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[ADulay]

All,

  Hmm, I didn't realize I could start a new thread in this area, so instead of posting up in the "General" area, I'll use this one.

  As several of you have Stephen's book and are testing his play, you can use this area to post up your worksheets showing the ongoing development of what originally started out as a mere OPP play.

  Stephen has the option to remove this from his area if he wishes but for those of you who are working this play, here's my first post on the subject.

  These are the three "fake" shoes that Alrelax posted up a few days ago.  If you haven't tested your play on those, you are falling behind.   

  If our results vary in the extreme, then some of us are not on the same page.  So run those sheets and see what you come up with.

  There are three different plays being run on each sheet.  Zip/F12 and TUBS and of course VDW.

  AD

[stephen tabone]

I've received the following from a member via email:

"1. How many decks in these three shoes? the results are, 74, 74, 73 these can't be 6 deck, too many and no ties.
2. 1st shoe, only two runs of zigzags, run of those being 4x and 7x / 2nd shoe only three runs of ZZ, 3x 6x 4x / 3rd shoe only two runs of ZZ, 3x 4x / so in all 222 results the total number of zigzag runs, i.e. 3 or more = 31
Stephen this looks unusual. I mean if true these have to be the worst kind of shoe results that do not show your system in a good light. Also note too how there are few runs of Bank and or Player on all thee shoes and how there are no long runs of either Bank or Player. Also note how the structure of each shoe are similar to each other as if someone had sat down and written them! Please post this."

I'm going to write out the results in board order to see what they look like.

[stephen tabone]

All,

  Hmm, I didn't realize I could start a new thread in this area, so instead of posting up in the "General" area, I'll use this one.

  As several of you have Stephen's book and are testing his play, you can use this area to post up your worksheets showing the ongoing development of what originally started out as a mere OPP play.

  Stephen has the option to remove this from his area if he wishes but for those of you who are working this play, here's my first post on the subject.

  These are the three "fake" shoes that Alrelax posted up a few days ago.  If you haven't tested your play on those, you are falling behind.   

  If our results vary in the extreme, then some of us are not on the same page.  So run those sheets and see what you come up with.

  There are three different plays being run on each sheet.  Zip/F12 and TUBS and of course VDW.

  AD

the results of zigzag runs are even worse when i applied TUBS it = just 22x in 222x results over three shoes.shoes 2, and 3, have similar number of P/B, for instance, shoe 2, = 36x Players, and shoe 3, has=  35x Players. It is true that in all three shoes there are no more than a run of 7x runs be that Player or Banker have, zigzag biggest run is x6 there are no, 8,9,10 runs etc. Whilst not impossible I have to consider all aspects of posts on this forum regarding fake shoes that other members have stated I will have have to investigate further (yet some posts have been deleted) and consider all elements. They do seem rather strange. As I wrote in another post, the best way forward is for individuals to check their own results with results of shoes they have taken themselves otherwise we cannot be sure if any results are real or not.

[stephen tabone]

Have looked again at the stats, there are 103x combined runs of THREE or more player and banker runs, 1st shoe, = 30x, 2nd shoe = 37x, 3rd shoe = 36x, this 103x combined runs verses only 22x zigzag runs. = approx divide 103 by 22 = 4.6. 103 subtract 22 = 81 more P/B runs / zigzag has the same probability chance as P or B runs but over 222 results in these three shoes it is way way lower. And the order to these shoe results do seem to counter the TUBS system. Personally with all the information I have, and my experience in playing TUBS over many shoes and having checked over many thousands of shoes I have never seen this in 3 shoes, just out of the blue. Sure there are bad shoes but I really have to reserve judgement when on the one hand in one respect I had been warned of and where there might be some malice. Three bad shoes out of the blue, no good shoes even...emm...

[Sputnik]

Stephen i would suggest a tweak or improvement of TUBS based upon observation i made testing 200 samples with your strategy and you can clearly see the same with Adulay's shoes above.
We call them "REVERSALS" first shoe has hit zero ground five times in a row, no one should lose with a shoe that break even five times during the game play. Same with the second shoe with five reversals or zero ground (back to back results), no one should lose that kind of shoe and the last one has eight reversals.

This means during the game when you attack to reach the win goal you know that there will be certain amount of reversals. Some has past you during the game and some are waiting in the future.
So if you like this idea i will help you to define the average amount of reversals you can expect during 60/80 hands playing your method.
Then you could make additional rule that is much better the limit the loss limit to -3 units that give no room for error or gambling ability to reach the win target (my opinion).

I see it like this, you create some degree of expectation within when you have to reach your win target before is to late and be saved by one reversal.
If some one does not like to do there home work they can just implement the rule after playing half the shoe and hope for the best to hit a reversal or loss limit.

Cheers

[stephen tabone]

When you get approx 3.6 (sets of 22x) more P/B runs more than zigzag runs over three shoes that someone posts (=81x more!) you first need to 'ask questions' before making further tweaks. The game play and added tweaks are strong enough. These shoes...are very questionable. The knives were out to get me, (as advised by some members) I know that, at the time these were posted, therefore I really cannot accept them as stand alone. The fact that there were no good shoes that showed TUBS in a good light posted means that no one reader can take these 3 shoes as gospel.

Again I write, individuals should take down their own results and apply them. To merely reply on other persons shoe results is meaningless. No one serious about winning would judge a strategy based on what others claim. S/he must check a strategy against results s/he knows to be true. Otherwise what you'll find on here is 'bear baiting' against me. Though I might be a bear, in defending my strategy I'm certainly not a chained one, to accept claims. I'm a free thinker and therefore am not bound to masters who mistreat in order to satisfy themselves and or the crowd, you readers.

Over the space of a few days, 18th -21st June 2017, the mob (double faced) in order to try and discredit my strategy went onto Amazon and left negative reviews (not a good word to say about it! That I think says more about themselves). The mob clearly planned this and did so to protect their friend's $1,000 workshop in Vegas as other members had advised me about what is going on (then the mob leader takes them to casinos to lose: and he get commission from their loses).

And then you get these doggy shoe results to try and put others off from looking into my strategy! these people will do/say anything to protect their mob leader. My guess is that they don't even gamble, they don't bet on baccarat for real but just pretend to. Readers should make up their own minds. As of today my book is still #1 on baccarat on Amazon. (currently on sale: click on the link below) 2.1 will be out soon, followed by 3.0 which everyone is waiting for.

[alrelax]

I've received the following from a member via email:

"1. How many decks in these three shoes? the results are, 74, 74, 73 these can't be 6 deck, too many and no ties.
2. 1st shoe, only two runs of zigzags, run of those being 4x and 7x / 2nd shoe only three runs of ZZ, 3x 6x 4x / 3rd shoe only two runs of ZZ, 3x 4x / so in all 222 results the total number of zigzag runs, i.e. 3 or more = 31
Stephen this looks unusual. I mean if true these have to be the worst kind of shoe results that do not show your system in a good light. Also note too how there are few runs of Bank and or Player on all thee shoes and how there are no long runs of either Bank or Player. Also note how the structure of each shoe are similar to each other as if someone had sat down and written them! Please post this."

I'm going to write out the results in board order to see what they look like.

No ties?  Seriously the cards I blew up and scanned were as follows:  1) 73 B/P's with 8 ties; 2) 72 B/P's with 5 ties; and 73 B/P's with 10 ties.  Seriously?  Great accusations.  All three shoes same structures?  I don't think so.  All pretty common looking for casino play.  I guess if i had a shoe with all 1's, 2's and an occasional 3 and a 4 repeat, that would be suspect to. 

1 of the shoes had a player run of 6, a banker run of 6, the rest 3's 4's and one 5 repeating Banker also.  What is so abnormal about that, because there was no 7 or 8 or 10 repeating streaks.  I have played 4 to 6 shoes and anything over 6 has been absent. 

1 of the shoes had a 6 repeating Banker, a 6 repeating Player, and 4-four repeating bankers and player runs. 

The other shoe had 2 seven repeating streaks--one banker and one player, had 2 four repeating players runs and had a 5 repeating player run also.

What is so uncommon about these shoes???  An according to your PM emailer, every shoe is suppose to have long streaks, say greater than 8 or 9, doesn't happen at times. 

But since it makes you feel better, I lied, the three are fakes and i commit sins and i am a bad farther and ignore my kids and all the rest.  Seriously, you are a professional and an expert?   You perpetrate what someone sent you by PM and make me look like i lie and created something to take away your expert and professional work???  Nice of you how you did that Stephen.

What casino had guaranteed or shoes that regularly with consistency have streaks greater than 6 on a regular basis?  I beg to differ from that one.  "How there are no long runs of banker or player".  That is laughable, i played 3 shoes and those are the results.  You never sat down and played 3 or 5 shoes and had nothing over 5?  I have plenty of times.  There was 6 and a 7 in these 3.  Jesus.

[Sputnik]

 I don't care about the mob or does who are negative, i am known among many gambling forums and will make my verdict based upon honest observations.
But i don't like when some one start to change the rules and strategy overall when the results is not positiv.

Now Stephen was kind to give me additional betting pattern to complete the betting and i will stick to +3 unit win target and push once for more or stop at +2 units or hit loss limit -6 units.
I will use RNG with Roulette Extreme with no zero and i will run seven days each day and post the result in this topic.
Because in the end i want to know what i do average during each week spending in the casino and after four weeks i want a positiv results.

Week 1

1. -6
2. +2
3. +2
4. +4
5. +5
6. +6
7. +3

+22
-6 = +16

[stephen tabone]

When you get approx 3.6 (sets of 22x) more P/B runs more than zigzag runs over three shoes that someone posts (=81x more!) you first need to 'ask questions' as well as that three shoes, not one more shoe to show the strategy in any good light!

[stephen tabone]

I don't care about the mob or does who are negative, i am known among many gambling forums and will make my verdict based upon honest observations.
But i don't like when some one start to change the rules and strategy overall when the results is not positiv.

Now Stephen was kind to give me additional betting pattern to complete the betting and i will stick to +3 unit win target and push once for more or stop at +2 units or hit loss limit -6 units.
I will use RNG with Roulette Extreme with no zero and i will run seven days each day and post the result in this topic.
Because in the end i want to know what i do average during each week spending in the casino and after four weeks i want a positiv results.

Week 1

1. -6
2. +2
3. +2
4. +4
5. +5
6. +6
7. +3

+22
-6 = +16

Under the circumstances as they present, each and every reader should take his or her own results and apply them. There is the mob and then there are serious readers who want to win at the game of baccarat.

[alrelax]

When you get approx 3.6 (sets of 22x) more P/B runs more than zigzag runs over three shoes that someone posts (=81x more!) you first need to 'ask questions' before making further tweaks. The game play and added tweaks are strong enough. These shoes...are very questionable. The knives were out to get me, (as advised by some members) I know that, at the time these were posted, therefore I really cannot accept them as stand alone. The fact that there were no good shoes that showed TUBS in a good light posted means that no one reader can take these 3 shoes as gospel.

Again I write, individuals should take down their own results and apply them. To merely reply on other persons shoe results is meaningless. No one serious about winning would judge a strategy based on what others claim. S/he must check a strategy against results s/he knows to be true. Otherwise what you'll find on here is 'bear baiting' against me. Though I might be a bear, in defending my strategy I'm certainly not a chained one, to accept claims. I'm a free thinker and therefore am not bound to masters who mistreat in order to satisfy themselves and or the crowd, you readers.

Over the space of a few days, 18th -21st June 2017, the mob (double faced) in order to try and discredit my strategy went onto Amazon and left negative reviews (not a good word to say about it! That I think says more about themselves). The mob clearly planned this and did so to protect their friend's $1,000 workshop in Vegas as other members had advised me about what is going on (then the mob leader takes them to casinos to lose: and he get commission from their loses).

And then you get these doggy shoe results to try and put others off from looking into my strategy! these people will do/say anything to protect their mob leader. My guess is that they don't even gamble, they don't bet on baccarat for real but just pretend to. Readers should make up their own minds. As of today my book is still #1 on baccarat on Amazon. (currently on sale: click on the link below) 2.1 will be out soon, followed by 3.0 which everyone is waiting for.

I have no idea what seminar or person you are talking about or others are referring to.  I was going to start a full time business as I told you and the State of Nevada's Post Secondary Education official agencies documents are posted within my Blog showing how they would not give me an exception/waiver to having official teachers, backgrounds checks, fingerprinting, fee, course outlines etc., the same as a private school or a dealer school.  Their state certified consultants and annalists cited, my course content would have great leverage and educational advancement for anyone taking it if they were employed at a casino.  However, don't get me wrong, I was not teach or seminar about system and strictly bet placement, etc.  Otherwise they told me, there would be a waiver and no regulation because systems and bet placement method seminars are outside of the regulatory realm, etc.  So, I am not operating a business so I hope you are NOT referring to me in what you quote.

I ahve no interest or concern with anyone's books, except if it benefits me or i can profit from it.  But what does bother me is how you have literally and written wise, accused me of submitting fake score cards to discredit you (with the knives in my hand), seriously??

[stephen tabone]

The PMs and emails I receive have identified 'the mob' members. We know who they are and why they are doing what they do. Readers should take their own results and apply them and disregard fake shoe results that show strange results. You have a choice: stick with me or engage with them. I'm on the side of the bettor of baccarat to help them to win. I am not affiliated with any workshop or casino whether real or virtual or online. I do not receive any commission. Or you believe and join the mob who do not want people to win, do not gamble at baccarat and do not want the truth to present as it is.

[alrelax]

Stephen, so you are claiming those 3 shoes were made up by me and they are fake and conceived to discredit your expert research and system, is that correct???

[stephen tabone]

I have no idea what seminar or person you are talking about or others are referring to.  I was going to start a full time business as I told you and the State of Nevada's Post Secondary Education official agencies documents are posted within my Blog showing how they would not give me an exception/waiver to having official teachers, backgrounds checks, fingerprinting, fee, course outlines etc., the same as a private school or a dealer school.  Their state certified consultants and annalists cited, my course content would have great leverage and educational advancement for anyone taking it if they were employed at a casino.  However, don't get me wrong, I was not teach or seminar about system and strictly bet placement, etc.  Otherwise they told me, there would be a waiver and no regulation because systems and bet placement method seminars are outside of the regulatory realm, etc.  So, I am not operating a business so I hope you are NOT referring to me in what you quote.

I ahve no interest or concern with anyone's books, except if it benefits me or i can profit from it.  But what does bother me is how you have literally and written wise, accused me of submitting fake score cards to discredit you (with the knives in my hand), seriously??

Members are PM ing me and emailing me every day. I am receiving more and more information all the time. There is a massive imbalance in the shoe results as I have written. And it is noteworthy how no other shoes were posted that would show my strategy in a good light not even with the new tweaks and the clarification of my strategy play. Readers can thus make up their own minds. Also a number of posts were deleted to cover up wong doing. Whereas I have not deleted any of my own posts.

[alrelax]

Stephen, so you are claiming those 3 shoes were made up by me and they are fake and conceived to discredit your expert research and system, is that correct???

Please answer this.