The owners did not want a political discussion, which I attempted to keep it non-political with facts only.  They removed a post or two and left the OP.  So I deleted that to make them happy.  Hope that explains.

I wanted them shuffled in one order, any order as if a casino was going to deal one shoe of baccarat comprised of 8 decks. 

Maintain that same order exactly but with a different cut card position each time.

Say 10 times.

Record the results of each shoe.

That's all.

What?  No one can put this example on a computer test and see what happens??  Thought it wouldn't be that hard to set it up and check??  IDK.

I would like to see if anyone can test the following?

Set up 8 decks of cards the exact same way/order, and run them out for a Baccarat shoe.

Cut the decks at different places.

Run the test numerous times, like 10 times with 10 different cut points but the same order each time and see what happens?

Can anyone do this?

Quote from: james on September 30, 2016, 11:57:03 AM
According to a baccarat expert one should avoid baccarat where "factory preshuffled" cards are used, since the cards are fixed in a way that are favorable to the casinos. Also avoid baccarat where shuffle machines are used for the same reason. It looks that according to experts one should avoid baccarat game, where machines are used to deal or shuffle, and play only where cards are shuffled in the old fashioned way and dealt by human dealers.

Seriously, silliest poo-poo there is.  With $10.00 you can buy 8 decks of cards.  Go ahead and set them up anyway you so desire to be in favor of 'your casino'.  Cut them once and then see what happens when you play it out.

$10.00, a page of paper and a pen.  You will see for yourself.  Most casinos will cut them more than once on the serious games and as well, many casinos will do a super quick shuffle breaking down the pre-shuffled deck into four sections of 8 and doing a very quick curiosity shuffle, hopefully I expressed that correctly. 

So many of the places are primarily SE Asian and Korean, yes there are some Chinese but not as many as the other nationalities.  Don't know about the Chicago/Michigan areas, talking about most others.

My bad!!!  Absolutely, you are correct, I forgot the main floor and the HL room, two different animals, I'm sorry I forgot!  LOL. 

Yes, now I UNDERSTAND where you are coming from and how you play!  Again, LOL!   

http://vitalvegas.com/stadium-gaming-sucking-fun-gambling-since-late-2013/

The game is junk, takes away all the camaraderie and all the best times of playing with like players and having some hellacious games.  Support and see what happens to most of the live tables in the smaller locales. 

Referring to machine baccarat, not live shoe or even stadium style, on-line bac-electronic bac such as the roulette and craps, etc.  Not in the manipulation of a shoe--of course nothing can change once set up.... Electronic.

Quote from: 21 Aces on September 28, 2016, 11:00:14 PM
I have reviewed several of your 1/3 MM posts and there is no clear defined trailing stop point. 

Let's say you start with $1,000 and win $1,200.  Divided by 3 that is $400 cashed out, $400 added to your $1,000 bank roll = $1,400, and $400 in a reserve bank roll.   Next you start losing.  Where is your trailing stop?

You set your own!  We are all fully grown, big boys, no?  A person is more apt to listen and obey his self rather than some stranger selling a book or a method, etc.

Anyway, seriously, set what you are comfortable with and adhere to it. 

Say you bought in for $1k bank roll.  You got up $1k, you can pool it together and call it $2k bankroll.  Take $650.00 and lock it up no matter what.  Take another $650.00 and put it for reserve and buying in a second time if you wish.  And play with the $700.00 as your primary bankroll. 

Or, another example.  Say you bought in with $1k bankroll.  You won $1,400.00.  Play with a $800.00 bank roll, lock up $800.00 and keep $800.00 for a reserve bank roll.  If you lose your bankroll, think real hard if you want to continue, then use you reserve bankroll you put away, just in case that happened.  Your stop point would be if you lost your primary bankroll, but since we are so hard headed and so convinced we can recoup----that is my whole point and reasoning about the second bank roll.  True, if you get wiped out right away, you are not whole, but with other MM techniques like you mention they really seldom work because your reasoning is, well I can win it back again so I will risk it. 

The other night I was at the casino, bought in for $2,500.00.  I got up a quick $2k plus.  I set aside a small bankroll for my side parlay wagering thing I always do.  I had right at $2k win money left.  I increased my original bankroll to $2,700.00.  I locked up $700.00 and kept $600.00 for a reserve bankroll.  I got up once again a smaller amount and did the 1/3rd thing once again.  I had a bit over $1,200.00 locked up and I had $1,000.00 as a reserve bank roll even.  I increased my primary bankroll to $3,500.00.  I got confident.  I played aggressive and although I went up more, I wound up going down to $2, 000.00 and then I quit.  I really wanted to play more and normally I would, but things got real ugly and most of the players left, so did I. 

Quote from: 21 Aces on September 28, 2016, 06:21:23 PM
That's where prepared play comes in.

My 1/3rd MM works just fine and never ever let's me down, that other stuff is clustered with needless garbage details.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RBNCFlJ_2M

And....the highest majority of all players (at least in the USA) would give right back all their winnings, their bankrolls and continue on to the ATM's/Check Cashing for additional funds until they depleted those also with losses----right after that run stopped and they continued to play for several hours.

There is no strategy, really.  If you win the first one or two, just let your wager ride after the first couple/few and continually pull down your winnings.  You only lose the last one when it eventually falls off to the other side. 

Personally, if I am on a side and it is strong, I press up one or two wins and leave it, pull down each win and sacrifice the last one. 

There is talk about RNG's over on another thread and how some think casinos manipulate outcomes that are supposed to be random.  Some say no way, some say 100% they do and yet others says, they can stay in a grey area and still be in compliance, etc. 

What about the psychological aspect of the player.  Like when casino personnel deliberately get the play upset and 'push his buttons'.  Thinking clear is a key to good wagering and playing.  Getting the player off-balance and upset is a huge down side to the player.  Yet, the highest majority of players will not realize that and only get them selves into a frame of mind, 'now I am going to really smack this casino and take their money'.  It happens and happens all the time.

If you don't think, at least in many of the high limit rooms, that the pit personnel are not schooled and encouraged to mess with the player, you are dead wrong.  Please don't take this out of context as to what I said. I will give you a firm example here. 

A few years ago I was at the Wynn.  I arrived and went to the cage in the high limit Asian area and opened my front money account.  I deposited $20k cash and the cashier counted it twice on the machine, printed out my receipt and opened my account.  Doesn't take but a few minuets at most.  Same all over Vegas.  Then go to any table, tell the floor person you want a marker, they call the cage, verify and cut out your chips.  Almost all of the casinos, at least the ones on mid-strip and the other larger ones will cut it out without waiting for the pit clerk to do her paperwork and come over, which will take a good 5 to 8 minuets.  My buddy was playing at the table I went to before depositing my money and he was winning, winning pretty good at that.  A minute later, turned into 5 and 5 turned into 10.  I kept asking the floor who appeared to be on the phone and kept ignoring me.  My buddy finally slid me over $10k in chips and told me don't get upset, just play, no problem they will get your money soon.  The floor came over and asked me for my receipt, gave it him and he went back to the phone.  Well, a good 15 to 20 minutes went by before the pit clerk finally came over with the slip to sign.  I already lost the 10k my buddy gave me and I was really upset, couldn't think straight.  I paid my buddy back and took the remaining $10k and cashed out.  I went back over to the same cashier that took my initial deposit no more than 30 minuets earlier and she fumbled, phoned and stalled.  Finally gave me $10k for the chips I turned in.

Take it for what it is worth.  At times this stuff happens and it is not normal.  I have also seen heated arguments where the floor will rattle someone's cage big time and square off on them, they were winning.  When someone with a legitimate complaint that is losing, they might get treated differently and do many of the times.