Creating bets from dozens and columns is one of my favourite ways of playing roulette.

Why do I say that?

Because dozens and columns can sleep. This creates variance. You need variance if you are a flat bettor and hope to profit in a session.

What I am going to show you is something that I can't really say that I have seen anyone else mention on any of the forums.

The first aim is to find out what is the sleeping dozen and column.

I will type out a few examples....

23 2B (So this is pretty self explanatory. 23 belongs to the second dozen and column B)
36 3C (1A) (36 belongs to the third dozen and column C. So the sleeping dozen is the 1 and the sleeping column is the A. Hence the 1A at the end in the brackets)

Another example....

09 1C
06 1C
11 1B
34 3A (2C)

Another....

33 3C
27 3C
10 1A (2B)

So you get the idea. The sleeping dozen and column could also be referred to as the furthest back dozen and column.

Now what I have found quite often is that one of either the sleeping dozen or column will appear on the next spin.

So taking the most recent example above....

33 3C
27 3C
10 1A (2B)
19 2A (3B)  (You can see how the sleeping second dozen appeared here)

Let's grab another number....

33 3C
27 3C
10 1A (2B)
19 2A (3B)
30 3C (1B)  (The sleeping third dozen appeared here)

Now here is what I have noticed....

You can see above how the sleeping dozen keeps changing. However the sleeping column keeps sleeping.

So how would you take advantage of this?

Look at the number 10 in the above example. Let's say you want the second dozen to appear and the column B to remain sleeping.

So you would be looking for the second dozen to appear. But it can only appear in either column A or Column C if the B column is to remain sleeping.

So that's going to be either 2A or 2C.

2A is represented by the 13/16 split and the 19/22 split.

2C is represented by the 15/18 split and the 21/24 split.

You can see that the number appearing after the 10 was 19 and this belongs to one of the 4 splits above.

So the new sleeping dozen and column after the 19 came was 3B.

So repeating the process....

I am looking for the column B to remain sleeping. However I am going to bet for the third dozen to appear.

So what I am looking for is either 3A or 3C.

3A is represented by the 25/28 split and the 31/34 split.

3C is represented by the 27/30 split and the 33/36 split.

The next number out was 30 belonging to the 3C.

The new sleeping dozen and column is now 1B.

Like I said, you will find this happens a lot. You do get a change in the sleeping dozen and column. But we also know that dozens and columns can sleep for a long time. So this means that sometimes you are going to get just either the sleeping dozen or column changing continuously leaving the other to sleep. This allows you to play just 4 splits.

One thing I have noticed with dozens and columns is how the variance tends to come and go in waves.

So you will get something like....

28 3A
11 1B (2C)
07 1A (2C)
28 3A (2C)
31 3A (2C)
04 1A (2C)   (So you can see here how the 2C continues to sleep as the missing dozen and column. Obviously you would not bet what I am describing above when you see this happen. Just be patient and wait for one of either the sleeping dozens or columns to start appearing)

Here is an example of that....

09 1C
28 3A (2B)
14 2B (1C)
15 2C (1A)
22 2A (1B)
32 3B (1C)   (You can see here how the sleeping dozen and column keep changing every spin)

It does not matter if it does not change every so often.

You might get something like....

change
change
not change
change
change
change
not change

This is ok just getting the odd intermittent no change. You can work through this.

Where you don't want to betting is....

not change
not change
change
not change
not change
not change
change

Like I said, I have noticed these trends seem to be easier to read and are more pronounced when working with dozens and columns. It is not difficult to get the hang of it.

cheers

Hello Turner

Go to rouletteforum.net home page.

Click the link where it says 'old public forum'

Then the first section is 'Roulette forum / Free roulette systems.... click that.

Then it is a sticky! The 6th one down.

I am pretty certain Poit did a few of these and one was for more than 3 million spins and covered a lot of different stuff.

I will have a look myself later and let you know if I find anything else.

cheers

I found your stats interesting Turner

Poit on the old rouletteforum.net did a 3 million spin test. I tried to copy + paste it here, but I can't paste anything in this forum for some reason.

Here is a pretty simple idea that may be worth testing a bit to see how it goes.

I will give a quick example using the sixlines and the quads.

Sixlines...

1-6
7-12
13-18
19-24
25-30
31-36

Quads...

1-9
10-18
19-27
28-36

I got the following numbers from Spielbank Wiesbaden.

24
13
31
19
27
29
24
4
18
29
30
14
22
29
17

I will convert the above numbers to the Quads first.

3
2
4
3
3
4
3
1
2
4
4
2
3
4
2

Now it's pretty simple. All you do is look for the most recent two of the same and bet for that until there is a change and you have a new most recent two.

So here is how it would go for the Quads.

3
2
4
3 **The 3 here is the most recent two**
3  win (+3)
4  loss (+2)
3  win (+5)
1  loss (+4)
2  loss (+3)
4  loss (+2)  **The 4 is now the most recent two**
4  win (+5)
2  loss (+4)
3  loss (+3)
4  win (+6)
2  loss (+5)  **The 2 is now the most recent two**


Now here are the numbers converted to the Sixlines.

4
3
6
4
5
5
4
1
3
5
5
3
4
5
3

Here is how it would go for the Sixlines.

4
3
6
4 **The 4 is the most recent two**
5  loss (-1)
5  loss (-2)  **The 5 is the most recent two**
4  loss (-3)
1  loss (-4)
3  loss (-5)
5  win (level)
5  win (+5)
3  loss (+4) 
4  loss (+3)
5  win (+8)
3  loss (+7)  **The 3 is the most recent two**

That's it basically.

I was thinking about progressions for this.

For the Quads...

Maybe something like 111 222 333

For the Sixlines...

1111 2222 3333

or something along those lines.

cheers

Betting against sleepers is one way to try and keep the variance as low as possible to allow you to have a profitable session.  The house edge won't kill you in a single session, where as the variance most certainly can.  So betting against anything sleeping for a bit is naturally going to give you some kind of winning run if it continues to sleep.

The 64 dollar question is what is the optimal bet location for betting against sleepers?

My personal opinion is things like betting against a sleeping dozen or column (meaning you back the other two) is not a long term winner. A few losses can quickly dig a hole which may be hard to get out from. The best way I have found is to limit the bet location to as few numbers as possible.

But here is the crux of the problem really. How can you limit the bet and keep variance at bay. Solve that equation and you are making some progress. The good news for us is that loads of things can sleep for a long time. So it pays to be creative and flexible in looking for these sleeping locations.

Quote from: D1 on August 03, 2013, 10:01:47 PM
The top 5 numbers add up to 69 ?

The bottom 5 numbers add up to 92

There is a duck in there as well! Feathers everywhere. [smiley]aes/confused.png[/smiley]

Here is the first group of numbers today from Spielbank Wiesbaden on Table 3.

[attachimg=1]

That looks like a nice win right there on the 1,3,5,7,9 group.

EDIT: You are sitting at +726 after that last number 7 appeared. The next 4 losses would swallow up 290 chips still leaving the profit at +436.

Quote from: soggett on August 02, 2013, 06:31:16 AM


btw - so you play only one color at a time?not both?

soggett, there is nothing stopping you playing both sides if you want to. However, it does get a bit expensive on the losing cycles. This is very streaky IMO. So it makes sense to look for a dominant side after a quite period. It might be that both sides wake up from a slumber and start performing well. That would be even better.

I don't find it that difficult to track this just watching the marquee. So it doesn't really need to be someone's primary method.

But I think it is brilliant used as an attacking ploy if you spot the opportunities. No harm in risking 40-50 chips every so often in an attempt to hit the jackpot.

cheers

Hello

Here is a more detailed example of the way I was playing last night using this concept.

31 black appeared and was then followed by 33.

So the group 7 consisting of numbers 29,31,33 and 35 was playable.

I am going to go up 1 chip on each number on every spin. (win or lose)

Number 7 appeared and that's a loss of 4 chips.

So now I am going up to 2 chips on each number.

Number 29 appeared. That's a win and I am ahead by 60 units.

Now I am going up to 3 chips on each number.

Number 34 appeared and that's a loss. Down now to +48 units.

Now I am going up to 4 chips on each number.

Number 16 appeared and that's a loss. Down now to +32 units.

Now I am going up to 5 chips on each number.

Number 29 appeared. That's a win and I am ahead by 192 units.

(Here is the thing! Your next 3 bets would be 6, 7 and 8 chips on each number. That's 84 chips. That would still leave you 108 units ahead should you lose the next three bets.)

So now I am going up to 6 chips on each number.

Number 36 appeared. That's a loss and now the profit is 168 units.

Now I go up to 7 chips on each number.

Number 35 appeared. That's a win and I am ahead by 392 units.

Now I go up to 8 chips on each number.

Number 33 appeared. That's a win and I am ahead by 650 units.

Now I go up to 9 chips on each number.

Number 7 appeared. That's a loss and now the profit is 614 units.

Now I go up to 10 chips on each number.

Number 21 appeared. That's a loss and now the profit is 574 units.

(So obviously you have to decide at this stage how long you are prepared to chase another winner. You have plenty of chips in the bank so to speak. However the bets are slowly escalating every spin and another 4/5 losses from here is going to wipe out around 250 units. I explained in the above post how I think giving a number 2/3 chances to keep appearing seems like the best way to go.)

Now I go up to 11 chips on each number.

Number 29 appeared. That's a win and the profit is now 926 units.

It's fair to say this was a pretty hot streak and obviously this won't happen all the time. The good news is they don't need to.
On saying that, look at the example from one of the posts above where there was 19 wins vs 3 losses. That session or one like it could seriously win someone a lot of money.

The way I approach this is to mark both sides (red and black) and wait for a cold period. Then I am looking for it to wake up again. It sometimes wakes up with a bang and that's what I like about the up 1 unit on a win or loss staking plan.

cheers

I am just home from a 12 hour marathon session in a local B+M Casino. I really wanted to see how this worked live.

Thank you very much soggett for posting your test results. Very kind of you.

Well, I really did enjoy a lot of good luck with this today. I used it as an attack weapon like I suggested above.

Here is what I did.....

Up 1 unit on a win or loss.

So let's take the group 1 as an example. (numbers 1,3,5,7,9)

Here are some numbers that came out and I will explain how I played.

20 black (group 6)

5 red (group 1)

33 black (group 7)

1 red (group 1)

So now I would place 1 unit on each of the 5 numbers in group 1.

18 red (group 4)

That's a loss and I am down 5 units.

I now go up to 2 units on each of the 5 numbers in group 1.

7 red (group 1)

That's a win and I am +57 in front. I placed 5 chips on the first bet and 10 chips on the second bet. That's 15 chips.
I got returned 72 chips meaning I am ahead by 57.

Now I am going to place 3 units on each of the 5 numbers in group 1.

11 black (group 3)

That's a loss and I am now only ahead 42 units.

Now I am going to place 4 units on the 5 numbers in group 1.

3 red (group 1)

That's a win. I am now 166 units ahead.

You can stop at any time.

My golden rule was not to chase after 4 consecutive losses from the start. Stop and look for another opportunity starting from the 1 unit again.

This costs 50 units playing 5 numbers or 40 units playing 4 numbers if you don't hit any winners in 4 spins.

Some of the runs were unbelievable and I chickened out on a few. One run would have got me to a high of over 1200 units if I had carried on.

I think a sensible approach is to look for the winners to appear within 2/3 spin gaps.

Something like this for instance if you were playing group 1....

1

3

4

1

1

7

8

1

This is fine.

I have cards stuffed everywhere from today/tonight in my pockets and will go through some of them tommorow and elaborate further.

cheers

I was thinking some more about this earlier and it strikes me that the best approach would be to just use it as the occasional attack weapon.

Set aside 20/25 units.

Wait for one of the groups to wake up and then attack it using a positive progression. Maybe something like up 1 unit (win or lose) on every spin. Stop when you are happy with your profits or when you have exhausted the original 20/25 units you set aside. It seems the best way to try and capitalize on some of the hot streaks that occur.

cheers

Quote from: Turner on July 31, 2013, 10:08:15 PM
latvian spins would be nice to look at. how many X's from where the ball flew off....12 ?  lol

[smiley]aes/lol.png[/smiley]

Spielbank Wiesbaden put -- --  -- when there is a change of dealer!

The Latvian version --  --  -- indicate when the magnets are turned on! 

Brilliant video Priyanka

It had me chuckling a few times.

Here is a quick example from today....


[attachimg=1]

You can see playing the black groups is not producing much. Yet the group 5 in the reds is going great.

This is why I personally don't think it's a good idea to play systems cast in stone. You have to adapt to what is unfolding before your eyes.

Quote from: Priyanka on July 30, 2013, 02:57:43 PM
Now that you concluded that do one side why not just do a FTL of the groups

Priyanka

That would be ok until you get the dreaded chops!

RBRBRB etc....

You coul get something like...

16 RED (GROUP 4)

20 BLACK (GROUP 6)

12 RED (GROUP 4)

31 BLACK (GROUP 7)

14 RED (GROUP 4)

2 BLACK (GROUP 2)

So FTL here could catch you out. However there is a trend developing on the group 4. This is why I think any winning roulette strategy that we can come up with is going to depend on some kind of situational awareness. We can't change the odds, so we need to find a way to beat the game.