You walk up to a roulette table prepared to note down the first 37 spins.

Now you obviously have no idea at this stage what's about to appear.

But what about the second cycle of 37 spins?

Can any clues be gained from the first cycle?

Well there are normally 12 numbers left still to appear after the first lot of 37 spins.

What seems to be fairly common is that you will get two thirds of those 12 numbers appearing in the second cycle.

Does this help us in any way?

Well I think it's a small improvement from when first walking up to the table not knowing what is going to appear.

So let's take it a step further and use the CW pocket distances to give ourselves another set of 37 spins.

Now there should be on average two lots of missing 12 number sets after the first cycle.

This allows a little bit of wiggle room in case one of the 12 missing number sets underperforms.

So I took the first 75 spins from table 4 at the Spielbank Wiesbaden Casino in Germany to show you an example.

The picture shows the first cycle of 37 spins on the left.

Next to that is the CW pocket distances. This means how far the ball travelled towards the next pocket. CW = clockwise.

You can see that there are 12 numbers still missing from the original numbers +18 numbers still missing from the CW numbers. (18 is quite high)

I have listed these two sets of numbers to the far right.

My plan is to now wait for these missing numbers to come out and then start betting them all the way through the second cycle. I would anticipate seeing about 8 numbers appear in the first set and about 12 numbers appear in the second set in this example.

You can see all the betting action in the middle of the picture.

This was all done flat betting.

The results......

6 numbers appeared from the first set and 11 numbers appeared from the second set.

So they slightly underperformed as far as the average goes.

However the results were not bad considering it was flat betting and there were a few occasions when I could have quit with a half decent profit if playing for real.

The way I see it is like this!

The first cycle of 37 spins comes and goes....

There will normally be 12 numbers left in both lists....

On average, 8 of those numbers will appear in the second cycle from each list.

It would not seem unreasonable to expect a few repeats to appear.

So it may just take a little bit of guesswork out of the equation.

Cheers

p.s. One extra feature that I like about the idea is that it is possible you could get a double hit on one of the numbers because you could be placing two bets on the same number. The bets for the second set need to be calculated using the pocket distances. They are not fixed locations on every spin like the first set.

As an example....

The first bet comes in the second set and it's the 0.

So this would have you betting for a repeat of the last number out because the pocket distance is 0. It has not travelled.

http://imspirit.wordpress.com/2012/12/16/why-any-progression-must-fail-for-negative-expectancy-games-in-the-long-run/

enjoy 

Well, it's just the nature of the beast.

It would be nice to get 4/5 bankrolls ahead and take a loss on the chin.

Luckily the loss never came at the beginning and wiped most of the bankroll out!

I wouldn't give up on the guy just yet. One thing that strikes me about JL is that he does seem to have the discipline and patience required to grind out a profit if there is one to be had.

Don't cancel the yacht! 

The good thing is that it only takes a few seconds to log out and back in again if you want to move up or down a level.

Most of the other live casinos have 10p/c chips nowadays.

Only Smartlive are still digging their heels in with the £1 minimum on the live table.

Although admittedly their low roller autowheel is 10p.

Dublinbet is OK apart from spinning way too fast at times.

cheers

Hello ignatus

I used to do something similar to this a few years ago!


[attachimg=1]


There was some consistency with a clump of numbers forming around the average as you can see in the pic.

I would look for which was strongest between the CW and CCW spins.

You get some nice direct hits like the number 5 in the picture.

Hello Marshall

The idea is fairly simple, however the execution of it takes some getting used to.

I don't know if you have seen one of Normy's posts where he shows us one of his tracking disks. That is the sort of thing I have. I also made up a small book with all the combinations that I could play. It took about a week to do that.

Betting for a D to appear in either the table layout or wheel layout is the easiest because you can place a straight up bet on one of the dozens or columns and then proceed to do the rest.

It can get complicated when the furthest back are ties on the wheel layout part if you don't already have all the info you need.

I would not suggest anyone trying to wing it without fully understanding it because it will result in mistakes.

This one would make a nice little programme for online play at some of the live dealer casinos. Let's see how much interest is in it before we go down that road.

cheers

Gizmo

You can't really do much more than what you have already done.

I for one appreciate the software and explanations you have gave.

No player can go from step 1 to step 10 in my opinion without going through the intermediate stages.

All the best gamblers I have ever met were not young! 

One of the reasons I particularly like this idea is because I find it easy to follow for the most part.

Here are 2 play sessions.

The S represents the furthest back staying missing on both the table layout and the wheel layout.

The D represents one of the furthest back appearing from either the table layout or the wheel layout.

Session 1.

D
S
S
S
S
D
S
S
D
S
S
S
S
S
S
S
S
S
D
D
S
D
S
S
S
S
S
D
S
S
S
S

Session 2.

S
D
D
D
D
D
S
D
D
S
S
D
D
D
D
S
S
D
S
D
D
D
D
D
D
D
S
D
D
D
S
D
S
D
D
D
S

As you can see, it can be very streaky.

Some type of consistency has to be the key if you don't have a physical edge.

You can then work your way through a session confident of coming out ahead.

cheers 

LoL ralph!

Neigh onions on my burger thanks!

As a further example carrying on with the numbers from above....
　
19 2A
12 1C 3C
19 2A 2A
32 3B (1C) 3B (2)
18 2C (1) 3A (2)
31 3A (1) 3A (2)
02 1B (2C) 2B (C)

You can see that the 2C is furthest back for the table layout.

C is the furthest back for the wheel layout.

This is a situation where the bet is not costing much.

Leave out all of the 2C from the table layout.

13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,3,6,9,12,27,30,33,36.

Leave out all of the C from the wheel layout.

34,10,29,26.

This only leaves 13 numbers left to bet on.

1,2,4,5,7,8,11,25,28,31,32,35,0.

The next number out was 32.

19 2A
12 1C 3C
19 2A 2A
32 3B (1C) 3B (2)
18 2C (1) 3A (2)
31 3A (1) 3A (2)
02 1B (2C) 2B (C)
32 3B (2C) 3B (C)

So you can see that the 2C from the table layout and the C from the wheel layout are still missing.

That was more or less just a dozen bet betting only 13 numbers.

You can get times where the furthest back tie (ie. 2C in this example) can also go on a long run of not appearing.

I was monitoring this at a live casino the other day and saw the furthest back missing from both the table layout and wheel layout for an astonishing 37 out of 45 times!

That's incredible if you ask me.

It would be like watching RED come out 37 out of 45 times.

I am sure it happens and I may just have witnessed a freak occurence. However it's well known for dozens and columns to sleep for paticularly long periods of time.

This method which combines both the table layout and wheel layout seems to throw up some nice runs.

I am going to try out a few of Stetson Baily's progression ideas with this one using a bit of (hopefully) good timing.

Here is something which you may find interesting.
　
It is based on finding the furthest back Dozen or Column using both the table layout and the wheel layout.

The best idea will be to show you an example of what I mean.

The first number out is 19.

This is represented by 2A. (2nd dozen and column A)

So far so good!

The next number out is 12.

This is represented by 1C.

So I have...

19 2A
12 1C

Now I am using the table layout to arrive at these.

However I also want to use the wheel layout as well.

So the first number out was 19 and it then went to 12.

I need to assign some dozen and column markings from the number 19.

It would look like this going around the wheel.

19 - 0
04 - 1A
21 - 1B
02 - 1C
25 - 1A
17 - 1B
34 - 1C
06 - 1A
27 - 1B
13 - 1C
36 - 1A
11 - 1B
30 - 1C
08 - 2A
23 - 2B
10 - 2C
05 - 2A
24 - 2B
16 - 2C
33 - 2A
01 - 2B
20 - 2C
14 - 2A
31 - 2B
09 - 2C
22 - 3A
18 - 3B
29 - 3C
07 - 3A
28 - 3B
12 - 3C
35 - 3A
03 - 3B
26 - 3C
00 - 3A
32 - 3B
15 - 3C

I hope you get the idea.

So the number 19 went to 12.

Looking at the 12 on that chart and you can see it's 3C.

So my marking card would look like this....

19 2A
12 1C 3C

I put the appropriate dozen and column from the table layout first.

Then I put the dozen and column from the wheel layout second.

The complicated part is that the wheel layout is going to change from spin to spin.

The number out after 19 was 12.

So the dozens and columns from number 12 are as follows....

12 - 0
35 - 1A
03 - 1B
26 - 1C
00 - 1A
32 - 1B
15 - 1C
19 - 1A
04 - 1B
21 - 1C
02 - 1A
25 - 1B
17 - 1C
34 - 2A
06 - 2B
27 - 2C
13 - 2A
36 - 2B
11 - 2C
30 - 2A
08 - 2B
23 - 2C
10 - 2A
05 - 2B
24 - 2C
16 - 3A
33 - 3B
01 - 3C
20 - 3A
14 - 3B
31 - 3C
09 - 3A
22 - 3B
18 - 3C
29 - 3A
07 - 3B
28 - 3C

So you can see the dozens and columns are always starting from the new number that appeared.

The 12 went to number 19.

19 2A
12 1C 3C
19 2A 1A

The 19 went to number 32.

19 2A
12 1C 3C
19 2A 1A
32 3B 3B

Now here is where I can find out what the furthest back dozen and column is for both the table layout and the wheel layout.

Looking at the first set from the table layout...

2A
1C
2A
3B

The furthest back is a tie between dozen 1 and column C.

Looking at the second set from the wheel layout...

3C
1A
3B

The furthest back is dozen 2. In fact it has not even appeared yet.

So the marking card now looks like this...

19 2A
12 1C 3C
19 2A 1A
32 3B (1C) 3B (2)

The furthest back is located in the brackets.

The 32 went to number 18.

19 2A
12 1C 3C
19 2A 1A
32 3B (1C) 3B (2)
18 2C (1) 3A (2)

1C was the tied furthest back from the table layout.

The C appeared and so now the 1 is the furthest back on its own.

The 2 is still the furthest back from the wheel layout.

Now here is the interesting part if you have got this far!

The furthest back dozen or column in both sets can go missing for long periods of time.

So how do you take advantage of this fact?

I will show you from the last number which was 18.

First of all, leave out the entire dozen 1.

That is the furthest back using the table layout.

Now it's a case of leaving out the furthest back 2 from the wheel layout.

Let's take a look from the last number out which was 18.

18 - 0
29 - 1A
07 - 1B...Left out.
28 - 1C
12 - 1A...Left out.
35 - 1B
03 - 1C...Left out.
26 - 1A
00 - 1B
32 - 1C
15 - 1A
19 - 1B
04 - 1C...Left out.
21 - 2A ...Leave out the 21.
02 - 2B...Already left out. (Belongs to dozen 1)
25 - 2C...Leave out the 25.
17 - 2A...Leave out the 17.
34 - 2B...Leave out the 34.
06 - 2C...Already left out.
27 - 2A...Leave out the 27.
13 - 2B...Leave out the 13.
36 - 2C...Leave out the 36.
11 - 2A...Already left out.
30 - 2B...Leave out the 30.
08 - 2C...Already left out.
23 - 3A
10 - 3B...Left out.
05 - 3C...Left out.
24 - 3A
16 - 3B
33 - 3C
01 - 3A...Left out.
20 - 3B
14 - 3C
31 - 3A
09 - 3B...Left out.
22 - 3C
So that is 20 numbers that are getting left out.

That only leaves 17 left to bet.

They are 18,29,28,35,26,0,32,15,19,23,24,16,33,20,14,31,22.

The 18 went to number 31.

19 2A
12 1C 3C
19 2A 2A
32 3B (1C) 3B (2)
18 2C (1) 3A (2)
31 3A (1) 3A (2)

The 1 is still missing from the table layout and the 2 is still missing from the wheel layout.

A session from Smartlive Casino last night produced a session where the 3 was the furthest back.

It was furthest back for both the table layout and the wheel layout and went on a 15 spin winning run.

I like the idea because the table layout and wheel layout are independent from each other.

You can get long runs of the furthest back stay missing for both.

Playing it this way equates to just slightly less than an even money chance.

There are a few things to take note about.

You could have 1C (a tie) missing in the table layout and 3 missing on the wheel layout.

You would need to leave out the entire 1C first which is 20 numbers.

Then you would leave out the 3 from the wheel layout.

This just means you end up betting less numbers.

It is possible you could have 2 ties for both the table layout and wheel layout.

This would result in very few numbers actually bet.

You also have the option of playing for the alternative to this bet.

That would mean looking for either the furthest back to APPEAR.

Say the 1 was furthest back for the table layout and the C was furthest back for wheel layout.

You would then bet all the first dozen and the C numbers from the wheel layout.

This works out to roughly about a 20 chip bet.

I have noticed after doing some research that it is not that difficult to follow the patterns with this.

I much prefer it as an alternative to an even money bet like RED or BLACK.

Superman

I am just gathering some data at the moment and then I am going to have a look at it. There are no real concrete ideas just yet.

cheers

One thing this shows me is that playing lots of numbers is a disaster waiting to happen. You are going to get hit by some bad variance when your group of selected numbers matches the majority of these underperforming numbers and there are a lot of them as you can see.

However there does always seem to be a small group of numbers that are performing at a rate of 50% better than average. The problem as you have likely figured is these numbers can change quickly. A hot number can go to sleep and a cold number can wake up.

So maybe one way of catching that consistency is to look for numbers that have appeared regularly in the previous cycles (see the red dots in the pics) You could also keep an eye on this for waking up numbers.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=1]

One thing I noticed looking at the pic is how six of the numbers have appeared in every cycle. I put a red dot next to those. Could be something or nothing.