Quote from: GGasoft on May 08, 2013, 07:50:20 AM
Who teach you manrique Great Granmpa?

Just through forums and info in net.  Happy to learn always if someone can. 

Quote from: Buffalowizard on May 07, 2013, 09:15:27 PM
Nice explanation Atlantis, I think it's a great and elegant way to utilise all three ECs.
I think it demands further testing, especially if flat bets hold up
BW

We can do more tests, but based on what I have seen and the time spent on this framwork, flat betting will not hold up long or consistently in every session.

Fantastic implementation of the framework Atlantis!  You have done total justice to the name Triple shooter by evenly distributing your bets across all three even chances every spin, used the cyclic progression which best fits this framework and kept your bet selection simple.  What more can you ask from a fellow forumer.  Also you have clearly established hat contrary to popular belief you don't need 3 times your typical bank roll used for only one even chance as against 3 ECs. 

This is exactly why I wanted it be seen as a framework and not a system, as it opens up multitude of possibilities based on a simple set of rules. The more people contribute and adapt we will be able to figure out more variations and learn from each other. This is the exact reason I startes this thread.

Now what I shall do is, to use this variation blindly for my next session video as a tribute to Atlantis.  And I promise to do the same for anyone who is able to improvise the framework and provide a successful adaptation within the rules of the framework   

Great job Atlantis   You have led the way to open up a can of worms (or should I say a treasure chest). 

Quote from: Atlantis on May 07, 2013, 02:59:03 PM
Thanks for the video explanations, gramps...
Which way would you advise playing the 3 EC then on the r.n.g. roulette? The way you showed us originally or the way shown in the video (against the wheel)??
How do you decide which to follow?
Thanks,
A.

A,
I will stop short of recommending this, as my knowledge on RNG casino is very limited to what i have seen today. I know there are other experts on this forum, who have a sea of experience who can comment better on this.

What i can tell you is my take from real life casino. I would generally read a couple of tables for 10-15 spins for either following the wheel or going against the wheel. Depending on which one comes on top, i follow that method. Now once we have decided, it is again not set in stone. I might decide to change mid-session into either following or against depending on what is happening in the table. Sometimes, I decide upfront before getting into a table that i will alternate every spin or every set of 5 spins or every 1,2,3 spins. If I decide to alternate this every 1,2,3 spins, I will play following the wheel for first spin, against the wheel for spin number 2 and 3 and following the wheel for spin numbers 4,5 and 6. This alternation is another attempt at breaking any trend or experienced dealers reading your framework and reacting to limit your gains. (Or my take on beating randomness with randomness if I can call it that way:) ). that's why i said this is not a system and you have to adapt based on what's happening within the rules of the framework. Some may say its all a fallacy and doesn't matter whether you follow or play against, but hey the whole roulette game is based on fallacy as the greatest mathematician in Einstein couldnt break it!

Having said that, not changing/adapting is not going to get you into a deep well as long as you follow disciplined MM. Its just that you will not be able to maximize your profit or limit your losses and hence will take a longer time to grow your bank roll.  So lets say i might double my playing bankroll in 8-10 sessions without adapting to what is happening in the table as opposed to only 3-4 sessions while you are able to constantly adapt to what is happening.

Chris,

Essentially I had two physical bankrolls of 100 unit each and 18 imaginary bankrolls of 100 unit each before the start of the session. This totals up to 2000 units.

Now before the session starts I take 2 units as erosion fund. This erosion fund I will directly deposit into my pocket. I am not going to touch this 2 unit for playing at all. So whatever happens, the casino is going to take only 98 units from me. That leaves us with 1998 units (198 physical units and 1800 imaginary units).

Now at the end of the session, I have +14 units. I take 50% of this into my pocket, which the casino is not going to get their hands on. So my pocket strength is now 9 units (2 unit from erosion fund 7 units from session 1). After pocketting it, we are left with 7 units. We take 50% of this remaining rounded to the next highest whole unit into our playing BR. 50% of 7 units rounded off is 4 units, which will go into our playing bank roll. Our playing bankroll was 98, it becomes 102 now. That leaves us with 3 units, which we get into a new Bankroll called cushion BR.

So at the end of the session our bankrolls look like this.
Physical playing bank roll - 102 units
Physical recovery bank roll - 100 units
Imaginary bank roll - 1800 units (18 bankrolls of 100 unit each)
Cushion bank roll - 3 units
Pocket - 9 units.

Hope this clarifies your question. I will make things clearer on why am doing what i am doing as we get into more sessions, as it is easier to explain things as it happens rather than explaining it upfront. But essentially the concept revolves around a single motto "Make it as difficult as possible for the casino to get THEIR hands on YOUR money". Not to deviate from the current thread, I will stop this here and probably some other time walkthrough various MM concepts and share what works for me and the framework around it, so that one can define one of their own that suits them.
P.S. Thanks Chris for pointing the mistake. Typo corrected and your post deleted

Thanks for all your feedback on Triple shooter framework. Undertaking a challenge there has opened up the world of possibilities for me into the RNG casino world and learning and adapting my methods of play to into the RNG world. Not that i am a fan of sitting infront of the computer doing stuff alone, as what drives me is the whole atmosphere of the live casino, enjoyeable chat that you will have with the dealer over a drink and thrill of it. But anything is a learning process and hope i will get some good luck at the end of the Triple shooter challenge.

While that's continuing, i thought it is always monotonic to just look at the even chances and outside chances and discuss about it. So I thought why not start another thread that focusses on inside bets and it will help me in two separate learning processes over the next month, one on inside bets and other on outside bets.

So here we go - this framework is called The Finale Countdown.

As i have seen in this forum and other forums, and many of the books that i have read, it's a rarity if not non-existent of a method that takes into account the Finale (or the ending digits of the spin). The framework that i am going to consider for discussion here is going to use exactly that "The Finale".

Now as always with respect to the concepts.  Call me boring, but without understanding these concepts there is no way one will be able to gain success on a long term. These concepts are what make on a successful player and not the systems!

Basic Building Concept 1 : Finale Finer Details
Finale is something that is unique, because it thrives in anamolies. For eg, there are 18 reds and blacks, there are 12 sets of 3 streets and 3 sets of dozens. So everything is almost symmetric in a roulette table, but for Finale. It alternates between 3 or 4 sets of numbers. The following numbers have 3 sets of finales (7,8,9) and others have 4 sets of finales (0,1,2,3,4,5,6). In case of american tables, the finale zero will have 5 sets. Also, we know that an inside straight bet returns us 1:35. So is there any merit in looking at this anamoly and combining it with the straight bet? Does this anamoly balance the imbalance in equilibrium caused by the uneven return of 35/36 or 35/37 in 0 and 00 tables respectively? Lets explore more on this when we discuss the framework in detail.

Basic building concept 2 : Keep things simple
Because of the above anamolies, the finale is very difficult to track. And also it doesn't naturally come to a beginner to medium skilled player as they are trained to look at the layout, look at even chances, dozens, streets, straights and so on, but for Finales. So tracking the wheel for multiple spins (which is an essential for inside bet) is just going to complicate things ( I for once think the winkel's GUT would have been a far greater success if the betting process is much simpler than what it is currently). So to keep things simple, we should just track back 1 spin and at the most 2 spins to make the most use of "The Finales". Any longer than that is going to result in absolute chaos in the table. Also, for a beginner to medium player it is very very difficult to be able to track bets on more than 6-7 even chances. These factors need to be taken into account while defining a framework that is going to be simple.

So, leaving you with these thoughts as it was a long day today, and will soon be back with some more concepts before we look into the framework.

Session 1. Hopefully, further sessions will be quick and i will try to summarize, if there is nothing to explain.

Triple shooter - Session 1

Quote from: Chrisbis on May 07, 2013, 12:01:24 PM
The central idea, (as I see it) is knowing at any one time, what the Win/Loss registry is on the wheel your playing at, and therefore changing your betting strategy to suit that changing environment.

Absolutely Chris, the central idea is to keep things simple (LW register), chose the strategy best suiting the environment (in this case a cycle progression) and follow what is happening. As promised, I have started working on the videos and will post as soon as am ready.

Initial set up
Triple shooter - Starting brief

Quote from: Albalaha on May 06, 2013, 06:38:02 AM
I am not ignoring anybody. If you have a claim, the onus to prove lies with you, not me. If you can't do it yourself, let someone come up forward and test your idea, if it appeals, to someone. If you can't test your idea on entire data, consider yourself a loser, so far it is confirmed as a winner. Till then, keep patience.
            So far many came with raw ideas to beat it. Yet to see any clear method illustrated over the entire session and that is winning unambiguously.

Refer to the excel I posted. I tested the concept on the complete 15000 spins

What about my excel and method Sumit.  You seem to ignore it

Quote from: Bayes on May 04, 2013, 07:54:10 AM

If you're betting all 3 EC's at the same time your variance is going to be 3 times what it would be betting on a single EC, so you should triple the bank you have budgeted for 1 if you're going to bet 3. While all 3 EC's may not trend together very often or for long, it will happen often enough for you to need those extra banks.


But I like your "cyclic" approach. 

Can't agree more with you! But based on my experience I believe it doesn't happen enuf   enough    if  you adopt a proper inter and intra session mm to need extra banks.  This is why I have decided to take a 90 session challenge.  Who knows it might tank!  But I have a feeling it won't, because I have done this earlier. 

Quote from: Sputnik on May 04, 2013, 06:46:26 AM
-

I have a question.

I been thinking about looking into John Patrick's way.
Playing against 9 high reds, using low and black.

That way i can see a reason why you would play more then one even money position.
But i don't understand the reason why you would play all six even money position.

Can it be you try to take advantage out of equilibrium's when you aim for triple position?

Sputnik


What I would like to stress what I said earlier is this is not a system. It's a framework. The reason I picked three even chances, is not to break equilibrium, but to create a bet which provides percentage returns in a percentage game. Also, we need to take the other concepts into consideration. Taking 3 even chances alone in isolation will not get us anywhere. 


If played as a system, this will be an absolute bonker. The advice as I said in the start of thread to anyone is to understand concepts and evolve a framework which will suit the play following the table. I have decided to take a  90 session challenge to show how to use this framework.  Will post videos starting with a 100 unit bankroll and see how far we go either at the end of 90 sessions or the evaporation of 100 unit br whichever is earlier. 


Wish me good!

Sumit,

Proof in the attached sheet. Infact we got more betting opportunities that i thought. For the method refer to my previous post. We got 36 betting opportunities and we won 22 of them. That is close to 60% win. And the beauty so far is it is only a flat bet and we don't need a huge bank roll

If we apply a cyclic progression on this, or the libertyto apply parachuting we will win with a huge margin.

So the idea is keeping things simple using a LW register, following the table and keeping your mm tight.  Having solved this, this is not a HG as there never will be one and it's a total time waste as there are better things to do.

Quote from: GreatGrampa on May 03, 2013, 10:04:49 AM
30 - REH - W   - +1                         - Next bet is REH. Overall we are +2 now.
35 - BOH - L    - -1                          - We bet 3 and got back 2. This is marked as L as per register. So we bet against the chances. Next bet will be REL. Over all we are +1 now.
14 - REL - L     - +3                         - We won all the 3 bets and got back 6. However as per LW register, this will be marked as "L" eventhough we won the bet. that's because none of the last even chance repeated. THIS IS KEY. Next bet will be against the chances as the register says L. It will be on BOH. Overall we are +4 now.
                             

Chris,

Let me try explaining. Lets say you start the table from 2 numbers before the number you had in question.

30 - REH

35 - BOH - L        - No bet. But am marking this as a loss as only one EC matched. The comparison for LW is made between 30 and 35 and not what you bet on. Here you have not bet anything. Because the LW register said L, irrespective of what you bet on, you bet next for the even chances on 35 to fail. For 35 to fail you have to bet on REL.

14 - REL - L        - For a moment forget that you bet on REL. As previous, make the comparison between 35 and 14. it's a loss, so you mark the LW register as loss and bet for the next number also to be loss on 14. So the next bet selection will be BOH. So basically the LW register here is not whether you lost your previous bet or not. The LW register is how the number in current spin performed against the number in previous spin. So your next bet is based on what you see on the table and not based on what you bet last time. What you bet on and whether you lost or won is immaterial here as we are using a cyclic progression to see whether we won a cycle or lost a cycle.

Let me know whether this clarifies! Alternatively, I would suggest to use the excel to input numbers one by one and see how the next betselection suggestion comes up. You will be able to get it eventually.

Albalaha,

First of all, anyone playing in real casino will tell you point blank that these numbers are fake and have not seen in their experience of a life time.

Second, we don't prove any point by winning this challenge, as there is no holy grail. Only MM and MM only can take you to win things.

Third, now that there is a challenge, this is how you approach it. You break it into utmost simplicity. Consider one 36 spin cycle as a single bet. Keep an LW register for this 36 spin cycle to see whether you Lose or Win a cycle. Because the risk of losing is very high and we are not following any MM or whatsoever, we have to be very careful and take the least risky approach.

So we bundle 5 sets of this 36 spin cycle into one LW register. So essentially we have an LW register that consists of 5 sets of 36 spins. Now what you do is you start betting the next 5 set if you got a "W" in the previous cycle and within the 5 set cycle again bet only if the previous 36 spin cycle was a "W". Stop betting as soon as you hit a spin and come out of both the LW registers and wait for another "W".

For 15,000 spins that you have shown here, max bank roll required was 36 units for me. There were 14 betting opportunities. 10 of them won and 4 of them lost. Final unit count was +5 units.

Finally, what's the point. it's a total time waste, as you will never find the holy grail. There is a reason why it is called a holy grail.