I have recently finished reading a book called 'Renzoni on Baccarat'
It was published some 41 years ago and there is no system/strategy as such. However there is certainly a lot of common sense and sound advice. It can apply to all table games and so I am going to put up some extracts from the book.
Renzoni took the game of Baccarat from Cuba over to Vegas where the game was first introduced at the Sands Hotel. Renzoni is said to have witnessed between 10 and 20 million Baccarat decisions in his 40 years as a professional.
''If there is one thing I have learned about gambling, it's to recognize and respect streaks. This is true, incidentally, in all casino games.
If, for example, the cards favour the player for three consecutive decisions, then your next bet should either be player or you shouldn't bet at all! If you lose, you lose only one wager. If you bet against the trend, you can be suckered into betting and betting and betting. I have seen more fortunes lost by people who became emotionally committed to one position that went against the trend than through any other folly in gaming!
Don't buck a trend. Either swing over or don't wager. I consider three or more decisions in one direction enough to be considered a trend.''
''I have developed a certain gambling philosophy over the years. One of the basics of that philosophy is to take advantage of those times when I have a winning pattern going for me. And one of the ways I do that, take advantage of the good luck, is to keep playing.
The majority of people come into a casino and when they get lucky they quit to soon. They start out with a couple of hundred dollars, win $500 and walk out with the feeling that they have scored a tremendous victory over the casino. Those same people will come back time after time and drop $50, $100, $200 each visit, and without realizing it they still aren't ahead when they do get lucky. Because they quit playing too soon. Vegas casinos are so plush and luxurious because people don't always cut their losses but they cut their winnings!
It's easy to understand. Everybody is influenced by that old saying ''quit while you're ahead'' but they don't realize that the saying has a catch when it is applied to gambling. It's certainly a good idea to quit while you're ahead, but shouldn't you figure out what ''ahead'' really means in your case? You might be ahead for the evening, but are you ahead or even close to it as far as the whole year is concerned? and are you winning as much as you ought to be?
Most people, unfortunately, bet either the same way whether they're winning or losing, or they bet just the opposite of the way a professional gambler will. By that I mean they bet too much on each decision when they are in a losing pattern, and they bet too little when they're winning. They just don't take advantage of winning patterns that come their way.
Of course you never know when a pattern is going to change. You may be winning handsomely and then it turns around into a losing streak. But why walk away from the table until you have had some sufficient evidence that decisions are not going your way, that your win pattern has ended.
It takes nerves to play up your winnings, but think about it. What are you gambling for? If it's to win some money, why not win as much as you can? Pressing your bets when winning is the hallmark of every professional I have ever known. The casino need have no fear of the person who wins and continues his conservative wagering. The dangerous player is the one who presses (raises his bets) when he is winning.
In Vegas they have an expression about some high rollers that goes like this: ''You've got to watch him. He presses when he is winning and if you're not careful, he'll write you a new address!''
Most people will say ''what if you don't win on the third or fourth try?'' Well that's always possible. So you lose what? Only winnings, not your original bankroll. And isn't it worth risking money you've just won from a casino when you have the chance to win ten to twelve times as much betting the professional way?''
more to follow...... I have to type this out.. :)
:applause:
Thanks for sharing this.
''If you really want to know the truth, there are no ''secrets'' about professional gambling. They are however the 'facts of life' that many participants don't know or never spend the time to discover.
When it comes to gambling the way professionals do, there are only three basic ingredients: Knowledge, acquired skill and money management. Oh, there are a lot of little things to learn, things that time and experience will tell you. Most of these important secondary gambling adages are no more than common sense.
For example, gamble when you are well rested, and when nothing negative can cloud your mind and affect your perception, analysis and decision making. I don't think anyone should gamble who is afraid of losing. It's obvious that when your confidence is shaky your performance will be bad.
To gamble, you don't have to begin with a lot of money, but you certainly need some nerve and some courage. Because effective gambling, like accomplished skiing, sometimes requires you to go against some very basic instincts.
In gambling, the key is to control your losses and capitalize on winning streak. In other words, to lose as little as possible and win as much as possible. There are ways to accomplish this. Every professional knows these principles.
Simply stated, they consist of (1) Keeping to low average bet while you are losing and (2) doubling up almost everytime you win. Most people do just the opposite, doubling up when they are losing in a foolish attempt to get there losses back fast, and restricting themselves by becoming conservative when they begin to win. It's the old story of self-preservation. They lose and they think they must get back to a break-even point as quickly as possible. So they double up before coming into a win pattern, and what happens?
If a man has lost three or four $10 bets in a row and then begins doubling up on each of five subsequent losing bets, he will blow a total of $620 trying to get back $30 or $40. Most amateur or occasional gamblers will quit at this point, or well before it because they did not follow or were unaware of the professional principle that applies to losing streaks, or patterns.
A professional gambler rides his luck when he is winning. But you'll never see a professional bet the same amount consistently when he's winning-unless it's the house limit.''
more to follow.....
''If you are ever to have even a remote chance of walking away a winner more than occasionally, you must practice what professionals call ''money management''.
Always try to get the strength out of your money.
The objectives of the philosophy are rather simple and to the point. Objective Number One, is as I've said, to control your losses while you are losing so that you have a chance to last out your unlucky drift and take advantage of a subsequent win pattern.
Objective Number Two: To win more than the amount of money you start gambling with, possibly many times more, if you are winning-and to break even or stay ahead if you lose more decisions than you win on a given night.
Sounds acceptable, doesn't it? And all you have to do to reach these two goals is:
1) Stick to a low average bet when you are losing, and....
2) Increase your wagers as soon as a winning trend is indicated.
Every professional I have ever known has followed these principles strictly. Yet few amateur or casual gamblers do. Why, I'll never know. People read up on, investigate, learn about and try to apply professional principles to everything they do with the exception of gambling, in gambling, amateurs tend to remain amateurs, though they obviously don't have to.''
one final extract to follow.... (I will do that tomorrow evening. It's the best one explaining his approach to baccarat in more detail)
i just reply so i can find this topic tomorrow and read it ...
is late ...
A dissenting post by Xander has been moved to:
http://betselection.cc/baccarat-forum/re-words-from-tony-renzoni-3444/
Since there's a spawned thread already, it's fair to ask the fellows who wish to dissent to kindly post further dissenting posts over there, letting the natural flow of this thread to carry forward as it should.
Please continue with your expositions dear Bally :nod:
Hi Bally, nice post please kindly share more.
''I have seen more fortunes lost by people who became emotionally committed to one position that went against the trend than through any other folly in gaming!''
LoL....SO TRUE!! I wish I had this etched on my hand for all the times I have undone a lot of good work.
I am sure I can add on the final chapter to complete this thread. [smiley]aes/beer.png[/smiley]
''If I have got a thousand dollars to bet and I have just sat down at the baccarat table, here is the way I would manage my money. I would bet a hundred dollars at a time sticking to the low average of one tenth to one twentieth of my stake if I am just beginning or in a losing pattern-until I won two or preferably three wagers in a row.
Now I double my bet to 200. If I win again, I might add another 100 to make it 300.
Sounds simple doesn't it? Even if I lose more bets than I win, I will walk away a winner. Because the amount of each losing bet will tend to be small and the winning bet larger.
Now if I am losing while playing with an original 1000 stake, I try to do exactly what the losing pattern principle tells me to. I make low average bets of 100, then if I slip down to a 400 or 500 bankroll, I drop down to a 50 average bet, then to 35, then maybe 25 and then to the house minimum 20. That way I get anywhere from fifteen to twenty chances to begin winning again.
Whenever I start to win, even if I am down to my last 100, my last 40, I start increasing, because I know that I can get back to my original position or better very quickly by doing that.
Sometimes the cards are so bad I end up losing everything. But that doesn't happen often because on all but the very worst nights-when by the way, I will read the patterns and maybe just decide to quit when I am halfway through my bankroll-I am bound to pick up a win drift or two during those 15 to 25 decisions I guarantee myself.
It's true that sometimes all the win drifts-the short ones-do is delay the time it takes to lose everything. But for as many times as that happens, there are as many or more instances when the win drifts are long enough to put me ahead. Then I take stock and start all over again. I have been talking about the rough nights. The good ones are where you just can't seem to do anything wrong.
By the way, if you want to see the converse of this principle, just watch someone who bets consistently no matter what. Watch a 20 bettor make 8 passes in a row. He's delighted with himself that he's up 140. Now if he had played my system most conservatively, his wagers would have been 20,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90. He would lose that last 90 wager. But instead of winning 140, he would have been ahead 370. And no time from the third wager on, could a losing hand have kept him from remaining a winner for the series. On the other hand, if one was feeling really lucky and feels that a streak has begun, he could wager 20,20,30,50,90,160,250,300,400. This is still wagering so that if he lost any decision after the second, he would have profits. Yet for exactly the same number of wins as the first player who ended up 140 ahead, this player ends up 920 ahead. Same 20 to begin with. Same number of winning hands.
Beginning to see the light?
It's a bit like poker. A good player can sit at a table all night with the most atrocious cards and end up losing a few hundred while a bad player with the same hands will lose thousands.
Next to luck, money management is the most important feature of any gaming session. Never forget that for an instant.
A big question in gambling is when do you stop?
You have to avoid the trap of continuing to gamble to long. Set your own loss limit.
Much of the decision will depend on whether or not you still feel lucky.
Winning can affect the way you are playing. You may not be any longer in total control. That should be enough to tell you to quit.
There is a casino saying ''don't go for the chandeliers''
Okay. But when to stop? ''The next two bets I lose, I quit''
Or even...
''The first bet I lose, I quit.''
By far in my book, the most important thing to consider with regard to quitting well your ahead is whether or not you are really on a long, lucky streak. If you keep winning, despite a few reversals, and you keep adding money to your bankroll, I would say keep playing. Take advantage of the fact that you are lucky on a particular night. Stick to it until you see that your luck is reversing. **(I have explained about reversals in my ''Conquer the Casino'' thread)**
I agree with a lot of what Renzoni says. It is just good common sense. All my big losses in casinos have been chasing a rigid bet which is just not appearing. So that also likely means that something else is streaking. The smart bettor would have been riding the streak increasing his bets well the **** bettor is escalating on his losing bets. It's kind of like a fear of losing and yet you end up perpetuating the losses. Most gamblers want things now and have little patience.
A better approach is reversing the mentality and playing not to lose. It can make you a more careful and strategic player just looking for the right opportunities to get in and out. There is no harm taking a unit loss now and again waiting for a run to appear. It doesn't happen all the time but it beats the alternative.
Thanks.
Quote from: Jimske on March 05, 2015, 03:39:37 PM
Look, if one can guess correctly to win more big bets than small than one can surely guess to win more hands than lose!
Well I can't really argue with that. I am tempted to come out and say a lot of stuff written about bet selection is a crock of ****! O:-)
Renzoni talks about following patterns BUT he stops short of saying which ones. He would be in good company on this forum. Look, it's simple. Either you have an edge or you don't. The biggest danger to ourself is
believing that we have an edge when in fact we don't. Now that's down right dangerous right there.
It's fair to say you can only get so much out of these books. Normally a bit of sound gambling advice would be worth more to the player than any system discussed, LoL.
Actually Jimske, your line that I quoted makes me think about RTM as well. If you are clever enough to pick winners from an extreme situation, then surely you could have picked winners as well from the rich stream of whatever it was that caused something else to go missing for so long. It's not a critique. I am just saying like.
Well, I will say it again and it's the only thing that works for me trending wise on the E/C's.
[attachimg=1]
I was just saying to a friend that I am up over 500 units playing this way since christmas. It brings home the bacon consistently for me. There are enough runs, streaks, call them what you like to get out in front more often than not.
Here is another quick one!
[attachimg=1]
Notice the chop effect on the RED's. Unfortunately, you can't take advantage of that on the E/C's.
A big question in gambling is when do you stop?
Much of the decision will depend on whether or not you still feel lucky..
Keep playing because "we are feeling lucky" or quitting the table because "we are feeling unlucky" are really surprising words coming from a professional player.
Maybe Renzoni had an extraordinary talent to "control" the game and after all his book is an enjoyable reading.
Jimskie, thanks for the quote but there are no mystery bets.
The bets are coming after having selected some sequences and everything follows the expected, so no mystery involved. ^-^
as.
Quote from: horus on March 05, 2015, 10:56:46 AM
''I have seen more fortunes lost by people who became emotionally committed to one position that went against the trend than through any other folly in gaming!''
LoL....SO TRUE!! I wish I had this etched on my hand for all the times I have undone a lot of good work.
Yep, I agree. But I don't think the solution is follow the trend. It's too easy to get caught in a long whipsaw, however you define the trend. Then there's the question of when you start following it. It's all much too subjective for me.
And I agree with Stetson Bailey that negative progressions are to be preferred over positive ones. 87.5% of the time you will encounter a streak length of at most 3, and this means that most positive progressions tend to "lock in" losses, instead of locking in wins as the D'Alembert type does.
Does a sum ever post his method for bet selection....? He seems to avoid this....
Bally from 2014. Good reading, no.......great reading without a doubt.
Kudos to the originator of this thread: Bally6354. Thx alrelax for repost.
Many excellent thoughts/comments, and I will mention just a couple below. I "think" I read this book years ago. However, I don't recall some of the paragraphs above. A great read and several phrases worthy of further exploration.
''If there is one thing I have learned about gambling, it's to recognize and respect streaks. This is true, incidentally, in all casino games."...
...If, for example, the cards favour the player for three consecutive decisions, then your next bet should either be player or you shouldn't bet at all! If you lose, you lose only one wager. If you bet against the trend, you can be suckered into betting and betting and betting. I have seen more fortunes lost by people who became emotionally committed to one position that went against the trend than through any other folly in gaming!..."
I did this once. Once and only once. Once being the key word. My preference if I feel a strong need to go against a pattern is to make only two attempts, and if failed attempts, then I abort the mission. I do not switch sides at that stage in the streak.
"...is to take advantage of those times when I have a winning pattern going for me. And one of the ways I do that, take advantage of the good luck, is to keep playing.
The majority of people come into a casino and when they get lucky they quit to soon. They start out with a couple of hundred dollars, win $500 and walk out with the feeling that they have scored a tremendous victory over the casino. Those same people will come back time after time and drop $50, $100, $200 each visit, and without realizing it they still aren't ahead when they do get lucky. Because they quit playing too soon. Vegas casinos are so plush and luxurious because people don't always cut their losses but they cut their winnings!..."
IMO this is the nemesis for many players, and I see it every day. Many players simply will NOT allow themselves to win at the higher levels(> .5 or >100% of buy in). Yet willingly allow the casino to repeatedly take their buyin.
Its not so much a fear of losing as it is an unwillingness to win.
Any time I hear a player say something post trip: I'm not sure how much money I made, probably close to break even, BBUUUTT we had several great meals, and free hotel, and and and ,....etc. I know with great confidence they were playing just to break even and not playing to win.
Sometimes the W simply isn't there--that is the trip that we must simply limit the losses and if one does, the big W trips will neutralize/surpass that limited loss. Many do the exact opposite--limit the upside and lose without limits(i.e., buyin +).
IMO we should view our buyin as investment risk. Exhaust it and make the casino work hard for it, but most importantly limit the losing sessions. In other words be willing to win at the >=level of risk we are willing to undertake.
I remember the words of my greeeaatt uncle Confucius:
"Grasshopper, risk is the price one pays for opportunity."
Continued Success,
Hello guys, doesn't time fly! It doesn't seem like nearly 10 years ago since I started writing this up.
Even after writing this up and reading it again and again, it still took me years to get out of old habits and rewire my gambling mentality. That's why I still read here to get a daily dose of reality from Alrelax, AsymBacGuy and KungFuBac. You can really only appreciate what some people write when you go through certain stages of your gambling journey and the theory (especially a lot of my theory) sounded great, to me at least but it's a bit of an eyeopener to see that it can all unravel so quickly right before your eyes at the tables if you don't really grasp what the most important elements are to be able to win. So kudos to the three guys mentioned above as well as Renzoni for a lot of honest, real life experiences shared.
It's in my book review section within my blog.
https://betselection.cc/index.php?topic=8988.0
I did a review on it a few years back in 2017.
Might be something else in there you guys like?
If anyone wants to read the Renzoni book for free, It's available at archive.org
All you need to do is register which is free and then type in Baccarat into the search engine and you will see quite a few of the more well known books available. It's the same site which runs the wayback machine which is pretty useful as well.
One of the best books on Baccarat I have read in there is Byron F Herbert's ''Power Baccarat 2''
There is a chapter in there on hit and run which is about how to keep your winnings and the mental aspect of playing Baccarat. I think that chapter is well worth a read.
cheers