Mistakes & Best Defensive and Offensive

[alrelax]

I can write all day long about each one, but for lack of input from all the readers here, I'm going to restrain myself and just outline what reminds me of advantaged play with a little guideline chart that I have for myself.

Most Mistakes/Mistaken

1). Play too long
2). Chasing losses
3). Chasing a singular win
4). When it's there, you fail to wager and/or pump it up
5). When it's not (NOT) there, you fail to stop
6). Constantly increasing Bankroll and Buy-in amounts
7). Failure to have a rock solid M.M.M.
#8).Failure to Reset and/or abide by your Tier/Plateau 

Best Defensive & Offensive

1). Keep game relatively short
2). Believing it will all change soon if you are 100% alert
3). Change your responses to be in control, you create what happens with your wagering and no one else does
4). Long term strength is M.M.M. applied and used as a protocol along with your emotions recognized and controlled while applying
5). You do not have to have all the knowledge and experience
6). Gear your mind towards the shoe, not a limited event(s) to occur or reoccur


Discover and align yourself with the various (1) Protocols - (2) Opportunities and (3) Reality of what a shoe presenting itself offers.  (4) Be Careful, (5) Be Conscious and (6) Be 100% Unbiased. Not easy but if you remember those you will give yourself true advantages IMO and experience.

[AsymBacGuy]

That's a very interesting topic I'll make my comments later.

as.

[AsymBacGuy]

Most mistakes/mistaken

1) Play too long

If one thinks to play with an edge it doesn't matter how short or long are the sessions played, providing that the mental focus isn't declining for fatigue or bankroll status issues.


2) Chasing losses

Yep.
Card distributions are totally insensitive of our bankroll status and statistically speaking it's slight more probable to collect more losses after losing than to recoup everything or something already lost.


3) Chasing a singular win

Sooner or later we'll have to stop a losing sequence, that doesn't mean to chase losing streaks that can last 10-12 or more hands in a row.
3/4 of the times, winning is a clustered W affair, so there's no reason to bet when a L streak keep showing up or (more importantly) when wins come out as isolated.   

4) When it's there, you fail to wager and/or pump it up.

Here the problem is knowing "when is there" but the main factor why casinos keep collecting more money than expected by the HE is because players will be particularly aggressive when losing but cautious (or overly aggressive) while winning.

5) When it's not (NOT) there, you fail to stop
 
Excellent point.
Whenever it seems we're not guessing right a single hand, stay put and don't bet a dime.
Wait several hands before betting again or, even better, wait for the next shoe to be dealt.
The concept that every shoe dealt is beatable is a total complete bighornsh.i.t.

6) Constantly increasing Bankroll and Buy-in amounts

Another good point.
It takes a robust and verified long term W/L ratio before thinking to raise our standard bets as the house is constantly getting the favorite math side.

7) Failure to have a rock solid M.M.M.

In our opinion and after having verified a kind of an edge (and natural deviations), the best move to take is flat betting the maximum limit at the table. Or what we consider "max" in relationship of our bankroll.

#8) Failure to Reset and/or abide by your Tier/Plateau

Here we disagree.
We do not want to insert subjective factors into the game, unless affecting our future strategy (but since we've ascertained an edge we know that any kind of subjective adjustment will be worthless) 
 
Best defensive and offensive

1) Keep game relatively short

Good point if intended as short betting options into the realm of results.

2) Believing it will all change soon if you are 100% alert

One of the paramount factor to transform a loser into a possible winner.

3) Change your responses to be in control, you create what happens with your wagering and no one else does

Best advice ever.

4) Long term strength is M.M.M. applied and used as a protocol along with your emotions recognized and controlled while applying

Again, flat betting is the only way to ascertain a kind of long term advantage.

5) You do not have to have all the knowledge and experience

We completely disagree about this point.
Baccarat is a very complicated game needing years of experience and study to be possibly "resolved" on long terms.

6) Gear your mind towards the shoe, not a limited event(s) to occur or reoccur

Absolutely true, providing to assess the limit of average intervention.

as. 

[alrelax]

Most mistakes/mistaken

1) Play too long

If one thinks to play with an edge it doesn't matter how short or long are the sessions played, providing that the mental focus isn't declining for fatigue or bankroll status issues.

Absolutely, to clarify my statement was NOT made to only endorse a short/session play. It took into consideration; fatigue, emotions, losses/wins, as well as the bankroll and buy-in status, etc.  Also something that I determine in the beginning of most any session is winning, losing, or hovering around even. Whatever happens quickly will make a determination in my mind which way I should go with the length of the session. As weird as it sounds, that took me a long time to even figure out.

2) Chasing losses

Yep.
Card distributions are totally insensitive of our bankroll status and statistically speaking it's slight more probable to collect more losses after losing than to recoup everything or something already lost.

In addition, if lost, (IF) and make that a huge if, you recoup be careful at the point right there. So so many times I have done just that, recouped and then aggressively went after a win. Nope, gave it all back countless times and never to recoup a second time. Remember that please.

3) Chasing a singular win

Sooner or later we'll have to stop a losing sequence, that doesn't mean to chase losing streaks that can last 10-12 or more hands in a row.
3/4 of the times, winning is a clustered W affair, so there's no reason to bet when a L streak keep showing up or (more importantly) when wins come out as isolated. 

True about the clustered win affairs. Reference Thad not betting after an L or L streak. Fine line, however if no bet-no wins. Does that put you into a more 'alert' and/or attentive status and the such? It does me at times, but no one relishes to be in the L status and streak.

4) When it's there, you fail to wager and/or pump it up.

Here the problem is knowing "when is there" but the main factor why casinos keep collecting more money than expected by the HE is because players will be particularly aggressive when losing but cautious (or overly aggressive) while winning.

IMO and experience, must pump it up while winning. Flat goes back to cover losses, so those wins are only a short time, (within a section) protection and fuel. My real wins are the ones that are substantial ones and they come from positive progressions and parlaying my win money on top of the base unit when I get on win streaks.

A person needs to strengthen and support their buy-in with wins. Wins that are quickly accumulated will be much easier by far with positive progressions and parlaying than those accumulated by flat betting. Because of those wins accumulated by flat betting also have to cover the losses occurred currently, while attempting to cover those previously. Hence. The grind!



5) When it's not (NOT) there, you fail to stop

Excellent point.
Whenever it seems we're not guessing right a single hand, stay put and don't bet a dime.
Wait several hands before betting again or, even better, wait for the next shoe to be dealt.
The concept that every shoe dealt is beatable is a total complete bighornsh.i.t.

6) Constantly increasing Bankroll and Buy-in amounts

Another good point.
It takes a robust and verified long term W/L ratio before thinking to raise our standard bets as the house is constantly getting the favorite math side.

7) Failure to have a rock solid M.M.M.

In our opinion and after having verified a kind of an edge (and natural deviations), the best move to take is flat betting the maximum limit at the table. Or what we consider "max" in relationship of our bankroll.

Flat betting in my opinion should not be max table limit. But I guess one needs to examine how long his play will be and if he can as well, as how many possible wins/losses he can stand doing such with his current buy-in.

#8) Failure to Reset and/or abide by your Tier/Plateau

Here we disagree.
We do not want to insert subjective factors into the game, unless affecting our future strategy (but since we've ascertained an edge we know that any kind of subjective adjustment will be worthless)

More explanations and detailing out I wish to do. We all have them and most don't even know what tier and plateaus are within their play. What we are comfortable with, what our buy-in supports. What and how easy the wins were and how much we won. Example, buy-in $2,500, drawdown $750, won $3,000. Sitting with $4,750 on the rail. If you are comfortable and desire the $1,750 call it a session, done and finished. Cash out.

However, I would play if I wasn't struggling. I would go back to my plateau with the $2500 buy-in. Make it whole again.  $1,750 now locked up in my pocket. I would revert back to a smaller base unit wager than what I won the $1,750 with (taking into consideration whatever amount that was, was my base betting unit). If I won two straight wagers, I would parlay one, and then just go with the third one on, pulling down the winning amounts. So say I had previously been wagering $300-$500 range, that I accumulated the $1,750 win with and the buy-in drawdown I recovered, I remain totally conscious of that base unit and the comfortableness and security it afforded/affords my wagering.

I don't subscribe to nor do I flat bet with real consistency.  I want the wins to compile quick and fast, I want the losses to be as small as possible. 

Continuing the example from above.  Back down to a 'base' wager (hence not a flat betting amount), say $200 and win, next wager $400 and win, sitting with a final bet of $800.  My next wager would either be $500 or the whole $800. If I won, it goes along with another $500 out of my $2,500 original buy-in sitting there and $2,000 of that goes into my pocket, for a total of $3,750 locked up. If I lost, my rail money would be $2,000 or $2,300 if the bet was $500 and I would attempt another win streak with that amount at my disposal. If I could not win additional with that rail money, so be it. If I did, once again sort out additional amounts won to lock up with the $3,750 while increasing my amount on the rail.

When I am winning multiple hands, I go well above my plateau. However when I am not winning, I revert/stay or perhaps go under my plateau level.  IMO and My Experience............Win MORE, Lose LESS. 

Reason Being.  IMO and Experience, you can win, lose or draw even for a session. REALITY.  WINNING. We all desire to win. Generally, winning requires a drawdown of your buy-in. Generally, winning will be accompanied by losing hands as well. Losing happens and none of us desire that. Of course gamblers with greater experience expect just that and accept it with anticipation and even strategic use. Others, losing just several hands can and will cause devastation to their buy-in amount(s).  BREAKING EVEN. Always talked about, seldom an outcome for those that came to gamble in a casino. Breaking even is usually a temporary status between winning and complete buy-in loss. I'm talking hard-core and real-life facts here. 

For myself, IMO and I stress my experience, your tier/plateau should be considered as an advantage for your play as well as incorporated into your rocksolid MMM.

Tier/Plateaus can be your second nature guide for some kind of wagering position guide, when you are not on a wild win streak.

Tier/Plateaus can be your second nature 'go to' betting amount when you have no feeling or you entered the inevitable losing hand realm. 

[AsymBacGuy]

I'll be back later on this interesting thread

as.

[AsymBacGuy]

Ok, now I understand better what you're referring about any player's "Tier/Plateau".

as.

[KungFuBac]

Good post/comments.

I agree with most. I find it helpful to treat ones time at the table just as one would if your job was a daytrader in other investment markets. There are so many similarities. Mainly in regard to budgeting, goals, stop loss, and most importantly mental management. I do realize treating ones gaming as an investment or business is not for everyone. It could also removes the "fun" from the casino in my opinion. I realize some play for fun or get-away from the daily grind of life. There is not a thing wrong with that approach either.

Most Mistakes/Mistaken

1). Play too long
    I often play 8-12 hours of actual table time per day. This is actual time in front of a table. Not just hanging at the casino eating/drinking/chatting socially.

    One thing I've noticed is when Im getting tired I will accidentally place my wager on the wrong side of what I intended. I know I need to get on the road as Im mentally drained. what's interesting is I often win that bet,lol. I've wondered if my subconscious state was seeing things clearly(or just lucky). Either way I know Im too tired to be risking money.

2). Chasing losses

    IMO this is most players downfall/ the most common nemesis I see at the tables. It is my opinion Males have a little more difficulty with this as we are taught from an early age to win at all costs/never accept defeat. Sometimes retreat is a tactical option(In war and at the bac tables).

One needs to learn how to lose gracefully and just accept it as part of the game. Its no different then selecting the wrong stock or investment. We don't double down we simply exit that stock position and cut our losses. I see far too many players really beat themselves up mentally after a loss. I lose all the time and just accept it as part of the game.

3). Chasing a singular win
4). When it's there, you fail to wager and/or pump it up
5). When it's not (NOT) there, you fail to stop
6). Constantly increasing Bankroll and Buy-in amounts

    (6) This also depends on the type of wagers one primarily makes(e.g., even chance or highly volatile wagers).
IMO one should constantly look to compound their winnings into larger base bet and bankroll. Buyin will obviously be a function of the previous two(& table max allowed). Meaning don't increase anything when losing. Do increase winning Base Bets, Buyins, and Bankrolls. We never know if the winning streak will occur short-term(a run in one shoe), or long-term(across several shoes and session).

If one only wagers highly-volatile bonus bets then I would suggest keeping ones base bet as  a percent of buyin(So # of tries stays the same). Regardless of ones MM for wins it is important to never wager 100% of winnings back through. Put a certain % into an investment vehicle with a high intrinsic value(& completely removed from casino investments.


7). Failure to have a rock solid M.M.M.

    This is the whole ball game. Plus E.M.(Emotional or mental management).

#8).Failure to Reset and/or abide by your Tier/Plateau

Best Defensive & Offensive

1). Keep game relatively short
2). Believing it will all change soon if you are 100% alert
3). Change your responses to be in control, you create what happens with your wagering and no one else does
4). Long term strength is M.M.M. applied and used as a protocol along
    I concur 100%


Continued Success,