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Topic: ACETF BET  (Read 19834 times)

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Offline Blue_Angel

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Re: ACETF BET
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2016, 04:04:29 am »
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  • If your target is to "trap" series and intermittences that bet already exists and its name is "avant dernier" in English means before the last and such bet has been used extensively since more than a century ago.

    So are you trying to re-discover America?!

    You are not so innovative in my opinion, rather than recycling the same ole things why not to apply some tweaks which could twist the game in our favor?

    I've read all of your posts in this thread but out of so many words you don't propose something practical, just empty words.

    Personally I've deployed my twisted variations which I could share with you but I'm not so sure if I'm welcome here...
    ''For after all what is man in nature?
    A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
    The ends of things and their beginnings are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret.
    He is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness out of which he was drawn and the infinite in which he is engulfed.'' B.Pascal


    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #16 on: March 12, 2016, 04:33:48 pm »
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  • Rich,

    You are in the right direction but not quite there yet...

    The solution EXISTS and is practical too, why to take the long way when there is a shortcut...if you get my drift.

    Don't take me wrong, this is an effort of encouragement.

    I could share with you my insights but I won't tolerate any negativity towards me!

    If you want someone experienced who gambling is his profession to direct you in the right way, you'd better be respectful and grateful because nobody is obliged to assist no one, actually what usually happens is the opposite...!

    ''For after all what is man in nature?
    A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
    The ends of things and their beginnings are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret.
    He is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness out of which he was drawn and the infinite in which he is engulfed.'' B.Pascal

    Offline Big EZ

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #17 on: March 12, 2016, 11:09:13 pm »
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  • Blue


    I would like to hear your take on things
    Quitting while your ahead is not the same as quitting.

    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #18 on: March 12, 2016, 11:25:49 pm »
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  • Blue


    I would like to hear your take on things

    In time
    ''For after all what is man in nature?
    A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
    The ends of things and their beginnings are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret.
    He is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness out of which he was drawn and the infinite in which he is engulfed.'' B.Pascal

    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #19 on: March 13, 2016, 05:17:44 pm »
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  • Divide numbers in the following groups:

    Group A=> 1,3,5,7,9   (Low,Red,Odd)

    Group B=> 2,4,6,8,10  (Low,Black,Even)

    Group C=> 11,13,15,17 (Low,Black,Odd)

    Group D=> 12,14,16,18  (Low,Red,Even)

    Group E=> 19,21,23,25,27 (High,Red,Odd)

    Group F=> 20,22,24,26,28  (High,Black,Even)

    Group G=> 29,31,33,35 (High,Black,Odd)

    Group H=> 30,32,34,36 (High,Red,Even)

    Track each group separately, count the amount of appearances for each group.

    Bet straight up the numbers of the group with more hits, 1 unit on each number.

    If for example the group you are betting is: 19,21,23,25,27 bet simultaneously on Low,Black,Even with 9 units on each EC.

    When there is a change in the leadership of the groups then you change your bets accordingly.

    The point is to bet a small group of hot numbers and on the same time 3 relatively cold EC's, whatever wins you are in profit.

    If 1 of 4 numbers hits you are winning 5 units

    If 1 of 5 numbers hits you are winning 4 units

    If 3 of 3 EC's win while you are betting 4 numbers you are winning 23 units

    If 3 of 3 EC's win while you are betting 5 numbers you are winning 22 units

    If 2 of 3 EC's win while you are betting 4 numbers you are winning 5 units

    If 2 of 3 EC's win while you are betting 5 numbers you are winning 4 units

    When you win only 1 EC you are losing 13 units when betting 4 numbers and 14 units when betting 5 numbers

    I don't know if you think it's better to include 0 in your bet selection but if you don't bet it costs 31 to 32 units every time it hits.
    ''For after all what is man in nature?
    A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
    The ends of things and their beginnings are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret.
    He is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness out of which he was drawn and the infinite in which he is engulfed.'' B.Pascal

    Offline XXVV

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #20 on: March 24, 2016, 05:36:45 pm »
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  • I appreciate the suggestions of betting methodologies from Blue Angel and others. The last post by BA is most interesting and I encourage and applaud such work. My view now is to be inclusive, and not to close down options and views of others. It is unnecessary for any poster here however to express views on my personal position or philosophy because who would really know?
    Better to show good grace, respect and courtesy.

    The work behind the ACETF bet or any form of CWB is vast, and if such a bet exists then the work required to have produced this requires years of concentrated study, and it deserves great respect. In essence it would be compact and composed of inter-connected compartments or steps, and in the end, quite simple in the engineering sense, ie refined with no waste.

    Perhaps best to keep an open mind on such possibilities.

    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #21 on: March 27, 2016, 03:02:58 pm »
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  • Has any of you tried my suggestion?

    Personally I had very good results, actually the way I describe it had low profits for more than 500 spins with flat stakes. (betting all spins)

    Then I thought why not to get rid of the 3 EC bets and keep just the group of 4 to 5 numbers, so that's what I did and the profit has been skyrocketed!
    It was unbelievable the kind of frequency which the group was hitting (once every 4 to 5 spins), didn't even think about increasing the units!
    With the second variation did approximately 500 more spins and it was as consistent as it can be!

    I would like someone to confirm (or not) my findings, anyone?

    I'm not expecting Rich to reveal it because he is like Sphinx regarding CWB.
    ''For after all what is man in nature?
    A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
    The ends of things and their beginnings are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret.
    He is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness out of which he was drawn and the infinite in which he is engulfed.'' B.Pascal

    Offline XXVV

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #22 on: March 27, 2016, 07:00:13 pm »
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  • Divide numbers in the following groups:

    Group A=> 1,3,5,7,9   (Low,Red,Odd)

    Group B=> 2,4,6,8,10  (Low,Black,Even)

    Group C=> 11,13,15,17 (Low,Black,Odd)

    Group D=> 12,14,16,18  (Low,Red,Even)

    Group E=> 19,21,23,25,27 (High,Red,Odd)

    Group F=> 20,22,24,26,28  (High,Black,Even)

    Group G=> 29,31,33,35 (High,Black,Odd)

    Group H=> 30,32,34,36 (High,Red,Even)

    Track each group separately, count the amount of appearances for each group.

    Bet straight up the numbers of the group with more hits, 1 unit on each number.

    If for example the group you are betting is: 19,21,23,25,27 bet simultaneously on Low,Black,Even with 9 units on each EC.

    When there is a change in the leadership of the groups then you change your bets accordingly.

    The point is to bet a small group of hot numbers and on the same time 3 relatively cold EC's, whatever wins you are in profit.

    If 1 of 4 numbers hits you are winning 5 units

    If 1 of 5 numbers hits you are winning 4 units

    If 3 of 3 EC's win while you are betting 4 numbers you are winning 23 units

    If 3 of 3 EC's win while you are betting 5 numbers you are winning 22 units

    If 2 of 3 EC's win while you are betting 4 numbers you are winning 5 units

    If 2 of 3 EC's win while you are betting 5 numbers you are winning 4 units

    When you win only 1 EC you are losing 13 units when betting 4 numbers and 14 units when betting 5 numbers

    I don't know if you think it's better to include 0 in your bet selection but if you don't bet it costs 31 to 32 units every time it hits.

    Yes I appreciate the post BlueAngel.

    I simply suggest that the player runs an independent RB for 0 ( or 0 and 00) and run this parallel connecting quite independently previous sessions, and thereby aim to at least break even, ie tilt by means of (at least MM)  +2.7% or 5%, not too difficult.

    When the zero section(s) are hot then become more active and step/ stoke the units to take advantage, while winding back when cool.

    Regarding the EC's yes if they are merely a cool covering bet. Much smarter to play for the warm-hot areas and ignore the sleepers for they can be very unreliable and hibernate very long passages. Recall the recent reference to most emphasis on a prime method/ target so as not to be diminished by secondary or tertiary distractions. By maintaining focus on a primary tendency to warm-hot activity then it may be a genuine reason for why a suitably constructed bet can work to achieve sufficient edge to overcome the negative expectation game. Question is can the winning edge be suitably sustained by moving from group of 4 or 5 numbers - and is this the most effective and efficient grouping - why not one number or nine numbers. The answer may be in the observed variance over multiple large sample tests.

    I sincerely recommend multiple 3000 spin tests ( perhaps in parcels of live spin user friendly 100 spin packets) based on real session observation. Do not rely on live samples and then seamlessly divide . Live spin flows are connected threads and have their own unique signatures and opportunities.
    However if you are dealing with RNG sourced material cut and paste to suit.

    This is my personal view based on my own needs and optimisation of outcomes and is not necessarily applicable or mandatory for others who play  with differing methods. However it is quite logical that if you are representing warm-hot groups of numbers based on recent experience, then to cut randomly is counter productive.

    Having conducted a suitable sample test only then can one comment on this bet characteristic. Small samples are very misleading and results are often skewed by what we want to see, and thus we attract results that are temporarily favourable. I have often found this in testing what I thought were good ideas. However I feel that this is a very good idea and thank Blue Angel for sharing, and suggesting elimination of inefficient clutter.

    I will add to this comment also that a really useful test size is more like 300 spins or so being say a session from Wiesbaden, for testing purposes.

    But in practical terms live play can be set at 100 spins, ie 2 hours or so for one player.

    Then one needs to consider the strategic aspect to all this.

    Take profit when offered and if this bet can demonstrate a near break even performance average ( ranging between success and loss) abd if its efficiency can negate the house edge, then further efficiency can be obtained by live play continuation when winning, but stopping when losing. Sounds simple but it actually makes a lot of difference, especially if units can be stepped when winning and loss can be mitigated or stopped by stop loss. Simplicity is desirable when in a live casino situation.

    Internet RNG I would not play anyway because it is programmed to inter- actively beat the player.

    Live play can always be stopped by choice, especially when eliminating progressions. Winning cycles can be strengthened by stepping unit values conservatively.

    Do we monitor outcomes for 10, 18, 37 spins and then adjust with each new outcome thereafter?  I will look into this.

    Offline XXVV

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #23 on: March 28, 2016, 05:42:05 am »
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  • Well it does not take long to gain a feel for the potential of a bet once some serious testing through live spin data is commenced. With previous experience compounding it becomes quite clear the bet characteristics.

    The idea of playing the current  warmest of groups seems a worthwhile one but is simply too vulnerable to variance and dispersion. Testing for the worth of a bet should always be conducted flat staking. My test started well with the result from a 60 spin session played 48 hours ago. However the second test quickly showed the weakness in in this approach, and it really is not worthy of inclusion in a thread aimed at CWB quality. However I thought it did provide some good discussion points and I thank Blue Angel for his idea and variation.

    The essence of a CWB is the universal and consistent ability to deal with a wide range of spin threads, from favourable to hostile, and to be able to mitigate even the most difficult of circumstances. Much as I personally love and utilise inside table bets, the CWB I suspect will harness outside table bets in order to provide the looseness to deal with random spreads. Inside table bets are just too precise and thus are exposed to downside.

    As others have found through empirical research and published in this forum dozens enable suitable spread and sufficient return to deal with the necessary window through which a CWB must operate.

    The ACETF bet if it exists needs to provide a break even platform and from that as we have been told many times the bet within a bet must be developed. It is a game within a game. But there is no point in developing such an ingenious game unless the base is stable and genuinely break even, ie relatively small losses and small gains over a suitable large sample test.

    An example of a bet within a bet might be from my own private bet experience where I use certain phases of the WF structure bet where it is in a clustering phase, ie games are closing with 4 targets or less, and overlaid on top of that knowing that say 35 and 26 are WF targets making a focus target of the 9 number section on the european wheel extending  12  to 4  inclusive and with finales ending in 5,6  are targets - another nine number group. To jackpot the win-win-win is possible but even a win or better a win-win can be profitable- but we are trying for the triad. That is why I can sometimes focus on just a couple of numbers as targets, or even in rare cases just one, like my famous 36 I wrote about long ago. The scaffolding is invisible and only the polished result is exposed.

    Offline XXVV

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #24 on: March 28, 2016, 05:34:05 pm »
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  • Do you see what I am saying here.

    You carve out a stable platform using a favourable phase of a simple bet such as the WF. The distribution bell curve of bet outcomes shows that most occur in the 3-4 target range to close a game cycle of 22 spins. I have written about this and shared all this technique on this forum over the past several years.

    The outcomes though move from profit to loss as the temporary averages in a short cycle of 30-50-100 spins can shift from tight packed clusters of 1,2,3 targets ( very profitable flat staking) to looser clusters where 5-6-7 targets or more ( most I have seen is 17) close out a game cycle. These are losing games. The flat bet simple WF I play which I have written about for years is NOT of its own a winning bet, but it is a very useful tool and by using a selected small window of target play ( say from 1 target up to 4 targets) then this is a suitable stable and successful platform on which to build a bet within a bet approach bu overlaying another technique to ongoing spins.

    Now I am not going to discuss the private bet any more than I have already illustrated but for those who are able to join the dots it is not difficult to see. As an example I now have 1,2,3 targets through WF. Working 'backwards-forwards' I see what characteristics these numbers share ( wheel section, table position, finales, street, red or black, odd or even for example and I then apply the appropriate 'set' being the mode of cluster analysis play suitable ( say wheel section and street 3 and 26)  and aim to trap the target numbers but within a web of targets spun by awaiting the predictive ability of the private bet to trap A streets and zero wheel section, OR to use the reading of the game through the private bet to see where a temporary blockage to change is causing some clustering in outcomes that includes A streets and the zero wheel section.

    Thus in such circumstances the usual flat staking is applied to the street and wheel section targets ( 9 numbers and 9 numbers but some will overlap) and ALSO to load up 3 and 26 ( and immediate  neighbours if desired - table and wheel).

    These results may be win or win-win or win-win-win.

    Such strategy enables occasional very big payouts ( net efficiency) and when 2 or better 3 consecutive or near consecutive hits occur, this is an excellent time to quit and take profit. Great to finish a session with at least a double win. Because of the nature and phenomenon of clustering there is a higher than expected ( happens more often than one would expect from standard play) chance of targets doubling or even tripling.

    Sometimes this has happened to me so often I will cash up and see the next number also would have been a substantial hit ( say zero section for example) and where I usually 'anchor bet 0 or 0-00' have standard stepping bets throughout a session.

    There are some interesting and valuable ideas within this information.

    Offline GaMMoN

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #25 on: March 28, 2016, 09:48:16 pm »
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  • Thanks XXVV  for the insight.

    You mentioned a game cycle of 22 spins. Do you count spins (0 to 22) from the start or from WF1?

    When you have WF2 and you found a link between this 2 numbers, than you bet flat (9 numbers "family of bets") how long? 

    Up to WF5 or you have "stop loss" or "pause loss" point?




    Offline XXVV

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #26 on: March 28, 2016, 10:58:47 pm »
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  • All this is explained in my earlier posts on WF under appropriate headings.

    A game cycle averages 22 spins from 'start to finish'. Start is at the first qualifier, ie two shows of a prior number and we play for the third show.

    Quickest game is 1 spin.

    For example
    12
    12
    12  hit +35

    or

    12
    28
    7
    12
    12 hit +35

    However as you can imagine with some games being 10 targets or more before a third showing of any therein, the game cycle might last 50 spins.

    With multiple targets

    3
    12
    3    3
    28
    7
    0
    35
    12  12
    15
    19
    32
    0     0
    0    hit   in a 10 spin game cycle.

    These targets are all obviously in the zero section and I would play through for WF purposes up to no more than 40 units being spent as a Stop Loss flat staking. However when in winning mode you can aggressively step bets.  When in defensive mode ( loss/ corrective cycle) stop asap once you read the warning signals.

    My stop loss is usually the 5th target to show or 40 units or so whichever comes first.



    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #27 on: March 28, 2016, 11:09:30 pm »
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  • All this is explained in my earlier posts on WF under appropriate headings.

    A game cycle averages 22 spins from 'start to finish'. Start is at the first qualifier, ie two shows of a prior number and we play for the third show.

    Quickest game is 1 spin.

    For example
    12
    12
    12  hit +35

    or

    12
    28
    7
    12
    12 hit +35

    However as you can imagine with some games being 10 targets or more before a third showing of any therein, the game cycle might last 50 spins.

    With multiple targets

    3
    12
    3    3
    28
    7
    0
    35
    12  12
    15
    19
    32
    0     0
    0    hit   in a 10 spin game cycle.


    I've studied and used the particular bet a lot before I found out that you too are using it.
    I was not aware that you call it WF, first I was under the impression that the initials mean What the Fak!:-D
    Later read that for a reason only you can understand you gave it the name Wazy Fuzzy, reminds me of little bear toys full of hugs! LOL

    In my consideration this kind of bet is a unrefined diamond, that's why I've done significant improvements after long, extensive study!

    I've witnessed up to 18 doubled numbers before 1 of them triples, beware!
    ''For after all what is man in nature?
    A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
    The ends of things and their beginnings are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret.
    He is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness out of which he was drawn and the infinite in which he is engulfed.'' B.Pascal

    Offline XXVV

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #28 on: March 29, 2016, 01:27:05 am »
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  • Yes Blue Angel.

    I have been playing this bet for about 25 years now and of course it is generic. What were you doing 25 years ago?  However a trusted colleague suggested such a bet could be useful if kept very simple and flat staked in order to trap warming numbers as well as already very warm and hot numbers. This is where most of the energy is. There would be little waiting time. Forget sleepers and awakening sleepers as they are unreliable and require progressions to trap.  Warming numbers once activated are very prolific and the net should almost always be full.

    Perhaps you could read a little more carefully some of my earlier referencing, as I have stated many times the WF has always been derived from Warm ( just explained) and Fuzzy ( which is a reference to fuzzy mathematics a branch of applied mathematics used in design which handles more complex signals than simple binaries). I also mentioned at least 17 targets encountered in one cycle. That was encountered in a one source live 25,000 spin sample so one could anticipate even worse out there at the limits but such extensions are of no interest or use to me. My work is within the window that reaches no further than 4 targets although I do record all game cycles to read the state of the flow in a live session. Through that window all can be achieved to a certain level, but it requires overlays of winning edge bets to take this core bet to higher levels, and that is where the concept of ABWAB is applied. You are looking for areas where there is strong profit opportunity, and yet you have a strong relatively consistent foundation that can provide as close to a break even result as possible even in worst case scenarios where out of say 3 bets, at least one will be successful, often two, and of course ideally three. Perhaps the WF SL kicks in at -40 but one win of the private bet methodology can provide multiples of up to +27 in certain circumstances. To engineer such a combination bet is most interesting and as in building there are lots of details and variations that can be added.

    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: ACETF BET
    « Reply #29 on: March 31, 2016, 05:20:48 pm »
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  • You should check out my improved version of WF here: http://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=707.0
    ''For after all what is man in nature?
    A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
    The ends of things and their beginnings are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret.
    He is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness out of which he was drawn and the infinite in which he is engulfed.'' B.Pascal