 AM
Glad to give you my answers.

1) An asymmetrical hand is any hand whenever Banker has a choice to decide what to do (stand or draw) after a third card has been dealt to the Player.

I really don't get my head around that statement, the Banker really doesn't have any choice, the rules are fixed.  Also the way you explain it, it is basically any non-natural banker hand.

Because every banker hand will either stand or draw after a third card to the Player, so are you saying, "Player draws a third card, Banker either stands or draws", that is an asymmetrical hand??

If yes, then it is IMO simply a label for a non-natural score.  Where does this 15.7% mathematical edge come from?  A friend of mine claims, that when the Players increases after the third card, it is more likely to win, even though the Banker still has a third card to come.  Also it is fine laying out in the retrospective, no casino lets players bet after any card is drawn that I know of, other than Baccarat 7 up in Singapore. 

As far as I'm concerned if you have a bet on the Player and while the third Banker card is being dealt and squeezed, you shouldn't expect to win unless the Player total is 7 or more, having said that, I have won P bets 1 - Baccarat, all of which tells me nothing before the event.

okay, but really what is the point with everything you "sayed" for last 2 years, don't you fink people are feup with your hints?  Hint this and clue dat, are we children to be treated like your play thing, or do you just like to tease, is this what gets you off? 

Why aren't you in a casino 24/7 waiting for those golden triggers making more monies than y will ever need and giving it to the poors.  Game players are just as bad as system sellers, an unfortunate blip on the gambling community, maybe you are trying to collate an audience for a seminar, who knows.  You know your sh1t, butthe figures you post heps nobody. 

Many lines of emptiness follows;






















Just like your posts.....

Yeah your right, I've never had a bet on the Player side and watched it decrease on the third card, it's never happened, nor does it happen much when I bet player which is on a 7 or even an 8, and only ONE CARD can stop me getting paid, the other guy is squeezing like crazy only to reveal a 1 in 13 shot, I also never play for real.
[smiley]monkey/crazy-monkey-emoticon-049.gif[/smiley]

Three questions;

1) Define what an asymmetrical hand is?

2) do we need to keep a track (count) of how many times the Player side took a third card for any given shoe?

3) why do you need to press the enter key so many times, before hitting the post button, creating a lot of empty space on all your posts?

QuoteObviously, per every single shoe this ratio almost never will fit this ratio, as any card distribution will produce countless combinations.

Yeah, more possible combinations than stars in the universe, apparently.

Quote from: tdx on September 25, 2015, 11:12:59 PM
Some  more facts ;

1. Look at any old shoe you have and up all the hands with runs of 3 or less.....most shoes will have runs of 3 or less between 65% and 90 % of the total hands in the shoe.

For example:  PBPBPB
                     P  P B B
                     p     B
                     p     B

There are 14 hands and only 2 hands below than the " 3" line.

% of hands above the 3 line = 12/14 = about 85 %

Please, already mathematically shown (and well known I might add) that the streaks less than 4 make up 87.5% of all results.
The bet selection OLD has been flogged to death for the last 20+ years,

Quote
Example,  Player has a 2 and a 1 total of 3.

Banker has 2 aces for total of 2. Player will win the hand between 65 % and 100 % of the time since Player is ahead 3 to 2.

Nonsense, two cards drawn for Player which is on 5, has an expectation of 30% of winning the hand,  the Player doesn't have a positive expectation unless it is on a 7 or more, all this information is available on the Wizard of Odds website.

Also all this information is useless, because as far as I know, nobody is able to act after any cards are pulled, when you bet, you bet blind. 

A load of table superstitious claptrap; here is the real deal >>  http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/appendix/3/
 

Quote from: AsymBacGuy on September 25, 2015, 09:55:24 PM
Probably Al played this game longer than half of this site members put together (not saying he's old) and he's strongly convinced the game is perfectly unbeatable, so in his opinion the efforts oriented to study some solutions were, are and will be a total waste of time. And this VL topic is just an example of that.

And?  A lot depends on how bright the individual is, I know people who have played for close on 20 years, the same way now as back then, stuck in their own mold, unable to think outside the box, they didn't win back then and nothing has changed now.

Quote from: AsymBacGuy on September 25, 2015, 09:55:24 PM
Anyone could set up a "basic" play just to give the casinos the illusion of action they aim for, then trying to stab them with very huge and rare bets whom they could do nothing other than hoping for a 50/50 favourable house outcome. 

Yawn whatever, is this another p1ssing in the wind contest, mine is bigger than yours?  I think we have all come to realize that on the internet, we can say what we like and pretend to be anybody, it's our big chance to be a 'virtual Walter Mitty', "oh look at me".  What you sayed is utterly meaningless and irrelevant unless you provide detail, but keep living the dream, that's why gambling forums exist.

At least some come right out with it, a right pain in the butt those that try and build an audience for 3~6 months, being all friendly then turn into a scorpion with a sting in the tail. Quite a few got a pass on this web-site, some of us can smell them a mile off.   

Just had a read of the thread, hilarious, one guess who that might be, with an Indian yahoo account
[smiley]giga/surpris.gif[/smiley]

Quote from: alrelax on September 25, 2015, 12:51:54 PM
When the shoe was bad, we stopped.  When the shoe was strong or had anything to following or play against we were game.  WE played the game with conviction and belief but we did not grind and grind and grind and sit inevitably waiting for one or two wagers.  If (IF) that was going on, that was over at the mini bac tables on the main floor. 

There was lots of voodoo and lots of strange beliefs, I will admit.  But no one that I knew sat there and plotted their vitual losses into some kind of positive fake gain of nothing.  What you are insinuating with the virtual loses, we accomplished with taking a break, eating dinner, going to a show, going to get a massage, switching casinos, etc.  IN other words, we didn't sit there like stuck pigs.

Jimski beat me to it.  What exactly is a bad shoe?  No such thing as a bad shoe, only the way you approached it, isn't hindsight wonderful?
A  lack of streaks could be bad for the parlaying supermen back in the day, yet a bonanza for the OLD player (not an ageism comment BTW).  Knowing when to come back, batter those streaks, that streaks were happening on some other table, in another joint and continued after you noticed em, golly jes, you fella's must have had  physic powers. 

Strange voodoo belief's!  Good to hear nothing's really changed, the good old reganomic days, when balls were big and little else mattered.  Now the former superhero's spend more time on gambling forums reminiscing than they actually do in a casino, the closest they can get to fulfilling their jollies without risking any real cash.

What you kinda skipped around, missed, failed to grasp, regarding "virtual losses", sure there is no real advantage, over any given hand, over a series of hands is highly contentious, yet there is also no disadvantage, I'll repeat that, no disadvantage.  That means, for the player staring at the score-board, or score cards, those trying to tune in to signals from part of their anatomy that rests against on the rail (whatever that is), it is all the same, equal.  But in fairness to those players blessed with godly physic skills that can sense when streaks are due, I suppose if a run continues to 8 from a prior 7, it doesn't really matter if the table high fives yet again.   Oh I long for the good old day's.  [smiley]skype/dance.gif[/smiley][smiley]skype/ninja.gif[/smiley][smiley]skype/dance.gif[/smiley]

Quote from: alrelax on September 21, 2015, 07:18:57 PM
Upset???  I was happy I found this 'virtual loss' system which will save me tens of thousands of dollars and allow my to finally wager and prevail with constant winning hands!!!!  I LOVE IT!  I am happy, upset----furthest thing from the sheer truth. [smiley]aes/joking.png[/smiley]

face it Al you have a weak ego, I've said this before but you deleted my response, do you want all to swoon that you are known in all the VIP rooms stateside?  I wasn't the only who found it unusual that a while back you posted lots of happy snaps, yet no chips, no wad in front of you, no room shots of your winnings spread on the comp'd duvet. yet pictures of everything else, posting pictures of your family minus yourself, kinda weird.... 

You post pics of your gold monkey, but no chips??  Yet remind us many times per week the worth of your salvage business,  we've all been there pal, we don't have to keep reminding all and sundry like we need our ego to be massaged, I'm sure the VIP hosts will do that, don't expect too much of that here.  For somebody who keeps banging on about VIP service I think your donation to this board was on the low side, why even bother, far less than the cost of one of your comp'd dinners, but to each his own.  Also for such a busy person doing his best to clean up the traffic mess & keeping the roads open you seem to spend an awful amount of time on gambling forums.  We could equally take the p1ss out of your monkey strategy.  What you, I or anybody else does is all the same, no advantage, no disadvantage.

This brings me back to any virtual loss strategy, as I said, the merits are debatable, certainly the way I play it (can't comment 'bout gr8, cos that's a mystery he enjoys), debatable because after any wait/trigger, the next hand remains 50-50, so while it may appear smart based on stats, after you try it and still lose, you are left wondering.  However it gives the player a methodology, a reason to bet or not to bet, which isn't a bad thing, while not necessarily guaranteeing a positive outcome.  .

   

I was waiting for gr8 to offer his reasoning behind "virtual losses" or stats, but I reckon he hasn't rationalized it out like I do, or just being evasive,  also who am I to defend the what the great 'gr8' posts, much more entertaining to see him fall into the holes that he digs for himself.

Anyway regarding this wait for virtual losses type of strategy, seeing I have also used this approach, I see nothing wrong with it and am open to any suggestion it could be construed as gamblers fallacy, I will explain why.

Firstly, mindset; your mindset needs to be geared to "avoiding defeat rather than maximising profit", which is the case for me.  IMO it is worst to go home broke than making a bucket load of money, therefore are willing to sacrifice wins for avoiding losses.   

Now the to strategy itself, irrespective of the bet selection, if you have ever spent endless hours testing 100's of shoes, you will know, 2L, 3L and 4LIAR are pretty common, 7L & 8L (even 12LIAR and beyond) less so.

Through the process of testing, if we are to expect many occurrences of small losses they are losses which our staking plan has to handle, so we eliminate those would be losses from our staking plan by simply waiting for them to happen prior to betting, obviously hoping that when we do make a move, it is not one of those rare events of 12LIAR, however our staking plan and overall strategy should be easier to handle 8LIAR (waiting for 4LIAR) than 12LIAR, plus common sense should kick in and we stop after X losses.

Some shoes will not present many betting opportunities, that is the nature of beast and it comes back to the the players discipline and what they want out of the game (mindset).  For certain strategies they may continue to lose after virtual losses, but all losing patterns can be defined in advance, therefore you could also consider some sort of switch given certain traits of a portion of any shoe.   An example could be as simple as switching to FLD given certain triggers, there are literally many ways to implement and view it all, from waiting for FLD or DBL to lose X amount of times now bet against it continuance for a fixed series of bets, or my own template approaches. 

Yes it takes a hell of a lot of patience and discipline to implement and can result in a very boring game, but that said there are ways around that also via dual progressions.  To recap test your own preferred bet options, how many times did it go beyond 8LIAR when tested against say 300 shoes, v's how many times did it lose 4 times in a row?  The greater number of 4LIAR is something you have to handle at the tables, you can see what I'm getting at here.  Also I never doubted gr8's ability or intention to explain the concept properly, as either I or he sees it, nor did I necessarily disagreed with the OP either. 

Merits of such styles of play are highly debatable and exist in the eyes of the beholder, an alternative is simply don't wait for virtual losses and design a MM approach that can hopefully handle possible frequent 4LIAR's which is not IMO impossible, but more stressful.           

It's all 50-50 mate.  The more shoes you test against with whatever you are doing, the closer you will end up at 50-50 minus the commission.

You can test against 10 ~ 20 shoes and get a 60% average strike rate, then the next 20 shoes average 45%, the odd shoe 40% which would be painful to play, then 100, 1000 or 10M shoes and I can tell you your average, it is the exact same as the mathematical possibilities 50%.  The only possible way to get head and stay ahead flat betting is via Parlay's and half parlays, two of my friends play that way and it hasn't worked for them.

Quote from: gr8player on September 14, 2015, 07:55:57 PM
Where did you get this obviously uncontrollable urge to denigrate and demean anything and everything that I post in this forum?   How selfish must you be not to care.

You short memory when it suits you.  You have denigrated my style of play for years with your snide comments here and there, well now you have my attention and you whing about it, yeah typical. 

Quote from: gr8player on September 14, 2015, 07:55:57 PMThere actually are members that enjoy reading me, and actually gain alot of insight about how to approach and play this game from reading my posts.  Some, believe it or not, have improved their results at the tables by incorporating some of my theories/methodologies into their own games. 

Ha don't make me laugh we are all friends here are we not (LOL)?  It's not about helping anybody, other than you feeding YOUR URGE.  What do you actually post that you haven't regurgitated over the last 10 years?  Same old wishy washy lack no substance hot air waffle.  If you wanted to assist anybody, just one person, for one in the last 10 years you would post a shoe and explain how and why you bet, but you won't because you don't want to embarrass yourself, you don't want it to be known behind the hot air, there exists only a vacuum.   

You're too far gone, I meet people like you all the time in casinos, normal friendly people, but once the topic turns to gambling and bet selection in particular, then the insanity becomes prevalent.  Nobody could really lambaste how you play, because in the last decade you have never revealed anything other than handing over a very substantial 6 figure amount of coin to  the casinos.

   

Quote from: gr8player on September 14, 2015, 12:56:12 PM
One needs only to know what to look for, and be patient a

In which case, what you look for could be defined, you could define many "what to look for triggers".  Then apply conditional statements, such as if this happens (you lose), then you do this (fold yer arms). 

What you end up with is repeatable and predictable behavior, er some might call it MECHANICAL[smiley]cps/noway.gif[/smiley]
Of course you could share with all your friends, what it is you look for, but never have and never will, I can only speculate why [smiley]toto/d200712191811061584.gif[/smiley]

Quote from: gr8player on September 12, 2015, 08:44:26 PMI feel that the more virtual losses that mount up, the stronger my plays will appear when they do.

  Nope not really, the cards know nothing about prior hands, patterns, trends, you are "Anthropomorphizing the game" but too committed, emotional wrapped up to realize.

Quote from: gr8player on September 12, 2015, 08:44:26 PM
Now, so that no one gets the wrong idea here, this is not an exact science.  In fact, rather far from it.  I am guaranteed nothing even when I do decide to pony up my bets.  I could be, and have been, wrong about the shoe now dispensing the decisions that I've been awaiting.  But, that said, it most surely is a viable and workable approach.  Why?  Because I can't be wrong forever, especially when already witnessing quite a few virtual losses passing me by.

Too bad when the virtual losses are virtual winners, and then when you do bet, you hit more losses.  So you bet even more shallow, without realizing every hand is still 50-50, but you can't keep shallow betting forever.

Quote from: gr8player on September 12, 2015, 08:44:26 PM
And I'll tell you why I can't be wrong forever:  Statistics.  I play a tight game, and my game (my preferred bet selection process) is geared toward, shall I say, the "majority" of results, statistically-speaking.  I trust you can understand and grasp what I am trying to convey here.  Certain statistics are undeniable, and that all translates to certain results that are similarly undeniable.

Nope, it appears to me that you are trying to convince yourself more than anybody here, no substance, the reader is left guessing what you are getting at.   

I like to think I'm intelligent enough to recognize  certain traits, it can be useful to step back and listen to your own beliefs, analyse your beliefs as a third person would, then ask yourself why?  Why do some seek, need, are so desperate for acknowledgement from others, once you do that, you hopefully can become normal like the majority.

Quote from: NoRegret on September 12, 2015, 04:06:40 PM
The lady at the other cage asked me for ID and told me I cashed 1.2K at anther cage earlier. 

If that happens again, just say, "I decided to play some more, is that ok".  Or throw in the usual comment "money back".