I must admit I find it a very fascinating subject.

It must be very empowering for someone who had a gambling problem to turn their life around and still be able to gamble after treatment in a controlled manner rather than think that anything and everything related to gambling was taboo. This would kind of suggests that it is all a state of mind.

I know the UK government spent a fortune several years ago training up a lot of people to work as councilors using CBT techniques. I have not read any reports yet on how successful they think this has worked out.

Gizmo

I can understand why a therapist would come out and tell a pathological gambler that they can never gamble again if they want to live a life in recovery. They have to cater for the majority. What percentage of problem gamblers do you honestly think could turn things around and become successful gamblers ? (speaking of which, I have a book on this very subject where the author did try to turn a group of problem gamblers into successful players at the track... see what I did there)

I reckon the percentage is small because the actual gambling itself is only 5% of the problem for someone addicted. It is all the other sh*t that needs working on which can take years to fix which creates 95% of the problem. It's hard for people to break negative cycles in their life and problem gambling is just another one of them.

Quote from: Ophis on November 21, 2012, 04:32:00 PM
maybe instead of full moderation control give topic starters new option like:
"Mark as Offtopic" or something similar.

Then selected post would be automatically edited to fit into some sort of folding function
like [reveal][/reveal] from rouletteforum[dot]com.

This way topic starters could "CLEAN" their topics while maintaining full transparency off the forum.

That's a good idea if it can be implemented and is then fair to everyone. I would vote for that option.

Of course another option in some cases is to start a thread and then lock it. That leaves whatever pertinent information is in there not to get lost between loads of 'thank you' and 'where are the instructions'. A separate thread could be started for all that. There is nothing worse than reading through a 15 page thread and you still don't understand what's going on.

I can see both sides to this argument.

We have had some good contributors down the years like Winkel and Mr Chips who might still be around contributing if some of the 'usual suspects' did not start giving them a bit of grief. Then I also appreciate everyone is entitled to their opinion and disagreeing with someone is not a crime. I think we can all spot when someone is just plain trolling and just out to get a negative reaction.

I like the idea of 'troll free' posts 

Yet, at the same time, not discouraging free speech just for the sake of it. There is a fine line I suppose and let's hope it is used wisely.

That was a great post Bayes. 

I am wide awake now. 

Here is the chart that I used for system9.

1-1 = (1,12)
1-2 = (1,2)
1-3 = (2,3,4)
1-4 = (3,4,6)
1-5 = (4,5,8)
1-6 = (5,6,10)
1-7 = (6,7,11)
1-8 = (7,8,9)
1-9 = (7,8,9)
1-10 = (5,9,10)
1-11 = (3,10,11)
1-12 = (1,11,12)

2-1 = (1,10,11)
2-2 = (2,12)
2-3 = (1,2,3)
2-4 = (2,4)
2-5 = (3,5,6)
2-6 = (4,6,8)
2-7 = (5,7,9)
2-8 = (6,7,8)
2-9 = (5,7,9)
2-10 = (3,8,10)
2-11 = (1,9,11)
2-12 = (10,11,12)

3-1 = (1,8,10)
3-2 = (2,10,11)
3-3 = (3,12)
3-4 = (1,2,4)
3-5 = (2,4,5)
3-6 = (3,6)
3-7 = (4,7)
3-8 = (5,8)
3-9 = (3,6,9)
3-10 = (1,7,10)
3-11 = (8,11)
3-12 = (9,12)

4-1 = (1,6,9)
4-2 = (2,8,10)
4-3 = (3,10,11)
4-4 = (4,12)
4-5 = (1,2,5)
4-6 = (2,4,6)
4-7 = (3,5,7)
4-8 = (3,4,8)
4-9 = (1,5,9)
4-10 = (6,10,11)
4-11 = (7,9,11)
4-12 = (7,8,12)

5-1 = (1,4,8)
5-2 = (2,6,9)
5-3 = (3,8,10)
5-4 = (4,10,11)
5-5 = (5,12)
5-6 = (1,2,6)
5-7 = (2,3,7)
5-8 = (1,3,8)
5-9 = (4,9,11)
5-10 = (5,9,10)
5-11 = (6,7,11)
5-12 = (5,7,12)

6-1 = (1,2,7)
6-2 = (2,4,8)
6-3 = (3,6,9)
6-4 = (4,8,10)
6-5 = (5,10,11)
6-6 = (6,12)
6-7 = (1,7)
6-8 = (2,8,11)
6-9 = (3,9)
6-10 = (4,7,10)
6-11 = (5,11)
6-12 = (3,6,12)

7-1 = (1,6)
7-2 = (2,3,7)
7-3 = (3,5,8)
7-4 = (4,7,9)
7-5 = (5,9,10)
7-6 = (6,11)
7-7 = (7,12)
7-8 = (1,8,10)
7-9 = (2,8,9)
7-10 = (3,6,10)
7-11 = (4,11)
7-12 = (2,5,12)

8-1 = (1,3,5)
8-2 = (2,5,6)
8-3 = (3,7)
8-4 = (4,8,9)
8-5 = (5,9,11)
8-6 = (1,6,10)
8-7 = (2,7,11)
8-8 = (8,12)
8-9 = (1,9,10)
8-10 = (2,8,10)
8-11 = (3,6,11)
8-12 = (4,12)

9-1 = (1,4,5)
9-2 = (2,5,7)
9-3 = (3,6,9)
9-4 = (4,7,11)
9-5 = (1,5,8)
9-6 = (3,6,9)
9-7 = (4,7,10)
9-8 = (2,8,11)
9-9 = (9,12)
9-10 = (1,10)
9-11 = (2,8,11)
9-12 = (3,6,12)

10-1 = (1,3,7)
10-2 = (2,4,9)
10-3 = (3,5,11)
10-4 = (1,4,6)
10-5 = (3,5,7)
10-6 = (5,6,8)
10-7 = (6,7,9)
10-8 = (4,8,10)
10-9 = (2,9,11)
10-10 = (10,12)
10-11 = (1,10,11)
10-12 = (2,8,12)

11-1 = (1,2,9)
11-2 = (2,3,11)
11-3 = (1,3,4)
11-4 = (3,4,5)
11-5 = (5,6)
11-6 = (6,7)
11-7 = (7,8)
11-8 = (6,8,9)
11-9 = (4,9,10)
11-10 = (2,10,11)
11-11 = (11,12)
11-12 = (1,10,12)

12-1 = (1,11)
12-2 = (1,2)
12-3 = (3)
12-4 = (4,5)
12-5 = (5,7)
12-6 = (6,9)
12-7 = (7,10)
12-8 = (8}
12-9 = (6,9)
12-10 = (4,10)
12-11 = (2,11)
12-12 =  (12)

Everything gets worked from this chart if you are playing system9.

I will start a separate thread revisiting system9 and also add 'system18' and 'system36'.

This thread is just concentrating on what I call the '3 6 9 phenomenon'.

I played a game yesterday and it happened pretty quickly. So I will just replicate the game and show you what I mean.

Now in system9, I always wrote 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 at the top of a piece of paper.

(for anyone that does not know, it is a streets based system)

The first number out was 20. This is obviously the 7 street.

20) 7.

The next number out was 18 which is street 6.

20) 7.
18) 6.

Now here is where I need to use the chart for the first time because the streets have changed from a 7 to a 6.

All I do is go to the chart where it shows 7-6. I see written next to that 6-11.

So I put in the 6-11 on my piece of paper like so...

20) 7.
18) 6. 6-11.

Now I also cross out the 6 and 11 from the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 that I wrote out at the top of the piece of paper.

So my piece of paper now looks like this....

1 2 3 4 5 x 7 8 9 10 x 12.

20) 7.
18) 6. 6-11. (10) **I also put a (10) in brackets here just to signal that there are now 10 streets left. Remember I have wiped two of them out.

ok.. next number is 1.

My piece of paper now looks like this..

x x 3 4 5 x x 8 9 10 x 12.

20) 7.
18) 6. 6-11. (10)
01) 1. 1-2-7. (7)

You can see that there are now only seven streets still to come out in the 1-12 row at the top.

Next number is 20.

My piece of paper now looks like this..

x x 3 4 5 x x 8 9 10 x 12.

20) 7.
18) 6. x-x. (10)
01) 1. 1-2-x. (7)
20) 7. 6-7-11. (7)*

So you can see the 6 7 and 11 have already appeared and so I can't cross out any more numbers from the 1-12 at the top. I have crossed out the 6 7 and 11 with some x's in the markings. The * next to the second (7) just represents a repeat of the 7.

*I have not got to the 3 6 9 bit yet. I am getting there. 

The next number out is 18.

My piece of paper now looks like this..

x x 3 4 5 x x 8 9 10 x 12.

20) 7.
18) 6. x-x. (10)
01) 1. 1-2-x. (7)
20) 7. x-7-x. (7)*
18) 6. 6-11. (7)*

The next number out is the 7.

My piece of paper now looks like this.....

x x x 4 5 x x 8 x 10 x 12.

20) 7.
18) 6. x-x. (10)
01) 1. 1-2-x. (7)
20) 7. x-7-x. (7)*
18) 6. x-11. (7)*
07) 3. 3-6-9. (5) -here is where the 3-6-9 made it's appearance-

The last two streets to appear are the 6 and 3 and I also have the 3-6-9 marked down.
This is an indication that I am store for the '3 6 9 phenomenon'. What tends to happen here often is that you now get a cluster of either the 3 6 or 9 street appearing. What also tends to happen most of the time is that they alternate.

So if the 3 street appears... bet for the 6 and 9 street next.
If the 6 street appears... bet for the 3 and 9 street next.
If the 9 street appears... bet for the 3 and 6 street next.

The next number out was 26.

My piece of paper now looks like this...

x x x 4 5 x x 8 x 10 x 12.

20) 7.
18) 6. x-x. (10)
01) 1. 1-2-x. (7)
20) 7. x-7-x. (7)*
18) 6. x-11. (7)*
07) 3. x-x-x. (5)
26) 9. 3-6-9. (5)*

So I am up and running and this can go on for a good few spins. The great thing about it is that it is only a 2 chip bet. You can afford to increase the wager a bit if it keeps hitting and get a nice payday.

The next number out was 17.

My piece of paper now looks like this...

x x x 4 5 x x 8 x 10 x 12.

20) 7.
18) 6. x-x. (10)
01) 1. 1-2-x. (7)
20) 7. x-7-x. (7)*
18) 6. x-11. (7)*
07) 3. x-x-x. (5)
26) 9. x-x-x. (5)*
17) 6. 3-6-9. (5)*

The next number out was 26.

My piece of paper now looks like this...

x x x 4 5 x x 8 x 10 x 12.

20) 7.
18) 6. x-x. (10)
01) 1. 1-2-x. (7)
20) 7. x-7-x. (7)*
18) 6. x-11. (7)*
07) 3. x-x-x. (5)
26) 9. x-x-x. (5)*
17) 6. x-6-x. (5)*
26) 9. 3-9. (5)*  That was the end of the 3 6 9 for now.

This phenomenon started to stand out because of how the 3 6 9 kept repeating when I was marking my card and some of the runs I get with it are freaky like I said.


Then I read a few things Nikola Tesla said.

So I think there is more to this 3 6 9 than just pure luck.

It does run right through the game which I will show you all when I present some new ideas.

Anyway, as I always say, don't take my word for it. Test it and you can see for yourself.

cheers

 "If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe." -Nikola Tesla

I discovered something about the numbers 3 6 9 when I was working on system9 earlier this year. I will share it on this thread.

What I will say is that it is the most 'freaky' thing that I have ever witnessed when playing this game.

It will take a bit of explaining and I will start in the morning when I have a clear head. (It is about 1.00am here now)

He was at war with them
and they killed him before he could kill them

The Secret Service stood down.

Dallas and Texas law enforcement stood down.

Military intelligence, which is normally enrolled to provide presidential security, stood down.

The FBI stood down.

These elements opened the door to the assassination, but did not have the resources to deliver the shooters and the complicated cover story and witness elimination program that followed.

Corrupt elements of the CIA and their long term friends and colleagues in organized crime did.

And they did it because their very survival was at stake.

After decades of non-investigation by the epically corrupt Herbert Hoover, Robert Kennedy - the president's brother and Attorney General - was going after organized crime full force.

JFK was going after the criminal elements that had taken over the CIA.

Neither of the Kennedy brothers were choir boys, but this was a heroic effort on their parts and done for the good of the country. Had they succeeded, they would have averted many of the catastrophes that have befallen the US - and other countries (many hundreds of millions of people) - in the last 49 years

The Kennedy brothers knew the risks involved in their operations and what they attempted required great moral and physical courage, the likes of which have rarely been seen in the history of this country.

It's noteworthy that this story, one of the most important in post-war 20th century history, has been completely erased from the public mind.

http://youtu.be/MnwHQxbuPeE


I don't believe in a lot of the conspiracy theories that are thrown around on the internet but this was a sad day for America and the rest of the world at large.

Quote from: Bayes on November 20, 2012, 05:20:32 PM
This thread is going waaaay off topic. 

That would be my fault. 

Back on topic......

I was thinking about card counters back in the day.

You could argue they had a hit and run strategy. The term 'wonging' it was used when players just stood in the background monitoring the count waiting for it to turn positive.
They would then jump in and place some bets. They stopped playing once the count went negative again. This could also be applied to shuffle tracking techniques.

Now you may say what's that got to do with roulette and what does a negative expectation game have to do with a game which can be positive at times for the player.

Well it's my experience that 'wonging' it in roulette works just as good (if not better) for me than it ever did in blackjack. The triggers in blackjack are a positive count. The trigger in roulette is something working well along the lines of gizmo's theory of the three states.
(It's working, fair to middling, it's not working at all) And I always bail out at the first loss and look for the next opportunity.

I just don't think everything is as black and white as maybe some would like it to be.
Sure, some mathematical proof would back things up but you also have experienced players saying a 'kind' of hit and run works for them.

cheers.

Well I am happy to get the ball rolling if this gets the green light.

I have 2 books I can donate for now.

'How to win at roulette and blackjack' by Roy Ward Dickson.

This book does cover a lot of ground for anybody interested in hot numbers and the cyclic nature of roulette.

'Roulette for the millions' by Patrick O'Neil Dunne.

This book is about a group much similar to Norman Leigh who took on the casino in Macao.
There is a 20,000 spin supplement that comes with this book as well.

2-3 months or 6 months even! You are right Bayes. It would be a great addition to this forum as something unique to differentiate us from the rest.

cheers

I was just thinking of ways how we could be self sustaining without the need for ads and did come up with an idea which may work.

How about a roulette book library.

I have a lot of roulette books that I don't read anymore. I am sure there are a few of us like that.

How about donating them to the forum and setting up a bookshop.

The books could maybe be sold for £5.00 each + postage. This would be much cheaper than buying them new.

Let's see if we can come up with some good ideas.

Quote from: Bayes on November 20, 2012, 10:35:08 AM
I'm still keen on the idea of building an online roulette game which I talked about a while ago on the other forum, but I haven't got very far with the project yet, partly due to other commitments.

Hello Bayes

I always liked that idea of yours.

It would be great for the forum as well. We could have a monthly competition or something like it which would be fun.

I would be be prepared to stump up some cash for something like that. I don't know about anybody else. How time consuming would something like that be to build?

cheers

I wll likely get shot down in flames here from a maths perspective but I think the player who walks up to the table and puts it all on the first spin is more than likely a recreational gambler.

p.s. I do have to justify my years of research somehow.