+ Register

[Gizmotron]

Gizmo, what do you think they do or feel about a gambler who uses a system(different score sheet) and wins on a regular basis, but maybe like 300-1000 at a time? are there eyes on him like an eagle?

They hate deep players. They hate it when a deep player recovers or even goes ahead.

[Patience777]

The casino that I frequent raise most of the table minimums to $50 at night when all the high rolling Vietnamese come into the casino to play. The other night Banker was running wild on almost every table. I would estimate my casino lost around 200K that night in the Baccarat pit. The dealers black chips were pretty much almost all gone from every table. Remember, the casino is working on everybody in "the long run" and they realize they will have bad nights from time to time. The casino believes Baccarat is an unbeatable game. For most people it is. The very good players can beat the game however. It's not how much you win,  but how little you lose.

P   

[brokerny]

Aces, you don't believe what Asym said actually happened or can happen? it does make alot of sense. winning at max or near max limit for a streak of a year, i would have kicked them out much earlier than a whole year. if these guys were smart, they should have took their games to macau or the US.

[AsymBacGuy]

Aces, you don't believe what Asym said actually happened or can happen? it does make alot of sense. winning at max or near max limit for a streak of a year, i would have kicked them out much earlier than a whole year. if these guys were smart, they should have took their games to macau or the US.

Yep, why lying on this?

Simply put casinos worldwide have the right to refuse the action of anybody and without giving any reason and I can provide many more examples of players who got banned without cheating.

And many gambling experts are banned from playing just because they are experts, even if they haven't really wagered a cent on the tables.

as. 

[soxfan]

Up here the casinos can't give you the gavel just for winning well and regular, hey hey.

[21 Aces]

Yep, why lying on this?

Simply put casinos worldwide have the right to refuse the action of anybody and without giving any reason and I can provide many more examples of players who got banned without cheating.

And many gambling experts are banned from playing just because they are experts, even if they haven't really wagered a cent on the tables.

as.

Cite cases for baccarat specifically not games like black jack, etc.

[alrelax]

Casinos in the USA will not take adverse action against a player for winning, especially at baccarat.  Granted, we are talking about clean players and no shady actions or people that cause extreme suspensions due to buy-in's and ID's, etc.  The casinos these day since 9/11 have huge government regulation regarding money transactions, ID's, etc.  Never used to come into play with suspicious transactions at the $3,000.00 mark, etc.  But today is a total different story in the USA.  People backed off or barred from player are lots of times affiliated with something along those lines and the people who witnessed something regarding that, talk a different story at the tables and rumors spread like wildfire.

Even in Southern California, I have seen lots win tens of thousands of dollars or hundreds of thousand.  Doesn't even matter to any card room there.  The bank is not there funds, they have to employ licensed non-casino afflicted 'bankers' anyway.  All that matters to the card room is the commission and other trivial avenues of gambling as well as their facility charges.  There is also lots of government regulation in the news about adverse player and casino violations regarding Southern California card room casinos.  The Indian casinos which some operate huge baccarat action, is another story and more along the conventional avenues. 

As far as all the large chains of casinos, MGM, CET, Station, Boyd, Etc., they will not ban or bar any player at baccarat for winning, without cheating.  Or at least a form thereof that they know there is solid ground for action such as in the Golden Nugget, Atlantic City case a few years back where they were playing with un-shuffled decks of cards and the players figured it out. As far as going into a casino in the USA and winning and winning repeatedly, there is nothing to worry about.  As far as the odds of you winning 100% repeatedly in baccarat and playing any length of time, it would be a miracle alone if you had that sort of perfect strike rate playing more than 1 or 2 hands, say 4 nights a week.  But I am not going to discuss theory because it means nothing compared with reality.

As far as the casinos outside of the USA in smaller countries, I cannot comment but do hear stories through pretty reputable sources they do get tough at times on certain groups or races of players.  Again, I don't have enough info to really comment. 

In the USA they can and have the right to refuse service to anyone for anything, each one is considered private property, etc.  It is a catch all.  But seriously, I have played for 3.5 decades and have numerous casino management personnel in my family as well.  There are tons of reasons players are ban and 99% IMO have nothing to do with winning. On a side note, winning is great for a casino, it is like a perfect Barbie model type hanging at the front door of a strip bar in heels, a g string and push up bra French kissing another female.   

[AsymBacGuy]

Cite cases for baccarat specifically not games like black jack, etc.

Case #1 was a 30-35 y.o. asian guy regularly playing at a well know eu casino. His bets ran from 1000 euros to the max 4000. He started to play there from april-may 2013 until he got banned about one year later. He presented his ID at the desk (in eu every player must show a valid ID to enter in a casino) just to be told he was no longer welcome there.
It seems he won about 250.000-300.000 euros in the process.
He bet rarely and only the Banker side with a sort of 1-2-4 progression. People at his table started to bet in the same way, maybe this was the reason he got kicked out.

Case #2 is more interesting. Again an asian guy accompanied by his girlfriend/wife and wagering only the final portion of the shoe mostly at Austrian casinos. What i know he was the owner of a high end chinese restaurant in Vienna. It seems he kept winning and winning and winning by using a heavy progression (good news for soxfan!) on certain final portions of the shoe. He bet either Banker and Player.
Despite of his tipping generosity he played until he was banned from every Austrian casino (Austrian casinos are a company).

Differently to US casino policy regarding black jack, in Europe when you are banned you can't enter the casino no matter what games you will play. Some exceptions stand in Russia.

There are more notable cases besides baccarat and black jack about people getting barred for "too much winning" honestly.
The best and very famous example concerns a Spanish family who literally destroyed Madrid casino (and other premises around the globe) playing roulette.
The family acting as a team and getting an advantage from supposedly biased wheels won for several years until they were banned. They won about 4 million euros. 

Around the mid 80s, a couple of German players joined an Italian casino winning in just one month the equivalent of $750.000 (of that time).
They used a kind of visual ballistic strategy, wagering nearly half of the wheel (17-19 numbers) after the ball had made 5-6 spins and instructing the employee to give the rotor the lower velocity he could without being summoned by the pit boss.
On average they were right 8 times over 10.
Albeit their tips were enormous, eventually they got banned. A further investigation made by the casino supervisors found that those two guys were not welcome in half of all european casinos.

We see that the mathematical edge alone can't prevent casinos to lose money even "in the long run". And when they realize they can't have an edge upon certain players they use the ban countermeasure.

as. 









 


   
 


   

   






   

[Bally6354]

Nice post Asym,

I only personally know of one guy who got banned from the Stakis/Ladbrokes chain of Casinos (UK) back in the early 90's for shuffle tracking at blackjack. It was my local at the time and there were a few small time counters around at the same time who didn't really get much heat grinding out a bit of pocket money. The shuffle tracker however was in a different league. There was a max bet at the time of £200 on a box. He would load up all 7 boxes at the start of the shoe if he cut into some decent cards. Anyway, to cut a long story short, he won 100k+ in around 9-12 months before he got his marching orders. The Casino started doing the strip shuffle about a year later which makes it a bit harder to track the cards. I believe from what I have read that you have a 50% edge if you can locate an ace in the packs of cards.

I always think of it as a game of cat and mouse. They will always be a few players who find a way to milk the casinos for however long they can stay under the radar or the Casino are prepared to tolerate it. Is it wiser to grind it out over the years or go in for the kill and get the job done quickly. I suppose that also depends on bankroll and your own personal traits. At 50%, you can afford to miss a few! 

cheers

[AsymBacGuy]

Thanks Bally.

And thanks for your interesting contribute!

as.