Quote from: Albalaha on July 27, 2019, 04:10:04 AMOther than this, I do not see any use of so called sleepers.

You can use the sleeper group as a foundation for wakers, considering a hit in the sleeper a signal after which you'd begin your "measured attack".

Depending on the size of the numerical group, you can calculate for how long to sustain bets. As a general rule, being always careful past a full cycle. Definitely never past 1.5 cycle of bets.

(Sleepers "clump" as other groups do too, hence they are usable in "clumping" frameworks )

May you and your family find reassurance and love during these difficult times.

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Quote from: alrelax on September 01, 2019, 04:39:24 PMWhen you do well you become a sign of hope to the optimist

Hello guys, on-point announcement here:

Due to reasons outside of our control the forum is going offline from August 17th up to an indeterminate amount of time; nonetheless, do rest assured we're definitely coming back online again

Thank you very much for your patience and understanding.

As they say "it happens" --but we'll be back

Hello dear Sumit. It's okay; everyone's entitled to an opinion.

If you think positive/compounding progressions' earnings on high-paying locations are fiction (or simply dreams) that's perfectly fine with me and I won't argue with you for a second. At all!

What I'm suggesting is simply losing the least during bad times + using clumping events for winning the most to offset misses in a natural/organic way instead of "chasing". That's simply one of unlimited possible personal ways to face the game; I certainly have nothing to prove at this time of my life so my only concern is with my bankroll, as I suppose is the same as yours

I'm not even motivated to post about low-paying betting schemes. It's been years since I post "cancellations" or similar schemes. I have gone through the big negative banks before with many variations and "tweaks" but at this time in my life I simply prefer to regress after a moderate-bankroll bust and recoup in the eventual clump.

For the sake of avoiding even a shadow of a conflict let me tell you are 100% right: Guarantees? NONE! 

...Yet I find it resounding better with me and my current framework for the last several years (see the dates on the posts; when you stick with something for years it may mean either you're a glutton for pain or there may be something to it )

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Quite a pleasure discussing with you too; as I move to the Public Domain scene & devote myself full-time to helping mankind in several productive ways, these bet-related interactions are scheduled to become lesser and lesser, until most likely eventually becoming nonexistent, so let's enjoy them while they last!

Cheers!

Vic

Hello Sumit, I've quit trying to beat the low-paying location & focused on losing the least + winning more to "patch" the balance with positive schemes.

QuoteI read over your topic talking of 75% MM but failed to get its gist.

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The gist: having your "first" bankroll played to increase its unit value.

Creating more minimal/starting unit bankrolls with the enlarged wins.

After losing your first bank, regressing to the very least unit afterward to give back minimal-unit value in case of concatenated busts.

QuoteIt would be great to hear from you if you could offer something valuable in handling bad and tricky stretches.

In this framework you don't "handle the worst"; you pass through the worst with minimal unit value, losing the least in the hopes your positive trams offset them.

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Looking for something 100% sure in gambling isn't the most optimal IMHO; there are no guarantees in these games. At one point you just have to let things go and assume a bankroll bust. The point being "does your positive tram(s) give you enough to overcome the negatives?"... such a thing can only be answered by your own betting, I'm afraid.

Quote from: Kimo Li on August 07, 2019, 07:07:58 AM
Hi Vic,
It has been a while. I hope all is well.

Yes, all is well for us around here

Thank you very much for caring Kimo.

Glad to see you're active around

Quote from: Kattila on August 12, 2019, 10:51:41 PM
Btw...i prefer streets, lines, quads

Hello Kattila, thanks for posting your approach!

I agree; it seems to be a trend: the more you play the more payout you tend to seek! (Newcomers pay attention )

Quote from: Albalaha on August 11, 2019, 01:05:41 PM1) Survive the worst possible; and
2) win a net profit in a below average/average win rate thereafter, without looking for a clumping win or compensating wins.

Hello dear Sumit,

Congratulations on your realization.

I would like to comment on a possible way to face the game with a similar goal.

In my framework, accompanying the 75% Money Management methodology, we divide the game in three (3) states.

• Concentration of hits.
• Expected rate.
• Dispersion of hits.

We try to perform the best during the first two cases, having the intention of rising the MOST raw amount of starting units (initial value) during the expected + concentration times of the game.

As the game "bumps" between concentration / expected / dispersion states -as it's natural with it-, our aim extends toward increasing the unit organically on concentration / expected times while losing the very least on the extremely unwell times.

When the game goes as expected + better than expected, you make it ok, or great. Then you give back the least by regressing the unit to the minimum after a bankroll bust; staying there automatically should there be the proverbial storm... Regressing to the minimum during bad times is better than giving it all back in a short period of time as it's customary with some schemes, which serves the purpose of keeping you longer in game to increase the chance of being there for the time when the tide turns.

High potential to rise + enforced slow fall... with no limit on the wins as betting with increased units "explodes" the initial value & your own take as a player.

You do need a compounding MM to execute this framework, in order to create an EXPONENTIAL PROFIT, with the aim to offset the eventual losses.

The framework doesn't mandate which way to bet in order to create the high-rise conditions. Perhaps you use the "Boom" positive progression with no limit, or perhaps you re-invest most of your net gain toward increasing your session's unit value to make more on every win. That's up to the player.

The point being aiming at winning the inter-session averages rather than blindly trying to recoup immediately / in a rush, or -even worse- limiting your wins by "playing scared". See the mistake of people regressing on the WINS?  (i.e. stiff progressive players betting 1 unit per spin at the positive tram(s) when they're winning at a more-than-expected rate, instead of compounding at these very times for making a killing & helping their averages shine).

You have to create a significant "upward boost" when your time arrives!

This is -in my opinion- a conscious-enough way to have a shot at winning the averages by not "giving it back" all at once while giving yourself the chance of creating upward trends in your balance by compounding your unit value considerably.


Vic

Quote from: Kimo Li on August 06, 2019, 01:02:55 AM
Spreadsheet to explain basic value.

+1 Thank you Kimo

Welcome to the forum Cogger (what a "sharper" selection of a Nickname BTW )

Hope you enjoy your time around & truly end-up with A Fist Full of Dollars

On sleepers being treated as "hot"

While sleepers as single numbers may be good to be avoided as a general rule (i.e. bias, AP), numerical groups containing what would be defined as cold/sleeper numbers can and do hit beyond their expectation (i.e. become hot numerical groups).

When you are monitoring such groups to bet you can extrapolate the "hotness" to include cold numbers inside the group, thus treating sleeper numbers as hot by extension.

You are not really betting sleepers per se, but events within your framework of reference having their own timelines

The game is supposed to be only 1-spin long with no memory, hence "sleeper" "warm" and "hot" states can easily be said to be relative (or even flat outright nonexistent!).

I see it's all about their current state within your very own framework of reference. There's no difference when betting non AP.

What difference does it make for a dozen or a column being hot when it contains sleepers, you do bet the location as a whole.

We can actually use sleeper numbers in such a light, under this frame. Why? Because we're not betting on numbers; we're betting on events...

Quote from: 6th-sense on July 17, 2019, 08:33:17 PM
Like the idea Vic..
The rrbb streams tracker does a good job of all locations at the same time..

Glad you liked it 

The gist is CREATING new (many) streams to be used simultaneously under the same set of spins.

Quote from: 8OR9 on July 17, 2019, 11:21:11 PM
Do you think this can be applied to the Player and Banker decisions in Baccarat?

It may be applied by generating GROUPS out of all combination of P/B for a certain length, then tracking those groups in overlapping cycles.

i.e.

P/B combinations @ 2:

PP
PB
BP
BB

P/B combinations @ 3:

PPP
PPB
PBP
PBB
BPP
BPB
BBP
BBB
...

you get the drift.

Some of our former threads dealing with timeline(s), continuation and similar frameworks of reference:

• TIMELINE & "continuation"
• Is the time-line real?
• Consistent Location Tracking
• Lw methodology in hindsight
• Timeline creation
• Timeline succession principle
• CYCLE-PAIRING play
• Steady locations concept
• Cycle-based play
• Re: Turning the tables around
• ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE APPLIED TO BETTING
• Game paralysis (+advice)
• Bet, Trigger, System, Strategy, Meta-strategy
• The best selection is the one that clumps the most.

A timeline is an ordered stream of sequential data for an event.

A single numerical stream of spins can be used to generate multiple timelines.

Let's illustrate with a simple event: DOZEN JUMP.

We have three dozens:

Dozen #1 = Numbers 1 to 12.
Dozen #2 = Numbers 13 to 24.
Dozen #3 = Numbers 25 to 36.

Let's use a numerical cycle from a recent Wiesbaden casino table to generate a timeline stream.

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We simply write the next dozen spun under the former one.

From #6 to #14 => from Dozen 1 to Dozen 2 => We add 2 under D1.

D1:
2
D2:

D3:

From #14 to #33 => from Dozen 2 to Dozen 3 => We add 3 under D2.

D1:
2
D2:
3
D3:

From #33 to #6 => from Dozen 3 to Dozen 1 => We add 1 under D3.

D1:
2
D2:
3
D3:
1

From #6 to #35 => from Dozen 1 to Dozen 3 => We add 3 under D1.

D1:
2, 3
D2:
3
D3:
1

From #35 to #1 => from Dozen 3 to Dozen 1 => We add 1 under D3.

D1:
2, 3
D2:
3
D3:
1, 1

From #35 to #1 => from Dozen 3 to Dozen 1 => We add 1 under D3.

D1:
2, 3
D2:
3
D3:
1, 1

From #1 to #6 => from Dozen 1 to Dozen 1 => We add 1 under D1.

D1:
2, 3, 1
D2:
3
D3:
1, 1

From #6 to #14 => from Dozen 1 to Dozen 2 => We add 2 under D1.

D1:
2, 3, 1, 2
D2:
3
D3:
1, 1

From #14 to #7 => from Dozen 2 to Dozen 1 => We add 1 under D2.

D1:
2, 3, 1, 2
D2:
3, 1
D3:
1, 1

And so forth for the cycle, adding dozen jumps:

D1:
2, 3, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 3, 3, 1, 2, 3 
D2:
3, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 3 
D3:
1, 1, 1, 3, 2, 2, 3, 3, 2

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We can also notice another popular combination of 12-number sets fit for obtaining "3 groups of 12 numbers", namely the Columns:

Column #1: Numbers 4,7,10,13,16,19,22,25,28,31,34.
Column #2: Numbers 2,5,8,11,14,17,20,23,26,29,32,35.
Column #3: Numbers 3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,33,36.

Let's use the same procedure to generate another timeline set using columns with the same spins:

From #6 to #14 => from Column 3 to Column 2 => We add 2 under C3.

C1:

C2:

C3:
2

From #14 to #33 => from Column 2 to Column 3 => We add 3 under C2.

C1:
 
C2:
3 
C3:
2

From #33 to #6 => from Column 3 to Column 3 => We add 3 under C3.

C1:
 
C2:
3 
C3:
2, 3

From #6 to #35 => from Column 3 to Column 2 => We add 2 under C3.

C1:
 
C2:
3 
C3:
2, 3, 2

From #35 to #1 => from Column 2 to Column 1 => We add 1 under C2.

C1:
 
C2:
3, 1 
C3:
2, 3, 2

From #1 to #6 => from Column 1 to Column 3 => We add 3 under C1.

C1:
3 
C2:
3, 1 
C3:
2, 3, 2 

From #6 to #14 => from Column 3 to Column 2 => We add 2 under C3.

C1:
3 
C2:
3, 1 
C3:
2, 3, 2, 2

From #14 to #7 => from Column 2 to Column 1 => We add 1 under C2.

C1:
3 
C2:
3, 1, 1 
C3:
2, 3, 2, 2

Likewise, so forth for the cycle, adding column jumps:

C1:
3, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 2, 3, 1 
C2:
3, 1, 1, 3, 2, 3, 3, 1, 2, 1, 1 
C3:
2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1

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As you can see, there is no difference in the procedure.

It is the actual amount of numbers in each set what really matters.

Any set of a certain amount generates roughly the same dynamics across spins, as seen in their timeline.

So, we can use any 3 sets or combination of 12 numbers to generate more timelines with a similar unfolding.

How many combinations should we use to generate such parallel timelines, based on each configuration's uniqueness?

Perhaps 10 simultaneous combinations? Maybe 100  simultaneous combinations? Should we go 1000 combinations of 12-number divisions at the same time?...

There used to be a very hard limit for regular casino players to monitor manually between two roulette spins, but -shifting to nowadays- how many combinations do you think moderns computers can handle concurrently? Hint: an ever-increasing amount as time goes by! Even on commodity hardware.

---

The time between spins can be used to make an immense amount of computations in modern times. Equivalent to an army of manual players from the past, with the added benefit of removing human errors from note-taking.

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When using three full numerical cycles at your disposal for analysis, you certainly can see what's going on in the monitored timelines for your betting events to make an "educated guess" if you wish, regarding their current performance for picking/choosing which one(s) to back.

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This is just an arbitrary example. The actual amount of different combinations for three groups of 12 numbers to act as your in dozens is very large. You will have enough to focus on different slices of numerical groups during a -very, very- large amount of sessions.

The underlying event still being the same for all of them: "DOZEN JUMP" (going form a select group of 12 numbers to another group of 12 numbers --or itself, for a jump in the same spot).

Within this event you can permute enough to have a gazillion 12-NUMBER / DOZEN GROUPS for generating separate timelines from which to choose your focus. All of their timelines powered using the same set of numbers spun.

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Hope this sheds some light for your understanding on how a single event can generate myriad  "timelines" using the same stream of spun numbers.

Each of them being equally valid (or invalid!) from the dry mathematical point of view, but nonetheless there's nothing preventing you as a player to give "weight" to the ones you deem better & play for a continuation in their current "state of affairs" i.e. a continuation in their currently-displayed set of events.

This is the last piece of the puzzle to many fellows: Every session a different one.

Betting using "meta systems" so to speak. Built out of "meta patterns" unfolding across spins.

This means betting N amount of timelines for you to choose according to how the game flows in the current state of affairs you are witnessing.

Not one of them is better than the other according to math, but empirical observation places weight to certain configurations vs the others when considering the extra dimension of "time" (as a slice of sequential history in the data).

Yes, they all may go south as you enter betting. Nonetheless, why not choose among the better possible ones? Stiff betting systems are doomed to fail.

We have the technological means to handle massive simultaneous data streams when compared to manual betting. Players from the past didn't have this option. Every little thing that may add to improvements in our game is good to be embraced!

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Becoming a moving target in such a way can prove to be one of the very few possible advantages while surfing the data stream, along with proper money management for maximizing wins & minimizing losses to beat the averages.

In the end, as there is no beginning or end to the numerical stream in infinity, we are forced to create our very own frames of reference in order to imprint the characteristics we get to "see" to act upon over time.

Going dynamic vs stiff may be the final key to keep yourself "current" when trying to hold your ground in the overall never-ending goal of beating infinity.

It may be the piece of the puzzle giving your personal betting stream the proper direction while asymptotically going toward the best current configuration, even as we know the best one changes dynamically, hence you should re-calibrate or re-evaluate your current scenario to change with the flow of the numerical stream too.

Our personal struggle is an "averages game".

Chances are we'd never possibly beat infinity but we may beat our own played numerical stream during a satisfactory-enough length to become "winners".