Thx for post.

Yes, I play alot of shoes and set in front of many hands(I just don't wager on many).

*I play with a man that plays similar to Alrelax (I perceive). Though I've never played with or met alrelax. So just from what he posts/my perception(I may be incorrect).

This fellow bac mate doesn't cover ALL the bonus bets at once. However, he wagers on one or two bonus bets once thewy have been triggered,  at the same time, along with a base bet(P or B). He is very disciplined and presses back and forth with winnings from either (bonus bets--base bets) and always bets a little more on whatever just hit(P,B, Panda8,Fortune7,...etc). In other words he tries to use the just-won monies to feed larger wagers.

Like me he feels that if something has been activated it is more probable to hit one more time(Vs an event that has never occurred in this shoe and to bet with the hypothesis it will now present "just for me" at this given moment of time).

**A couple days ago we had both played about 10hours that day and the past 6hours at the same two tables. It had been rough sailing for most of day.

I was up approx 500-600, and he was down 850(just after he had won a few hands in close proximity). We were both very tired and each had about a two hour drive in front of us(about 10pm). He stands up and tells the pit "color coming in", and I say out loud "we've got a quitter". We all laugh along with the pit boss and dealer laughing as they knew we had been there along time. As he stands up the dealer deals a bonus win on the panda 8.
My table mate  then says Ok Im back in and then adds: "I know Im probably going to regret this". In a matter of probably 20moins he hits two bonus bets (25:1, and 50:1), then a Fortune7 at 40:1. He jumps up and says Im gone(and whispers to me "I was down 850/closest to even I had been all day, and now Im up over $6K).

As he is waiting for the pit to verify the color up he then teases me: "You gotta bet the Fortune7". As he knows I seldom bet any bonus bets and only occasionally wager the F7 and typically only when Im at a critical pressed-up size/want to do a partial hedge on what I have in the wager,...etc.

I was glad for him. Sometimes Variance smiles up on us. This guy is a veteran player and has a solid money management system in place. I just don't care for the Variance involved as I have plenty volatility trying to navigate a simple base bet(P or B), lol.

I colored up a short time later still near the same balance.



Continued Success To All,

Quote from: KungFuBac on March 25, 2026, 04:56:37 AMI travel and play with two Bac dealers. I frequently ask them et al dealers: How do the most consistent winner(& losers) play?

    The consensus response is always something to the nature of : don't bet side wagers, money management, and press into an identifiable event. Always reset back to your base bet and do NOT ever chase with a martingale type betting regime.
Two of these dealers dealt in the high-limit rooms in vegas for nine years. They said some of the least-skilled players are also the largest-buyin players. Usually the largest buyins are from players that don't make their full time employment from the tables. Often business owners that can replenish the bankroll from other non-gaming sources.,...etc. So they can bet bonus bets, chase with a martingale,...etc.
   

Continued Success,

   

I agree on a general point.  Especially if one (pro or very experienced) plays consistently and a great amount of shoes. 

However I have developed an allocation of MMM from winnings, a portion of my risk capital and certain winnings go into my wagering ammunition for the side betting.  I have certain parameters I follow, especially in the beginning of shoes. 

My overall 'hit' ratio has been 3 successful out of 4/5 sessions with a considerable amount of side bets hit as shown in my pictures with 3-5 sizable side bets won for the one or two shoes I play in a session.  And, those 3 successful side bet session hits produce way more profits than the 1-2 sessions I failed to cover my side betting investment allocations. 

I do not play anywhere near the amount of shoes you guys are playing these days.  So maybe that is a factor? 

In my MMM I do have rock solid resetting and pos progressive winning protocols, etc., etc.  My 'Sections' and '1/3-1/3-1/3' are my other two advantages serving me extremely well over the long run. 

Thanks, Alrelax

I agree.
This scam was actually a little more sophisticated than most.


Continued Success,
KFB

Thx Asym:

"...The double/double vs double/anything else ratio is 1:3, we'll wait for a situation where this ratio is moderately/heavily shifted towards the left (the strongest, the better), then starting to bet in order to get an isolated double apparition or isolated double sequence (isolated double correction).

That's one of the most "balanced" propositions we've found out in our long term trials...."

that's a good one. I think you will agree there are a couple (very similar & related) that are productive too.

The key for the above triggers (et al) similar ones is to have patience and wait for the set up. Some shoes may not have very many set ups. I perceive that's what gets most players is they simply can not stand to wait/just watch.


Just my opinion.

Asym quoting from above:

"..."Probably those who constantly win have learned to think that the HE is the least problem to face, yet we don't know a single successful player confiding that his/her main profit comes out from wagering the side bets."

And you are absolutely correct.  But si..."

I travel and play with two Bac dealers. I frequently ask them et al dealers: How do the most consistent winner(& losers) play?

     The consensus response is always something to the nature of : don't bet side wagers, money management, and press into an identifiable event. Always reset back to your base bet and do NOT ever chase with a martingale type betting regime.
Two of these dealers dealt in the high-limit rooms in vegas for nine years. They said some of the least-skilled players are also the largest-buyin players. Usually the largest buyins are from players that don't make their full time employment from the tables. Often business owners that can replenish the bankroll from other non-gaming sources.,...etc. So they can bet bonus bets, chase with a martingale,...etc.
     

Continued Success,

     

Good win /trip report. I do not see the pics you referenced*.

I like that you use the bonus bet wins to enable a larger base bet(P or B).

"...*The point where I took the picture, I already won 2 Panda 8s, 3 Fortune 7s, 2 three card 9-0s (wagering bankers plus dragon bonus), netting me greater than $8,000.

There were lots of dragon bonuses on both sides as well.  Bankers had several three card 8s with players having 0 or 1.  Both sides had over 25 dragon bonuses paying out between 2:1 and 10:1 consistently. The shoe ended with 5 Fortune 7s and 4 Panda 8s total. ..."


"with 5 Fortune 7s..."
     Im guessing you wager every hand for the Fortune7 to catch that many.

     I think this shoe was a bit of an outlier. Probability for a Fortune7 is (.02254) so approx 1:44 .



Continued Success To All,

It seems like the casino could detect these scams a bit faster.


https://cdcgaming.com/top-casino-scam-of-2025-hidden-camera-in-mickey-mouse-t-shirt/

Quote from: albertojonas on March 22, 2026, 10:43:51 PMMay you direct me into these posts please?

Suppose your trigger is a FRESH 3/3+ streak.
You want to classify the next pattern being either another 3/3+ streak (cluster) or anything else (that is a single or a double so making that 3/3+ streak as isolated).
Of course after a 3/3+ streak came out as clustered you don't want to go further so waiting until a new 3 streak shows up.
You register how many times a (1/2) or another 3 had shown up knowing that the expected ratio is 3:1.
Even though occasional deviations could be harsh in a way or another, there's a constant force acting toward a balanced ratio after a given deviation happened, especially after some clustered 3s and especially when the 3/3+ streak is at B side (making more probable short predominant patterns at B, so leaving few room to 3/3+ P streaks suddendly balancing the previous B same streak).

The same classification could be made for clusters of 2 vs superior clusters, clusters of 3 vs superior clusters and so on.

Normally here it's the back-to-back shoes registration that counts as single shoes may be affected by huge volatility and  no balancement.
 
as.

As they said, "It was an audacious scheme and brilliantly executed. But the group made one fatal mistake: they came back for more. Two days later, they returned to Swiss Casinos Zurich to play punto banco again — and this time the police were waiting."

Greed will ALWAYS GET THEM.  I am remembering the Tran Gang (complex well executed baccarat USA scheme performed numerous times), greed, greed and more greed.

One doesn't realize, casinos send emails and video footage to their peers of scams, schemes and strange appearing 'things'.

Link below. Key points from the article:

Eleven-player baccarat team executed sophisticated casino cheating scheme in Zurich
Hidden phone camera captured card sequence to predict baccarat shoe
Casino surveillance review exposed the scam after suspicious $180K win



https://www.casino.org/news/inside-the-180k-baccarat-cheating-plot-that-almost-fooled-a-zurich-casino/