Have we come to a definitely conclusion yet or is it still in the making. If the answer is yes, it would be nice to see it put in action. All these advance talks have killed many brain cells.

Indeed baccarat can be beat in the long run.  This is what I have been waiting to hear.  Many spend a life time trying to find strategies to beat every shoe and guess every single hand.  Once can actually win without any strategy as long as they have a good approach.

One can randomly guess and use random size bets.   Leave when one is up and recover when down.  It takes great discipline.  Key is a huge bankroll and reasonable win expectation.

Quote from: Mike on July 14, 2017, 07:48:05 AM
Albalaha,

You criticise every system as being fallacious and urge us to focus on a money management system which is able to withstand the worst drawdowns. Perhaps you don't realize it but no staking scheme or manipulation of stakes can CREATE an edge. All progressions can do is amplify the edge you already have. If you have no edge, the result of using a progression will worse than if you had just flat bet.

Bet selection should take priority. It IS the name of this forum after all.

You are right Mike.  Bet selection is key.  I have never came across a betting system that has an edge.  I tried to overcome it with progression.  I play a subjective game for years and tried to come up with a mechanical system at the same time.  Several months ago, I thought I found one.  The progression didn't go very deep so I felt that I could live with it.  Still I wasn't comfortable using it.  After a few months of success, I finally saw how ugly it can get in the last two days of testing.  I still can tweak it to make it a winner but it just isn't practical standing next to a table to record the results for 8hrs just to play around 10-20 hands.

Quote from: Mike on July 08, 2017, 08:13:58 AM
That's a fair point, and ad hominem attacks add nothing to the argument, but some don't take criticism of their IDEAS very well either, and accuse the critic of attacking THEM personally, and so the "debate" degenerates.

I agree

Quote from: Mike on July 07, 2017, 07:44:35 AM
Why not start your own topic then, instead of whining about "idiotic topics"?

I think gamblers are beginning to realize that there are no winning systems for games like Roulette and Baccarat, and for poker, sports betting, forex trading etc where you CAN get a real edge, people are naturally reluctant to share their strategies, and who can blame them? Their hard-won edge would be eroded if many people knew how to achieve it.

How do you not know if people in the Roulette and Baccarat section are reluctant to share their strategies as well?  Can't blame them right? 

"Their hard-won edge would be eroded if many people knew how to achieve it."  --- Yes, that is exactly how it would happen.  New side bets like Dragons for Baccarat have done it in the past and more can be done.  Ed Thorpe did this exact for BJ card counting when he published his finding.


Dragon side bets ---  Some may disagree here regarding D7 side bets.  I just learned that this bet is different for some casinos.  In my area, you push if you bet banker.  Where my friend lives, the D7 side bets make no different.

Quote from: Albalaha on July 07, 2017, 01:13:03 AM
Gone are the days when we used to talk of innovations, new systems, their testings and all those stuff that made this place worth visiting. A few members are using the board as a garbage bin putting in all kind of weird unrelated stuff. Going the way gamblers glen went.

Include this one in the mix.

Quote from: alrelax on June 26, 2017, 10:31:03 PM
Stephen, how much would someone have won on this shoe if they played to your system?

[attachimg=1]

Now you're using the casino's system to make fake shoe.

Quote from: Lungyeh on June 23, 2017, 02:54:48 AM
If the shoe is showing rows of terrible 2s and 3s which normally kills most systems why must one be an unintelligent and bet against it as proposed by most systems that cannot defeat terrible 2s.l? In my early days  on this forum,  I bought a system, mastered it and went on a cruise ship with my junket. I quickly lost my credit following the system as I came up against several shoes in a row with distinct patterns of terrible 2s. The junket assistants looked at me in despair and at the end of the cruise asked me why She played so differently because the old Lungyeh would have made a killing from the distinct patterns.  Sigh! Life and all its wonders

Build your system around terrible 2s.     Use it as building block.

Quote from: ozon on June 02, 2017, 03:14:15 PM

Is it possible for hitnrun to make a difference?

Depends on how fast you can run.   

H&R makes no difference.  One person playing 8hrs a day is the same as another playing 4 two hour days.

Quote from: MarkTeruya on August 24, 2016, 03:46:44 PM
It begs the question why Iplayforaliving was given a free rein for so long, maybe esoito can answer.

In truth I always assumed VLS was above letting scammers on his site, but it appears not

Ditto.  I came across a couple in the casino that bought the premium package from Iplayforaliving.  Besides it being a losing system, hey were denied the training that they paid for. No replies or when he does, it's nasty.

Quote from: Jake on August 24, 2016, 01:10:20 PM
Bingo! Just like no one would ever admit to being the victim of a Nigerian prince email scam, although amazingly some poor suckers fall for them.

Exactly! 

Quote from: alrelax on July 01, 2016, 06:06:10 PM
It is the same exact thing in a legitimate service business.  Emergency work Vs. Bided work, regular client that will pay no questions asked within 7 to 10 days after the job is complete Vs. say an insurance company for an insured that will take 3 to 6 months to pay after invoice audit and extended negations to wear down the business personnel, etc.  Tactic employed like those work!  Sucks.  The same job with a 70% profit margin and 5 day payment agreement will also be your next 10% profit job (if lucky) after waiting 5 months for payment and having $40k or more laid out (Out of Pocket Expenses) to get the job complete.  Same thing, no different in gambling.  Oh, lord, how about those invoices no one will pay even with a law suit, a judgment paper is still worthless against almost all people that refuse to pay in the business world.

Very close scenario. 


For everyone (just a thought):

The earliest trigger for comes after at least one and a half shoes, usually later.  I may have some that I call (If I may) triggers that I can bet a little over the table minimum on.  Some casino use 6 decks while many uses 8 decks for a shoe.  Over the years, I've read from here and a few other forums that one looks for statistical anomalies in a shoe.  Would about EVERY 80 hands in the shoe give you that?  Why can't one think of a shoe consisting of infinite numbers of decks, if not at least 50-100 decks.  This may sound crazy but I only play ONE shoe a day, which holds about 70 decks.

Quote from: alrelax on July 01, 2016, 12:01:02 PM

As far as Thorp goes, it is not a mechanical 'sure bet' system by any means, at times it might work and at other times it might not.  There is no guarantee.
 
Same thing in baccarat with progressions, money management and wagering triggers.  Plains and simple, no two ways about it.

Good point.  Their APPROACH is NOT mechanical.  It also requires the player to make a judgment on how much to bet.  The player may bet one amount on a certain count and probably will bet a different amount on the exact same count on another day.   Does anyone know the exact winning figure?  A few years ago, I did some research but not sure now reliable those sources are.  If I could remember correctly, they deploy about 60 players and they won x amount.  When I did the math, each person earned way less than 6 figures a year.  They probably make more getting a job with less stress.   While the wins they posted on weekends and overall wins were impressive, others have done similar perhaps by only luck.  Also according to certain sources, they were wagering large amounts the win isn't all that impressive.  It is overall impressive when you think that they end up winning instead of losing over all the years.  Most of the guys end up making more money working and starting their own business.

I believe that the APPROACH is the only way to win.  Players shouldn't expect to win crazy amounts either.  Unless you're consistently trying to use a progression to end a streak or pattern, I find it very difficult to keep track of where you are in the progression.  This is why I deploy the same approach as the MIT guys.  As far as bet selection goes, I also have triggers.  I did some research and most sources pointed out there there were not a lot of triggers even when counting cards.  The hardest part to implement is patiently waiting for those few trigger hands.  If you can't wait for them and just bet, that's where you will get in trouble.  I don't know if I'm being delusion on the matter of trigger handS but they served me well.  Notice I capitalize the "S".   Like card counters in BJ, they will not know the exact hand to bet large.  They just know the time when the count is good and they rely on the STRETCH that the count is good over several hands and not just one hand.  In order to make money on those stretch before the count change, you will need money to overcome.  NO FLAT BET WILL WIN YOU GAMES (Many have claim that they can do it but none have dared to show some proof).


I usually lose when I can't wait for those triggers.  The ability to wait for them, bet accordingly without getting too distracted is amazingly hard to do.

Quote from: Matt on March 08, 2016, 09:37:24 PM
If i am tracking all 12 streets in cyclesof 12 spins, what is the average spin number that a steet will hit on?

Is streets = streaks? or is it term used to describe a sequence of a particular pattern?

Quote from: ADulay on November 04, 2012, 02:07:43 AM
Well, on pretty much every other forum I get called all kinds of names for even mentioning the online casino I use, and have used for over three years now.

I'll take a chance and see if I can post up this information and still remain a normal user.

I've been using BetPhoenix.ag as my only online casino for real money.  As a US player, it's about the only online casino I can play at for money.

Do not confuse this casino with BetPhoenixCasino which is a totally different operation and not very well regarded in the online gambling community.

I have gotten my requests for payouts in a timely manner and literally have not had any problems from them worth even mentioning.

Their video feed does become flaky from time to time but then I just log off and come back another day.

I made an initial $200 deposit in 2009 and am still playing on the continued winnings from that.   I made the deposit to make a serious test of a system play.  It worked and I just stayed on and continued to play.

Yes, I'll be very happy when the US finally gets its act together and allows online gambling/money transactions, but those dopes in Washington will have to get their heads out of their a$$es and I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

I believe the live roulette wheel minimums on it are $10.

AD

What is the requirement for withdraw?  Minimum amount = ?  How many withdraw per month=?  Fees =?  Is it by check or to your bank account?  How long does it take?  I did not see anything about withdraw on the website.

The video delay is worse than 5dimes but of course I usually play at night.

Quote from: ADulay on June 17, 2016, 06:30:20 PM
As the above mentioned online casino is currently in discussion in another thread, I would like to ask if anyone here is actually playing there lately.

I have been researching their site and rules but haven't seen any mention of our forum members who play there here on the board.  (with one exception).

So, if anyone has any FIRST HAND information to relay, this would be a good thread for that data.

It doesn't matter if you're a $1 player or a $100 player, just real time, first hand information would be nice.

One just never knows when they might need a back up online casino.

AD (this editor is driving me nuts)

I have played at 5dimes making two deposit and numerous times at Grand Macau.  I live in the USA.  I started with Grand Macau because that was the only one that I was able to make a deposit with.  This was almost 2 years ago.  I've loss there over and under betting due to delays.  Sometimes when you click, it doesn't appear so you keep clicking and the next thing you know, you have a large bet.  Then sometimes when you want to make a large bet, you keep clicking and it doesn't appear.  I also had trouble switch to different denomination sometimes.  I had the same thing happen at 5dimes and it's worse.

Grand Macau makes you wait 90 days before they let you cash out.  5dimes allow once a month up to $2500 if I remember correctly.   The minimum before you can withdraw is $1000.  I can't tell you how reliable the payout is because I have not done any cash out.  The most I've won at 5dimes is $100.  I've won $1500 at Grand Macau but end up losing due to the delays that I mention above.