There is a strong commercial principle where it is seen desirable to offer 'a point of difference', a unique slice of experience, world view, that can provide a pathway forward for those who are searching for something worthwhile.


It may be that a study of randomness, random outcomes; some 'core', some ideas, that offer real insights and a way through the mists and difficult 'terrain', these could spark a leap forward.


Perhaps a thread on this subject could be started.


An opportunity for some genuine teamwork to encourage more understanding, and access to important previous research, writing and texts.


Sometimes also, as well as detailed and specific work, there can be discussion in principle, of principles, to encourage a wider expansion of ideas; say a series of potentially fruitful lines of study and some ideas expressed brain-storming - without fear of criticism.


Also some practical support and comment on live play common problems and how to face and overcome these.


Lastly, to set aside personal agendas, and simply to contribute to a larger, new view, a journey.


Responding to the fluctuations within randomness may be such a course. To do something here, that has not been done or attempted elsewhere.

The collective good will, camaraderie, and mutual support within this Forum may be an ideal environment for such a start, and bring forth the 'synergy' invited.

The Method is flawed. I tested it 7 years ago.

XXVV

@Bayes


Thankyou for excellent leads.
R.

@wannawin


Thanks for asking this question, for providing an excellent but fatally flawed benchmark reference, and for your choice of name. Who does not wanna win? Surely we all do or else why bother. Excellent choice, direct and to the point.


Hopefully, we bother all right, we care, and that it's not mass madness or self delusion, ie doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result? (Mind you a recent Italian web clip I was sent from a Professor of Mathematics - Persi Diaconis -tossing a coin ad infinitum producing a fatally flawed result despite its sensationalist caption - may be an example of twisting the truth through a flawed experimental setup - ie muscle memory - something Dealers are trained to negate.)


No doubt what I am about to offer will upset a few, but it is given in the spirit of positive and affirmative action, and is factual.


The 'flawed ' benchmark is of course the so called 'Wizard of Odds'.


The kindly Wizard affirms that he is so certain of his truth that he no longer accepts email trying to demonstrate worthwhile methodologies, and destroys them on sight.


Such a 'closed mind' more befits the Third Reich, North Korea's current demagogue, or the worst of New York Advertising Agencies representing corporate Tobacco.


Nevertheless on his well presented page there are wonderful cases to be made for the use of compound interest to harvest growing profits on even a 1% edge. The key is to overcome the negative expectation. That works on many many levels.


First I would recommend that you accept no statement of 'fact' unless you have verified it yourself.
Many scientists or specialists or professionals in any field, ie those that supposedly 'know', especially until the relatively recent access to public access internet, have resisted challenges to their 'wisdom', and far from being open to the spirit of discovery, have behaved with defensive zeal to their way of seeing the world.


That does not mean that I am a 'conspiracy theorist', but that it is a familiar long standing human trait to maintain control. We see it in many areas of public life.


The internet and the power and speed of computers has enabled searching and quests to be accelerated, so what was once a given, is no longer verifiable.


One such fallacy regards our brain cells. It was once thought that re-generation or repair was impossible. Not so.


It was once thought Quantum Mechanics applied only to sub atomic particle scale physics. Not so.


Once it was thought the Earth was flat and there were limits to how far the ship could sail.


It was once thought many Wall Street bankers and financial gurus were geniuses. Read Nassim Taleb.


I am sure you could prepare a list of 100 or more quite shocking changes to your assumptions and 'constants' while you were a child, as to the current understanding. The list will grow exponentially in years to come.


That is just the nature of Life. It is complex, mysterious and infinite. Human self consciousness might seek short term comfort in focus on a detail, but the bigger picture is always there.


So how does this apply to betting strategies in roulette?


Totally.


But first I have to state the inevitable and annoying disclaimer. Why would someone publish or gift a treasure? I can debate, and have debated on both sides of the argument here, and of course there are middle ways and compromises which are the real way forward.


I can state I have seen a third party, someone well known to me, achieve a relatively consistent gain over the past 6 months, achieving gains of +30 Risk Banks in value, so that compounding can take place, ever so conservatively.


I mention a third party so I cannot be accused of self publicity or promotion.


Martin Blakey a well known Australian mathematician based in Melbourne once stated that if the Player can achieve a greater than 5 bank gain then he has a truly 'Winning Strategy'.


I have the good fortune to know the Player and his methods, and they will remain strictly confidential. They are linear and mechanical, not guided by intuition or 'magic' ( sadly -lol).


My suggestion is to not accept standard wisdom on any subject. Challenge and question.


And if you do provide information and free valuable knowledge to individuals what then?


In the past few months I have written to a couple of readers who had either contacted me via PM or via other means ( I can be traced -lol).


In one case, because I really admired the individual concerned for their zealous quests and years of searching, I provided several detailed methods which were keys forward to winning strategies, and large volumes of played examples.


The result. .....


Silence, and that reader's quest continues.


Another one, more recent, out of the blue, from some contact a few years ago, and now a re-contact. I offer a specific and free 2-3 month programme of guidance and a statement of fact as to a proven methodology in existence. In the spirit of good will and comraderie amongst 'roulette professionals'. You might think the reader would jump at the opportunity.


No.  Silence.


These two quite different examples illustrate an important principle of human nature.


We see what we believe. ( ie  We don't see what we don't believe is possible).


So what is a good gaming system......


Some method that can more than cover the house edge consistently on a large number sample, ie greater than 50,000 bets from live spin testing. ( If it is flat staking then a bet on every spin, then 50,000 spins).


Simple and effective using smart bets with sound money management and a full understanding of your bet characteristics, so that a loss can be quickly repaired. Stop loss in place, patience and probably no more than 3 banks to hand all quite small.


You will not win every day but most days you will, and the suggested 2 wins out of 3 session attempts strategy is clever


It is up to you to find the characteristic or phenomenon that attracts you. Is it repeats, or short cycle patterns or long cycle patterns, hot numbers, warm numbers, cool numbers, EC bets, Dozens and Columns, Reverse Bets, statistical analysis, aberrations, hunting zero, finals, clusters, clump formation, reversals, triggers, random distribution analysis, intuition, prediction.


This may trigger some constructive comment I hope.


Having gone through that list and more you just have three to six other major variables to deal with, and the most formidable challenge of all is yourself.


Good Hunting
XXVV

Best wishes to you Bally.
XXVV

@Bayes


This is fantastic work thankyou. Sobering indeed, to the point of a cold shower on a mountain summit
at 5am (being say one hour before sunrise- traditionally the coldest time). If we add a 100kmph wind and the chill factor, and that we have no protective clothing, its bleak.


Okay will aim for a +200% edge in ongoing work!


Will have to review all this data.


Fortunately real life means we can work in short bursts, select the table at which to play where we can review past spins ( some argue this has no meaning but I totally disagree as I have demonstrated so often all spins are interconnected within the context of a random distribution cycle), choose when to enter and exit, and apply the most effective methodologies and strategies at will. The challenge is on.


Also, and perhaps the best way forward, avoid progressions. Minimise loss.


Thank you for your comments. Much food for thought.
XXVV

Noted the comment from Walter.


You may recall the work of 'Charles' and 'Simon' not so long ago and a host of prior representations by these people over ten years as the internet expanded.


As with all matters: Caveat Emptor   - from the term and its origin this is not a recent piece of advice.


Again, as always, retain a healthy balance in your observations.


I would invite readers to PM if they wished, and they do, and sometimes I respond.


Does that mean my behaviour is suspicious or inappropriate - of course not.


In many cases I have provided a lot of free information.


In fact I don't think people within the Forum actually communicate enough, for a variety of reasons.
So please less of the fear, and more of the exchange of free information and collective goodwill.


And should a commercial agreement be entered into then good for the willing participants, as long as  there is a genuine contract and exchange of worthwhile information which has a perceived value.


Caveat Emptor.
XXVV

@Bayes


Thanks for the crystal clear illustrations.
All very well for a situation where no 'skill' or interface with influence on possible outcome is concerned, but what about say, based on large bet samples, the player developed a theory that demonstrated say a +5% edge, thus overcoming the house edge at say -2.7%, and enabling a small net positive tendency.


There are numerous linear methods that can achieve that, and I would nominate some, given appropriate filters and 'triggers' to stop /start ( I know you are not hot on 'triggers), then a progression of this nature may be useful.


Also, but I won't go into it here, what if there could be a mental influence on outcome to shift the results say 10% your way.


In fact perhaps you could illustrate what 'edge' would be necessary achieve 'consistent' victory and thus avoid the risk threshold of 185 spins.


Or even with say a 10% edge might there still be 'whales' out there that would cause wipeout?


Or worse, with progressions is there always the lurking possibility it could be a wipeout day?


I suspect the latter.


Best wishes
XXVV

Well done Vic


and .....''life goes on".


Some lessons for all in this, and best wishes to all, and to all 'sides' in  the commercial practical sense.


Hearty thanks to all. We all have to make 'allowances' at times and this is maturity when not overtly judgmental. I know it's a fine line and as we say in the building and development business, 'its water under the bridge' and to add even more mixed metaphors (* Tony Robbins would be delighted), you don't burn your bridges, or who may be your next bedfellows (in the commercial sense).


As long as improved standards of presentation and editing control ( et al...) are maintained then we have a wonderful vehicle for our extended family of participants. Remember this is just a means to an end, it's a vehicle, and the adult behaviour, spirit and sense of genuine research among the participants is an ongoing challenge which I am sure will be achieved.


Now what was that about Van der Waerden's Theorem again.....


Best wishes
XXVV

I play the slots occasionally as chill time and ideally use profit from roulette. I get the feel of a machine quickly and can sense when there is something good about to happen, or not. I used to play a particular bank of similar game machines adjacent to the roulette tables. If say $300 was made on roulette I would try $60 into the machines and would frequently gain small and mid jackpots from $60 to $400.


One bright Monday morning hardly anyone around I put in the usual amount and received a small payout so continued and the major jackpot was triggered + $ 16,000.


Why not if you can find 'favourable machines'. They took my favourites away soon after.


Go for it if using 'free money'.


A serious jackpot win can be a life changer.
Best XXVV

@ Gizmo


Excellent post and thanks Razor.


My money is literally on the 6th + sense.
R
XXVV

@esoito


Sure. That is the basis on which I proceed also. If it can't work flat staking, there is no way that any overlay can overcome and protect from ultimate catastrophic failure or being frozen out as a flat-liner.


So there has to be at least some positive edge demonstrated after a suitable statistical sample.


I try to build on +10% edges and somehow you have to find that cluster.


Random selection of target numbers alone will not do it in the long term, ie +5000 spins say.


Better, 50,000 spins.


Clumping Theory and knowing when to stop at optimum gain ( in my view 3 hits) is a good start.  WF* Theory in clusters of some 22 spins + 'tendrels' indicates +10%. That is what I have commenced a new thread upon, in order to give a stepping stone. and launchpad.


That is all subject to further key testing of course.


Go the Tool !


XXVV

The article was Winning Roulette created by Professional Gambler - VLS Forum  October 30 2009

Thanks for this B/Wiz
Funnily enough the link and research following the recent Vegas Dude interest took me to a post and conversation involving MrJ and his 27 sleep street method revealed on VLS Forum*.

It made very good sense as did his recommendations for bank size et al. and earnings per session.

His whole approach is very professional and no nonsense.

So this re-sparked my interest in streets and here we have a very useful idea to follow, so thanks for your presentation.

Will re-check title and date and advise.

BestXXVV

This is a fascinating concept and one where over views, overlays, and a sort of neural network analogy of interactive responses can be visualised.


Very interesting and will return to this soon.
The whole debate on triggers, effectiveness, and the non-mechanical nature of some triggers, ie consciousness is involved to make some overview decisions - this is so important.