Thx for post.

Yes, I play alot of shoes and set in front of many hands(I just don't wager on many).

*I play with a man that plays similar to Alrelax (I perceive). Though I've never played with or met alrelax. So just from what he posts/my perception(I may be incorrect).

This fellow bac mate doesn't cover ALL the bonus bets at once. However, he wagers on one or two bonus bets once thewy have been triggered,  at the same time, along with a base bet(P or B). He is very disciplined and presses back and forth with winnings from either (bonus bets--base bets) and always bets a little more on whatever just hit(P,B, Panda8,Fortune7,...etc). In other words he tries to use the just-won monies to feed larger wagers.

Like me he feels that if something has been activated it is more probable to hit one more time(Vs an event that has never occurred in this shoe and to bet with the hypothesis it will now present "just for me" at this given moment of time).

**A couple days ago we had both played about 10hours that day and the past 6hours at the same two tables. It had been rough sailing for most of day.

I was up approx 500-600, and he was down 850(just after he had won a few hands in close proximity). We were both very tired and each had about a two hour drive in front of us(about 10pm). He stands up and tells the pit "color coming in", and I say out loud "we've got a quitter". We all laugh along with the pit boss and dealer laughing as they knew we had been there along time. As he stands up the dealer deals a bonus win on the panda 8.
My table mate  then says Ok Im back in and then adds: "I know Im probably going to regret this". In a matter of probably 20moins he hits two bonus bets (25:1, and 50:1), then a Fortune7 at 40:1. He jumps up and says Im gone(and whispers to me "I was down 850/closest to even I had been all day, and now Im up over $6K).

As he is waiting for the pit to verify the color up he then teases me: "You gotta bet the Fortune7". As he knows I seldom bet any bonus bets and only occasionally wager the F7 and typically only when Im at a critical pressed-up size/want to do a partial hedge on what I have in the wager,...etc.

I was glad for him. Sometimes Variance smiles up on us. This guy is a veteran player and has a solid money management system in place. I just don't care for the Variance involved as I have plenty volatility trying to navigate a simple base bet(P or B), lol.

I colored up a short time later still near the same balance.



Continued Success To All,

I agree.
This scam was actually a little more sophisticated than most.


Continued Success,
KFB

Thx Asym:

"...The double/double vs double/anything else ratio is 1:3, we'll wait for a situation where this ratio is moderately/heavily shifted towards the left (the strongest, the better), then starting to bet in order to get an isolated double apparition or isolated double sequence (isolated double correction).

That's one of the most "balanced" propositions we've found out in our long term trials...."

that's a good one. I think you will agree there are a couple (very similar & related) that are productive too.

The key for the above triggers (et al) similar ones is to have patience and wait for the set up. Some shoes may not have very many set ups. I perceive that's what gets most players is they simply can not stand to wait/just watch.


Just my opinion.

Asym quoting from above:

"..."Probably those who constantly win have learned to think that the HE is the least problem to face, yet we don't know a single successful player confiding that his/her main profit comes out from wagering the side bets."

And you are absolutely correct.  But si..."

I travel and play with two Bac dealers. I frequently ask them et al dealers: How do the most consistent winner(& losers) play?

     The consensus response is always something to the nature of : don't bet side wagers, money management, and press into an identifiable event. Always reset back to your base bet and do NOT ever chase with a martingale type betting regime.
Two of these dealers dealt in the high-limit rooms in vegas for nine years. They said some of the least-skilled players are also the largest-buyin players. Usually the largest buyins are from players that don't make their full time employment from the tables. Often business owners that can replenish the bankroll from other non-gaming sources.,...etc. So they can bet bonus bets, chase with a martingale,...etc.
     

Continued Success,

     

Good win /trip report. I do not see the pics you referenced*.

I like that you use the bonus bet wins to enable a larger base bet(P or B).

"...*The point where I took the picture, I already won 2 Panda 8s, 3 Fortune 7s, 2 three card 9-0s (wagering bankers plus dragon bonus), netting me greater than $8,000.

There were lots of dragon bonuses on both sides as well.  Bankers had several three card 8s with players having 0 or 1.  Both sides had over 25 dragon bonuses paying out between 2:1 and 10:1 consistently. The shoe ended with 5 Fortune 7s and 4 Panda 8s total. ..."


"with 5 Fortune 7s..."
     Im guessing you wager every hand for the Fortune7 to catch that many.

     I think this shoe was a bit of an outlier. Probability for a Fortune7 is (.02254) so approx 1:44 .



Continued Success To All,

It seems like the casino could detect these scams a bit faster.


https://cdcgaming.com/top-casino-scam-of-2025-hidden-camera-in-mickey-mouse-t-shirt/

Link below. Key points from the article:

Eleven-player baccarat team executed sophisticated casino cheating scheme in Zurich
Hidden phone camera captured card sequence to predict baccarat shoe
Casino surveillance review exposed the scam after suspicious $180K win



https://www.casino.org/news/inside-the-180k-baccarat-cheating-plot-that-almost-fooled-a-zurich-casino/

This will be interesting. I suspect we will see dozens more involved. Of course the NBA, NCAA, and most media will attempt to downplay all of this fraud. i recently saw several similar (betting on their games) cases at the collegiate level too.

AsymBacGuy above in post 1490:

"...Variance is in direct relationship of the number of hands played (or observed) and not about time fragments, so as players we can easily expect many 1 hour losing sessions in a row and maybe a 24 hour session could be a terrific winning session not comparable with many 1 hour winning sessions.

So as long as we play with a verified long term advantage, we'll expect to win money regardless of the time sessions (and actual short term results) so the more we play and the more we win (in the exact same way casinos are confident to separate money from their customers' pockets)..."

Both phrases in BOLD are key in my opinion.

One needs to thoroughly understand the Variance for ones chosen bet selection.

The second phrase "Verified Long-Term Advantage" (meaning % > than casinos' written-in edge), is what we should base our other key metrics: bet size to buyin.

If one knows they have a verified advantage one should try to get as much money, as mathematically efficient (as a f(x) of advantage) as possible, as often as possible.

*I encourage all players to total all wagers placed and then divide their NET+$(or Net-$) into that. Most players do not realize the grand total of all the wagers they place in a single shoe. Pay attention to this tiny metric (%ratio), and what limit this tiny metric will tend to approach "as a Limit".

I observe many players dinking/donking at table min(& significantly less than optimal) based on their buyin(& known bankroll).
The main issue from wagering too small is one can't "move the needle" (i.e., bankroll). Yes one may delay busting a buyin with this dinking/donking.

However, the capacity to compound ones tiny advantage (i.e., vibrate), up through ones bankroll will swamp all those busted buyins.


Continued Success To All,

alrelax in OP

"...There are basically 14 presentment trends,.."

Thx for listing.

I had not considered the "Ties Cut Ties Stick .
----------------------------------------------------------

AsymBacGuy above:

1 Side Heavy Building 3rd Card (Repetitive)
1 Side Extreme Reduction 3rd Card (Repetitive)


I think this has some merit as a benchmark(especially if used in tandem with other related triggers).

Although I won't be wagering on this I do think Caesars will have a new owner in the near future(Or at least will go through another restructuring). However, IMO it will happen after 1/1/27.
So if I was forced to bet I would go NO.
?What say you?

According to Kalshi this is the proposition:  "If any company announces an agreement to acquire Caesars Entertainment Inc before Jan 1, 2027, then the market resolves to Yes. The announcement must involve a definitive, binding agreement accompanied by public announcement. Letters of intent, memoranda of understanding, or agreements in principle do not qualify.


https://cdcgaming.com/commentary/betting-on-a-new-caesar/

Your Guide to Ladder Betting Online in 2026 (Link at the very bottom)

I do not wager sports in this manner. However, the headline caught my attention. As I play with a Baccarat player that does something similar to Ladder Betting on Bac. He will wager approx >=24-36 wagers on P or B(Not necessarily in same shoe).
If he is winning he does not do a ladder.

If he is down 1/2 of his total number of bets at anytime he will start wagering for a Panda at an amount that will make him even again.
If he draws down further he will then start wagering for Dragon7 at an amount that will make him even again.

If for example he has attempted to get even on Panda, then Dragon7, and still not even(But then sees the other bonus bet hit(when he wasn't on it), he will then switch to the bonus bet that just hit.
Again, always wagering so that a win will get him even. If he ever gets even he starts in again with only P or B.

Im not an advocate for (or against) this approach as I have never played like this.
He has only been doing this for about 6 months.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


https://readwrite.com/gambling/guides/ladder-betting/

Baccarat Trip Report

Reflections on a Seven-Day Out-of-Local Market Casino Run

I recently completed a seven-day out-of-my-market baccarat trip.

Below, I'll detail some highlights and lowlights from the excursion.


Typical Wager Strategy and Trip Frequency

Some of my regular playing companions from this forum know that whenever I accumulate five or more pressed-up wagers at the table maximum in my local casino markets (typically $4,000 or $5,000), I set aside two of those five maximum wagers for a trip to a casino market where the table maximum exceeds $5,000. If Im fortunate enough to reach seven wagers pressed up to $5,000, I set aside three for a future trip, and so on. If I do get this favor, I travel interstate for baccarat.  Usually every three to four weeks, though sometimes it's >= eight to ten weeks between trips.

This particular trip, I only had three pressed-up wagers. I went one win and two losses, with the win losing on its very next attempt. Overall, it was less productive than I would have liked.

Casino Access

My main motivation for these out-of-state trips is the desire to play pressed-up wagers as soon as possible to compound winnings. Living in casino country, I have access to approximately 120 casinos within a three-hour drive. Unfortunately, I have to drive a couple hours to play at a casino with a  >$5K Table Max.

Current Trip Overview

Sports Betting

Sports bets:
Typically I try to find the best EV+ wager and choose  one per diem.  This trip I couldn't find one every day. So only three wagers for the whole week. I had one win and two losses, resulting in a net gain of 0.588 units. On my previous trip, I had placed a single sports wager and parlayed all wins for a $4,000 net win from a $240 BaseUnit(BU). This time, my optimism for a repeat faded quickly after losing my first two wagers and not finding many positive expected value (EV+) opportunities. I am generally indifferent to the sport, team, or individual I bet on, relying mostly on analytics. Sometimes I wager on hockey in Canada, tennis tournaments, boxing, or other events, and typically don't watch the matches, only checking the scores occasionally during the event.

I use AI to sort through all sporting events and identify the one to three highest EV+ offerings for the day, then tweak my selections using personal criteria to place one bet per day. Some days, there are no EV+ wagers worth considering (I prefer EV+ greater than 10.0 for further research).


Baccarat Sessions

Baccarat: I won all sessions except one. However, only a few easy shoes/sessions.

The losing session was due in part to leaving for a previously scheduled dinner while I was down 2.7 base units. After returning about an hour later, I made up the loss and left with a gain of 7.3 base units. Normally, I wouldn't record this as a loss, treating it like a routine break.

In my home market, a typical day at the casino involves playing four to seven shoes over eight to fourteen hours. I usually record four to seven sessions, though sometimes I play five to seven shoes and record only two to four sessions due to ongoing pressed-up wagers, even though I may be Net- until that larger wager(s) are decisioned. This trip mirrored these typical routines: I played all day, every day. Though often drawing down after one or more shoes and continuing until I was positive or busted  my buy-in. Thankfully I didn't bust any buyins but that is very difficult as I don't chase when guessing wrong. The key metric is having at least one active pressed-up wager. I always feel if I have 1-3  pressed-up wagers that haven't been decisioned I can overcome any initial drawdown. I just need one to slip through the cracks.

Side Note:

Compounding is a very powerful tool IMO as I do not perceive I could survive day in and day out wagering only Flat. In other words I perceive it is important for a player to know the average Wins-In-A-Row one gets from X# of tries(The buy in). Because some days I guess wrong more than I guess correct.

Back to the trip report

This interstate journey was uneventful for the most part. My largest per-shoe win was only 16.7 base units. Most shoes and sessions started with struggles, but I would eventually return to the positive. After all pressed-up wagers were resolved, I called it a session, or a end to the day, usually with just a few base units net win.

Free Play and Food Offers

FREEPLAY: I had $1,750 in free play, which I converted into a $905 gain. So not as good as I expected/hoped.

FREE Food Offers:
There was an abundance of food offers, but I generally don't eat in casinos. Most offers were used on  two players who traveled to meet me. It's not about the quality of food in most casinos; I'm just particular, avoiding fried, fast foods, and buffets, and prefer not to spend an hour eating when I could be playing.

Even at home markets casinos, I seldom eat during the day, opting to give away offers or take food to go. Some casinos in my local market allow one to use food vouchers at the snack counter or gift shop. I usually get bottles of Gatorade or coffee beans,...etc to take home.

On this trip, my host kindly booked a $200 dinner at a nice restaurant, anticipating my wife would be traveling with me. She didn't, so I attempted to eat for two,lol,  managing $140 worth:

Calamari with jalapeños as an appetizer, pan-seared scallops, and filet mignon.
All were excellent, though I wouldn't want them daily. I hadn't eaten filet mignon in about twenty years, preferring T-bone steak (grilled at home per my personal recipe), over ribeye, porterhouse, filet mignon,...etc. Nonetheless, the comped dinner was very good and appreciated.

A Couple Of The More Interesting Shoes

One shoe featured eleven consecutive columns of twos (e.g., ppbbpp, etc.). I went zero for two in the middle of the streak, trying to predict a one-in-a-row streak to break the 2x2 run,  then finally caught three wins near the end. Since it was late in the run, I parlayed+ the first W, then reduced to one base unit, and rode it to the finish. Obviously, I didn't capitalize as much as I usually would on such a long run of any similar streak. I kept seeing conflicting intel and was wrong.

The same shoe also had four streaks of four-in-a-row that each extended to five-in-a-row, though not consecutive columns. I guessed wrong twice, betting a four-in-a-row wouldn't become five.
Shortly after the above two-by-two streak ended, I caught a long one-by-one chop that went seven-in-a-row, finishing the shoe with a W of only +8.3 base units and one pressed-up wager left alive for a future shoe.


Another Interesting Shoe

Another shoe had a grouping of eleven player-in-a-row, followed by a sixteen banker-in-a-row just a few columns later. I was at the next table, hoping for a seat, but no one left. Two players fighting the player streak busted and rebought, but I was never able to switch tables.

In nearly three decades of play, including eight-plus years of full-time, 5.5—6.5 days per week of live table action, I've only seen one sixteen-in-a-row chop and one sixteen-player streak. I don't recall ever seeing two lengthy streaks of eleven and sixteen in the same shoe. Occasionally, I've seen two runs of something reach maybe eleven or twelve each(as best I can recall).

Sometimes, baccarat friends in other U. S. States or Macau send photos of boards showing runs of seventeen, nineteen, or even twenty-five in-a-row, usually after the table closes for the night. As it seems there are never players around.  I wonder if casinos make these entries after the night's last shoe for advertising "or torment me", lol.
Recently, an acquaintance sent an image of a twenty-nine-in-a-row Prun from what appeared as an online casino, but he said he wasn't on the streak nor playing at the time, so the source is unclear.

It seems some players upon arrival drift through a 8—12 table baccarat pit, snapping pictures of extreme boards for their YouTube channels or forums. I guess it makes for good conversation.

Unique Event on the Trip

One night, while playing baccarat near the craps table, a friend—a full-time player of blackjack, Texas Hold'em, baccarat, and only occasionally roulette or craps—finished his baccarat session and told me he was going to check out the craps table. He usually plays craps only a couple of times a month, . Ofwaiting on a Bac table to open. Typically sticking to line bets (pass or don't pass) and sometimes taking odds.

After about twenty minutes, he signaled to me to come over, showing a chip rack with about $5,000 profit from a $10,000 buy-in. I gave him a thumbs up and returned to my seat at the baccarat table.

The craps table grew loud and attracted a crowd; about 45m--hour later, my friend was up over $11,000 when the roll ended. Another acquaintance, that mostly plays poker/Bac, and typically betting $1,800 as his base bet, won $138,000 from a $25,000 buy-in, thanks to some shooter tossing excessive repeaters, though only making a few points. My friend only wagers the line (points), and occasionally one other bet. So he didn't make much on this high-repeater hand.

A Humorous End to a Long Day

On one night around midnight, several of us who played together about 14 hrs that day decided to call it a day. One local, whom I'd played with many times, but don't know personally, had done very well—up about $45,000 on his typical $20K buy in .

Most of us cashed out between $7,000 and $12,000 from buy-ins of maybe $5,000 to $10,000, so our cashouts were handled quickly by the two cashier clerks.

Mr. $45K winner then approached the VIP window with around $65,000. One clerk had just left for a break, leaving just one. It took about fifteen minutes for this clerk to handle his chips, counting and verifying each $10,000 stack of USD repeatedly, running through the auto counter, going into the back and getting someone to come out to verify. While a growing line of players waiting to cash out grew frustrated. Some started making snide remarks about "He must be a Baccarat plaer, high-stakes baccarat players taking so long for cashouts, those damn Asian players,...etc", "making them wait in line", making a request to the lone clerk to call someone else out to help, and on and on. My group had already checked out and was waiting for him, so we were just standing to the side/chatting about all the people complaining in line.

A security guard, waiting to escort our friend to his car, finally turned to the crowd and said, "You all sound like my grandkids whining. There's only one clerk, so just chill." We found that amusing. Our friend calmly picked up his  six $10,000 stacks and another $5,000–$6,000 bundle, and just tossed into his brown carry-out food bag, like it was no big deal,  and walked right through the middle of some of the complaining folks, requiring them to step aside for him.

We all walked out together, slowly migrating toward the elevators and escalators, paused for a couple mins, to discuss when and where to play the next morning. We were getting ready to depart on the escalator. The security guard and Mr. $65K were taking the elevator, to the parking garage. The security guard then informed everyone else waiting they'd have to wait for the next elevator. More complaints followed as a couple of those waiting were also from that initial whining group at the cage. That made us laugh as we headed down the escalator.  It seems some folks just love to complain about anything.

Thanks for reading,

Good list.


"...There are basically 14 presentment trends,.."

What are the 14?  thx in advance.


".. Change your responses. The presentments will not change your wagers. Your wagering must change and conform to the presentments..."
    I concur.

"...be super careful of bringing today's societal aura of 'Instant Everything' to the bac table...."

Yes indeed. The key IMO regardless of how one may choose to attack the shoe:
Patience/Discipline and be willing to watch/wait for that EV+ spot. There may only be a few (3-5 spots) in many shoes.


Continued Success,

I concur.
Unfortunately, for the current NewYorkers that whole area of NY(all five boroughs including Manhattan) is increasingly becoming an unlivable cesspool. The political nonsense, lawlessness, no consequences for crime, taxing the working folks(to give free stuff) to the free loaders has even bled over into surrounding areas. Such as N Jersey(Bergen County),..etc. The one question I would like the media to ask Mandami when he comes up with another FREE social program is : "Who will pay for this?".

Ok back to baccarat.

I wish all New Yorkers the best going forward.