Quote from: Mudiru on May 11, 2013, 11:26:21 AM
Thanks for the fast response. I wrote the numbers from your videos in my excel file from the 1st page of this thread and it tells me to bet different. In the end i still win, but this means you modified your excel file since then and i was wondering if i could get the new one, when i loose to much with the 1st excel i will use the 2nd to recover and so on..

Mudiru,
Here u go.

Quote from: Albalaha on May 11, 2013, 10:57:37 AM
Ok. What does your excel say to you, let me know? What is the max bet, biggest drawdown, best figure in winning and how much did it finish with?


        Greatgr...
                   I am asking to you.

Sumit,
I have attached the excel again so that you can see easily. As you can see i have played my method both using flat bet and cyclical progression. Flat bet gave me a loss of 65 units at the end and cyclical progression gave me a win of 287 units.
No re-engineering of results nothing. Concepts that i have clearly explained and results based on that.

With flat betting
best figure - +64 units
Biggest drawdown - -147 units
Finish with - -65 units
max bet - flat 1 unit

With cyclical progression(up as you lose, down as you win, reset at a new high)
best figure - +323 units
Biggest drawdown - -188 units
Finish with - +287 units
max bet - 3 units

Any queries, please ask.

  thanks flat!  very novel idea on bet selection!


Bayes is a whizz indeed!

n problems.  eventhough I don't recommend the use of excels like that there is no harm in sharing the excel I used in the video .  i will upload it as soon as am able to access my PC which is possibly after the weekend.  hope its fine. o

What is  your bet for fa final mate

Absolutely Drazen. This longer stretch what we are trying to address in cyclic way to make it powerful 

Quote from: Mudiru on May 11, 2013, 02:00:44 AM
@GreatGrampa: Such an easy framework/system, yet so complex.
1)I did a virtual test with 5 cycles, max bet 2 units and ended up with 8 units profit at a live table. Was it just luck or should work the same at a live wheel?

Should work the same at live wheel. 

Quote from: Mudiru on May 11, 2013, 02:00:44 AM2)The 0 should be written in the excel sheet? I think we should skip it because it messes results.

Immaterial.  Some cases it will work in your favors. Sme cases it will work against. But you can improvise it. 

Quote from: Mudiru on May 11, 2013, 02:00:44 AM3)I see the rules of the game have changed and we bet different, can i get the latest excel? Or you will still be using the old one from page 1?

The rules remain the same.  If you are a system player then there need to multiple excel files, as there multiple systems here based on a single framework.  Unfortunately,I am not able to help as I don't have excels for all that has been discussed so far




All the best

Sounds good boss.  All ears.  Lets keep it coming

Lets get an example.  Lets take a RB EC string.  Rbbrrbrbbr.  If you ar not using cycles you would bet when the situation is favorable or continuously and win or lose completely every bet. 




Now consider cycles.  I decide to go for a 5 cycle bet here with a base unit of 1.  Now am not going for a 1 unit bet on 10 spins.  I am essentially going for a 5 unit bet on 2 outcomes. But my outcome is spread across 5 spins and hence my bet is evenly spread across the spins that form this outcome.  (Yes gramps. Now you are talking).  So in other words this is the equivalent of placing two 5 unit bets along the entire 10 spins.  If you are not cycle betting, then each 5 unit bet is either lost or doubled.  But if you ar cycle betting and spreading it evenly in your cycle then you have a greater chance of getting a partial return on both these 5 unit bets.  Hope this clarifies why it works better.  It is all about percentage play. It is all about getting a similarity to inter session money management where you create smaller playing bankrolls out of your huge bank roll. We have essentially created smaller bets out of our one bigger playing bet. 




You could now invariably apply any progression that you would apply if you understand this concept.  Lets take an example of JPs up and pull in simplest form.  You bet 2 units, on a win you regress and then use that to ride the wins.  Get to our cycles now.  So essentially if we are adapting 5 spins per cycle we will start with 10 units per cycle.  Treat each cycle as a bet and apply JPs method.  If we win this cycle we will regress to 5 units and then we will up the stakes every win.  (It is a bit advanced cycle play and not as easy as I have explained.  But my intention here is to Bly explain how to treat each cycle as a single bet and apply progressions as ou would).   


So this is the concept on cycle betting.  It's all about getting into a percentage mode.  It could be done either flat betting or getting into a progression per cycle.  ( I was saving this for one of my videos on triple shooter as it will be boring to see a person doing the same things over and over again.  But turner prompted me to share this earlier).   I will talk on my second mathematical explanation when this one sinks in, because at least for me it took nearly 10-15 days to understand the concept and answering why it works after flat posted it first in Steve's forum.


One word of caution, it doesn't work on all betting positions and all betting patterns.  It works best when you are betting on a even return(note not even chances. Betting on 18 straight or 9 split etc are even return betting patterns). Also I have seen scenarios where this tanks, but it tanks less as compared to if you are not using a cyclic method. So it is very necessary to define and follow a strong MM that will go with it.  That's all folks for now until I return back on the second mathematical explanationexplanation

Ok! Now for folks who believes in Mathis and not sayings from old men!! There are two mathematical explanations.  The first one is purely on money management or directly on why cyclical progression and the second one is on how the wheel behaves. 


Remember what I said about why and how I have attempted converting bets into percentage play? Percentage play is going to ensure that you are not going to lose all you bet all the time and even at a loss going to provide partial wins most of the times.  This is going to ensure that you are going to recoup from your losses on a winning stride quicker than you would do when you are losing your bets completely.  Very true and a fact right! This is why we bet all 3 even chances!  Gramps! Stop preaching triple shooter and get to the point!


For a moment lets forget cyclic betting.  Lets see how a medium to advanced player would go for even chances.  Most of them would wait for a pattern to develop.  Some would wait for 4 spins, some 5 and some 6 for a continuous pattern and based on their intuition would go for or against the pattern.  Most of the even chance bet selection is dependent on this framework and the implementation would vary from individual to individual.  Now on an average someone would bet on any particular even chance lets say once every 3 or 4 spins and may lose all or win double of their bets. 


In cyclic betting essentially what we are doing is we are spreading this single bet across the cycle so that we are able to play a percentage play.  Confused?

Quote from: Albalaha on May 11, 2013, 05:25:33 AM
Juiced,
          Do not put your expert comments here because that is not sought. If you can illustrate how GreatGramp's method wins, do that here. He has yet to prove anything and he has just put a theory like many others which he feels, should win.

Sumit did u not see the excel I posted with the results for the entire 15000 spins?

Hey Turner!  Absolutely fantastic.  I will try explaining why it works. May be flat can add more. 

A) I see a quote in your signature. Let me try explaining this from Bhagwat Gita.  Lord Krishna advices Arjuna that success and losses comes in waves.  One who is strong enough to face a wave of loss can taste the wave of success.  One who accepts this fact and doesn't spend their energies fighting the wave of loss and saves it will live to taste success. 

B) I saw another signature of a fellow forumer on sun tzu.  Sun tzu teaches us not to hurry things in a war.  It teaches us to defend as much as one can even after waves and waves of enemy forces comes through and weaken your opposition before you start to strike. 

Now two important teachings.  A powerful progression by the name of dalembert. 

How many times have we seen the roulette table behave like a sin wave. No matter what you do you keep losing at times and not matter what you do you keep winning at times.  This is loss and win waves.  And at times the losing waves looks like eternity.  If you spend your chips progressing when u r in a loss cycle you will get into the cycle from hell.  But if you preserve it and use it for defending and weaken the loss wave you will have the hips left to strike it rich when the win wave comes.  It is essentially capturing a bigger part of the pie to control your progression instead of treating every spin as win or loss.  Having said that it doesn't work for all possible frameworks. 


Now this is more of a philosophical answer.  After all roulette has many similarities with the way you approach life.  I will follow this with a mathematical explanation and also the factors that need to be considered before considering a cyclical bet and the details of it like how to decide on the number cycles per spin etc.  in a hurry now, so probably after The weekend.  Till them looking for more discussion on this

Great flat. A couple of lines of explanation would be much appreciated. 

Quote from: Turner on May 09, 2013, 09:49:51 PM
4 cycles at 1u. Only last cycle ended +


1 1 1, 2 2 2, 3 3 3, 4 4 4 +28u

Great Turner. Also a warm welcome to this forum.

Now as promised the video with bet selection as Atlantis described! I am leaving you with some thoughts on does bet selection really matters? Based on my experience it is a big NO. It is what we call fallacy and am very much part of the fallacy myself by varying my bet selections, finding a simple way to do it so on and so forth. What really is hte stronger aspect of this method is the cyclical progression and betting on all 3 even chances in an attempt to convert the wins or losses into percentages rather than a total loss or win. We will see more on this in the next session, but at the moment, it is anyone's guess (or theory) and my experience.
Session 2

Folks lets not get personal and focus on methods that can stand!
How about the idea that i posted. I had also posted the excel with how that idea stands by and delivers results. Is that idea not good enough to get moderate profits from a long term loser. If not, can someone improvise more on that and other ideas posted so far.

Bayes! Being a wiz, you can comment on whether its mathematically possible?