I did a quick test on some real brick and mortar wheels

1. The 2 wheels are American wheels (OO)
2. I only looked at last 18 spins
3. If there was a tie, then there was NO bet
4. The method.......I only used the last 18 spins. I used a column baccarat sheet with the A B  C D E F G H I  on top as columns.  If a number fell in a sector, I put a check mark in that sector (so  if a number 5 hit I put a check mark in the B column - America wheel )
5. When the next number hit, I erased the check mark in the 18th number back and replaced that number with the current number so I was always looking at the last 18 numbers.
6. Then I just count the check marks in each ABCDEFGHI column and whichever column had the most check marks I bet those 4 numbers.

I used the F and I  whereas the original poster didn't...........doesn't make a difference.


Wheel #1

8  losses
1  win

losses = 32 -3 = 35
Wins   = +35

Break even wheel



Wheel #2

10 losses and 3 winners

10 losses =    - 40 - 9 = -49

Wins = 3 x 35 = 105

Profit = 105 - 49 = 56 units

Total invested = 13 spins x 4 units a spin = 52 units

ROI = 56/52 =  107 %  ( home run wheel ....keep hitting like this and you will own the casino)

Obviously need a lot of testing.

Maybe best way to play is with 1 or 2 partners on different wheels and split the bankroll evenly ......might have a better chance to catch the hot wheel if you have more people playing more wheels.

Before risking real money, I would try a virtual 50 spin test.

Just record the 50 spins in an on online casino or brick and mortar and see how you do.

If you can hit 6 winners out of 50 spins ( 6/50 =12% winners ) I would risk real money

44  losses x 4 units a bet = -176 units

Plus you lose 3 units on the 6 spins you win since you are betting 4 units a spin.  So 3 x 6 = -18 units

You win 35 units x 6 on the 6 spins you win so 35 x 6 = + 210

So you win 210 - 176 - 18 = + +16 units

You bet 4 units x 50 spins so total investment = 200 units

You won 16 units  so return on investment = 16 / 200 = 8 % ROI

Which is huge ROI. Las Vegas built a whole city on a house ROI of  1% to 5 %

If you only hit 5 winners out of 50, you will have a losing ROI which I think is about -10% ROI.
That extra win from 5 wins to 6 wins means the difference between losing and winning.

Sine you are only betting 4 numbers, be prepared for long losing streaks of 10 to 15 losing bets in a row.......
and of course the hardest part is knowing when to quit betting.

Of course 50 spins is not a good sample size since you need about 6,000 or 7,000 actual spins to get a good feel for the drawdowns and losing streaks........but 50 spins will give you some kind of idea you can work with.

If you play at a brick and mortar casino, there is no problem with getting your bets down since it takes the dealer a long time to clear the table and pay the winners....but of course the casino can see you are betting on sectors, and you are also keeping track of the numbers on a piece of paper, and depending on how much you bet, they may ask you to take a hike if you start winning too much....but of course there is a way around this.

1. Actually they are 12 columns, not 12 rows.

2. Sounds like a mechanical system...which will ultimately fail

3. How about using only 3 or 5 columns and use the same technique of betting opposite of last decision and then looking for a pattern of the  wins lor losses in each column - (such as betting for a win if the column show 3 wins in a row or betting a chop of the wins and losses of the column such as if the column shows a win, loss win, loss, then bet for a win)     .......of course patterns appear and disappear, and like beauty, are in the eye of the beholder,  but that is what makes bac challenging.......also using only 3 or 5 columns will give you more decisions, which will give you more decisions for the patterns to develop.

Maybe use a separate bankroll and separate MM for each of the 3 or 5 columns ?

Actually assuming you look for betting for or against the last decision will not make a difference if you are looking for patterns of the wins and losses.....all you are doing is changing a win to a loss and a loss to a win and looking for pattern of the wins and losses to bet for or against.

Everyone playing bac will eventually bet for or against a patterm no matter what semantics they use, they are betting patterns.

sputnik....can you explain your progression for the first 10 or 15 spins below.....you obviously lose 2 units on a loss and only win 1 unit on a win since you  always have to bet 2 dozens


2.
3.
3.
3.
2 L.
2 W. +1   
2 W.   
1 W.   
1 W.   
2 L.
1 W. +2   
2 W.   
1 L.   
1 W. +3   
3 W.   
1 W.   
1 L.   
2 W. +4   
1 W.   
3 W.   
2 W.   
2 L.
1 L. +2   
1 W. +3   
2 L.   
1 W. +4   
1 L.   
2 W. +5   
3 W.   
3 W.   
1 L.   
3 W. +6   
3 L.   
1 W. +7   
2 W.
2 W.
1 W.
2 W.
1 W.
1 W.
2 W.
2 L.
3 W. +8
2 W.
3 W.
2 L.
3 L. +6
1 W  +7
3 L
1 W  +8
1 W
1
1
2
2
1
2
3

Sometimes you have to wonder about some people.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/pure-cash-promise-beat-las-vegas-casinos-leads-indictment

ASMGuy  thanx for the info.....I'll look it over. 

If you have figured out the fail safe method, hopefully you can post it.

If Im reading this right, the lets say you have

L  -1
L  -1
W +1
L  -1
L  -1
L  -1
W  +1   Net loss of -3

Now start betting 4 units a hand ( Deficit of 3 + 1 )

Next series

W  +4
L    -4
L   -4
L    -4
W +4
L  -4
L  -4  Net loss 0f -12  units     (   Total loss so far= 3 + 12 =-15 units )

Now bet 16 units a hand ( deficit of 15 units + 1 unit )

L  -  16
L  -16
W  + 16 W
W  + 16
L  -16
L  -16
L  -16    = net loss of -48 units.  Total loss now = 48 + 15 = 63 units  ...and we haven't even lost 14 in a row.

And next bet is 64 units ( $ 6400 a hand if betting $ 100 a unit )

Wins and losses as described above unfortunately happen all the time in baccarat.

I think if you lose 7 in a row you have to bet 8 units a hand. Then if you lose the next 7 in a row, you will lose 56 units for a total loss of 63 units.

Losing 7 in a row happens all the time so if you are betting $ 100 a hand you now have to bet $800 a hand.

So if you lose 14 in a row you lose $ 6,300 betting $ 100 a hand ( plus commission ).

You can lose the 14 in a row over two shoes.....such as lose the last 6 hands of the first shoe and lose the first 8 hands on the second shoe.

You only make 1 unit when you close out a series but lose 63 units when you lose the 14 in a row.  So you have to win 63 series in a row to break even.

Probably a good method to play with an online casino and bet only $1 a hand so the most you can lose        is      only $ 63.

Interesting method asymbac......so if you lose the fist 7 bets in a row...do we now start betting 8 units ?

If we are losing 3 units on the first series of 7 bets, do we now start betting 4 units ?

This can get very expensive as you said because if you ever lose  14 bets in a row  then you would be down 7 units on the first series plus 56 units on the second series ( assuming losing 8 units a hand for the 7 hands ) for a loss of 63 units ( 56 + 7  )....which would break most bankrolls.

Only a matter of time before you lose 14 hands in a row, either in one shoe or two consecutive shoes ( like losing 5 hands at the end of one shoe and losing the first 9 hands on the next shoe )

Next time you play for real, note which side is ahead after the first 4 cards and then note which side wins the hand.

Do your own experiment.

Some  more facts ;

1. Look at any old shoe you have and up all the hands with runs of 3 or less.....most shoes will have runs of 3 or less between 65% and 90 % of the total hands in the shoe.

For example:  PBPBPB
                     P  P B B
                     p     B
                     p     B

There are 14 hands and only 2 hands below than the " 3" line.

% of hands above the 3 line = 12/14 = about 85 %

Check out some of your old shoes,,,,,some shoes are  85% to 90% above the 3 line.

2, Next time you play, look and see which side is ahead after the first 4 cards are dealt. Whoever is ahead after the first 4 cards will win the hand between 65 % and    100 % of the time, depending on the shoe.

Example,  Player has a 2 and a 1 total of 3.

Banker has 2 aces for total of 2. Player will win the hand between 65 % and 100 % of the time since Player is ahead 3 to 2.

Player has a 4 and an ace total of 5. Banker has a 2 and a 4, total of 6. Banker will win between 65% and 100 % of the time since Banker is ahead 6 to 5.

Player has an ace and an 8 for natural 9 and banker has a 2 and a 3, total of 5. Player of course wins 100 % of the time.

Reason is that the side which is behind has to "catch up" with the side which is ahead.

So next time you play, just look at the first 4 cards, and if you bet Banker and Banker has a 2 and a 3 total of 5, and Player has a 4 and a 3, total of 7, get ready to chalk up another frustrating baccarat loss.

If you would like to really beat bac, try to determine which side will be ahead after the first 4 cards and you will win  between 65% and 100% of your bets,,,,,,assuming the casino doesn't throw you out first.

Of course, that's easier said than done.

Interesting 10 part article on the legendary Archie Karas who turned $ 50 into
$ 40,000,000 betting $ 300,000 on dice and baccarat......and then lost it all !

Recently arrested for cheating at blackjack in California and has been entered into the Nevada "Black Book" barring him from all the casinos in Nevada.

http://www.pokernews.com/search/news.htm?q=archie+karas

Best to start at article 1 and then go through the next 9 articles.

Somebody has to tell the guy in the first video that, depending on the shoe, 75% to 95% of the results in a shoe are runs of 3 or less of banker or players........which is why bac is so hard to beat.

And somebody has to tell the guy in the second video. that losing 9 bets in a row is fairly common, regardless of what you may read in any bac forum.

Thanks for the definitions.

Can you post a few examples of how you decide where to place your bets ....not sure how you bet from the example you gave in this thread.

What is the definition of a zone and a super zone ?