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I spent 20 years researching the best way to win at baccarat. I finally nailed it and put my finding in 2 books, first and second editions. The latest book (second edition) has been in the top 7 best seller rank on amazon and  often at number #1 spot. Have received Facebook messages from all over the world thanking me for the strategy. I wrote second edition to strengthen the first edition strategy, it's the same strategy though has the Bullet Proof element to it. 

I'm writing edition THREE which explains the holy grail bet of all bets you should play at baccarat, the key bets, out of 10,000 attempts over many shoes the result is 74% wins v 26% losses. Therefore not only has the house edge been overturned in the gamblers favor, my third edition absolutely smashes the casinos. I'm based in the UK and betting £200 each time, I walk away with £800 every night I play. I'm not even sure I want to release the info to be honest. On the other hand the casinos can't change the rules so as to stop gamblers from winning, therefore I will be publishing in July. I promise you the NEW INFO will blow your mind.
[attachimg=1]

In my third book: I will be explaining the new info, my edge is as follows,

74 - 26 =48 divide by 26 = 1.84615384615

Therefore in short, I have 1.8 + chance of winning than not winning! in my third book I not only explain my NEW system BUT I show you HOW to play it!  AND in a whole shoe of approx 60 results I only bet max on 10 occasions, AND as I explain in my second edition I never ever double up or down! If you do you'll lose in the end.

Great and congratulations!

Reviews from second edition: Also don't judge until you have read! FIVE STARS book is selling every day! At least I do actually share my strategy unlike others who just talk about a secret one! or ones! First edition was somewhat weak, second edition however is BULLET PROOF! see for yourself before judging unless it is all you can do.

Top Customer Reviews
5.0 out of 5 starsTotally recommended!
ByIvana Rodríguezon May 14, 2017
Format: Paperback
The bullet-proof aspect of this second edition makes this baccarat book one of the strongest baccarat winning strategies I've ever read. After years of trying and following advises of other books this is the one that has helped me to finally start winning. I've played many shoes and noted the shoe results and I saw that the system in this book works. I played with real money and am now making steady gains. So glad I managed to find a book on baccarat that actually showed me how to win without any doubling ups or doubling downs on bets unlike other books advise.

5.0 out of 5 starsGame Changer!
ByAmazon Customeron May 15, 2017
Format: Paperback
I was given a gift, this Tabone's book, The Ultimate-Bullet proof Baccarat Winning Strategy. It has been the best gift I've ever received. After reading it, I changed the way I play. In terms of profit, I'm way up. I'm making good money following this system. Good thing about it you don't have to play every hand. It's a really intelligent structured way of playing. Casinos should be worried.

I did not judge anything, I said great and congratulations.  If you like, I can remove that part?  You didn't even say thanks.  Oh well. 

You are coming on here to promote your book you are making a profit off of.  You should IMO, support this website with Vic, many of us have donated money to him to keep this place going.  You are here for commercial reasons, please support our website and donate at least $100.00 to Vic, many of us have giving $50.00 or so without commercial reasons.  It is only fair and just and shows your good faith to support the site that has the potential to make you money. 

As far as books, I have read many, not all.  I know the triggers, the systems, the tricks and profitable agendas to baccarat.  I have gambled for years, about 37 years or so that is.  At every baccarat and high limit room in Atlantic City, at Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun in CT and Seminole in Florida.  At no less than 25 casino properties in the Midwest as well as Pala, Pechanga, Morongo and Agua Caliente in Southern California.  In Vegas the Mirage, Treasure Island, The Bellagio, Planet Hollywood and before that it at The Aladdin.  At the Wynn and before that at The Desert Inn.  Palace Station, Gold Coast and The Rio.  At Caesar's Palace, MGM, and the Tropicana.  M Bay and others.  Bottom line, a few of us non-published people, might know a few things about baccarat as well. 

I just joined today! No doubt I will support Vic for sure, give me a chance I've hardly got through the door!

I don't write gaming books explaining how to play i.e how the game works, I explain how to win. AND I hope and want people to win. Im not here to promote my book per say it sells itself, I'm here to discuss other people's strategies. I want to be honest after 20 years I know what works and what does not work.

I didn't write that I didn't like your "starting" compliment, however following your compliment you went on to insult my work based solely on a review of my first edition book, a review by the way written by someone who didn't even read the book! read the review again!

I don't even need to read this to know it's full of s***. If you believe what's in here, you deserve to have your money taken from the publisher and casinos."

reviewers states he "didn't even read the book"...

I rest my case.

You have written so many interesting articles on your blog I'm reading

Here are a couple of questions:

1. I was in England for a few years so I'm a little with the casinos there...at which casinos do you play ?

2. I think you said to quit for the day if you are winning 3 units.....so let's say you go to the casino on Monday at 1:00 PM  and win 3 units after you play two shoes and you go home.......however the casino keeps on dealing shoes after you go home ( and in the states here, they never close ) so when Tuesday comes, you go back to the casino to play....but the casino has been dealing 30 or 40 shoes when you were home sleeping.....so if the cards are randomly shuffled, it does not make a difference if you stayed at the casino Monday and kept playing or if you started a new day on Tuesday.......because there is no such thing as a "day" in the casino business and the shoe will be a random shoe on Tuesday morning or if you stayed and kept playing Monday after you won 3 units.

In simple terms, if you have an advantage in baccarat you should keep on playing forever unless one of 6 things happen :

1. You get bored
2. You get tired and have to go to sleep
3. You have to get something to eat
4. You have to go to the loo ( bathroom)
5. You have personal or work obligations to attend to...and if you are making that much  money at bac, you won't have to work.
6. You die

Any comments ?

I wish you luck with your commercial endeavors.

Quote from: 8OR9 on June 09, 2017, 11:59:19 AM
Here are a couple of questions:

1. I was in England for a few years so I'm a little with the casinos there...at which casinos do you play ?

2. I think you said to quit for the day if you are winning 3 units.....so let's say you go to the casino on Monday at 1:00 PM  and win 3 units after you play two shoes and you go home.......however the casino keeps on dealing shoes after you go home ( and in the states here, they never close ) so when Tuesday comes, you go back to the casino to play....but the casino has been dealing 30 or 40 shoes when you were home sleeping.....so if the cards are randomly shuffled, it does not make a difference if you stayed at the casino Monday and kept playing or if you started a new day on Tuesday.......because there is no such thing as a "day" in the casino business and the shoe will be a random shoe on Tuesday morning or if you stayed and kept playing Monday after you won 3 units.

In simple terms, if you have an advantage in baccarat you should keep on playing forever unless one of 6 things happen :

1. You get bored
2. You get tired and have to go to sleep
3. You have to get something to eat
4. You have to go to the loo ( bathroom)
5. You have personal or work obligations to attend to...and if you are making that much  money at bac, you won't have to work.
6. You die

Any comments ?

Thank you for your interesting question and observations.
1. For instance, I gamble in Victoria, Aspers and many other casinos in London and the UK/EU
2. If you've read my book you would have read why I advise a gambler to STOP at 3 unit wins per day, by a day I mean a normal 12 hour cycle. Normally about half a 24hr day a person rests and the other half s/he works. However I will expand.
Yes the dealer continues dealing and many shoes pass by when you're not there, not there in ONE casino, and what about the many hundreds of casinos, you don't want to be at all of them do you? What I mean is, if you get "bored" as you write and so want to continue playing you will be making a mistake because the game of baccarat is more less a 50/50 game and there for easy to go either way i.e. you start losing or you start winning, you go behind or go in front. With my strategy you have the best possible chance on your side to go in front. Therefore as I explain in my book once you have reached your target for the day / those few hours, though you might win within 2mins even or less, you should stop. Just like a stoke market day trader does! To continue is madness, its greed and greed makes people lose their minds. They get tired, frustrated and or big headed. Then you'll start increasing your stake, or doubling up, and this I advise against book.

If someone wants to make money gambling at baccarat s/he not only needs self control, able to manage time and money but s/he needs to use common sense. Suppose you start on the first shoe, you win, you gain 3+ units, instead of walking away, have a drink, talk and lea, but stop gambling, you say to yourself, well I've won, the strategy works, hey wtf, I'll carry on, okay, okay you want to do that, you continue you continue winning but then hey what if the next show does not go your way say you lose 1- unit, now you are only 2+ units up. NOW YOU START CHASING...what is the point chasing when you had already achieved your target.

To win at baccarat you have to play the long game 3+ unit wins per day is over 1,000 units per year. How many units do you want to win? The game is tight, very tight therefore it waits to take someone's money, someone who is 1. Too brave and 2. Someone who LOVES THE CASINO TOO MUCH, I call such people GONE GAMBLERS, because they can't keep hold of the money they have won. They just have to gamble for the sake of gambling.

I do not know what kind of gambler you are but if you can't manage money, get greedy and or love the casinos too much then no matter what Strategy you play you will never win money per say because you will not know how to hold on to it. Therefore what is the point of winning in the first place, you might as well walk into the casino, walk up to the cash desk and hand over all your money as a tip! Or give it to the dealer and walk away.

If you want to win money and have that money to show as profit at the d of a week, month, year then you need to stick to some rules as I outline in my book along side using a strategy that really works. 

I hope you read my book and learn and change your ways. I hope you win money and hold on to that money. The casinos will not run away. They will be there waiting therefore don't allow the casinos to control you, don't let them call you, you go when you need to gain more units, but don't over do it.

If you have any more questions I'll try to answer.

Regards, Stephen.

Hello stephen tabone and welcome to forum.

Stephen is it really so hard to win and know the secret?
I mean any one can simulate several 100 trail session and look at peaks and drawdowns and reversals.

Reversals is when you have a negative result and get back to even or a small profit, during 100 session samples you get at average 2 reversals.
Now assume i peak 2 units with 75% of my shoes.
Then i only need to solve the average drawdown and when to let the reversal to kick in if getting a bad start at the shoe.

Now is your way in your book more complex or does it involve the same way tackle baccarat?

It would be nice if you could mention something making it worth to buy your book.
Is the secret within money managment or selection methods.

I assume all selection method is the same, so is more a question to define when you are ahead during a certain amount of played trails and quit playing.
That way you can be ahead and stay away from the sequence from hell as you would not jump on board that train.

Just opinions and would like to hear your comments.

Cheers

After reading your post I bought the book in Kindle form.  I read it in about an hour.  I like most of the premise of your system but not sure I like the risk/reward aspect.  I will not give anything away, but I am willing to try it.

Thanks,

John

Quote from: Sputnik on June 10, 2017, 02:41:27 PM
Hello stephen tabone and welcome to forum.

Stephen is it really so hard to win and know the secret?
I mean any one can simulate several 100 trail session and look at peaks and drawdowns and reversals.

Reversals is when you have a negative result and get back to even or a small profit, during 100 session samples you get at average 2 reversals.
Now assume i peak 2 units with 75% of my shoes.
Then i only need to solve the average drawdown and when to let the reversal to kick in if getting a bad start at the shoe.

Now is your way in your book more complex or does it involve the same way tackle baccarat?

It would be nice if you could mention something making it worth to buy your book.
Is the secret within money managment or selection methods.

I assume all selection method is the same, so is more a question to define when you are ahead during a certain amount of played trails and quit playing.
That way you can be ahead and stay away from the sequence from hell as you would not jump on board that train.

Just opinions and would like to hear your comments.

Cheers

The Strategy in my book, "The Ultimate Bullet Proof Baccarat Winning Strategy" that is on Amazon and is a number #1 best seller, often at #1 spot involves TWO main simple to follow rules. Apart from these two rules there is money management advice and I suggest when to get out, i.e. to stop for the day and give reasons why. I'm not claiming my strategy is ne where you can go into profit and keep on increasing that profit constantly, because as you say like with all systems they have there ups and downs. But what I am saying is that my Strategy is one of the strongest if not the strongest and most reliable strategies out there. Moreover my where my strategy differs from others is that there is no need to double up or double down unlike other system, therefore is a very tight and safe way of playing!. The Bullet Proof element of it is a limit loss / trigger acts as both. I was at a casino in London last night and won £600, I'll be going again tonight. Had a very nice dinner and fine wine in the restaurant with friends and tipped the staff, all paid for with my winnings! What more do people want. 

Quote from: bacply on June 10, 2017, 02:48:22 PM
After reading your post I bought the book in Kindle form.  I read it in about an hour.  I like most of the premise of your system but not sure I like the risk/reward aspect.  I will not give anything away, but I am willing to try it.

Thanks,

John

Well thank you for buying my book. I'm winning with it and hope you do too. Bullet Proof element acts in two parts, one and a limit loss and two as a trigger as you know. If there are any elements you do not understand please let me know. you can always email me, my email is in the book. Because the game is tight, the risk.reward has to be tight too, because the strategy is advanced in its structure, it offers the best possible way to win therefore take those winning 3 unit wins per day and build up those unit wins over the long run not doubling up or doubling down and not increasing your stake too fast.

Regards, Stephen 

Thanks for your reply stephen tabone

One last question, what size of bankroll do you recommend using your strategy is it above or below 5000 Euro ...

Cheers

Quote from: Sputnik on June 10, 2017, 04:27:05 PM
Thanks for your reply stephen tabone

One last question, what size of bankroll do you recommend using your strategy is it above or below 5000 Euro ...

Cheers

Your unit stake should be the same for many weeks before you increase. your unit stake amount is up to you but let's say you had $1,000 as a bankroll then your max unit stake should be $20 so $100 if your bankroll is $5,000 why so little? well because if you fit a few bad losses in a roll you will not lose your head. the aim is to win 3 units per day. $100 x 3 =$300 x 30 days (a month) = $9,000 therefore after a month your bankroll is now $14,000 therefore you can bet almost $300 a go. But myself, I'm on 200 per bet and have been for 3 months and feel no need to increase it. Also I don't want to draw attn and get kicked out, I don't want to be walking away with 5 or 10k a night, in most casinos you'll get banned. I blend in when its really busy and when I get my wins I'm away. I'm making bucks thus see no reason why I need to be flash and get banned. The casino will notice 30+ k going in someone a gamblers pockets in just one week, and over a year do you really think 1.5million will not get noticed as missing from their profits? Okay you could win in different casinos, as I do do, however I don't have the time to milk it proper but I really don't need the money per say. But I can understand how many others will have more time and want to be pro gamblers, well that's fine so long as they play it cool and avoid being detected. CASINOS DO NOT LIKE SYSTEM PLAYERS, MOREOVER USING A SYSTEM THAT ACTUALLY CAUSES THE GAMBLER TO WIN!

By the way to anyone who does not believe in systems, (not that all of them work) 1. we are living in a solar system, and 2. If I told you to walk into a casino and bet on player every hand, or bet on red roulette every spin and you agreed to do so, is this not a system? Not that it will work, though it might for a bit. But systems are just ways to play, like some people play certain dates, birthdays etc on roulette therefore this is a system, rules of playing. My strategy works. It works good enough for a gambler to gain 3 units over time per day.

Quote from: bacply on June 10, 2017, 02:48:22 PM
After reading your post I bought the book in Kindle form.  I read it in about an hour.  I like most of the premise of your system but not sure I like the risk/reward aspect.  I will not give anything away, but I am willing to try it.

Thanks,

John

John,

   As my wife was trying to be nice or something, she purchased the Kindle version of TUBPBWS for me as a surprise and I got notice of it this morning when I logged on to my iPad.  Oh swell.

   I've warned her about buying things I "browse" when on Amazon but evidently this had the word "baccarat" in it so she "one clicked" it away.  Said something about it costing less than a hot dog and a beer at the casino.   It is also why I have all kinds of odd gadgets for the Glocks that I'll NEVER use.  Most of that stuff gets given away to people who think they need it.

   But I digress.  It's in my possession now so I'll see what it does.   For those of you who are curious, it is very close to Ellis' System 40 but eliminates System 40's strength on runs.   

   For the near future I will now run VDW/2 and TUBPBWS in tandem when anybody posts a live shoe here on the forum and report back the results.  At least you'll have some kind of benchmark.

  Also, I haven't actually purchased a baccarat book probably since before the internet and looking that old book, it does look like it was literally typed with an old Royal Selectric typewriter and edited into a manuscript.   Having just seen what passes for an internet Kindle "book" on baccarat, I may have to start publishing.

  So, when I have ample time, I'll play all new shoes posted running both methods, just for grins.

  AD

I'd be more careful about changing the avatar Mike. :-)

as. 

.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 10, 2017, 06:00:45 PM
By the way to anyone who does not believe in systems, (not that all of them work) 1. we are living in a solar system

Don't forget the school system!!

[attachimg=1]

The guy said he has all the money he needs and he is compelled to help others. You do not have to read his material and you don't have to like it but how about letting the guy have his space and help others as he said, if they want it??  Why so derogatory? Thanks AL-RELAX

Quote from: ADulay on June 10, 2017, 08:55:47 PM


   For the near future I will now run VDW/2 and TUBPBWS in tandem when anybody posts a live shoe here on the forum and report back the results.  At least you'll have some kind of benchmark.


  AD

Are VDW/2 and TUBPBWS flat-bet systems?

Appreciate it if you could run any of these live hand shuffled and dealt shoes.  I was only +4 gross for all three combined.

Thanks.

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BTBTPBTBBTPPPPBPBPPPPBPBBPPTPBPBTPPPBPPPTBPPBPBBBBTPPPBPPBB


BBBBPBPBPTPBBBPTTPTPPBTPPPBPBBBPPBBPBBPBPPTBPPBBBPBPTBPPPP

I went over it very quickly because I'm my way out, might be a couple of mistakes here and there, will double check later, but here are the results, overall less banker tax, 9+ units up on three shoes, though it is like this 1st shoe max, 4+ units up, would have been out of the shoe 3+ 2nd and 3rd shoes were a struggle but towards the end 2+ units and 3+ units up / NP stands for NO PLAY, W stands for WAIT, should have used W, but too used of using NP, anyhow, I'll check these again later to confirm / all flat betting / 0 with a line under it stands for even, or money back, of course all less taxes when won on banker. / You can see how strong my strategy is, even on shoes 2 and 3, when they were not going my way, no more than 3- down at any one time on either shoe. This is why my strategy is the Ultimate bullet proof baccarat winning strategy. / I'm off to casino tonight for couple of hours if you have any other live casino results post them and I'll try and go over them if I have time.

Quote from: Eight Iron on June 11, 2017, 11:26:15 AM
Are VDW/2 and TUBPBWS flat-bet systems?

Appreciate it if you could run any of these live hand shuffled and dealt shoes.  I was only +4 gross for all three combined.

Thanks.

PBPBPPTPTPBPBBPBBPPPBPPPBBPBBBBPPTBPBPPBBBPBPPPPPBBTPPPTPBBPTPP


BTBTPBTBBTPPPPBPBPPPPBPBBPPTPBPBTPPPBPPPTBPPBPBBBBTPPPBPPBB


BBBBPBPBPTPBBBPTTPTPPBTPPPBPBBBPPBBPBBPBPPTBPPBBBPBPTBPPPP

Hello Stephen Tabone - you have made a nice introduction of your self and your book and got a nice review from the member Adulay (who i respect) when he compare it with Ellis S40 he and you catch my attention.
That has to do with singles at a first level of understanding, then comes the option how to tackle series of two, three and four and higher, when to enter and follow or bet against.
I like this kind of methodology very much so i decide to buy your book.

Cheers

+20 WINS for me with something I would have wagered and if I controlled myself and not wagered anything else than what I probably would have-as I marked it up, +20 hand win for me in those 3 shoes.  I have no idea how he only won the +9, but I would have prevailed with 20 wins and whatever amount of units I was wagering!

[attachimg=1]

I'll have the three shoes played later once I get back from today's match.

AD

Quote from: Sputnik on June 11, 2017, 01:46:48 PM
Hello Stephen Tabone - you have made a nice introduction of your self and your book and got a nice review from the member Adulay (who i respect) when he compare it with Ellis S40 he and you catch my attention.
That has to do with singles at a first level of understanding, then comes the option how to tackle series of two, three and four and higher, when to enter and follow or bet against.
I like this kind of methodology very much so i decide to buy your book.

Cheers

Well thanks for reading my book.
But I 'm not aware of what book is the Ellis S40 where can I read more about that?
In my next and probably the last in the series of The Ultimate Bullet Proof Baccarat Winning Strategy, I will be reveling the key and most important and profitable bets/moves a gambler can make using my strategy, this is new information and it shutters the theory that the house always wins! My third book absolutely turns the tables in favor of the gambler. The book is pure dynamite and the casinos will hate it. After that I'll be working on my roulette book and publishing my research new information no one knows, and I will show players how to win at roulette just like I have shown them how to win at baccarat. 

Quote from: ADulay on June 11, 2017, 08:42:42 PM
I'll have the three shoes played later once I get back from today's match.

AD

Playing by the rules established of +3 for the win and -6 to exit and flat betting. Here goes.

Shoe 1:  TUB +3   VDW -3
Shoe 2:  TUB -5    VDW -3
Shoe 3:  TUB -2    VDW +3


In the first shoe if TUB continues to play after winning the +3 it finishes at -3 for the entire shoe.
In the third shoe if VDW continues to play after winning the +3 it finishes at -2 for the entire shoe.

As none of those shoes had any long runs or long chops, they play out pretty neutral.

VDW looks for long runs of singles and straight side streaks.  Neither of those showed up in those shoes.

A good discussion of this "new" play would be nice but it would also be short.  The book is 38 pages long.  The information needed could be sent in a single text message.

There is a simple "fix" for the TUB play that would seriously help it out, but I'll leave that to the author of the book to include in the next iteration of the Ultimate Baccarat System.

AD

Quote from: ADulay on June 11, 2017, 10:50:55 PM
Playing by the rules established of +3 for the win and -6 to exit and flat betting. Here goes.

Shoe 1:  TUB +3   VDW -3
Shoe 2:  TUB -5    VDW -3
Shoe 3:  TUB -2    VDW +3


In the first shoe if TUB continues to play after winning the +3 it finishes at -3 for the entire shoe.
In the third shoe if VDW continues to play after winning the +3 it finishes at -2 for the entire shoe.

As none of those shoes had any long runs or long chops, they play out pretty neutral.

VDW looks for long runs of singles and straight side streaks.  Neither of those showed up in those shoes.

A good discussion of this "new" play would be nice but it would also be short.  The book is 38 pages long.  The information needed could be sent in a single text message.

There is a simple "fix" for the TUB play that would seriously help it out, but I'll leave that to the author of the book to include in the next iteration of the Ultimate Baccarat System.

AD

I'll check the results again, but I think your following of the strategy is off somewhat, 1st shoe went to 4+ wins, (yes if you were to following on keep playing I say this because you follow on on a losing shoe: though I would exit a losing shoe trying for my money back) in first four results, 2nd shoes never went more than 4- down, and that was towards the end. I always exit a shoe by half way and around level, money back, less tax if it is not going my way. I generally don't stick around to pay more tax on bank wins. I'm happy to come out 0/level. Here are the results of the times when I would play: 1- 0 (0 means level) 1+ 0 1- 0 1+ 0 1- 0 1- 0 1- 2- 1- 0 1- 2- 3- 4- 3- 2- 1- 2-3- 4-

the last 0 is result number 34, the 2nd last 0 is result number 26, by result number 26, i could tell the shoe was not going my way and would exit, getting out at 0 is a result in itself which is part of money management. Note also the strength of my strategy in that although it was generally a bad shoe for TUB I didn't lose my than 4 times in a row. Compare this to people using Martingale who get slaughtered when losing more than 5,6,7,8 etc then you can see that the TUB structure is a very safe way of playing as stated. Though I don't recommend people doubling up, if they did all the way through using TUB they would not lose at at all!

Checked over 1,000s of shoes you will gain the advantage if getting out with your money back on bad shoes, just because there is a stop loss of 6- does not mean you need take it that far, if shoe is going nowhere, and its half way through, get out breaking even less a bit of tax is a good result too.

Thanks for testing those shoes fellows.  I neglected to say I used a different strategy for those shoes where I won the four units.

The shoes yielded 3+3+3 = 9 units when I tested them using TUBS. 

Quote from: Eight Iron on June 12, 2017, 01:59:24 AM
Thanks for testing those shoes fellows.  I neglected to say I used a different strategy for those shoes where I won the four units.

The shoes yielded 3+3+3 = 9 units when I tested them using TUBS.

Well, if we can get "permission" from the author of TUBS, I'd like to post up the play from Shoe #2 which I show never goes positive after hand 14.  Obviously we're playing it differently.

AD

Quote from: ADulay on June 11, 2017, 10:50:55 PM
The book is 38 pages long.  The information needed could be sent in a single text message.

Right. And I'm wondering what the differences are between versions given in the first and second editions of the book. The first edition was a 368 pages long! So either the system has been radically simplified or there was an awful lot of padding in the first edition.

The reviews of the first edition are not so complementary. One reviewer states

QuoteGives an example of 200 real live play shoes from a Casino to prove the method, but following those shoes would have seen a loss - there are thousands of shoes available like that online and they will also show the method is flawed. Such a shame, as it isn't living up to the title or the promises made.

In the opening pages of the second edition, Stephen says "I really do not understand how on earth anyone could give my book a bad review".

Perhaps because they tested the system over the 200 shoes and found that the system didn't come up to the claims made?

Stephen makes the sweeping claim that all online casino games are fixed. Just how he comes to this conclusion I would really like to know. Does that include casinos which offer live Baccarat? Again, he says that all computer generated games are essentially worthless, implying that any tests done over such shoes will not represent a fair test of the system. Apart from the issue of how he knows this, and what the differences are between computer generated shoes and those dealt from an automatic shuffle machine in a real casino, it means that he can immediately dismiss any losses generated from such shoes. Given that most players don't have access to hundreds of real live shoe results, but will HAVE to use computer generated results, a cynic might take the view that this is rather convenient.

How much does it cost this book?

I guess it would be a quite high price given the HG premises.

Anyway I like when someone writes a book on gambling.
So congratulations mr Tabone!

as.   


 

Quote from: ADulay on June 12, 2017, 03:07:26 AM
Well, if we can get "permission" from the author of TUBS, I'd like to post up the play from Shoe #2 which I show never goes positive after hand 14.  Obviously we're playing it differently.

AD

Re-checked.  You are correct.  Shoe #2 lost 5 units with TUBS.

Thanks.

when the number 3 will be edited?

[attachimg=1]


Just went through these 3 shoes with my own version of VDW.

Shoe 1: +4 flat bet. (+6 with divisor, highest bet of 2)

Shoe 2: +7 flat bet. (+10 with divisor, highest bet of 2)

Shoe 3: +8 flat bet. (+11 with divisor, highest bet of 2)

cheers

----

Sorry - do you mind posting definitions/ links for TUBS, VDW, etc.?  Haven't seen these terms before.  Thanks.

Quote from: 21 Aces on June 13, 2017, 10:51:28 PM
Sorry - do you mind posting definitions/ links for TUBS, VDW, etc.?  Haven't seen these terms before.  Thanks.

Did you read this thread?  It's in there.

AD

Quote from: alrelax on June 11, 2017, 08:40:27 AM
The guy said he has all the money he needs and he is compelled to help others. You do not have to read his material and you don't have to like it but how about letting the guy have his space and help others as he said, if they want it??  Why so derogatory? Thanks AL-RELAX

No system is perfect unless one is proven to work good enough at least to limit losses and the person using it also manages his money. I think everyone will agree to that.

Quote from: bacply on June 10, 2017, 02:48:22 PM
After reading your post I bought the book in Kindle form.  I read it in about an hour.  I like most of the premise of your system but not sure I like the risk/reward aspect.  I will not give anything away, but I am willing to try it.

Thanks,

John

1. on good shoes you will of course gain 3 unit wins, 2. on shoes were you struggle to gain wins, i.e. where you go maybe only 1+ unit in profit then fall back down then up again then maybe down a unit or two then recover to break even, you will be winning to get out breaking even rather than going 6- units down, if by say half the shoe it has been like this try and get out of the shoe breaking even 6- units down may refer to playing through a number of shoes if you come across bad shoes. 3. where shoe results are really bad and do not favor my strategy this is where you might take a hit, say 3- units down on two shoes thus 6- down total. But even when these times occur don't worry because in the long run over weeks you'll gain the advantage and will be many unit wins up. 

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 14, 2017, 01:07:41 AM
No system is perfect unless one is proven to work good enough at least to limit losses and the person using it also manages his money. I think everyone will agree to that.

Stephen,

  Hopefully you won't be offended by some of the "reports" on your Ultimate Baccarat System but we do have some pretty serious and intelligent players here who can analyze and dissect pretty much anything that gets posted on the board as "new and exciting" or the "Ultimate" system play.  That's one of the reasons we're here, to see "new" ideas from time to time and see where they eventually lead to.

  We have been kind enough to NOT actually post the contents of your "book" but it is becoming harder and harder not to do so as your play is so simplistic and pretty much any player with more than six months in the game has already run "your" play and dropped it by the wayside, for several reasons.

  So please stick around and perhaps you can answer some questions that others may have.

  AD

I don't ever recall using acronyms for book titles, but ok.

Quote from: Mike on June 12, 2017, 07:45:32 AM
Right. And I'm wondering what the differences are between versions given in the first and second editions of the book. The first edition was a 368 pages long! So either the system has been radically simplified or there was an awful lot of padding in the first edition.

The reviews of the first edition are not so complementary. One reviewer states

In the opening pages of the second edition, Stephen says "I really do not understand how on earth anyone could give my book a bad review".

Perhaps because they tested the system over the 200 shoes and found that the system didn't come up to the claims made?

Stephen makes the sweeping claim that all online casino games are fixed. Just how he comes to this conclusion I would really like to know. Does that include casinos which offer live Baccarat? Again, he says that all computer generated games are essentially worthless, implying that any tests done over such shoes will not represent a fair test of the system. Apart from the issue of how he knows this, and what the differences are between computer generated shoes and those dealt from an automatic shuffle machine in a real casino, it means that he can immediately dismiss any losses generated from such shoes. Given that most players don't have access to hundreds of real live shoe results, but will HAVE to use computer generated results, a cynic might take the view that this is rather convenient.

The first edition strategy was weak in that the second edition I brought in the 'bullet proof' element which makes my strategy the strongest there is in terms of 1. floating around even, which is a safe way to play, i.e. not going down a lot, and going up too of course. First edition gave shoe results which I did not form they are on web. I also wrote that reader can get his/her own results from real casino shoes. No padding just a perk for reader of paperback to practice on. As I wrote 2nd edition radically improved.

Reviews relate to the 2nd edition. If you try the strategy for yourself with updated advise you can see why I wrote what I had. The claims I make are real and it works. But you have to consider the long term not the short term. Even day traders lose money in order to win money!

"Stephen makes the sweeping claim that all online casino games are fixed. Just how he comes to this conclusion I would really like to know. Does that include casinos which offer live Baccarat?"

This is my opinion, I have evidences but why should I share to those who are skeptical about anything I write. I can't see the point.

"computer generated" I didn't or have not said that I don't agree with these otherwise I wouldn't have included them in the first edition book! What concerns me is people posting up results, made up by themselves that go against my strategy that do not show it in a fair light. They could make up the worst set of results over and over. I.e. such results are not random, not computer generated, and certainly not casino table results. Okay I get your point re not everyone has the time to get 100 of live casino baccarat table results, but if the average table takes 1 hour to conclude, and there are 4x tables at that casino and you take 3 shoes results of each table then you have 12 full shoe results. If you visited a casino once per week and did the same you would have over 600 full shoe results. Still this will not help anyone who cannot understand how to use  strategy to benefit him/her. 

Quote from: Eight Iron on June 12, 2017, 11:58:02 AM
Re-checked.  You are correct.  Shoe #2 lost 5 units with TUBS.

Thanks.

I cannot confirm where those results came from and I have written about exiting from a bad shoe at break even about half way through a shoe.

Quote from: 21 Aces on June 13, 2017, 10:51:28 PM
Sorry - do you mind posting definitions/ links for TUBS, VDW, etc.?  Haven't seen these terms before.  Thanks.

I don't know what VDW refers to but TUBS is The Ultimate Bullet Proof Baccarat Winning Strategy, I'm receiving emails and facebook messages all the time from people saying they are winning using the book but on this forum there are lose that do not believe in it. Which is fine but I get the sense that they are not focusing on the strategy as it was designed to be used, unless I have missed writing about something to do with it and playing it as I do winning in my own way. I will review it again. But I think it is pretty much easy to follow. Maybe I missed out writing about getting out at break even if the shoe is not going your way by about half way through a shoe, i.e. 30 results.

Quote from: ADulay on June 14, 2017, 01:15:15 AM
Stephen,

  Hopefully you won't be offended by some of the "reports" on your Ultimate Baccarat System but we do have some pretty serious and intelligent players here who can analyze and dissect pretty much anything that gets posted on the board as "new and exciting" or the "Ultimate" system play.  That's one of the reasons we're here, to see "new" ideas from time to time and see where they eventually lead to.

  We have been kind enough to NOT actually post the contents of your "book" but it is becoming harder and harder not to do so as your play is so simplistic and pretty much any player with more than six months in the game has already run "your" play and dropped it by the wayside, for several reasons.

  So please stick around and perhaps you can answer some questions that others may have.

  AD

I think you should thank your wife for buying you the best book on how to win at baccarat.

I think also I have answered some of the concerns posted on this forum. But I'm happy to engage with the pros, and would add that while I believe its the Ultimate Bullet Proof, its no miracle if that's what people are looking for (even the pros) BUT it does offer an excellent way of staying in the game and gaining plus unit wins over time. I have advised readers to get out of a bad shoe at break even at about half way 30 results. This is what I do when playing. Thus my + unit wins far outweigh my neg losses. I view break even shoes as wins.

To those that have supported my research I am going to giveaway a free gift, the secret bets within my strategy that are the most powerful and give you the edge over the casino by 1.8% When you receive please do not share with anyone keep it to yourselves and do not publish. I will give you this gift on the day after my next book is published. I will give this free gift to no more than 10 people. please state if you are interested and I will consider adding you to my giveaway list. I will not be offering this anywhere else, only on this forum.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 08, 2017, 09:16:30 PM
I spent 20 years researching the best way to win at baccarat. I finally nailed it and put my finding in 2 books, first and second editions. The latest book (second edition) has been in the top 7 best seller rank on amazon and  often at number #1 spot. Have received Facebook messages from all over the world thanking me for the strategy. I wrote second edition to strengthen the first edition strategy, it's the same strategy though has the Bullet Proof element to it. 

I'm writing edition THREE which explains the holy grail bet of all bets you should play at baccarat, the key bets, out of 10,000 attempts over many shoes the result is 74% wins v 26% losses. Therefore not only has the house edge been overturned in the gamblers favor, my third edition absolutely smashes the casinos. I'm based in the UK and betting £200 each time, I walk away with £800 every night I play. I'm not even sure I want to release the info to be honest. On the other hand the casinos can't change the rules so as to stop gamblers from winning, therefore I will be publishing in July. I promise you the NEW INFO will blow your mind.
[attachimg=1]

In my third book: I will be explaining the new info, my edge is as follows,

74 - 26 =48 divide by 26 = 1.84615384615

Therefore in short, I have 1.8 + chance of winning than not winning! in my third book I not only explain my NEW system BUT I show you HOW to play it!  AND in a whole shoe of approx 60 results I only bet max on 10 occasions, AND as I explain in my second edition I never ever double up or down! If you do you'll lose in the end.

To those that have supported my research I am going to giveaway a free gift, the secret bets within my strategy that are the most powerful and give you the edge over the casino by 1.8% When you receive please do not share with anyone keep it to yourselves and do not publish. I will give you this gift on the day after my next book is published. I will give this free gift to no more than 10 people. please state if you are interested and I will consider adding you to my giveaway list. I will not be offering this anywhere else, only on this forum.

Would love the free gift if still available... for what it's worth, I DID buy your 2nd edition on Amazon ;)
Thanks!

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 14, 2017, 01:31:05 AM
"Stephen makes the sweeping claim that all online casino games are fixed. Just how he comes to this conclusion I would really like to know. Does that include casinos which offer live Baccarat?"

This is my opinion, I have evidences but why should I share to those who are skeptical about anything I write. I can't see the point.

"computer generated" I didn't or have not said that I don't agree with these otherwise I wouldn't have included them in the first edition book! What concerns me is people posting up results, made up by themselves that go against my strategy that do not show it in a fair light. They could make up the worst set of results over and over. I.e. such results are not random, not computer generated, and certainly not casino table results. Okay I get your point re not everyone has the time to get 100 of live casino baccarat table results, but if the average table takes 1 hour to conclude, and there are 4x tables at that casino and you take 3 shoes results of each table then you have 12 full shoe results. If you visited a casino once per week and did the same you would have over 600 full shoe results. Still this will not help anyone who cannot understand how to use  strategy to benefit him/her.

Stephen,

You seem to have a short memory about what you've written in your own books. In the kindle preview of the second edition you say:

QuoteYou will know when you read this book that I do not agree with computer generated Baccarat or any online casino games. They are fixed so that you lose and the only people that profit are those that run the service and those that have referred to the service who receive commission.

And yes, I too wondered why you had written that when you have included computer generated shoes in the first edition.

Quote from: audionut on June 14, 2017, 03:01:40 AM
Would love the free gift if still available... for what it's worth, I DID buy your 2nd edition on Amazon ;)
Thanks!

I'll add you to my free gift list: mid July, you're the 3rd person, only 7 places left

Quote from: Mike on June 14, 2017, 07:40:21 AM
Stephen,

You seem to have a short memory about what you've written in your own books. In the kindle preview of the second edition you say:

And yes, I too wondered why you had written that when you have included computer generated shoes in the first edition.

I was in a rush to publish book, to clarify what I meant was, results that are generated by programs, similar to slot machines, this besides the live online baccarat games where you see a live dealer. My third edition will cover these issues in more details with evidences.   

Hi Stephen I purchased the 2nd edition Kindle version of your book on Amazon. Your bet selection is very similar to what I use for my cancelation betting progression with great success. Interested in being on your gift list for July.

God bless.

Quote from: Smoothie on June 14, 2017, 01:43:20 PM
Hi Stephen I purchased the 2nd edition Kindle version of your book on Amazon. Your bet selection is very similar to what I use for my cancelation betting progression with great success. Interested in being on your gift list for July.

God bless.

I'll add you to the free giveaway list: you're the 4th to enter. Mid July

Please add me in the free give away list. I bought both the editions.

Quote from: james on June 14, 2017, 02:13:43 PM
Please add me in the free give away list. I bought both the editions.

added as 5th to enter

Stephen,

I would be interested in that.

Thanks,

John

Hi Stephen,

I purchased your 2nd edition TUB book a few months ago from a word of mouth recommendation.

Would be great to be added to the list :)

Thanks.

NEW MEMBERS CHERRS
??? ??? ???

Quote from: bacply on June 14, 2017, 03:13:46 PM
Stephen,

I would be interested in that.

Thanks,

John

6th to enter

Quote from: Armilar on June 14, 2017, 03:29:34 PM
Hi Stephen,

I purchased your 2nd edition TUB book a few months ago from a word of mouth recommendation.

Would be great to be added to the list :)

Thanks.

7th to enter

Thanks, XXXXX!
The Ultimate-Bullet Proof Baccarat Winning Strategy: 2nd Edition: Every Casino Gambler Serious About Winning Money at Baccarat (Punto Banco) Should Read This Book will be auto-delivered wirelessly to XXXXX's Kindle Cloud Reader. You can go to your device to start reading.


Can you please add me to the list?  Also, if people are critical it is because they most likely have put in a lot of work at the game.

Quote from: 21 Aces on June 14, 2017, 04:03:30 PM
Thanks, XXXXX!
The Ultimate-Bullet Proof Baccarat Winning Strategy: 2nd Edition: Every Casino Gambler Serious About Winning Money at Baccarat (Punto Banco) Should Read This Book will be auto-delivered wirelessly to XXXXX's Kindle Cloud Reader. You can go to your device to start reading.


Can you please add me to the list?  Also, if people are critical it is because they most likely have put in a lot of work at the game.

8th to enter

Stephen,

I'd like a free copy of your third edition too please. I just want to prove that it doesn't work, but I don't want to pay for the privilege.

Thanks (well, worth a try, lol).

Quote from: Mike on June 14, 2017, 04:11:35 PM
Stephen,

I'd like a free copy of your third edition too please. I just want to prove that it doesn't work, but I don't want to pay for the privilege.

Thanks (well, worth a try, lol).

fair enough i'd be happy to give you a free copy 9th to enter

Quote from: Mike on June 14, 2017, 04:11:35 PM
Stephen,

I'd like a free copy of your third edition too please. I just want to prove that it doesn't work, but I don't want to pay for the privilege.

Thanks (well, worth a try, lol).

I think you'll find that it works 100% 1.8+ edge over the house

Quote from: Mike on June 14, 2017, 04:11:35 PM
Stephen,

I'd like a free copy of your third edition too please. I just want to prove that it doesn't work, but I don't want to pay for the privilege.

Thanks (well, worth a try, lol).

it will blow your mind. casinos should be worried

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 14, 2017, 04:19:17 PM
fair enough i'd be happy to give you a free copy 9th to enter

Thanks!

Wasn't expecting that... LOL

Please add me to your list if I may ask. Thank you.

uote author=Stephen Tabone link=topic=8174.msg56730#msg56730 date=1497456085]
6th to enter
[/quote]

Quote from: Barron518 on June 14, 2017, 06:15:38 PM
Please add me to your list if I may ask. Thank you.

uote author=Stephen Tabone link=topic=8174.msg56730#msg56730 date=1497456085]
6th to enter

then you shall be my 10th entry

Thank you very much.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 14, 2017, 02:04:06 AM
To those that have supported my research I am going to giveaway a free gift, the secret bets within my strategy that are the most powerful and give you the edge over the casino by 1.8% When you receive please do not share with anyone keep it to yourselves and do not publish. I will give you this gift on the day after my next book is published. I will give this free gift to no more than 10 people. please state if you are interested and I will consider adding you to my giveaway list. I will not be offering this anywhere else, only on this forum.

Im Interested. Thanks in advance.

 
The last reply answear my question so i delete my quetion with this reply ....

Cheers

Quote from: carlog12345 on June 14, 2017, 06:30:12 PM
Im Interested. Thanks in advance.

I'm sorry but I have 10 already, if anything changes I will let you know.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 14, 2017, 02:04:06 AM
To those that have supported my research I am going to giveaway a free gift, the secret bets within my strategy that are the most powerful and give you the edge over the casino by 1.8% When you receive please do not share with anyone keep it to yourselves and do not publish. I will give you this gift on the day after my next book is published. I will give this free gift to no more than 10 people. please state if you are interested and I will consider adding you to my giveaway list. I will not be offering this anywhere else, only on this forum.

If anything changes and you have more giveaways, I would be interested.

Thanks
Baelog

i think modify for rx code

for test long run

i buy i know trigger opp+wait 3

i want rx code for test

Stephen, I'd like to have a copy if there's any changes. Thanks in advance  :P

wow, this is better than spicy spiraccha huh   >:D? alrelax? congrats stephen on your 2nd edition debut!!

Quote from: toknoy on June 16, 2017, 07:35:40 AM
wow, this is better than spicy spiraccha huh   >:D? alrelax? congrats stephen on your 2nd edition debut!!

Be respectful.  It is sriracha.  Come on seriously, sriracha was better, no??

Quote from: Djbac on June 16, 2017, 05:45:23 AM
Stephen, I'd like to have a copy if there's any changes. Thanks in advance  :P

I will let you know

Quote from: ice789 on June 16, 2017, 05:17:40 AM
i buy i know trigger opp+wait 3

i want rx code for test

I think we can all assume that you're talking about having the TUBS play programmed to run under the Roulette Extreme program.

Shouldn't be too difficult as a very similar RX code is already done that comes with the program proper.

AD

Quote from: ADulay on June 16, 2017, 07:57:59 PM
I think we can all assume that you're talking about having the TUBS play programmed to run under the Roulette Extreme program.

Shouldn't be too difficult as a very similar RX code is already done that comes with the program proper.

AD

Whilst you might run, 'The Ultimate Bullet Proof Baccarat Winning Strategy' through a program please consider that I have advised that by about half way if the shoe results are not going the person playing the games way, that they should try and exit at break even, therefore you'd have to set the program to follow this advise too. Also a person might want to exit other shoes 3- as opposed to 6- depending how many decks of cards are being used because the results of a shoe of course depend on how many decks are being used. Remember that while my strategy is The Ultimate, (of all systems) it does not promise miracles. The person using the strategy should employ strict money management. His/Her aim should be to try and walk away 3+ unit wins in profit in a day and not to play shoe after shoe after shoe. Since I have written in previous threads, all systems go through cycles. The game is very tight,50/50 therefore a player should use common sense. To win a player should be looking at the longer term and not a set of computer generated results through a program. Real casino shoe results differ largly from those generated via computer programs. his also holds true with roulette or any other casino game.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 16, 2017, 08:45:45 PM
Whilst you might run, 'The Ultimate Bullet Proof Baccarat Winning Strategy' through a program please consider that I have advised that by about half way if the shoe results are not going the person playing the games way, that they should try and exit at break even, therefore you'd have to set the program to follow this advise too. Also a person might want to exit other shoes 3- as opposed to 6- depending how many decks of cards are being used because the results of a shoe of course depend on how many decks are being used. Remember that while my strategy is The Ultimate, (of all systems) it does not promise miracles. The person using the strategy should employ strict money management. His/Her aim should be to try and walk away 3+ unit wins in profit in a day and not to play shoe after shoe after shoe. Since I have written in previous threads, all systems go through cycles. The game is very tight,50/50 therefore a player should use common sense. To win a player should be looking at the longer term and not a set of computer generated results through a program. Real casino shoe results differ largly from those generated via computer programs. his also holds true with roulette or any other casino game.

Stephen,

  I will run another set of 50 shoes under these "new and improved" guidelines.   All of my tests are run with REAL shoes.  No computer generated data at all.

  Heck, if I really get bored tonight (it's currently raining and I can't get to the range for tonight's match) I'll even run them by hand to make sure they computer is running them correctly.

  As today is June 16th I'll run my tests with shoes 616 through 666.   Yes, it is a pain to cut and paste 50 different shoe results.

  If I can ever get a decent batch of shoes to produce a profit worth mentioning, I'll then put it to the acid test of the "Bac-Malta 40000" file.   It's 40,000 consecutive dealt live hands in chronological order from a live dealt table.   I'll have to modify the start and stop points along the way to make sure it leaves shoes at the appropriate times, but it can be done if I really need to.

  Why I'm putting this much effort in it, I really don't know but I am intrigued that I might be missing something obvious, but I do have my reservations, of course.

  AD

Quote from: ADulay on June 16, 2017, 10:48:00 PM
Stephen,

  I will run another set of 50 shoes under these "new and improved" guidelines.   All of my tests are run with REAL shoes.  No computer generated data at all.

  Heck, if I really get bored tonight (it's currently raining and I can't get to the range for tonight's match) I'll even run them by hand to make sure they computer is running them correctly.

  As today is June 16th I'll run my tests with shoes 616 through 666.   Yes, it is a pain to cut and paste 50 different shoe results.

  If I can ever get a decent batch of shoes to produce a profit worth mentioning, I'll then put it to the acid test of the "Bac-Malta 40000" file.   It's 40,000 consecutive dealt live hands in chronological order from a live dealt table.   I'll have to modify the start and stop points along the way to make sure it leaves shoes at the appropriate times, but it can be done if I really need to.

  Why I'm putting this much effort in it, I really don't know but I am intrigued that I might be missing something obvious, but I do have my reservations, of course.

  AD

If it is as you say it all is and you will do as you say you will, then I think you'll find solid 24k gold. I'm not giving away my golden goose just yet, you'll have to wait to mid July.

Let us know how it goes with the results.

Quote from: ADulay on June 16, 2017, 10:48:00 PM
Stephen,

  I will run another set of 50 shoes under these "new and improved" guidelines.   All of my tests are run with REAL shoes.  No computer generated data at all.

  Heck, if I really get bored tonight (it's currently raining and I can't get to the range for tonight's match) I'll even run them by hand to make sure they computer is running them correctly.

  As today is June 16th I'll run my tests with shoes 616 through 666.   Yes, it is a pain to cut and paste 50 different shoe results.

  If I can ever get a decent batch of shoes to produce a profit worth mentioning, I'll then put it to the acid test of the "Bac-Malta 40000" file.   It's 40,000 consecutive dealt live hands in chronological order from a live dealt table.   I'll have to modify the start and stop points along the way to make sure it leaves shoes at the appropriate times, but it can be done if I really need to.

  Why I'm putting this much effort in it, I really don't know but I am intrigued that I might be missing something obvious, but I do have my reservations, of course.

  AD

Also please don't forget to SPLIT the wins, when 3+ units are gained, call that a day and start from that point on wards. But in any case if they are proper shoe results sourced from a casino then system should be absolute bullet proof and ultimate, save that I will release the advantage information in July.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 16, 2017, 11:12:33 PM
Also please don't forget to SPLIT the wins, when 3+ units are gained, call that a day and start from that point on wards. But in any case if they are proper shoe results sourced from a casino then system should be absolute bullet proof and ultimate, save that I will release the advantage information in July.

Stephen,

  I plugged the 50 shoes (616 thru 666) into the box and using the "new and improved" rules it came out with a +42 units for the run.   That's not bad.

  But, being the detail man that I am, I had to manually check that my calculations on the spreadsheet were giving me valid results so I ran those 50 shoes MANUALLY.

  Yep, it came out with +44 after those 50 shoes.    18 losing shoes (of -5 or less) and 32 winning shoes of +2 or more.

  I would have to say that making the change to "leaving at neutral or slightly down" anytime past about mid-shoe made a difference.

  Let me run back and check that first batch with the "new rules" and see if it made a difference overall.

  AD

Quote from: ADulay on June 16, 2017, 10:48:00 PM
If I can ever get a decent batch of shoes to produce a profit worth mentioning, I'll then put it to the acid test of the "Bac-Malta 40000" file.   
It's 40,000 consecutive dealt live hands in chronological order from a live dealt table.   
  AD

Andy, could you please let me know where I could find those hands to download?
What if I can produce a hefty net profit after betting all those hands?
Would that be interesting to say the least?

Quote from: ADulay on June 16, 2017, 11:41:03 PM
Stephen,

  I plugged the 50 shoes (616 thru 666) into the box and using the "new and improved" rules it came out with a +42 units for the run.   That's not bad.

  But, being the detail man that I am, I had to manually check that my calculations on the spreadsheet were giving me valid results so I ran those 50 shoes MANUALLY.

  Yep, it came out with +44 after those 50 shoes.    18 losing shoes (of -5 or less) and 32 winning shoes of +2 or more.

  I would have to say that making the change to "leaving at neutral or slightly down" anytime past about mid-shoe made a difference.

  Let me run back and check that first batch with the "new rules" and see if it made a difference overall.

  AD

It will, it will rule out a number of losing shoes of 3- or more, around half way point, what you'll find it 50% wins, 3+ or more, 20% loses -3 (if you stop at 3- and if way before half way) and 30% break even. Therefore there is a great edge. 

Quote from: ADulay on June 16, 2017, 11:41:03 PM
Stephen,

  I plugged the 50 shoes (616 thru 666) into the box and using the "new and improved" rules it came out with a +42 units for the run.   That's not bad.

  But, being the detail man that I am, I had to manually check that my calculations on the spreadsheet were giving me valid results so I ran those 50 shoes MANUALLY.

  Yep, it came out with +44 after those 50 shoes.    18 losing shoes (of -5 or less) and 32 winning shoes of +2 or more.

  I would have to say that making the change to "leaving at neutral or slightly down" anytime past about mid-shoe made a difference.

  Let me run back and check that first batch with the "new rules" and see if it made a difference overall.

  AD

when you read edition 3, you will be making a living from the casino!
I've given you the strawberries but JUST WAIT FOR THE CREAM! I really pour it on!

So your purpose here is to promote books which could win max +3 units per shoe?

I can do better than that and obviously your main income comes from book sales rather than playing Baccarat.

Quote from: Blue_Angel on June 17, 2017, 12:00:00 AM
So your purpose here is to promote books which could win max +3 units per shoe?

I can do better than that and obviously your main income comes from book sales rather than playing Baccarat.

no, you should read all my posts. I'm doing okay when I bet though I prefer to write because I don't find much time to go to casinos, max twice a week. re 3+ units, you should read my book because I provide good reasons why 3+ units. Though there is scope for tweaking here and there, the game is  tight 50/50 what are you looking for? is not over 1,000 units not enough for you? if you have a better way of playing I'd like to know before I except an offer from one of the biggest gambling companies out there who are interested in my future works. When you read my 3rd edition you'll see why my research helps people win. 

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 16, 2017, 11:46:55 PM
when you read edition 3, you will be making a living from the casino!
I've given you the strawberries but JUST WAIT FOR THE CREAM! I really pour it on!

Stephen,

  Actually I'm not on the list for Edition 3 and really don't plan on buying the book.

  However I did go back and take a look at that first run of 50 shoes (original result was -16) and after applying the "new" rules (mid-shoe losing exit and all that) it dropped down to -4 across all the shoes.

  I'd say that mid course correction does make a difference. 

  I'll put some time into this over the weekend with some testing routines. 

  Thanks for the idea.

  AD

Quote from: ADulay on June 17, 2017, 12:15:39 AM
Stephen,

  Actually I'm not on the list for Edition 3 and really don't plan on buying the book.

  However I did go back and take a look at that first run of 50 shoes (original result was -16) and after applying the "new" rules (mid-shoe losing exit and all that) it dropped down to -4 across all the shoes.

  I'd say that mid course correction does make a difference. 

  I'll put some time into this over the weekend with some testing routines. 

  Thanks for the idea.

  AD

I'm not even sure I want to publish edition 3 it's so powerful. I'm using it to win but shall I share it, I'm not sure. on average no more than 2-4 losses in a row, approx on average 2-4 wins in a row. risk/reward is 1.8win v 1 loss therefore 0.8+ win, when i double on on 3rd edition strategy I gather my losses turning them and yield a profit. and when i win right off flat betting, I flat bet the next no doubling up to risk it. It's almost a constant win. I'm using it now, I'm drawn between keeping it to myself or sharing.

Quote from: ADulay on June 17, 2017, 12:15:39 AM
Stephen,

  Actually I'm not on the list for Edition 3 and really don't plan on buying the book.

  However I did go back and take a look at that first run of 50 shoes (original result was -16) and after applying the "new" rules (mid-shoe losing exit and all that) it dropped down to -4 across all the shoes.

  I'd say that mid course correction does make a difference. 

  I'll put some time into this over the weekend with some testing routines. 

  Thanks for the idea.

  AD

I'm trying to extend my free offer with my publishers so sure will try and sort something for you.

Quote from: Blue_Angel on June 16, 2017, 11:41:40 PM
Andy, could you please let me know where I could find those hands to download?

You can't anymore.  It's not there anymore, at least the database that it came from is not there anymore that I can find.
It was a personal compilation gathered over a specific point in time.  40,000 hands from one single table literally minute by minute, time coded for reference.

I figured that 40,000 hands should be enough to validate pretty much any "system" play that came across my desk.

Quote from: Blue_Angel on June 16, 2017, 11:41:40 PM
What if I can produce a hefty net profit after betting all those hands?
Would that be interesting to say the least?

You know, I've freely handed out that hand compilation to several people who said they desperately needed it to finish off some testing of a great system.  I've never heard back from any of them.  Hopefully at least one of them got some good use from the data.

You're welcome to it if it will help you develop an idea that you have.

Or I can sell it on Amazon as a Kindle book for $9.99.  :P

AD

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 17, 2017, 12:53:02 AM
I'm trying to extend my free offer with my publishers so sure will try and sort something for you.

Stephen,

  No need to send me anything.  I'm only working on this due to a simple miscommunication causing it to cross my desk and am about to put it on the shelf after some validation testing today.

  I've tested it enough "internally" to see that it is not a valid play for me, personally.

  Others may find it most suited to their own style.

  Thanks anyway.

  AD

okay, thanks for testing

Adulay, thanks for the test ...

Cheers

I buy the book yesterday and read it and done some testing.
But i can not produce the same results as Adulay got, so i would like to ask if i am missing something.
Maybe the reason is that i run RNG with Red & Black with La Partage Rule.

Could see a link to wizards of odds baccarat results, maybe i should test them?

1) Win Taget +3 units and Loss Limit -6 units.
2) When you reach half the shoe without hitting your Win Target you break even or hit loss limit.
3) When i you reach +3 you can push for more and if you lose stay at +2 (did not apply this with my testing)

Quote from: ADulay on June 16, 2017, 11:41:03 PM
Stephen,

  I plugged the 50 shoes (616 thru 666) into the box and using the "new and improved" rules it came out with a +42 units for the run.   That's not bad.

  But, being the detail man that I am, I had to manually check that my calculations on the spreadsheet were giving me valid results so I ran those 50 shoes MANUALLY.

  Yep, it came out with +44 after those 50 shoes.    18 losing shoes (of -5 or less) and 32 winning shoes of +2 or more.

  I would have to say that making the change to "leaving at neutral or slightly down" anytime past about mid-shoe made a difference.

  Let me run back and check that first batch with the "new rules" and see if it made a difference overall.

  AD

50 SAMPLE OF 100 RANDOM BITS.

11 SAMPLE OF 100 RANDOM BITS BREAK EVEN
31 SAMPLE OF 100 RANDOM BITS WON
  8 SAMPLE OF 100 RANDOM BITS LOSS

+83 UNITS WON
-59 UNITS LOSS
+24 TOTAL NET GAIN

1. +0
2. +2.5
3. +3
4. +2.5
5. -6
6. +0
7. +3
8. -0.5
9. +2.5
10. +3

+16.5
-6
TOTAL +10.5

1. -5.5
2. -6
3. -0.5
4. +0
5. +2.5
6. -5.5
7. +0
8. +3
9. +3
10. +3

+11.5
-17.5
TOTAL -6

1. +3
2. +2.5
3. -5.5
4. +3
5. +3
6. +3
7. +3
8. +3
9. +0
10. +3

+23.5
-5.5
TOTAL +28

1. +3
2. -6.5
3. +0
4. +3
5. -6
6. -6
7. +0
8. +2.5
9. +3
10. +2.5

+14
-18.5
TOTAL -4.5

1. +3
2. +0
3. +3
4. +2.5
5. +0
6. +3
7. +3
8. -6
9. +3
10. -5.5

+17.5
-11.5
TOTAL +6

 I got a run with even results running 50 samples with 100 random bits with La Partage Rule. I end up with -2 units.

1. +2.5   
2. -6      
3. +0      
4. +0       
5. +1.5   
6. +0.5   
7. -0.5   
8. -0.5   
9. +0      
10. +0

+4.5
-7
TOTAL -2.5

1. +2.5
2. +2.5
3. +3
4. +3
5. +2
6. -6
7. +3
8. +3
9. -6
10. +3

+20
-12
TOTAL +8

1. +2.5
2. +0
3. +3
4. +2.5
5. +3
6. +3
7. +3
8. +3
9. -6
10. +0

+20
-6
TOTAL +12

1. -5.5
2. -6
3. -5.5
4. +2
5. -5.5
6. +0
7. +3
8. +0
9. +3
10. +3

+11
-22.5
TOTAL -11.5

1. +3
2. -6
3. -5.5
4. +3
5. +3
6. +0
7. +0
8. -6
9. -6
10. +2

+11
-23.5
TOTAL -12.5

13 BREAK EVEN
25 WON
12 LOSS

+68 UNITS
-70 UNITS
-2 UNITS

Quote from: ADulay on June 16, 2017, 11:41:03 PM
Stephen,

  I plugged the 50 shoes (616 thru 666) into the box and using the "new and improved" rules it came out with a +42 units for the run.   That's not bad.

  But, being the detail man that I am, I had to manually check that my calculations on the spreadsheet were giving me valid results so I ran those 50 shoes MANUALLY.

  Yep, it came out with +44 after those 50 shoes.    18 losing shoes (of -5 or less) and 32 winning shoes of +2 or more.

  I would have to say that making the change to "leaving at neutral or slightly down" anytime past about mid-shoe made a difference.

  Let me run back and check that first batch with the "new rules" and see if it made a difference overall.

  AD

Adulay i send you a PM and could not notice one important difference.
I would have to say that making the change to "leaving at neutral or slightly down" anytime past about mid-shoe made a difference.

Now i can see that if you not reach the win target and not break even at mid-shoe you did not continue until you break even or hit loss limit and stop before that with any unit value close to zero.
That would make the loses less.

I will make another 100 samples.
And this time i will also push for more when i reach +3 or stop at +2

Cheers

Are you guys ignoring COMMISSION?  I think you are.  So a break even shoe is a losing shoe!  I'm getting tire dof bringing this up.

EZ Back with no commissions if you are in the USA usually one property nearby has it available. 

Quote from: Jimske on June 21, 2017, 12:17:00 AM
Are you guys ignoring COMMISSION?  I think you are.  So a break even shoe is a losing shoe!  I'm getting tire dof bringing this up.

I sent you a link to your friends book but see that you did not respond.

Quote from: alrelax on June 11, 2017, 08:40:27 AM
The guy said he has all the money he needs and he is compelled to help others. You do not have to read his material and you don't have to like it but how about letting the guy have his space and help others as he said, if they want it??  Why so derogatory? Thanks AL-RELAX

Stephen was attacked by Jimske many times as everyone can see on other threads. Then Lungyeh jumps on the band wagon. Stephen is a sponsor as others have commented and therefore has the right to promote his book. If some people don't like it then take it up with admin. alrelax, I do not think it right or fair of you to ignore this and support the attackers instigators of chaos. Supporting a charity is neither here nor there, the fact that Lungyeh supports Jimske's childish behavior is the point I believe from reading what Stephen is not happy about. So it it not helpful of you to support those that are not sticking to baccarat and gambling on this forum. Please stop it because you're making yourself look bad.

Quote from: Jimske on June 21, 2017, 12:17:00 AM
Are you guys ignoring COMMISSION?  I think you are.  So a break even shoe is a losing shoe!  I'm getting tire dof bringing this up.

Here it is: https://www.amazon.com/NOR-Approach-Baccarat-Majin-Lupin-ebook/dp/B00MFY8FUQ/ref=zg_bs_4423_5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WJEBJBJJRRHW034QJNSJ

As I wrote, NOR is a complex system but when it does not work it refers to another mode or play and when that does not work it refers yet again to another mode of play therefore you need to be a computer to remember what to do.

I noticed you never came back to claim your 10k$ I offered to you if you could prove where I wrote that I bought NOR !!!  :applause:

As I wrote NOR is (or was last time I check last year) on youtube, all explained.   :nod: NOR is for old forgetful men who cannot see the wood from the trees. It is not for people that really want to win! It creates confusion and uses multiple systems to give an answer for when the shoes results change which do not support the particular system being used at the time! I know, I know, you're  >:D angry. I don't blame you, the truth hurts,  :whistle:

The Ultimate Bullet Proof Baccarat Winning Strategy, is much more straight forward and people are winning with it. Only gamblers who cannot manage their money or who stop using this system lose because they go back to their old ways!

Quote from: Jimske on June 21, 2017, 12:17:00 AM
Are you guys ignoring COMMISSION?  I think you are.  So a break even shoe is a losing shoe!  I'm getting tire dof bringing this up.

A break even shoe is not a losing shoe because there will only be a few occasions when bettor will need to pay tax on bank wins. And a few unit loses for out weigh a few 5% hits on bank wins. Better to pay the tax and come out break even then be hit 3- therefore you're still in the game. In any case Jimske by reading your posts you don't want to win, you want to support your NOR mate and dreams about using a number of systems at once! Your the type of person who love his VW but when someone says there is a better car a BMW you are stuck in your ways and don't want to jump ship!  :))

Please feel free to ignore my comments. I probably shouldn't have commented. Just felt that discussions had been going on way too long and going nowhere on the small subject matter of a book.

Alrelax and Jimske have the one holy grail - play the shoe as it unravels before you.

My verdict and i will give you a negative review at Amazon based upon your baccarat method.
It does not matter how you twist or try to improve the method, Adulay got lucky with his test using 50 shoe that end up with +44 units.

Assume i would play a 50/50 game with out house edge - then the first 50 samples would gain +24 units and the second 50 samples -2 units and another 40 samples -1 units.
So 140 samples are equal to playing 140 shoes and you don't end up with profit.

Sorry to say but this method is not a winner and the verdict is based upon my own testing using the rules in the book.

Cheers

Here is my test of 27 live shoes played in order following the rules in the very short book.

Baelog

[attachimg=1]

Quote from: Sputnik on June 21, 2017, 03:54:25 PM
Sorry to say but this method is not a winner and the verdict is based upon my own testing using the rules in the book.

Cheers

I concur.

AD

Quote from: ADulay on June 21, 2017, 08:25:16 PM
I concur.

AD

I agree.

Quote from: Baelog on June 21, 2017, 09:24:24 PM
I agree.

emm, this is subjective. One min, someone posts that the system works and is 44+ over a number of shoes, the next min is is down over a number of shoes. Results of shoes no one on here can confirm are even real. And since it seems by reading posts regarding The Ultimate Bullet Proof Baccarat winning strategy (TUBS) that there seem to be a few on here ganging up against Stephen and his TUB, leaving neg reviews on Amazon, given the attacks on him, any reader would have to conclude that the results stated by such members are either unreliable or invented. There are also good reviews, and good feedback from other members of this site it appears, by people that are not against him or his system. emm, I'm minded to treat the attack on his system with some skepticism. One of the issues that crossed my mind is that in his system he states that you should aim for 3+ per day, but the results a few members on here are claiming are real, even if they are are continuous which TUBS advises against in his book. Therefore you clearly are not following the advise in TUBS you are picking and choosing in order to dismiss his system. The fact that you do this means that you are trying to find reasons to make it seem that it does not work. Even the results 'Baelog' give (if they are real) show wins on particular shoes. Therefore if you take these wins, or the first 3+ wins as wins per day then the system works. Who knows what results would occur on following days. Again his system advises to call it a day when 3+ and not continue to play on and on and on... Though that said 'ADulay' in checking ongoing shoes stated that TUBS worked and was 44+ !! You can't have it both ways and you can't go against his advise and then claim that TUBS does not work. I think it does work if you stick to the rules proper which include walking away 3+ in profit per day. As for the tweaking of the system, he did d that a bit, some of you put it down, but what is wrong with tweaking something if it makes it even better? If you don't follow the rules, all the rules you will never find any system useful let alone win using it. I have a feeling you really are using it to win but don't want others using it because you're afraid of admitting it is the Ultimate baccarat system. Though I might have got this all wrong.

Quote from: gizmo26 on June 22, 2017, 12:16:00 AM
emm, this is subjective. One min, someone posts that the system works and is 44+ over a number of shoes, the next min is is down over a number of shoes. Results of shoes no one on here can confirm are even real. And since it seems by reading posts regarding The Ultimate Bullet Proof Baccarat winning strategy (TUBS) that there seem to be a few on here ganging up against Stephen and his TUB, leaving neg reviews on Amazon, given the attacks on him, any reader would have to conclude that the results stated by such members are either unreliable or invented. There are also good reviews, and good feedback from other members of this site it appears, by people that are not against him or his system. emm, I'm minded to treat the attack on his system with some skepticism. One of the issues that crossed my mind is that in his system he states that you should aim for 3+ per day, but the results a few members on here are claiming are real, even if they are are continuous which TUBS advises against in his book. Therefore you clearly are not following the advise in TUBS you are picking and choosing in order to dismiss his system. The fact that you do this means that you are trying to find reasons to make it seem that it does not work. Even the results 'Baelog' give (if they are real) show wins on particular shoes. Therefore if you take these wins, or the first 3+ wins as wins per day then the system works. Who knows what results would occur on following days. Again his system advises to call it a day when 3+ and not continue to play on and on and on... Though that said 'ADulay' in checking ongoing shoes stated that TUBS worked and was 44+ !! You can't have it both ways and you can't go against his advise and then claim that TUBS does not work. I think it does work if you stick to the rules proper which include walking away 3+ in profit per day. As for the tweaking of the system, he did d that a bit, some of you put it down, but what is wrong with tweaking something if it makes it even better? If you don't follow the rules, all the rules you will never find any system useful let alone win using it. I have a feeling you really are using it to win but don't want others using it because you're afraid of admitting it is the Ultimate baccarat system. Though I might have got this all wrong.

I agree, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.I did not advise in my book to play shoe after shoe after shoe. They are not following my advise therefore I would expect them not to win.

Gentlemen,

  I believe I may have been quoted incorrectly.

  Yes, I did run a batch of 50 shoes and it turned out a +44, both under my spreadsheet macro and close enough running them MANUALLY to confirm the results.

  With that said, a +44 after 50 shoes is less than one unit per shoe and I did NOT take the commission out of those.

  I think I'll pull another 50 shoes (different dates/book) and make another run at it, just to confirm my earlier findings.

  I harbor no ill will against Stephen nor do I hate his book.  I just found that it was not for me and the style of play is not to my liking.  If it would actually make a substantial profit, I would be more enthusiastic, but for now it is merely another copy of another system play but without the good parts attached.

  AD

Recent test run of another 50 shoes.   All shoes from either Dublin Bet or the Immokalee Indian casino circa July and August of 2014.

50 shoes.  -16 units played according to the "latest rules" posted here.  :stress:

This is not looking good.

Stephen, you better get Version 3.0 published quickly! 

AD

Quote from: ADulay on June 22, 2017, 03:02:49 AM
Recent test run of another 50 shoes.   All shoes from either Dublin Bet or the Immokalee Indian casino circa July and August of 2014.

50 shoes.  -16 units played according to the "latest rules" posted here.  :stress:

This is not looking good.

Stephen, you better get Version 3.0 published quickly! 

AD

There might be a concerted attempt to discredit my strategy, a number of bad reviews from the mob! and results that no one reader on this forum can verify as being true live casino dealer baccarat shoe results. Anyone can come on and say Hey WTF I just checked 100 live shoes my great grandad saved on his shelf and guess what, yeah that's right, the TUBS system is like WTF 32- unit down. No way!! run for the hills.... :applause: yet I keep receiving emails from people saying they are winning! can't make head or tail of it all.  :cheer: and countless requests for my 3rd.  8) but don't worry it's only psychological...  :)) :'( :))  :'( :)) I'm not here to be liked, I'm here to help people to win. But the truth must be the truth and not backstabbing to protect a 700$ workshop in Vegas. I advise people to be happy with 3+ unit wins per day, I don't say keep playing shoe after shoe. Thus it's not complicated. Thus It must be greed, disbelief and/or the  workshop mob! >:D

3.0 out July. I turn the house edge onto the side of the bettor with ease!  :thumbsup:

I have the right to write my opinion and make my own conclusion.
What is this talk about a mob? i am not part of a gang who talk stuff! i am a honest person!

Cheers

So is it true, as someone has mentioned, that the 3rd edition of your book is useless without the 2nd edition? If that's the case, then I would like to be removed from the list of those members who will receive the 3rd edition, because I have no intention of buying the 2nd edition.  It's misleading for you to offer the 3rd edition for "free" if there are strings attached. You should have made it clear that this is "BOGOF" offer.

Quoteyet I keep receiving emails from people saying they are winning! can't make head or tail of it all

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence that the system works. ANY system, even if a loser, will elicit both favorable and negative reviews in the short term. Furthermore, you're more likely to receive emails from satisfied purchasers than from those who have lost. The latter won't bother to complain because they know it's pointless, and besides, it didn't cost them much. The correct way to gauge the merit of a system is to test is over a statistically significant number of decisions. The system should have no subjective elements or ambiguities; no room for "interpretation" or discretionary bets. If it does, the "system" is worthless (it's just guessing).

And to suggest that  playing "shoe after shoe after shoe" undermines the system is nonsense. How can the (or indeed, any) system be played any other way? "Quit when ahead" is one of those persistent myths so beloved by gamblers, who seem unable to comprehend just how absurdly illogical it is. If you have a real edge then playing 10 shoes one after the other will generate the same results as playing 1 shoe per day for 10 days. The edge has to be there before you start playing, it's not created by quitting when ahead.

Quote from: Sputnik on June 22, 2017, 08:19:02 AM
I have the right to write my opinion and make my own conclusion.
What is this talk about a mob? i am not part of a gang who talk stuff! i am a honest person!

Cheers

You're name was not mentioned I don't know why you think it had been. Of course you have the right to your opinion and I did not write that you were not an honest person! Take it easy man!  O0

Quote from: Mike on June 22, 2017, 08:23:49 AM
So is it true, as someone has mentioned, that the 3rd edition of your book is useless without the 2nd edition? If that's the case, then I would like to be removed from the list of those members who will receive the 3rd edition, because I have no intention of buying the 2nd edition.  It's misleading for you to offer the 3rd edition for "free" if there are strings attached. You should have made it clear that this is "BOGOF" offer.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence that the system works. ANY system, even if a loser, will elicit both favorable and negative reviews in the short term. Furthermore, you're more likely to receive emails from satisfied purchasers than from those who have lost. The latter won't bother to complain because they know it's pointless, and besides, it didn't cost them much. The correct way to gauge the merit of a system is to test is over a statistically significant number of decisions. The system should have no subjective elements or ambiguities; no room for "interpretation" or discretionary bets. If it does, the "system" is worthless (it's just guessing).

And to suggest that  playing "shoe after shoe after shoe" undermines the system is nonsense. How can the (or indeed, any) system be played any other way? "Quit when ahead" is one of those persistent myths so beloved by gamblers, who seem unable to comprehend just how absurdly illogical it is. If you have a real edge then playing 10 shoes one after the other will generate the same results as playing 1 shoe per day for 10 days. The edge has to be there before you start playing, it's not created by quitting when ahead.

who wrote you have to get 2nd book to understand 3rd?

re stopping when ahead, you got this wrong, ask any day trader, they will tell you that you HAVE TO STOP WHEN AHEAD. Gambling works the same as spread betting does. One must stop when ahead. It is as simple as that. Gamblers lose because they don't stop.

B.

Quote from: Mike on June 22, 2017, 08:23:49 AM
So is it true, as someone has mentioned, that the 3rd edition of your book is useless without the 2nd edition? If that's the case, then I would like to be removed from the list of those members who will receive the 3rd edition, because I have no intention of buying the 2nd edition.  It's misleading for you to offer the 3rd edition for "free" if there are strings attached. You should have made it clear that this is "BOGOF" offer.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence that the system works. ANY system, even if a loser, will elicit both favorable and negative reviews in the short term. Furthermore, you're more likely to receive emails from satisfied purchasers than from those who have lost. The latter won't bother to complain because they know it's pointless, and besides, it didn't cost them much. The correct way to gauge the merit of a system is to test is over a statistically significant number of decisions. The system should have no subjective elements or ambiguities; no room for "interpretation" or discretionary bets. If it does, the "system" is worthless (it's just guessing).

And to suggest that  playing "shoe after shoe after shoe" undermines the system is nonsense. How can the (or indeed, any) system be played any other way? "Quit when ahead" is one of those persistent myths so beloved by gamblers, who seem unable to comprehend just how absurdly illogical it is. If you have a real edge then playing 10 shoes one after the other will generate the same results as playing 1 shoe per day for 10 days. The edge has to be there before you start playing, it's not created by quitting when ahead.

I have a book that claim he place 60.000 bets with 1.7% house edge and 90% of times being ahead.
Also add reversals to that when you get more then a second chance to stay ahead of quit even.

Mike do you even know how such test is made, see my past reply from the book i suggest.
I could fix a digital copy for you and save you 100 Euro - if you want to read it.

There is several casino games with house edge below 1.7%.

Cheers

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 22, 2017, 11:18:51 AM
who wrote you have to get 2nd book to understand 3rd?

scaldecat said so. So it's not true?

Quote
re stopping when ahead, you got this wrong, ask any day trader, they will tell you that you HAVE TO STOP WHEN AHEAD. Gambling works the same as spread betting does. One must stop when ahead. It is as simple as that. Gamblers lose because they don't stop.

Day traders don't quit when they're ahead. They enter a trade when an opportunity arises and quit when circumstances are no longer favorable. That's not the same as creating an edge by quitting when ahead, which makes no sense. If a shoe presents favorable opportunities then you play, in which case you may well be playing "shoe after shoe after shoe". Do you see the difference?

Quote from: Sputnik on June 22, 2017, 02:22:42 PM
Mike do you even know how such test is made, see my past reply from the book i suggest.
I could fix a digital copy for you and save you 100 Euro - if you want to read it.

Sputnik,

I'm not sure what test you're talking about thanks for the offer. If I had the book I could do my own tests. So are you saying that Stephen's system is based on the same premise as that given in that book you mention? In which case why have your tests shown a negative result?

Quote from: alrelax on June 22, 2017, 12:08:54 PM
Steve why are you fighting and sparring with these people why don't you just let you work stand for what it is if you believe in it and those that believe in it will support it in my opinion.

It's not a question of fighting and sparring, but a question of EVIDENCE. Stephen has given no evidence that the system wins, other than his own claims and "testimonials" from a few others, which, as you have admitted yourself, are biased.

If it was just a question of "believing" in a system for it to actually work then the casinos would have gone out of business, lol.

Mike i am not saying that Tablone's strategy is based upon same principals. Mike i respect you and will send you a PM and when the times come and i visit London to play, maybe we could meet up :-)
I have no idea how he come to the conclusion to reach +3 units as win target and a loss limit with -6 units.

The book i am using as reference when i develop methods is based upon significant statistics that is free for any one to twist or apply in any given situation using any kind of strategy.
And as all selections method is the same no matter any given combination, so is the significant statistics in the book the truth about what expectation you can have after placing 60.000 placed bets with a house edge around 1.7% or lower.

Cheers

Quote from: Mike on June 22, 2017, 02:25:04 PM
scaldecat said so. So it's not true?

Day traders don't quit when they're ahead. They enter a trade when an opportunity arises and quit when circumstances are no longer favorable. That's not the same as creating an edge by quitting when ahead, which makes no sense. If a shoe presents favorable opportunities then you play, in which case you may well be playing "shoe after shoe after shoe". Do you see the difference?

1. 3rd covers 2nd system but there may not be all advise in 3rd as in 2nd, though since 3rd in based on 2nd then answer is yes, it does contain all that it needs to in that respect. But as I wrote not all basic advise which still is relevant.

2. I see your point with day trading in that it could run away in your favor therefore gain a lot more than you expected. Of course a stock, or currency can have what we in the biz call "big moves" whereas baccarat does not in the sense that progression is slow and the game is very tight 50/50 what of course you can also get to see long moves in your favor that would get you up say even 10+ unit wins ahead. The central idea you is when you've made your money, or made lets say some money whatever that 'some' is okay with you (bacc v spread betting) then it makes sense to TAKE the money, take the profit. Unless you take the profit while you have it the game could and often does change and you will lose it again. But I get your point Mike and I agree with most of what you write.

Quote from: Mike on June 22, 2017, 02:30:54 PM
Sputnik,

I'm not sure what test you're talking about thanks for the offer. If I had the book I could do my own tests. So are you saying that Stephen's system is based on the same premise as that given in that book you mention? In which case why have your tests shown a negative result?

??? :P :o

Quote from: Mike on June 22, 2017, 02:36:45 PM
It's not a question of fighting and sparring, but a question of EVIDENCE. Stephen has given no evidence that the system wins, other than his own claims and "testimonials" from a few others, which, as you have admitted yourself, are biased.

If it was just a question of "believing" in a system for it to actually work then the casinos would have gone out of business, lol.

Yes Mike you are correct I am not fighting with anyone. I'm only defending my ideas. I love debate. I don't have any idea why some people think this is a fight. I'm happy to answer any baccarat related questions but I really just ignore chat about most other things because we just get side tracked.

A.

Quote from: Sputnik on June 22, 2017, 02:41:19 PM
Mike i am not saying that Tablone's strategy is based upon same principals. Mike i respect you and will send you a PM and when the times come and i visit London to play, maybe we could meet up :-)
I have no idea how he come to the conclusion to reach +3 units as win target and a loss limit with -6 units.

The book i am using as reference when i develop methods is based upon significant statistics that is free for any one to twist or apply in any given situation using any kind of strategy.
And as all selections method is the same no matter any given combination, so is the significant statistics in the book the truth about what expectation you can have after placing 60.000 placed bets with a house edge around 1.7% or lower.

Cheers

Hi, Sputnik! how are you?
On other posts we tweaked the strategy a little bit. it's get out at 3- worse ways, and on shoes where it floats 1- 2- bck to break even and down again and back, it's get out at break even. Therefore unit wins or loses over the long run of testing mnay shoes will end up different. Nothing wrong in a little tweak.

Stephen Tabone i can run 100 real baccarat shoes and post both results and the particular shoes if you help me how to improve the strategy beyond what you wrote in the book (second edition).

This is how i understand the original rules in your book and posted at this topic.

1) You main aim is to reach +3 units win target and then continue to push for more (if we play 100 shoes or more) and if we fail we stop at +2 units if not getting higher results.
2) When we reach 35 to 40 hands and not reach our win target we aim to cut loses short and break even or stop at -1 -2 -3 units.
3) If we not reach rule (2) then we aim to reach win target +3 units or hit loss limit -6 units.

Is that correct or is it more to it ?

Cheers

Quote from: Sputnik on June 22, 2017, 04:56:48 PM
Stephen Tabone i can run 100 real baccarat shoes and post both results and the particular shoes if you help me how to improve the strategy beyond what you wrote in the book (second edition).

This is how i understand the original rules in your book and posted at this topic.

1) You main aim is to reach +3 units win target and then continue to push for more (if we play 100 shoes or more) and if we fail we stop at +2 units if not getting higher results.
2) When we reach 35 to 40 hands and not reach our win target we aim to cut loses short and break even or stop at -1 -2 -3 units.
3) If we not reach rule (2) then we aim to reach win target +3 units or hit loss limit -6 units.

Is that correct or is it more to it ?

Cheers

1)okay do this then, push for more than 3, so if 4 push for 5, if go back to 3 take 3, if goes 5, push for 6, if back to 5 take 5 and so on.

2) When we reach 35 to 40 hands and not reach our win target we aim to cut loses short and get out at break even
3. Worse shoes get out 3- as soon as you reach 3- IF BEFORE HALF WAY!

4) add up all Banker taxes, i.e. only add taxes where you won on bank not lost on bank!

btw, this has nothing to do with 3rd book, but is the tweak related to 2nd

what you should find is 50% shoes 3 or more + / say Av 5+ (being conservative) x 50 = 250+
30% break even / = 0
20% 3- / 25 x 3- =60-

total 100%

190+

less banker win 5% taxes, only pay taxes on banker wins / est 50- banker taxes over 100 shoes, therefore net + = 140

but idea was to get out 3+ per day, but okay run it as you wish shoe by shoes, though there is a difference.

Sorry guys for any confusion, misunderstandings, re my strategy, i may have assumed one element was a given/understood in my 2nd book, I've sent a number of you Private messages to clarify any misunderstanding relating to the mode of play of my strategy. Hope that helps change your results to see profits. If you are not sure about something Please send me a private message. Thanks. Stephen. 

Thanks Stephen, that sure made a difference when playing.
I got +26 units after 20 shoes and can feel the change when applying the new rules.

Cheers

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 22, 2017, 06:10:40 PM
Sorry guys for any confusion, misunderstandings, re my strategy, i may have assumed one element was a given/understood in my 2nd book, I've sent a number of you Private messages to clarify any misunderstanding relating to the mode of play of my strategy. Hope that helps change your results to see profits. If you are not sure about something Please send me a private message. Thanks. Stephen.

Stephen,

  I went back to your "book" and triple checked it for your "correction" to the system play that you have graciously PM'ed to me.   It wasn't in there at all and your "correction" changes the order of play in no small way, almost changing the complete element of the method!

  The obvious problem with the original 2nd edition system was the "Sporadic One" (with apologies to Ellis for that nomenclature).   Your "new" explanation does take some of that out of the equation.

  With that said, I believe I'll wait for Edition 3.0 to show up before doing any more testing or retesting of previous shoes.

  I WILL run the latest iteration of TUBS on any of the shoes that get posted by Alrelax as you seem to believe that my shoe history is suspect for some reason.  At least this way we'll have a valid, current live shoe to work with from time to time and as several of us have the system play in hand, we will be able to see if there are any problems between us.

  I'll save my further comments for a later date.

  AD

Thanks.

Quote from: ADulay on June 22, 2017, 06:56:32 PM
Stephen,

  I went back to your "book" and triple checked it for your "correction" to the system play that you have graciously PM'ed to me.   It wasn't in there at all and your "correction" changes the order of play in no small way, almost changing the complete element of the method!

  The obvious problem with the original 2nd edition system was the "Sporadic One" (with apologies to Ellis for that nomenclature).   Your "new" explanation does take some of that out of the equation.

  With that said, I believe I'll wait for Edition 3.0 to show up before doing any more testing or retesting of previous shoes.

  I WILL run the latest iteration of TUBS on any of the shoes that get posted by Alrelax as you seem to believe that my shoe history is suspect for some reason.  At least this way we'll have a valid, current live shoe to work with from time to time and as several of us have the system play in hand, we will be able to see if there are any problems between us.

  I'll save my further comments for a later date.

  AD

AD, I have 4 from last night and I am trying to close up soon and head to the casino tonight.  I will save them.  Will post them in the baccarat thread, no problem.  Thanks. I always mark the card up with "B" or "P" and I do it horizontal, if you want anything else, let me know.

Thanks for your help in this matter alrelax

this is what I suggest to those interested. though i don't watch / bet on live online baccarat, we choose one that is proper life online, we notes down the results, not playing or free money or real money just note down the results on a certain day/time we could take turns, just watch and take notes, min 6 deck shoes, then we will have stats upon which to test with. What do you say? If any one know an open online live dealer baccarat we could all view? Maybe one advertised from this site?

Try Black Orchid Casino.  They deal from a real 6 deck shoe.

John

Quote from: bacply on June 22, 2017, 10:45:48 PM
Try Black Orchid Casino.  They deal from a real 6 deck shoe.

John

do they have real person dealers? and can you view results without registering / depositing funds?

You can watch live baccarat on Betstreak.  >:D

Black orchid Casino has real live dealers, with real live shoes.  You must register but do not have to deposit funds.  You can play for free. In fact, in the USA you cannot deposit funds and play for real.   I would be happy to help test the system.
John

https://www.blackorchidcasino.com

I've already tested the system, it's for any other to test if they want to get some real shoe results from live dealer shoes,but thanks for your offer.

If anyone wants me to check their shoe results, 6 deck will do, please send here and I will check against TUBS and post scanned results. Please post your results horizontally like this BPBPBP rather than like this,
B
P
B
P ETC

I use TUBS all the time when I gamble and do leave the casino winning

when I play big I  use TUBS 3.0
3.0 will be out July
If you liked 3.0 (I know some of you don't but some do) You'll love 3.0 it's a game changer.

Seeing your passion on this forum I will go buy your book on Kindle. It will be my 5th purchase of a baccarat related book from Amazon. 🙄🙄  I have also bought 2 systems from Silverthorne and was also in a discussion with Elliot, the man himself the inventor of NOR, MvD etc etc.

I am of the considered opinion ( as also expressed by some on this forum more eloquently) that each system can only work in certain shoe type.  that's why I think Elliot has come up with so many systems and one has to go search for certain shoe types and apply different systems.

Effectively, it is play the trend as it reveals itself. And stay away during the random phase. If the shoe is showing rows of terrible 2s and 3s which normally kills most systems why must one be an unintelligent and bet against it as proposed by most systems that cannot defeat terrible 2s.l? In my early days  on this forum,  I bought a system, mastered it and went on a cruise ship with my junket. I quickly lost my credit following the system as I came up against several shoes in a row with distinct patterns of terrible 2s. The junket assistants looked at me in despair and at the end of the cruise asked me why She played so differently because the old Lungyeh would have made a killing from the distinct patterns.  Sigh! Life and all its wonders

Quote from: Lungyeh on June 23, 2017, 02:54:48 AM
If the shoe is showing rows of terrible 2s and 3s which normally kills most systems why must one be an unintelligent and bet against it as proposed by most systems that cannot defeat terrible 2s.l? In my early days  on this forum,  I bought a system, mastered it and went on a cruise ship with my junket. I quickly lost my credit following the system as I came up against several shoes in a row with distinct patterns of terrible 2s. The junket assistants looked at me in despair and at the end of the cruise asked me why She played so differently because the old Lungyeh would have made a killing from the distinct patterns.  Sigh! Life and all its wonders

Build your system around terrible 2s.   :cheer:  Use it as building block.

With the clarification from Stephen in the message and on this forum I redid the test and got a better result. The first 27 shoes are the same as the first test.

[attachimg=1]

Thanks
Baelog

Baelog can you send me a PM and explain how you play step by step, i have the book second edition and talk to Stephen about the new additional betting pattern.
But i am honest and can not get past that i am maybe up +25 units in the beginning and after that i hovering around even or encounter small loses.

I thinking to wait with more testing until third edition comes out.

Cheers

Quote from: Sputnik on June 23, 2017, 04:34:11 PM
Baelog can you send me a PM and explain how you play step by step, i have the book second edition and talk to Stephen about the new additional betting pattern.
But i am honest and can not get past that i am maybe up +25 units in the beginning and after that i hovering around even or encounter small loses.

I thinking to wait with more testing until third edition comes out.

Cheers

Hi Sputnik,

I will make a play by play explanation this weekend and PM it to you. I am stuck at work.

Baelog

Hi Baelog I too have the Kindle 2nd edition and Stephen sent me a PM yesterday for clarification but I want to make sure I I understand everything correctly. Can you please send me the same  PM  as well?

Thank you and have a good weekend.

Quote from: Smoothie on June 23, 2017, 07:40:24 PM
Hi Baelog I too have the Kindle 2nd edition and Stephen sent me a PM yesterday for clarification but I want to make sure I I understand everything correctly. Can you please send me the same  PM  as well?

Thank you and have a good weekend.

Hi, I sent you a PM to clarify

Quote from: Sputnik on June 23, 2017, 04:34:11 PM
Baelog can you send me a PM and explain how you play step by step, i have the book second edition and talk to Stephen about the new additional betting pattern.
But i am honest and can not get past that i am maybe up +25 units in the beginning and after that i hovering around even or encounter small loses.

I thinking to wait with more testing until third edition comes out.

Cheers

Hi, Sputnik, I sent you a PM

Quote from: ADulay on June 22, 2017, 06:56:32 PM
Stephen,

  I WILL run the latest iteration of TUBS on any of the shoes that get posted by Alrelax as you seem to believe that my shoe history is suspect for some reason.  At least this way we'll have a valid, current live shoe to work with from time to time and as several of us have the system play in hand, we will be able to see if there are any problems between us.

  AD

As promised here are the three shoes that Alrelax posted late yesterday with the results running "TUBS with mod" and using VDW as the control reference.

Shoe 1:
TUBS -3 with an early stop due to the rules.  It went +0 if run to the end of the shoe.
VDW +5 at hand 53 and at the end.

Shoe 2:
TUBS -4 with an early stop due to the rules.   It went -10 if run to the end of the shoe.
VDW +3 to the end of shoe.

Shoe 3:
TUBS -6 with an early stop due to the rules.   It went +0 to the end.
VDW was -2 mainly due to the unusually high number of "twos" in the shoe.   

Hope this helps somebody.

AD (You guys DID test these shoes, right?)

             

Quote from: ADulay on June 23, 2017, 09:16:49 PM

"At least this way we'll have a valid, current live shoe to work with.."

Valid? To be honest I believe only individual people can say if their own results are "valid" because no one can confirm with the shoe results are genuine and with all respect to anyone posting such results, even if they are genuine there will always be that element of doubt in the readers mind. Therefore it would be better for individuals to carry out there own checks.

I would just like to clarify and explain something about me defending my strategy. I have received PMs and emails from a number of members and readers of this forum (I'm not going to expose any names) stating that there are some members who are supporting a certain expensive workshop system and that the presence of my strategy is not welcome. People are telling me that there are efforts to make my strategy appear not to work. I do not know if this is true or not but I wanted to let everyone know that I am receiving this advise. I did not want to believe them but when I started reading posting telling me not to "fight" etc, I started to have second thoughts. I stared to feel 'warned off'

Quote from: ADulay on June 23, 2017, 09:16:49 PM
As promised here are the three shoes that Alrelax posted late yesterday with the results running "TUBS with mod" and using VDW as the control reference.

Shoe 1:
TUBS -3 with an early stop due to the rules.  It went +0 if run to the end of the shoe.
VDW +5 at hand 53 and at the end.

Shoe 2:
TUBS -4 with an early stop due to the rules.   It went -10 if run to the end of the shoe.
VDW +3 to the end of shoe.

Shoe 3:
TUBS -6 with an early stop due to the rules.   It went +0 to the end.
VDW was -2 mainly due to the unusually high number of "twos" in the shoe.   

Hope this helps somebody.

AD (You guys DID test these shoes, right?)

           

How do we know if these shoes results are even genuine? One minute “Alrelax” is attacking Stephen trying to silence him, the next minute his posting ugly shoes results!!! I smell a rat. From what I could read he never even bought a copy of the book! And suddenly he says the system does not work!!! It seems he’ll do/say anything to attack Stephen and his book, even if that means posting end results of shoes no one can see, or verify as being true and real. And even if they are real he could have selected the worst ones out of many. I mean if this were a court it would be a kangaroo court.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 23, 2017, 07:59:05 PM
Hi, I sent you a PM to clarify

Hi Stephen I got your PM and everything is clear now. Baelog please disregard my previous request.

Thank you Stephen! Looking forward to the 3rd edition.

Griff.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 23, 2017, 10:06:56 PM
I would just like to clarify and explain something about me defending my strategy. I have received PMs and emails from a number of members and readers of this forum (I'm not going to expose any names) stating that there are some members who are supporting a certain expensive workshop system and that the presence of my strategy is not welcome. People are telling me that there are efforts to make my strategy appear not to work. I do not know if this is true or not but I wanted to let everyone know that I am receiving this advise. I did not want to believe them but when I started reading posting telling me not to "fight" etc, I started to have second thoughts. I stared to feel 'warned off'

I agree Stephen, one minute they say it works and then there are some who do not like you because they support the $700 workshop so they are discrediting your system because your book is cheap compared to that $700 a workshop that people have lost money on. And so they are attacking you by posting fake shoe results. There must be a gang of them working to run you and people like you down so as to support the $700 workshop.

Quote from: Smoothie on June 23, 2017, 10:33:39 PM
Hi Stephen I got your PM and everything is clear now. Baelog please disregard my previous request.

Thank you Stephen! Looking forward to the 3rd edition.

Griff.

okay great

Quote from: gizmo26 on June 23, 2017, 10:25:50 PM
How do we know if these shoes results are even genuine? One minute "Alrelax" is attacking Stephen trying to silence him, the next minute his posting ugly shoes results!!! I smell a rat. From what I could read he never even bought a copy of the book! And suddenly he says the system does not work!!! It seems he'll do/say anything to attack Stephen and his book, even if that means posting end results of shoes no one can see, or verify as being true and real. And even if they are real he could have selected the worst ones out of many. I mean if this were a court it would be a kangaroo court.

You are absolutely wrong.  I never said any verdict about his book, i don't subscribe to or use 'systems'.  I only asked him not to spar with people about his book.  I did feel he was preaching 'in and above' his book for sales--but so be it.  I am not attacking Stephen or his book.  My whole beef in the beginning was to get him to sponsor the board for selling a commercial item, we have already been through all that.

As far as the shoes posted, those shoes are absolute real live shoes and if you play enough you will see easy, hard, ugly and very pretty, LOL.  Seriously, not time to throw this all on me, not by any chance.   

And when i said the other day to Stephen, 'please don't fight or spar' with members, i was attempting to keep Stephen neutral in my own way.  If you have a good or great product, it will speak for itself, IMO.  I have no problem with Stephen and I don't think he feels that I do...???? 

What is this $700 workshop.....I didn't have time to read all the posts.

Quote from: 8OR9 on June 23, 2017, 10:45:05 PM
What is this $700 workshop.....I didn't have time to read all the posts.

some have written to me on email and chat referring to a $700 workshop somewhere

Quote from: alrelax on June 23, 2017, 10:39:29 PM
And when i said the other day to Stephen, 'please don't fight or spar' with members, i was attempting to keep Stephen neutral in my own way.  If you have a good or great product, it will speak for itself, IMO.  I have no problem with Stephen and I don't think he feels that I do...????

What is wrong you man! Why do you see everything Stephen writes as a "fight" as I read, his only defending aspects of his strategy? He has the right to. You keep popping up like a crow with no food; a mixture of hoarse or grating coos, caws, rattles, and clicks, they are annoying to read and only get in the way the debate. I know you appear on almost every thread but please for once can you just give it a rest for once and allow Stephen to get on and debate with Mike and the others. Sorry I get the feeling you always want the limelight

Quote from: gizmo26 on June 23, 2017, 10:51:05 PM
What is wrong you man! Why do you see everything Stephen writes as a "fight" as I read, his only defending aspects of his strategy? He has the right to. You keep popping up like a crow with no food; a mixture of hoarse or grating coos, caws, rattles, and clicks, they are annoying to read and only get in the way the debate. I know you appear on almost every thread but please for once can you just give it a rest for once and allow Stephen to get on and debate with Mike and the others. Sorry I get the feeling you always want the limelight

I don't know what to say. I'm trying to stick to strategies and gambling chat really.

Whatever mark in Sandy Oregon I'm done I will not post on the board no more.  by the way did you repay the money you took from the other members for all your research and all the failure and the gambling you've done I got some concrete evidence that you did not but not my deal. You just have a habit of telling damn half-truths and making SPars Like a soap opera. I'm done.

do you know this man Alrelax? does he owe u money?

a close friend of mine on this board and I have copies of the emails the driver's license number the Bank wiring information and all of the emails for several months and it's very explicit and very clear and it's more or less just a con job but he wants to flip everything to me like I'm the a****** whatever I'm on the way to the casino have a nice night I'll email you some stuff tomorrow Stephen and you'll see what I'm talking about I have your personal email we've exchanged some pictures in emails thank you

and I'm telling you absolute truth I put it on my little four year olds life I know what I'm talking about is absolute hundred percent truth swear to God over my parents and my little boy.

personally i never lend or borrow money as a rule but people in casinos mostly those who ask everyone for money ask me for money too. I give hem a few pounds but as a gift not a loan because i don't want to chase them and don't want to keep lending even if they do pay back. It's against casino rules to go around asking people to lend money. They can get banned. They try and bum off of VIPs too free food drinks etc.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 23, 2017, 09:57:50 PM
Valid? To be honest I believe only individual people can say if their own results are "valid" because no one can confirm with the shoe results are genuine and with all respect to anyone posting such results, even if they are genuine there will always be that element of doubt in the readers mind. Therefore it would be better for individuals to carry out there own checks.

Stephen,

  The reason I have played those three shoes from Alrelaz, you know, the obvious fake ones that he put a lot of time and effort in to make them look "real", well they are all available for anyone to use for TESTING of various system plays, not just yours.

  If several of us use them and come up with wildly different results, then some of us are on the wrong track with regards to your play.

  If the people who have purchased/received your play want to test it out and their results are similar, then we'll be in agreement.

  Why would anyone believe that the recently posted shoes from Alrelax are not real?

  I'm not trying to bash you or your play, I'm just playing it for others to make up their own mind about it.

  Why I'm spending this much time on a play I'll never use is beyond me.  I must be having a boring week or something.   However, it is fun running something different for a change.

  AD

Quote from: ADulay on June 24, 2017, 01:49:47 AM
Stephen,

  The reason I have played those three shoes from Alrelaz, you know, the obvious fake ones that he put a lot of time and effort in to make them look "real", well they are all available for anyone to use for TESTING of various system plays, not just yours.

  If several of us use them and come up with wildly different results, then some of us are on the wrong track with regards to your play.

  If the people who have purchased/received your play want to test it out and their results are similar, then we'll be in agreement.

  Why would anyone believe that the recently posted shoes from Alrelax are not real?

  I'm not trying to bash you or your play, I'm just playing it for others to make up their own mind about it.

  Why I'm spending this much time on a play I'll never use is beyond me.  I must be having a boring week or something.   However, it is fun running something different for a change.

  AD

I see your point. And I know as I wrote I've received emails and PMs from people and read posts here re shoe results from a member referring to this issue that they might or might not be fake/made up or whatever, but I can't comment really. I am personalty not making any accusations since I cannot prove anything in this respect so it's pointless to even think about it. I think the bottom line is that each person should test strategy using his/her own shoe results that were recorded by those persons. Since then they will then at least know that their results are true having taken them down themselves. While I value your time I think the best way for everyone to move forward is to try any system (not just mine) using results they themselves have noted otherwise we end up in this kind of stance where people start to doubt/believe or get personal. I have PM'ed Alrelax to take it easy and continue to post in this and other threads and I hope he continues to do so. I give him my full support in this respect.     

I deleted the shoes, nothing to worry about, the fake shoes are gone now.  Ok?

Quote from: alrelax on June 24, 2017, 05:02:20 AM
I deleted the shoes, nothing to worry about, the fake shoes are gone now.  Ok?

1. Other members PM'ed me, emailed me re the mob. I do not know if the mob is real, or true
2. Alrelax posted three shoe results, he had the right to, but members, readers will always have doubts, they have this right too. For me the shoes were bad against my strategy though that said using Martingale the results show that my strategy is still strong.
3.I do not believe that Alreax set out to damage me re the three shoes he posted. Though I stand by the advise for readers to check their own results. Why this makes sense is that while Alreax shoes may be real true, others could post fake ones. I think Alreax would agree on this point. And this is not to say that his are fake. When I wrote what others advised me I was only putting it out there, not to say this is so with Alraex' results.
4. My novel The Godfifa, though not perfect was a first novella I wrote a long time ago. It was an experimental work. Tough there is one bad review on it, there are good points in that review too and reviewer wanted to read the next book. Please read the review for yourselves.
5. I do not know Alraex from Adam, therefore I have no beef with him. His entitled to his opinion and his blog. I know that he has mentioned to me a lot on his other posts and threads. I can't stop him from doing that but I don't like to refer to non gambling related topics for the most part. I never delete my posts and within which I seldom write outside of gambling related topics. I hope he'll adopt this stance too. I don't mind if he PMs me and calls me whatever he likes I can take it but besides this doing live on the forum does not help the forum or other readers who come here for information.
6. I am sorry this whole thing has gotten out of hand somewhat and I hope it stops because I get no satisfaction in it. I like to read what others write about gambling related topics, strategies, casino life and the like.
7. I'm sorry if I had upset you. I did not mean to.

Dear all,

I really don't understand the accusations against Alrelax re fake games. I know him well enough to stand up for him to say to those who accuse him so 'stop the nonsense'

Why should he bother to make up fake results to disprove some book? When in reality there are all kinds of possible shoes that will kill a system one way or the other. As someone who has idiotically bought a few such systems (including BAT from Silverthorne) and in discussions wit Elliot himself on MvD etc etc there are always games that don't work well for ANY systems.

If you choose to believe there are holy grail systems that can handle ALL kinds of games please continue your faith. But please. Cut the accusation that Alrelax would do such a thing to post fake results.

From my @15 years Baccarat experience and research and experimentation including funding others for tests, I can say Alrelax has been one whose posts are factual, stimulating although sometimes, some may find it cocky at best and condescending at worst. But never, no, posting fake results. Please don't talk nonsense.

Quote from: Lungyeh on June 24, 2017, 10:36:58 PM
Dear all,

I really don't understand the accusations against Alrelax re fake games. I know him well enough to stand up for him to say to those who accuse him so 'stop the nonsense'

Why should he bother to make up fake results to disprove some book? When in reality there are all kinds of possible shoes that will kill a system one way or the other. As someone who has idiotically bought a few such systems (including BAT from Silverthorne) and in discussions wit Elliot himself on MvD etc etc there are always games that don't work well for ANY systems.

If you choose to believe there are holy grail systems that can handle ALL kinds of games please continue your faith. But please. Cut the accusation that Alrelax would do such a thing to post fake results.

From my @15 years Baccarat experience and research and experimentation including funding others for tests, I can say Alrelax has been one whose posts are factual, stimulating although sometimes, some may find it cocky at best and condescending at worst. But never, no, posting fake results. Please don't talk nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6tR78d0cmA

Quote from: Lungyeh on June 24, 2017, 10:36:58 PM
Dear all,

I really don't understand the accusations against Alrelax re fake games. I know him well enough to stand up for him to say to those who accuse him so 'stop the nonsense'

Why should he bother to make up fake results to disprove some book? When in reality there are all kinds of possible shoes that will kill a system one way or the other. As someone who has idiotically bought a few such systems (including BAT from Silverthorne) and in discussions wit Elliot himself on MvD etc etc there are always games that don't work well for ANY systems.

If you choose to believe there are holy grail systems that can handle ALL kinds of games please continue your faith. But please. Cut the accusation that Alrelax would do such a thing to post fake results.

From my @15 years Baccarat experience and research and experimentation including funding others for tests, I can say Alrelax has been one whose posts are factual, stimulating although sometimes, some may find it cocky at best and condescending at worst. But never, no, posting fake results. Please don't talk nonsense.

Alrelax may not like this but I agree with everything Lungyeh just said. Glen does not lie about his playing method and does not need to. He's really a good player, perhaps one of the best.

Quote from: Sputnik on June 22, 2017, 06:17:46 PM
Thanks Stephen, that sure made a difference when playing.
I got +26 units after 20 shoes and can feel the change when applying the new rules.

Cheers

Sputnik I'm informed you're on btc slagging off my book. It's not enough for you to lave me meg review, you are part of the mob, my ppl are telling me. I have eyes and ears everywhere.

Dear Stephan,

You are either stupid or an ordinary cheater.

I read your book. Rubbish. You spend 20 years of research to come up with this book.  :nope:
Your method seems to work sometimes. But If I close my eyes and play, I can win sometimes. It means that winning is primarily a matter of luck. Gambling is not beatable: at the long term, every one lose.  With money and time management, you can limit your lose, but you will lose.   

You are only here to sell your book. Otherwise, I don't understand why you are here. You claimed that you can easily win 3 units in a casino (£800). I am not sure whether you have enough money to gamble. In only couple of months, there are more editions of your book. Strange.

My recommendation is to every one: don't ever buy this kind of books. It is even better not to gamble. GAMBLING IS NOT BEATABLE.

Quote from: Mido on June 24, 2017, 11:46:04 PM
Dear Stephan,

You are either stupid or an ordinary cheater.

I read your book. Rubbish. You spend 20 years of research to come up with this book.  :nope:
Your method seems to work sometimes. But If I close my eyes and play, I can win sometimes. It means that winning is primarily a matter of luck. Gambling is not beatable: at the long term, every one lose.  With money and time management, you can limit your lose, but you will lose.   

You are only here to sell your book. Otherwise, I don't understand why you are here. You claimed that you can easily win 3 units in a casino (£800). I am not sure whether you have enough money to gamble. In only couple of months, there are more editions of your book. Strange.

My recommendation is to every one: don't ever buy this kind of books. It is even better not to gamble. GAMBLING IS NOT BEATABLE.

Read carefully, new member whoever you are, you are the "stupid" one. You bought nothing, you are dreaming. Read...
You come on here claiming to be a new member who bought my book and to slag me off and say I'm a cheater, let others judge when they read below.  31+ and counting, now shame yourself whoever you are...shame on you.

Despite the three bad shoes posted. I have gone through and applied my strategy, and here are the results:

(Note: Not every result is bet on as in the rules of my strategy)

Shoe one: 1-,2-,3- but if kept playing as follows, 2-, 1-, break even (BE), 1+, BE, 1+, BE, 1-, BE, 1-, 2-, 1-, BE, 1+, 2+, 3+ up to result number 32 on 1st shoe. / now to the end of the shoe: 4+, 3+, 2+, 1+, BE, 1-, BE, 1-, BE, 1+, 2+, 1+,BE, 1+, 2+, 1+, 2+, 3+, 2+, 1+ (max + is 3+ about half way and again towards the end, so if kept playing from start would have got out half way point 3+

Shoe two: 1-, 2-, 1-, 2-, 3-, 2-, 1-, BE, 1+, BE, 1+, BE, 1+, BE, 1-, BE, 1-, 2-, 3-, 2-, 1-, 2-, 1-, 2-, 3-, 2-, 1-, 2-, 1-, 2-, 3-, 2-, 3-, up to result number 51 / now to the end of the shoe: 4-, 3-, 4-, 5-, 6-, 7-, 8- By half way you'd have to stop. Half way on this show would be approx 1-

Shoe number three: 1+, BE, 1-, 2-, 1-, 2-, 1-, BE, 1-, BE, 1-, 2-, 1-, 2-, 1- 2-, 3-, 4-, 3-, 4-, 5-, 6-, 5-, 4-, 5-, 4-, 3-, 2-, 1-, 2-, 1-, BE, 1-, BE, 1+, 2+, 3+, 2+, 3+, 4+ end of shoe. / either you would have took the hit 3- or if carried on you would have eneded up 4+

Proof if anything that despite these bad shoes my strategy holds its own and therefore is the most powerful strategy ever! (Save that when 3.0 if published it will rock the casinos)

*NOW FOR THE MARVEL OF THE BACCARAT WORLD
Shoe one:
With Martingale incorporated.

As follows. 1-, (bet 2) lose = 3- (bet 4), lose = 7- (bet 8 ) win = 16 subtract 7- = 9+,10+,11+,12+, 11+, (bet 2) win 8 = 19+, 20+, 19+, (bet 2) lose 18+, (bet 4) win 4 = 22+ 21+, (bet 2) lose = 19+ (bet 4) win = 27+, 28+, 29+, 30+, 31+

Up to result number 32

What more do you want! And the wins just get better. My strategy is the best in the world. Baccarat cracked! Work it out for yourselves!!

Read carefully, you are the "stupid" one. You bought nothing, you are dreaming.

.

.

Quote from: Baelog on June 23, 2017, 04:17:20 PM
With the clarification from Stephen in the message and on this forum I redid the test and got a better result. The first 27 shoes are the same as the first test.

[attachimg=1]

Thanks
Baelog

Since we are mentioning progression. This result would hold up to Soxfans progression without busting once.

Baelog

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 24, 2017, 11:49:12 PM
Proof if anything that despite these bad shoes my strategy holds its own and therefore is the most powerful strategy ever!

It seems that you've revised the strategy in response to those "bad" shoes, and now it turns out they weren't really bad shoes after all!

I'm not saying that you're necessarily cheating deliberately, but this happens all the time on gambling forums. Here's the pattern, which is an endless loop:

1. System is published on the forum.
2. Members test and find weaknesses
3. System is tweaked to plug the gaps.
4 GOTO 1

The trouble is that in a negative expectation game, whatever you do and however many extra tweaks  are introduced, there is always a nemesis. All you're doing with the tweaks is changing the nemesis. It's endless. All the patterns and progressions, all the win targets and loss limits do absolutely nothing to change this.

So although your tweaks have resulted in a win for those particular shoes, there will as a consequence be a shoe pattern which has been newly added to the "bad" shoe list! Before the tweak, those shoes might well have been winners. It's easy to find the nemesis for any baccarat system because all you have to do is invent a sequence of outcomes which make it lose. Then ask yourself, "what is the chance that this pattern will actually occur?". Whatever that chance is, it's the same for ANY pattern of the same length. This fact has devastating consequences for the possibility of creating a winning system.

For short: we always find shoes at his foot .

Quote from: Mike on June 25, 2017, 08:17:48 AM
It seems that you've revised the strategy in response to those "bad" shoes, and now it turns out they weren't really bad shoes after all!

I'm not saying that you're necessarily cheating deliberately, but this happens all the time on gambling forums. Here's the pattern, which is an endless loop:

1. System is published on the forum.
2. Members test and find weaknesses
3. System is tweaked to plug the gaps.
4 GOTO 1

The trouble is that in a negative expectation game, whatever you do and however many extra tweaks  are introduced, there is always a nemesis. All you're doing with the tweaks is changing the nemesis. It's endless. All the patterns and progressions, all the win targets and loss limits do absolutely nothing to change this.

So although your tweaks have resulted in a win for those particular shoes, there will as a consequence be a shoe pattern which has been newly added to the "bad" shoe list! Before the tweak, those shoes might well have been winners. It's easy to find the nemesis for any baccarat system because all you have to do is invent a sequence of outcomes which make it lose. Then ask yourself, "what is the chance that this pattern will actually occur?". Whatever that chance is, it's the same for ANY pattern of the same length. This fact has devastating consequences for the possibility of creating a winning system.

without the Martingale incorporation, which is not a tweak i would go with btw, my strategy holds its own, in that when it is down it is less down the most gamblers betting baccarat are down playing their own way. If a player encountered a three shoes using my strategy he'd be confident that other shoes will present that would get any loses back and see profits. This is because I checked 10,000 shoes, I have seen how the points I wrote about in my book means that there are no two ways about it. My strategy in my 2nd book is the strongest because it 1. protects the bettor from major loses, and 2. it runs with profits on good and great shoes and 3. it allows the bettor to know when to bet again following riding out the bad waves. 4. when there are bad shoes this is only because there are double or treble waves following triggers. But this does not happen often in shoes and where it does occur though loses are a give, those loses will be manageable within bettors bankroll and are only pat of the overall + and - report. Over the longer term which I suggested in my book a bettor should be concentrating on, gambler of baccarat in using my strategy will see profits. This is because though when he is not betting, there are thousands of shoes being played all over the world, he is not pat of them, his objective it is hit and run with profits over a few shoes. To do want you want to do,i.e. play shoe infinite is impossible and madness. Computer generated results will never match the real dealer dealt cards are machine shuffled cards because within the program there's a bias. There's a bias that the banker has the edge so the program works to this rule. There are other biases. I've seen countless shoes in casinos where Player has the edge over Banker over a number of shoes in a row. Because the computer generated results is a "program" this means it has been "programed" thus the element of real randomness does not work because aspects of the its DNA like the greedy gambler will never allow it to replicate casino shuffled cards.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 25, 2017, 02:18:29 PM
To do want you want to do,i.e. play shoe infinite is impossible and madness. Computer generated results will never match the real dealer dealt cards are machine shuffled cards because within the program there's a bias. There's a bias that the banker has the edge so the program works to this rule.

Stephen,

You seem to have a lot of misconceptions regarding computer programming and simulations. Since in the other thread you said you tested the system over 10,000 shoes, it seems you do realize the value of "long term" testing, but then you went on to say (again) that the system was never designed to be played over that many shoes! Why then did you bother?

Since the outcome of all those shoes was presumably positive, there is no contradiction between long term testing and the "hit and run"  approach you advocate. Why, then, do you object to computer testing? Is it because of the nature of the hands generated? or is it because you think a computer can't make the kinds of decisions a human can?

If it's the latter, you're wrong. A program is just a list of instructions given to a computer, so if you can tell a person how to play the system without ambiguity, you can tell a computer how to do the same. The only difference is that the computer has much more discipline and patience than any person.

You'd have been much better off investing the time it took to test over those 10,000 shoes in learning how to program computers to do it for you.

Quote from: Mike on June 25, 2017, 04:16:12 PM
Stephen,

You seem to have a lot of misconceptions regarding computer programming and simulations. Since in the other thread you said you tested the system over 10,000 shoes, it seems you do realize the value of "long term" testing, but then you went on to say (again) that the system was never designed to be played over that many shoes! Why then did you bother?

Since the outcome of all those shoes was presumably positive, there is no contradiction between long term testing and the "hit and run"  approach you advocate. Why, then, do you object to computer testing? Is it because of the nature of the hands generated? or is it because you think a computer can't make the kinds of decisions a human can?

If it's the latter, you're wrong. A program is just a list of instructions given to a computer, so if you can tell a person how to play the system without ambiguity, you can tell a computer how to do the same. The only difference is that the computer has much more discipline and patience than any person.

You'd have been much better off investing the time it took to test over those 10,000 shoes in learning how to program computers to do it for you.

I test all my strategies over thousand of real casino shoes, because I am looking to go beyond the peak into the climb. Though as I wrote this cannot be achieved within shorter waves. No gambler can play hundreds of shoes non stop. When s/he breaks to rest shoes go on and on without him/her being there. The hit and run method means that /she enters the smaller waves hopefully on an up and gets out. If they experience a low at start of game 2.1 deals with this and many other aspects.   

I have already answered you re computer generated. I am not going to give away more information in this respect beyond what I have already stated. And to answer your second point, a computer cannot apply all the rules of my strategy in its entirety. The 10,000 shoe results I noted or on my computer and spread sheet I know all aspects of every single shoe. I gathered the results over 20 years from various casinos. They are fundamentally different in the way they present because they are real and not instructed to look real.

With respect Mike, this subject cannot disprove my strategy. It seems more based on greed and the worship of computers over human brain power. Remember a human invented computers and computers advance all the time because they have weaknesses like we all do. But the brain is more powerful, https://www.sciencealert.com/your-brain-is-still-30-times-more-powerful-than-the-best-supercomputers more supplicated than any computer or computer program that is made up of rules that are concrete. The mind has imagination and systemises. A computer program cannot think outside the box, a human can Mike.

It's mind over matter Mike, and I am that Mind Mike.  O:-) as you're learning from me all the time. 

I don't know why you keep mentioning greed because it's totally irrelevant. You admit yourself that a system needs to be tested over a large number of shoes in order to see how it holds up in the long run, and you have done this for your system, but that has nothing to do with "greed". So I think we're on the same page here.

QuoteAnd to answer your second point, a computer cannot apply all the rules of my strategy in its entirety. ...The mind has imagination and systemises. A computer program cannot think outside the box, a human can Mike.

I read this a lot and it's a specious argument. It probably comes from a lack of understanding of computers and programming. Of course a computer can apply ALL the rules of your strategy. This is so because it's a one-to-one mapping from the rules which you would give to another person to the rules a person would give to a computer, and if you can't explain the rules clearly to another person then it can't be "explained" to a computer either. A computer doesn't NEED to have imagination or think outside the box; it just needs to be given clear instructions. Understand? The only "rules" that a computer can't follow are precognition or perhaps "intuition". But then if your system relies on intuition in order to win then it's not a system, is it?

Quoteas you're learning from me all the time. 

lol, you flatter yourself. I've seen all these "arguments" many times from system sellers, and if you think members here will fall for it you're insulting their intelligence.

Quote from: Mike on June 25, 2017, 06:11:08 PM
I don't know why you keep mentioning greed because it's totally irrelevant. You admit yourself that a system needs to be tested over a large number of shoes in order to see how it holds up in the long run, and you have done this for your system, but that has nothing to do with "greed". So I think we're on the same page here.

I read this a lot and it's a specious argument. It probably comes from a lack of understanding of computers and programming. Of course a computer can apply ALL the rules of your strategy. This is so because it's a one-to-one mapping from the rules which you would give to another person to the rules a person would give to a computer, and if you can't explain the rules clearly to another person then it can't be "explained" to a computer either. A computer doesn't NEED to have imagination or think outside the box; it just needs to be given clear instructions. Understand? The only "rules" that a computer can't follow are precognition or perhaps "intuition". But then if your system relies on intuition in order to win then it's not a system, is it?

lol, you flatter yourself. I've seen all these "arguments" many times from system sellers, and if you think members here will fall for it you're insulting their intelligence.

Okay
1. my system does not reply on intuition, save that someone farts in a casino you might lose a bet by getting out of the way!
2. If no system works for you  and you don't believe in them then can I ask what are you doing here save to wind people up?
3. Members, not all but most and readers guests of and to this site are here for information for the most part and shall make up their own minds. Just because you are a disbeliever it does not follow that all will agree with you. If you can prove that no system works, go and write a book on it, I'm sure it will be a best seller!
4. Since you do believe that I know sweet F A, then don't waste your energy and mine by engaging with me. Clearly you have already made up your mind about what I think. Therefore we are at deadlock and it is thus pointless communicating.  :bye:
5. At the end of the day a system is a rule or set of rules explaining how the author of it plays to win. If people want to know how he does it then that is up to them. If other people like yourself do not believe in systems or have your own way of playing (i.e. your own system) then stick to that, why on earth would you want to condemn another persons system! If I don't like how someone chews his/her food, i.e. some people do it with their mouth open I move away from them, look away. I don't try and convince them to stop because I you don't like it. If it works for them then it works for them. I used  get this all the time, I used to get it from people like you in casinos which is why I seldom talk to certain kinds of people in casinos these days. Even when I was winning they were either telling me I was lucky, meaning that it was not the system but some kind of chance as if I played randomly. Then I got those that hoped I would lose so that they could say ''I told you so'. Now I get some of the same people either asking me to borrow them some money or asking me how my strategies work. As  for the latter I don't promote my strategies in casinos. When I go to a casino I go to eat in the restaurant, win some money and get out of there.

If anyone is interested in my book you can click on the link below for the best discount currently available.
2,1 and 3.0 will be out soon. Each book has new information, 3.0 is very advanced too advanced for some people that do not believe in systems! PM me if you're interested in any of my current books, or future books. 3.0 will be my last book in the baccarat series of "The Ultimate Baccarat Strategy..TUBS

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 25, 2017, 07:06:29 PM
2. If no system works for you  and you don't believe in them then can I ask what are you doing here save to wind people up?

Partly, to challenge people like you who make absurd unsubstantiated claims and sell systems. If that's "winding people up", then guilty as charged.  :thumbsup:

Quote3. Members, not all but most and readers guests of and to this site are here for information for the most part and shall make up their own minds. Just because you are a disbeliever it does not follow that all will agree with you. If you can prove that no system works, go and write a book on it, I'm sure it will be a best seller!

Most gamblers are innumerate and have little clue about how to judge the merit of a system. That seems to apply to you also, since you're apparently unaware of what "negative expectation" means. It means (PROVES) that no system works because outcomes are random and the payoff is less than it would be if the game were fair (100% return). No book is necessary, just a simple mathematical equation.

Quote4. Since you do believe that I know sweet F A, then don't waste your energy and mine by engaging with me. Clearly you have already made up your mind about what I think. Therefore we are at deadlock and it is thus pointless communicating.  :bye:

Many members post systems here and on other forums. I don't have a problem with that because most of the time they're just sharing ideas. But when someone makes outrageous and misleading claims and is also selling a system, that's overstepping the mark in my opinion. It may be that they truly believe that they have something remarkable and are not simply scamming, so I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, but if they become  evasive in response to questioning and resort to personal attacks, it tends to cast doubt on their integrity, don't you think? You do know fraud is a crime for which people can and do go to prison, don't you?

Quote5. At the end of the day a system is a rule or set of rules explaining how the author of it plays to win. If people want to know how he does it then that is up to them. If other people like yourself do not believe in systems or have your own way of playing (i.e. your own system) then stick to that, why on earth would you want to condemn another persons system!

Because in this case you're making ridiculous claims for it and are also charging for it. You say "believe in systems" as though it's just a matter of opinion whether systems can work or not, as if there's no proof either way, like believing in God perhaps. It's an extraordinary claim you're making, much more remarkable than Ed Thorp's discovery that card counting could be used to beat Blackjack. That changed Blackjack in casinos the world over; has your book changed Baccarat? I don't think so.

Look, if you really had something even remotely like you claim then you wouldn't be piddling around in the dark corners of the web trying to sell a kindle book for £10! Get real! You would have much bigger fish to fry.

But of course, people will have to make up their own mind.  :)

Quote from: Mike on June 26, 2017, 09:11:28 AM
Partly, to challenge people like you who make absurd unsubstantiated claims and sell systems. If that's "winding people up", then guilty as charged.  :thumbsup:

Most gamblers are innumerate and have little clue about how to judge the merit of a system. That seems to apply to you also, since you're apparently unaware of what "negative expectation" means. It means (PROVES) that no system works because outcomes are random and the payoff is less than it would be if the game were fair (100% return). No book is necessary, just a simple mathematical equation.

Many members post systems here and on other forums. I don't have a problem with that because most of the time they're just sharing ideas. But when someone makes outrageous and misleading claims and is also selling a system, that's overstepping the mark in my opinion. It may be that they truly believe that they have something remarkable and are not simply scamming, so I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, but if they become  evasive in response to questioning and resort to personal attacks, it tends to cast doubt on their integrity, don't you think? You do know fraud is a crime for which people can and do go to prison, don't you?

Because in this case you're making ridiculous claims for it and are also charging for it. You say "believe in systems" as though it's just a matter of opinion whether systems can work or not, as if there's no proof either way, like believing in God perhaps. It's an extraordinary claim you're making, much more remarkable than Ed Thorp's discovery that card counting could be used to beat Blackjack. That changed Blackjack in casinos the world over; has your book changed Baccarat? I don't think so.

Look, if you really had something even remotely like you claim then you wouldn't be piddling around in the dark corners of the web trying to sell a kindle book for £10! Get real! You would have much bigger fish to fry.

But of course, people will have to make up their own mind.  :)

GOOD, then why don't you attack ever system author? Probably cos one, most of their claims stand up like matchstick and are not here to be scrutinised. Unlike me who back his up because it works. The sun has a system it rises from the east and sets in the west. You want to say that the earth is flat and there is no sun, it's a touch in the sky and there is no universe, save that you're the centre of it!
Quote
3. Members, not all but most and readers guests of and to this site are here for information for the most part and shall make up their own minds. Just because you are a disbeliever it does not follow that all will agree with you. If you can prove that no system works, go and write a book on it, I'm sure it will be a best seller!

Most gamblers are innumerate and have little clue about how to judge the merit of a system.
I say: I say: So you're even attacking all members now.
That seems to apply to you also, since you're apparently unaware of what "negative expectation" means. It means (PROVES) that no system works because outcomes are random and the payoff is less than it would be if the game were fair (100% return). No book is necessary, just a simple mathematical equation.
I say: I've covered this above, you're repeating. Yarn

Many members post systems here and on other forums. I don't have a problem with that because most of the time they're just sharing ideas. But when someone makes outrageous and misleading claims and is also selling a system, that's overstepping the mark in my opinion.
I say: I'm a sponsor
It may be that they truly believe that they have something remarkable and are not simply scamming, so I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, but if they become  evasive in response to questioning and resort to personal attacks, it tends to cast doubt on their integrity, don't you think? You do know fraud is a crime for which people can and do go to prison, don't you?
I say: I have answered your questions but I am not going to roll in the dirt with you. If you want to sue me then good luck with that!

Because in this case you're making ridiculous claims for it and are also charging for it.

I say: again, I'm a sponsor

You say "believe in systems" as though it's just a matter of opinion whether systems can work or not, as if there's no proof either way, like believing in God perhaps. It's an extraordinary claim you're making, much more remarkable than Ed Thorp's discovery that card counting could be used to beat Blackjack. That changed Blackjack in casinos the world over; has your book changed Baccarat? I don't think so.

I say: you may not think so but others do and as you said yourself it's a matter of opinion then therefore it's a matter whether people believe in and use it. You don't have to but other may.

Look, if you really had something even remotely like you claim then you wouldn't be piddling around in the dark corners of the web trying to sell a kindle book for £10! Get real! You would have much bigger fish to fry.

I say: I'm piddling around everywhere on the web or will be. This site is not a dark corner, that's an insult to this site forum and members of it! Cost of my books will rise therefore I'd advise members to click on the link below and take advantage of the current offer. 2.1 and 3.0 will cost a lot more save that members on this site will be offered discounts.Plus I am not affiliated with any online casino gambling where I receive commission on people's deposits and or loses. Therefore I am not a scammer! I state this in my books. There are lots of scammers out there Mike you needs not look far if you want to challenge them but I'm only selling my opinion, my research, my ideas, my advances into winning at baccarat If you don't like it you know what to do. I'm not selling a $1,000 dollar workshop in Vegas and then take people to casinos to lose and where the person running it receives commission from the casinos due to the people's loses he took there. I'm selling books Mike and as you wrote at a very reasonable price too.

But of course, people will have to make up their own mind.   

I say: yes precisely, their mind is not your mind, you're not happy, do not believe in systems, modes of play even though everything in nature from atoms to the way you think is based on systems and we live in a solar system! But no, you don't believe in systems Mike. 

Ok Stephen, I'm sure all prospective purchasers of your current book would like to know what the result was of your tests over 10,000 Baccarat shoes, so how many bets did you actually make in those shoes and what was the final profit?

And by the way, you keep saying "I'm a sponsor" as if that gives you some kind of right to make nonsense claims with impunity. I think you should read Autobetic's first post. He's a sponsor too, but unlike you he does understand that Baccarat can't be beaten in the long run -

QuoteSome of you might already be asking:
Why would a Poker player build a Baccarat App? Shouldn't you know better?

Yea, I should. Baccarat is a -EV game (if you don't know what EV is and if you're serious about being a better gambler, read my article about Expected Value). It can't be beat at the casino in the long run. The odds are always working against you, even if you catch a break on the good side of variance every now and then.

http://betselection.cc/baccarat-forum/baccarat-pro-by-autobetic/

You should read his article about expected value. You might learn something, or maybe not.

Quotewhy don't you attack ever system author?

Do I have to keep repeating myself? Because every system author isn't selling their system and hyping it up. You are.

Quote from: Mike on June 26, 2017, 11:57:21 AM
Ok Stephen, I'm sure all prospective purchasers of your current book would like to know what the result was of your tests over 10,000 Baccarat shoes, so how many bets did you actually make in those shoes and what was the final profit?

And by the way, you keep saying "I'm a sponsor" as if that gives you some kind of right to make nonsense claims with impunity. I think you should read Autobetic's first post. He's a sponsor too, but unlike you he does understand that Baccarat can't be beaten in the long run -
http://betselection.cc/baccarat-forum/baccarat-pro-by-autobetic/

You should read his article about expected value. You might learn something, or maybe not.

Do I have to keep repeating myself? Because every system author isn't selling their system and hyping it up. You are.

Every Author is entitled to his 'opinion' whether s/he believes in systems or otherwise. Like every person wanting to win at any game is entitled to believe in system/s. S/he will have their own was of playing this might be working or might not be for them. I offer my strategies, my ideas, my thinking based upon my research, tests and clever structures. I'm not forcing anyone to buy my current books nor indeed future books. This is a matter for them to decide. I have received numerous emails from people from various countries stating that my strategy works for them. On the other hand I receive 5% of negative feedback mainly from people like you who don't believe in systems and therefore condemn me and people like me that believe in systems. We're free thinkers who think outside of the mathematical box. You not believing in systems is your prerogative. But you shouldn't try to impose your beliefs upon others whether author of systems or those interested in such structures. You're way out of line to do so  ;D The bottom line is you don't believe in systems, I and many others do. I'm entitled to sell my systems, this is my blog. I'm not forcing you to be here. I advise my readers to test my systems. My aim is to offer systems that help readers win at the game. Readers of my books, my systems understand that to win at baccarat it's a matter of long term gains rather than long term greed. There is the difference so when you ask me what was the outcome of the 10,000 shoes I tested its all subjective. Readers understand that there are waves within space and time, thus wins and loses. No person is going to play hundreds of shoes non stop. My checks of 10,000 shoes -- as I have already written to you -- show a breakout beyond the peak into profits. But like I said my strategy was not designed to be used in this way i.e. shoes after shoe after shoe infinite. Individual players of the game have lives,they need rest. I have gone over this ground a number of times already and I am repeating myself so if you ask me again I am just going to paste in this reply, because you will source no other information from me, and I will not waste my time on a non believer. No one is forcing you to believe, to buy, to try, nor to respond.

For those that are interested in my current books click on the link below which offer the best current offers.
My 2.1 book will be out soon followed by my 3.0 book that within a few bets turns the tables on the casinos house edge in favor of the person using my strategy. It's a game changer. If you believe Mike, that the game cannot be beat then you'll never stand a chance of winning at the game of baccarat because like him you'll do nothing. But if you believe in my advanced knowledge of the game then find out more how you can win. I have advanced information that no one knows. If you want to know then I am about to publish my findings, PM me.

I'm not selling no expensive workshops and I am not affiliated with any online gambling sites where I get a percentage of how much you bet. I state this in my books. I don't believe in online gambling for reasons I write further about in my new book out soon. My aims are simple, to help people win playing the game of baccarat. Whether that is for fun or for profit this is up to the readers of my book. There is a disclaimer in my books regarding any monies you gamble using my opinions. I wish every gambler whether s/he bets real or fun money the best of luck and hope my strategies help them to win. The only connection I have with gambling is my books.

Quote from: Mike on June 26, 2017, 11:57:21 AM

And by the way, you keep saying "I'm a sponsor" as if that gives you some kind of right to make nonsense claims with impunity. I think you should read Autobetic's first post. He's a sponsor too, but unlike you he does understand that Baccarat can't be beaten in the long run -

Believing that baccarat can't be beaten in the long run is a subjective belief. It does not follow that such a claim is gospel until all system are proven to fail. The said Author is entitled to his opinion as much as I am entitled to mine. This holds true with readers, they are as much entitled to believe in whatever they want to believe in and try out whatever they want. Your objectives seem to be aimed at suppressing information and the strive of the drive to beat the game of Baccarat. The game is just that "a game" the definition of a game means that players of the game try and beat it. If the game was impossible to beat people would not play the game. If you can prove that it is impossible to beat and explain that then I bow to your superior knowledge. It's only more or less a 50/50 game of chance, it's not rocket science...Don't beat yourself up about it. Get over it, or better still try and beat it.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 26, 2017, 10:38:31 AM
It's an extraordinary claim you're making, much more remarkable than Ed Thorp's discovery that card counting could be used to beat Blackjack. That changed Blackjack in casinos the world over; has your book changed Baccarat? I don't think so.

Rome wasn't built in a day...Everything improves in time, like cars, electronics, computers etc. My book has made good ground and advancing. 3.0 wins the game hands down, flat betting with few bets on each shoe. It will rock the game. But people like you who don't believe in systems (card counting is a system: a mode of play, an instrument to help a player gain an advantage) people like you put put thinkers like me down because you want to reduce intelligent thinking to negativity that dominates your thinking. You want to damage creators, thinker systemisers because you fear new discoveries.   

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 26, 2017, 12:34:13 PM
You not believing in systems is your prerogative. But you shouldn't try to impose your beliefs upon others whether author of systems or those interested in such structures. You're way out of line to do so  ;D

LOL, "way out of line"? Sure, it's way out of line to state the mathematical FACTS about Baccarat just as it's way out of line to state that 2 + 2 = 4.  ;D

If you're a believer, 2 + 2 could equal 3, it depends on your opinion.  :P

Stephen, of course people are entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.

Notice, folks, how Stephen is intent on diverting attention away from his system to me. I'm one of the "mob", who is "negative", trying to stifle creativity, etc. But nobody in this forum is particularly interested in my personal views, or yours, they just want the truth. Actually, that's not quite true. A lot of members would settle for a nice dream, and if that's the case, Stephen's your man!  ;D

Now you're admitting that your system is subjective, fair enough. But why not put it in your book?, then people will be less likely to give you negative reviews if the system doesn't work as advertised. And you're full of contradictions; how can the 3rd revision of your system be subjective when you claim that it beats the house edge? You've even given a number to quantify this. You know perfectly well that system players don't like subjective systems, so that won't go in the book will it?

Quote from: Mike on June 26, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
LOL, "way out of line"? Sure, it's way out of line to state the mathematical FACTS about Baccarat just as it's way out of line to state that 2 + 2 = 4.  ;D

If you're a believer, 2 + 2 could equal 3, it depends on your opinion.  :P

Stephen, of course people are entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.

Notice, folks, how Stephen is intent on diverting attention away from his system to me. I'm one of the "mob", who is "negative", trying to stifle creativity, etc. But nobody in this forum is particularly interested in my personal views, or yours, they just want the truth. Actually, that's not quite true. A lot of members would settle for a nice dream, and if that's the case, Stephen's your man!  ;D

Now you're admitting that your system is subjective, fair enough. But why not put it in your book?, then people will be less likely to give you negative reviews if the system doesn't work as advertised. And you're full of contradictions; how can the 3rd revision of your system be subjective when you claim that it beats the house edge? You've even given a number to quantify this. You know perfectly well that system players don't like subjective systems, so that won't go in the book will it?

"they just want the truth" you wrote, but truth is what works, and what people believe in. Truth is not you imposing your control tactics up others.

Quote from: Mike on June 26, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
LOL, "way out of line"? Sure, it's way out of line to state the mathematical FACTS about Baccarat just as it's way out of line to state that 2 + 2 = 4.  ;D

If you're a believer, 2 + 2 could equal 3, it depends on your opinion.  :P

Stephen, of course people are entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.

Notice, folks, how Stephen is intent on diverting attention away from his system to me. I'm one of the "mob", who is "negative", trying to stifle creativity, etc. But nobody in this forum is particularly interested in my personal views, or yours, they just want the truth. Actually, that's not quite true. A lot of members would settle for a nice dream, and if that's the case, Stephen's your man!  ;D

Now you're admitting that your system is subjective, fair enough. But why not put it in your book?, then people will be less likely to give you negative reviews if the system doesn't work as advertised. And you're full of contradictions; how can the 3rd revision of your system be subjective when you claim that it beats the house edge? You've even given a number to quantify this. You know perfectly well that system players don't like subjective systems, so that won't go in the book will it?

I'm an extreme systemiser. It's an intrinsic characteristic that I posses. I'm interested in finding out what those rules of a game are and how those rules work so that I can help others win when playing the game of Baccarat.

Most people do not have the time or ability to systemise. I'm best placed to do that which is why I'm publishing my findings in my books. Some people will talk of mathematics and will, in short try telling you that what goes around comes around; in other words you'll lose some then win some or viscera. Then they'll say you'll lose more because of negative expectations. They'll make all kinds of complex insignificant arguments in an attempt to disprove the basic notion that systems do not work. However even those that get lost in mathematics will not attempt to try and develop a way of at least trying to win.

Get into a debate with such a person and you'll soon notice a lack of logic in their circular arguments. They never establish anything beyond that nothing can be established. They even miss the point that the game of Baccarat is just that 'a game.' And more importantly they miss the fact that Baccarat is a 50/50 game of chance. It's not rocket science. Anyone who brings mathematics into Baccarat will never be content.

In short they are afraid of the game, scared of the challenge of trying to win at the game. They are bound by the infinite constrains of mathematics. In the end they end up crazy because instead of concentrating on the patterns the game of Baccarat presents as the results are displayed their thinking delves into the improbabilities. You see this with Mike. His you're stereotypical mathematical aggressive doubter.

:applause: I own you Mike. I think I've won the debate.

Engage with them at your peril but know that they offer you nothing but strife as you can see above.

Engage with a systemiser and he will deliver you answers. He will make order of the game, he will digest the game by classifying and summarizing, he will codify, organize the mode of play to afford the player of the game of Baccarat the best possible chances of winning at that card game.

Hi Stephen,

I like craps. Can your method be used on the P and DP? Just curious if it can applied to this game as well...

A.

Quote from: Atlantis on June 26, 2017, 04:35:13 PM
Hi Stephen,

I like craps. Can your method be used on the P and DP? Just curious if it can applied to this game as well...

A.

I have a unique book on craps coming out in September. If you PM I will let you know first before it is published.
I also have a roulette book coming out in August. What I identify in it will change the way readers view the game. New information not available anywhere. (but whatever you do please don't tell anyone who is into mathematics :'()

Stephen, how much would someone have won on this shoe if they played to your system?

[attachimg=1]

Quote from: alrelax on June 26, 2017, 10:31:03 PM
Stephen, how much would someone have won on this shoe if they played to your system?

[attachimg=1]

Now you're using the casino's system to make fake shoe.

that one single shoe you have selected I would be 1- having exited half way through. If you want you're welcome to select 1,000 losing shoes. But you'll never post the winning shoes! I doubt that every much. Thus your posting of shoes in this respect is pointless. In my future book, 3.0 there are no bad shoes. Big claim I know but this is the truth.

http://betselection.cc/stephen-tabone's/i'm-learning-from-members/msg57533/#msg57533

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 27, 2017, 12:54:57 AM
that one single shoe you have selected I would be 1- having exited half way through. If you want you're welcome to select 1,000 losing shoes. But you'll never post the winning shoes! I doubt that every much. Thus your posting of shoes in this respect is pointless. In my future book, 3.0 there are no bad shoes. Big claim I know but this is the truth.

what was the shoe I posted live from the casino and I won nearly $30,000 with it in my buddy one $39,000 with it to table or Casino lost about $200,000 Plus on that shoeI also posted 16 plus shoes on my thread you haven't run method on them each ones posted in the separate replied to the thread

Quote from: alrelax on June 27, 2017, 03:47:13 AM
what was the shoe I posted live from the casino and I won nearly $30,000 with it in my buddy one $39,000 with it to table or Casino lost about $200,000 Plus on that shoeI also posted 16 plus shoes on my thread you haven't run method on them each ones posted in the separate replied to the thread

lol :cheer: I'm happy you won.

Steven in all seriousness you think I post only shoes that are against your system I honestly do not know your entire system I just don't play mechanically preconceived but placement methods. End of story I  play the way that I play that's highly successful LOL I don't play every day I play almost every week on the local scale I post almost all of my results the losing games no one likes to post no one likes to think about that's the way a real Gambler is I'm sorry.  I wrote about all this in my blog the amounts I lose our between 500 and maybe 1500 when I play I win thousands tens of thousands when the shoes are good in the shoes are doing what I was meant to do for the player I win big that's the way I play I'm not a grind player I don't play a couple hundred dollars and settle for a couple unit win every week I don't do it I admit it this many times. By the way I posted 16 shoes or 18 for you that are lives shoes over the last couple of months but you don't go on and analyze each one and talk about your system I took the time it took me at least 3 hours to find those shoes and then load each one separately for you I did that for you and it'll be the very last time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: alrelax on June 27, 2017, 02:30:27 PM
I  play the way that I play

I'm happy the way you play works for you and that you won 30#$that's all I wrote.

http://betselection.cc/baccarat-forum/16-live-bm-shoes/

Quote from: alrelax on June 27, 2017, 06:45:49 PM
http://betselection.cc/baccarat-forum/16-live-bm-shoes/

I'm glad for you that you won $30,000 using a system. Well done.

It was not a mechanical pre-conceived bet placement wagering system.  I attack shoes as they present themselves from all direction.  What I mean by that is, using a system--at least the ones i have read about and are familiar with to a certain point, is they wager with the 'N' (North) direction.  I wager and think and attack shoes using the following directions.  North-Northeast-East-Southeast-South-Southwest-West-Northwest. 

I don't limit myself to winning $500 or $2,000.00 or losing a certain amount.  I limit myself to losing my buy-in as risk money.  I do not limit myself to what i can win based on my 1/3, 1/3/ 1/3rd money management system that will allow me to keep winning and as well--maintian a certain amount of the win money without a chance of giving it back from my chip stack in front of me.

But my wagers are not a system.  I might do a 180 on wagering thinking 10 hands down the shoe or for the next same event that occurs.  That is what I am trying to spell out. 

I'm glad for you that you won $30,000 using a system that works for you. Well done. Fantastic.

Quote from: alrelax on June 27, 2017, 06:45:49 PM
http://betselection.cc/baccarat-forum/16-live-bm-shoes/

So what happened?  Why don't you run you system on each shoe and mark it up??  What's the problem??

Evidently there is one???

Quote from: alrelax on June 27, 2017, 09:08:00 PM
So what happened?  Why don't you run you system on each shoe and mark it up??  What's the problem??

Evidently there is one???

I am happy that you won $30,000 using a system you know works well.

I have advised readers to check their own shoe results for the sake of clarity and so they get used of the mode of play they chose to try out and or adopt. I've repeated this a number of times.

In addition your shoe results are in a mess not clear. Text all over the score car, errors, scribbles etc, no reader would trust them to be frank. Though they maybe real i.e. genuine to you  Alrelax, you have to see it from readers point of view moreover after all the talk of fake shoe results that other members had stated and then the sudden deleting of the said shoe results, notwithstanding the fact that the word 'fake' had been used in reference to your shoe results in the past. This is old ground thus can't understand why you are continuing posting shoe results targeted at me. It's nonsensical and just demonstrates other things.

Best to allow individuals to check their own shoe results they have noted down in order to try on whatever system they wish to try those results on. Hope this explains the issue yet again.   

As well as the aforementioned reasons, I will not check them because I've checked my own strategy over 10,000 shoes. Therefore there is no point for me to engage with what you keep on trying to force. Thank you but no thank you.

They are real score cards, people write on them, at least all the casinos i play at in the USA, LOL.  Great excuse.  Errors???  Possibly one or two scratch outs where i wrote something before it happened or wrote something in a wrong spot and crossed it out.  LOL.

Okay Stpehen.  I will ask you here and now, Please do not come on any thread of mine that I originated or answer anything I post on this board every again.  At least i am not saying it behind your back like many do. 

I think you are a poor commercial venture for this board.  I have a right to say, i have donated more money to Vic than your measly sponsorship thus far. 

Quote from: alrelax on June 27, 2017, 09:56:58 PM
They are real score cards, people write on them, at least all the casinos i play at in the USA, LOL.  Great excuse.  Errors???  Possibly one or two scratch outs where i wrote something before it happened or wrote something in a wrong spot and crossed it out.  LOL.

Okay Stpehen.  I will ask you here and now, Please do not come on any thread of mine that I originated or answer anything I post on this board every again.  At least i am not saying it behind your back like many do. 

I think you are a poor commercial venture for this board.  I have a right to say, i have donated more money to Vic than your measly sponsorship thus far.

I am sorry you feel the way you do but I think I have explained the situation as clear as I can.

I am happy that you won $30,000 using a system you know works well.

I have advised readers to check their own shoe results for the sake of clarity and so they get used of the mode of play they chose to try out and or adopt. I've repeated this a number of times.

In addition your shoe results are in a mess not clear. Text all over the score car, errors, scribbles etc, no reader would trust them to be frank. Though they maybe real i.e. genuine to you  Alrelax, you have to see it from readers point of view moreover after all the talk of fake shoe results that other members had stated and then the sudden deleting of the said shoe results, notwithstanding the fact that the word 'fake' had been used in reference to your shoe results in the past. This is old ground thus can't understand why you are continuing posting shoe results targeted at me. It's nonsensical and just demonstrates other things.

Best to allow individuals to check their own shoe results they have noted down in order to try on whatever system they wish to try those results on. Hope this explains the issue yet again.   

As well as the aforementioned reasons, I will not check them because I've checked my own strategy over 10,000 shoes. Therefore there is no point for me to engage with what you keep on trying to force. Thank you but no thank you. Good luck  :thumbsup:

In a previous post I promised to donate 50% of my royalties for 3x copies sold to towards the upkeep of this site. I had since sold 2x copies and have donated those funds today via Paypal.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 26, 2017, 03:42:57 PM
:applause: I own you Mike. I think I've won the debate.

lol, if rhetoric wins debates, then you may be right. But most of your "argument" consists of logical fallacies. As far as I'm concerned the debate is about systems and whether SOME of them can win (and yours in particular). You haven't given any reasons why we should believe that some systems CAN win in the long term, but have just offered red herrings, straw men, and ad hominems (you should know what those are if you've studied philosophy - logic 101).

And I have recently acquired a copy of your book (2nd version), and having read it, I don't understand why you say it's subjective. The system is very simple and could be explained in 4 lines (the rest is padding).

You don't seem to be bragging about the positive reviews any more, perhaps that's because they're increasingly negative. Last time I looked there were 5 reviews on Amazon UK, and 2 of them were 1 star. Also it's worth noting that the only VERIFIED purchases were those negative reviews.

Quote from: Mike on June 28, 2017, 07:50:24 AM
lol, if rhetoric wins debates, then you may be right. But most of your "argument" consists of logical fallacies. As far as I'm concerned the debate is about systems and whether SOME of them can win (and yours in particular). You haven't given any reasons why we should believe that some systems CAN win in the long term, but have just offered red herrings, straw men, and ad hominems (you should know what those are if you've studied philosophy - logic 101).

And I have recently acquired a copy of your book (2nd version), and having read it, I don't understand why you say it's subjective. The system is very simple and could be explained in 4 lines (the rest is padding).

All text is relevant to the main strategy, if a bettor or person wants to gain unit wins s/he must know about money management. It's all logical.

Reviews take time to come through even verified reviews Mike. People don't always read books as soon as they receive them. Also Mike, I had sold copes independently thus not all reviews left will be verified ones. I think u need to wait 2 years at least for reviews to iron out. There are books on baccarat that had been published years ago and reviews only now coming in. What makes mine any different. Reviews don't interest me, moreover ones from the mob. Sales do, which is why my book appears in the #1 spot on Amazon best seller out of all Baccarat books! So put that in your mathematical pipe and smoke it!  :applause: Sales are important because the more people learn about my systems there more they will beat the casino. My next two books in the series will demonstrate this to be true.

I try to develop systems that most people can understand and follow rather than complex nonsensical systems. If you're looking for something more complex to win at a 50/50 game a chance I'm sure the workshop mob in Vegas will help you for $1,000. You know the one run by your mob friends. I do have a degree in philosophy Mike and in another tread offered to scan and email it to Vic so that he could call the university to confirm. But your mate Alrelax went silent after slandering me, stating I was fake and uneducated and a fraud. Well what do you expect when he fears having the limelight taken away from him.  :whistle:

As I wrote previously, I'm in it for the long haul. I'm a game combat master. Alrelax posts fake shoes and fake results and attacks me but he is just promoting my work because people do not believe a word he writes. He is not an honest man and has lost all credibility, if he even had any in the first place. He posts lies on his thread and then bans me from responding to them when they refer to me. What kind of a person does this? Only an odd ball. You write against me but I don't ban you do I?

My book is currently on offer for those interested, click on the link below for the best offers. I recently donated funds to this site as promised and plan to donate more in the future. Alrelax your mate from the mob won $30,000 using my strategy and has not donated a cent to this site. Geed greed greed.

When I read your review I nearly pissed myself laughing! Any review even a 1 star is helpful...I mean that's saying a lot coming from a mob member!! All reviews help because when all my 5 star, verified ones come in everything will even itself out. And once the mob fight each other when I'm selling millions of copies I'll laugh even more.  :nod: I'll laugh Gold and so will all non mob readers using my ideas. 2.1 will be out in two weeks shortly followed by 3.0 the book that turns the tables on the casinos in favor of the bettor giving him/her a 1+% edge over the house. 

Stephen,

Is that post addressed to me? because I haven't given a review of your book on Amazon. I can't because it was given to me by a member of this forum. Which review are you talking about anyway?

By the way, I WILL be writing a fair review of it on this forum when I've tested the system.

Quote from: Mike on June 28, 2017, 09:29:35 AM
Stephen,

Is that post addressed to me? because I haven't given a review of your book on Amazon. I can't because it was given to me by a member of this forum. Which review are you talking about anyway?

By the way, I WILL be writing a fair review of it on this forum when I've tested the system.

I think you should wait for 2.1 just to make sure you have all current updates. If you can't afford to buy a copy when it's out let me know and I see what I can do.

I walk slowly, but I never walk backward. -Abraham Lincoln

Quote
All text is relevant to the main strategy, if a bettor or person wants to gain unit wins s/he must know about money management. It's all logical.

To be fair, you do give some good advice, like about not chasing losses. But all this is included in the systems rules, so strictly speaking it's not necessary because if you follow the system rules then you WON'T be chasing losses. And the analogy with trading is misplaced. In Baccarat outcomes are random, share/stock prices are not. In baccarat the odds (payouts) are fixed, in trading they are not. There are some principles which are common to all speculative activity but I think the comparisons you make are misleading.

QuoteReviews don't interest me, moreover ones from the mob.

lol, come on Stephen, you can do better than this. "The mob" are evidently those who you believe are out to discredit you, they have no genuine interest in your book. So how do you know that those who give negative reviews are part of the mob? Because they give negative reviews! (begging the question). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Quote
Sales do, which is why my book appears in the #1 spot on Amazon best seller out of all Baccarat books! So put that in your
mathematical pipe and smoke it!  :applause:

In the first place, I can't find any indicator that your book is a "best seller" on Amazon. Secondly, this is niche market and there are very few books on Baccarat published, so being a best seller doesn't necessarily mean very much. Thirdly, the fact that many people may have bought your book doesn't mean that's it's worth buying for the content. The only thing which determines that is whether the system actually performs as advertised, and that hasn't been proved. Finally, the fact that many people believe something doesn't make it true. This is "Appeal to majority". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Quote
Sales are important because the more people learn about my systems there more they will beat the casino.

What a noble sentiment! And of course it has nothing to do with you making more money.

Quote
I try to develop systems that most people can understand and follow rather than complex nonsensical systems.

Why does "nonsensical" have to accompany "complex"? Of course it doesn't. If a winning system actually was possible, logically speaking it's unlikely to be simple and mechanical because random outcomes don't conform to any predictable patterns (as you seem to assume in your book). Since that's the case, any successful system needs to constantly adapt to the changing outcomes, which implies complexity. Furthermore, your statement seems to suggest that you're more interested in creating a system which can be easily understood, rather than one which actually works. Perhaps because
this would sell better; not many people would be willing to learn something very complex, but "quick fix" solutions appeal to the gambling mentality of "something for nothing".

Quote
If you're looking for something more complex to win at a 50/50 game a chance I'm sure the workshop mob in Vegas will help you for $1,000.

It's not the first time you've mentioned that baccarat is a 50:50 game, as if that implies it's relatively easy to beat. This betrays a serious (but very common) misunderstanding of how the house advantage works in negative expectation games. The chance of winning or the simplicity of the game is irrelevant; the only thing which matters is the payoff in relation to the chance of winning. A system might have a 99.9% chance of success and yet not result in a profit. Conversely it might have a 1% chance of a win and yet yield a huge profit. Please learn some basic probability theory before you pass yourself off as some kind of expert.

Quote
You know the one run by your mob friends.

Even if my friends were in the "mob", this is another fallacy: Poisoning the well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

Quote
I do have a degree in philosophy Mike and in another tread offered to scan and email it to Vic so that he could call the university to confirm.

Great, but a degree in Philosophy doesn't confer any expertise in gambling. If your degree was in mathematics or statistics members might be more impressed. This is the fallacy of "Appeal to Authority". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Quote
But your mate Alrelax went silent after slandering me,stating I was fake and uneducated and a fraud. Well what do you expect when he fears having the limelight taken away from him.  :whistle:

More Ad Hominems. C'mon on Stephen, this is getting boring. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Quote
Alrelax posts fake shoes and fake results

More begging the question. How do you know they were fake shoes? because your system lost playing them. Why did it lose? because they were fake shoes! If you want to prove that they were fake shoes you need to provide some statistical evidence, otherwise your argument is circular.

Quote
My book is currently on offer for those interested, click on the link below for the best offers.

And the obligatory plug, lol.

Stephen,

Please try to keep the debate on topic. If you believe that systems work, and yours in particular, then you need to back up your opinion with some hard evidence, and not indulge in logical fallacies which just serve to distract and encourage petty bickering. If you can do this, you will never have to use your own system because you will be able to live off the income from sales, lol.

My latest book is out!!! 2.1 edition which makes my Strategy, Silver Bullet Proof.

You just got to read this book people!!  Get the Kindle guys from here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0741PX6JK/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1500441816&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Ultimate+Silver+Bullet+Proof+Baccarat+Winning+Strategy+2.1

You can get the paperback too from here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1548900613/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1500441816&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=The+Ultimate+Silver+Bullet+Proof+Baccarat+Winning+Strategy+2.1

Amazing stop losses and when to bet again triggers and fantastic cleverly developed tweaks and new chapters on systems and mathematics etc. Happy reading.

Quote from: Armilar on June 14, 2017, 03:29:34 PM
Hi Stephen,

I purchased your 2nd edition TUB book a few months ago from a word of mouth recommendation.

Would be great to be added to the list :)

Thanks.

I bought the 2.1 book silver bullet proof baccarat winning strategy and I am waiting for stsephen's baccarat tie book coming out this month.

Quote from: WildMoney on September 08, 2017, 08:36:17 AM
I bought the 2.1 book silver bullet proof baccarat winning strategy and I am waiting for stsephen's baccarat tie book coming out this month.

Total insanity, scam, fallacies and the author has zero class and invades any and all message boards with spam and his commercial sales that no real gambler will follow, after its been tried of course.