selling fine - claims wihtout support NG.

Quote from: Lungyeh on June 19, 2017, 02:40:03 AM
Glen, Jimske!! This is getting too much! Wth! We having someone who plays the investment markets full time and analyses the baccarat game part time and writes his dreams when he sleeps teaching the fishes how to swim and we indulge his discussions?

LOL,  Hi BL!  Yeah, just trying to keep it real in my own fashion!  Off for the summer - going to float around a bit.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 18, 2017, 01:55:00 AM
Well then you seem to be the be all end all! 
You claim it does not work but then can't be baothered to test it! What then is the point of your post of not to try and have a pop at me! 

Pay attention.  I didn't claim it didn't work.  I'm skeptical.  Don't turn it aroound.  The onus is not on me to test and prove your method.  What's missing here is that YOU can't be bothered to test it!  Why?

You also avoid fair questions. 

Like why don't you send it to some capable person of your choosing and have it tested?

Like where did you get NOR from? and how much did you pay for it?

You see, as a vendor you are going to be held at a higher standard than guys who just have some ideas theynwant to kick around.

J

Quote from: Sputnik on June 18, 2017, 10:20:00 AM
Jimske Stephen Tabone is sponsor of this forum board and have the right to talk about he book and opinions.

No argument from me there.

QuoteThe issue i have and i don't know if Stephen Tabone have overcome this or not.  When i test variants of my method i make a list of 100 sessions all flat betting and try to get winning sessions to overcome losing sessions.
At the end of the 100 session i am even with most of my different methods.

I don't feel is hard to flat betting and win +2 units on regular basis, but at some point you give it all back and end up even.

Add commision and it produces a loss.

QuoteIt has to be the same for Stephen Tabone with his method.

I read he aim to win +3 units and have a loss limit of -6 units.
Then the minimum is winning two session out of three to break even.

Again - commission.  I always calculate commisin in my tests.

QuoteNow if Stephen Tabone would claim that he could win more then two session out of three using his methodology flat betting, then i would considering to buy his book.

Part of the problem is significant number of trials.  Correct me if I am wrong but he doesn't provide any numbers like average number of bets made per session.  Most guys don't expect a million trials.  But I think something on the order of 10,000 trials would be sufficient to begin a discussion. 

QuoteBut other members from this forum board have made some testing and not getting similar results towards that.
Should also mention that the testing from forum members has not been 100% correct as they aim to win +3 units or lose -6 units without counting all shoes where  you would break even (does would make the -6 result less) as Stephen Tabone mention that if he lose some and win some and not reach his win target during half the shoe he aim to quit and break even.
The members who test his method or mention that they did - did not include this option and therefor the results is not true picture of Stephen Tabone method.

Yes, perhaps the tests here not accurate.  I would generally accept Andy's test since I believe he understands the method.  But 50 shoes doesn't make a loser either. 

Stephen's unwillingness to provide some basic data (because it doesn't exist) and his insistence that book sales are proof positive taints every comment he makes.  Come on.  All he has to do is have someone run some numbers and post the results and he'd have tons of book sales!

J

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 18, 2017, 01:27:02 AM
FREE follow Strategy to this forum

You follow player or banker when either reaches 3 in a row, continue to follow the run until it breaks. Join the next run when whatever player or banker reaches 3. So play for the 4th +
3 is the key, it's the trigger, the strong indicator that a run is likely.

if you want another FREE strategy let me know and I will post.

Sigh.  How likely?

About 15 years ago I wrote a Bacc strategy and put a little team together.  We collected thousands of live shoes and ran some programs to determine if we could find some +EV bets.  We found one that appeared to have a positive expectation.  We call it Longer Still (LS) and it only worked on Bank.  So after a run went 1 longer than it previously did a bet was placed that it would go 1 more and stop.  Does it really hold up long term?  I don't know.

Point is, what makes you think your free trigger is a "strong indicator that a run is likely."  Not necessary to produce the data.  Nobody here who has the ability will bother to run it.  Just tell us how you arrived at such a conclusion.

Frankly, Stephen, I am skeptical.  Call me suspicious but this kind of post seems to be a self serving little bit of nothing to keep people engaged.

J

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 18, 2017, 12:27:51 AM
I get the sense you're very angry 
But I can't see why save that you asked me on another thread how much I paid for NOR and I wrote I sourced the information via youtube. Then you come ere and display vindictiveness. Isn't it better that you keep your cool  :thumbsup:and add to the debate?

Ya got me all wrong.  Don't jump to conclusions.  I'm not angry.  I enjoy participating in discussions about Baccarat and I also enjoy pushing back on posers who have ulterior motives.  Be honest.  There is only one reason you are here.  Look at the last post that I commented on in a forthright non-vindictive way.  You present this whole diatribe just so you can put in a plug for your book!  LMAO.  Sorry, ya can't bullshite a  bullshiter.    (Andy you missed that one )

Let me not beat around the bush about that question anymore.  You tried to dodge it I know.  Nice try but sorry, answer the question!  You know and I know that you didn't purchase NOR which is a copyrighted method from my long time friend Ellis.  Yet you got the unmitaged gall (I kind of like that expression) to expect others to respect your own copyright.   (starting to like mojis)

Just a debate, nothing personal.  You're probably an all right guy and I realize that it takes an awful lof of time and energy to put a book together.  I got no issue with you selling the book.  In fact I think  it is a good way to make some money if one is so inclined.  But please let's not pretend that you are debating Baccarat.

Dude - you ae making fantastic claims that you admit you cannot back up!  So you get the Pinnochios!!!!  Sorry bud, you're a fake, a phony, and a fraud.   And whle I'm at it:  Hiking up the price of the book someone said.  Not exactly a class act!  Why sugar coat it?  Man up, own it!

J

PS - so anoying not to ahve spwell chek.  !!!

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 17, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
From all the gamblers I've ever met – and I've met many over the years – who have tried to win at the game of Baccarat, I have never known any one single person who wins regularly at the game and moreover a gambler who can honestly claim to be in profit from playing the game. That was until I wrote my book. I often receive emails and facebook messages from all over the world from people stating that they are winning.

But before I published my book many told me they win, they are up (in profit), but when I watched them play and I found that the very opposite was true; that they were in fact losing. In short they had been losing for so long that they'd adopted a winning stance because they were in denial about the true reality of their years of losing. When you really get to know such people, they eventually open up and admit that they can never win and have lost a lot of money over the years.

So what had gone wrong with such gamblers who set out trying to win playing Baccarat but never do? Maybe they were just having a bad day when they lost and there will be better days perhaps... But when I watched them play on other days and history repeated itself and they ended up losing, certainly overtime anyhow. That's not to say that they never at some point in the game went into profit. But even at the times when they did go into profit, on the whole they could not tell me why because most don't even follow a strategy and are probably only winning, when they are winning based on luck and or mistakes or irrational / emotional decision making.

When I write 'mistakes', what I mean is they have a rough idea of a way they play, the decisions they make, it's not a strategy they could explain, as you'll find in my book, 'The Ultimate Bullet Proof Winning Strategy'.
They just have a loose idea of a method, and they even go against it because it does not work for most of the time, and they end up winning some hands by sheer luck on the basis that they went against their own idea of how to win at the game of Baccarat. In essence their way of playing is on the whole fairly random and in order to win you'll need to adopt a more scientific formula.

All the regular Baccarat players I used to meet were simply just losing. Most big players i.e. players who stake large amounts of money, are business people who have regular incomes. Though they try their hardest to win at the game, they fail and are losing a lot of money betting in the hundreds and even thousands. They don't really care that much since their regular income means that they will always have money to feed the casinos! And the casinos love these VIP types of gamblers. They treat them with complimentary restaurant food, drinks and VIP comps to keep them coming back as they do because they are made to feel so welcome.

Then you have your semi regular Baccarat gambler who will lose all of his money and return at a later date with more funds only to repeat history and leave the casino a loser. Sometimes he might win, and even leave in profit, but on the whole he will leave a loser. He might even have a not too bad way of playing the game. A way that might mean that at some point in the game he goes in to profit, yet since he does not take that profit and leave up he ends up losing. He will be another type of casino feeder. He will probably be a better player than the rich businessman or the man or woman who has come into some money and since they feel so rich don't mind so much when they lose since they have so much more money to fall back on. That is until it's all gone.

The semi regular Baccarat gambler is stubborn. He develops a strategy that does not work over time. Though he keeps losing he sticks to it. From time to time he may develop another losing strategy. Again he loses because what all his strategies have in common is that they are based on greed and not on fair unit wins.   

What type of gambler are you?

blah, blah, blah.  What a load of shite, this made up story about all the gamblers he knows that revealed this or that , etc.  Let's cut to the chase.  What I got after reading every word was:

Quoteas you'll find in my book, 'The Ultimate Bullet Proof Winning Strategy'.

Give it a rest.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 17, 2017, 07:45:28 PM
I saw it there a few weeks ago it was pricey can't remember, a lot of it is on youtube too but once i was able to make sense of it, i knew it was no use. There are not many good books out there, mine is one of if not the best strategies on how to win. a lot of books just tell you about the game. My research is advanced. I've worked out all combinations of possibles and probables and devised a system that works. link on the link below to try it. It costs less than an average small bet, lot less than a lot of systems I've heard about people paying in the 100s of $ for

So you failed to answer my question.  How much did you pay for it?

Wow - I didn't realize NOR was on Amazon - how much did you pay for it?

Correct, NOR is always looking at the past so Ellis then combined using S40 and S40A which I think Andy mentioned your method a lot like S40 but without the OTR (On the Run).  Sputnik is incorporating the LC and MC but don't forget that these are "weighted" proportionate to their average frequency.  Soxfan recently posted a more accurate event average for consideration.  The hope is to get a more accurate picture of the bias.  But that still leaves one with a choice.  Bet for the bias to continue or against it to not!

This is all fun becasue we like patterns and games and order but it's all nonsense becasue there is no leading indicator.  The best thing I can say about it is any plan is better than no plan.  With some experience it is just as easy to determine the bias by looking at the shoe as it develops.  LC, MC; Player/Banker shoe; Dom of 1's; and even looking at P and B independently.  In this manner we can determine the present strengths and weakness.  No we don't have to bet every hand (I do).  Rather look at a certain strength and bet into some groups hoping the bias we choose will continue for a short bit.

Maybe someone will send me Stephen Tabones rules and I'll play a few shoes for the group.  Then we can see how it plays.

I wonder how much he paid Ellis for NOR?  LOL

Quote from: scaldedcat on June 17, 2017, 08:34:11 AM
Stephen, I have read all the threads regarding your books. What stands out to me is that you are telling all that book 3 is going to be the real deal. So although the first two books were sold as the answer to winning at baccarat,  what you are now saying is that you need to purchase book 3 which is "bullet proof" etc.

You kindly have advised that you are giving a free copy of book 3 to the first ten people who responded to your offer.

My point in this post is that I would have thought giving those who actually paid for book 1 and/or 2 a free copy would have made more sense as they paid for something that clearly wasn't delivered.

Whether it will be delivered in book 3 remains to be seen but surely those buying your previous books in good faith deserve a chance to find out without wasting further money.

And I notice in one of your posts you say book 3 is that good that you may even decide not to release it. Seems odd that you would come on a site like this promoting the greatness of its contents to then just pull it from sale.

Sorry to be so derogatory (ahem)!  U R right scaldedcat.  This whole thing smacks of a con job or rather a marketing ploy, if you prefer.  The three pillars of marketing: Need, Enthusiasm, Urgency.

But don't worry.  Whatever iteration he eventually finishes up with will be readily available to anyone who asks around in no time.  He knows that and is just trying to get as many book sales as possible before the thing gets proliferated.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 14, 2017, 11:37:45 AM
fake reviews don't get a book into the top #7 best sellers ranked on amazon in baccarat cat, only sale can do that. Many of my books are sold as paperbacks and there have been kindle gift bought for others.

Look - maybe you got a neat little bet placement twist that hasn't been already sampled (I doubt it).  That's fine.  You want to sell some books because that's how you make money.  Okay. 

The onous of proof is on you!  And so far relying on Amazon reviews as proof?  How crazy is that?

I do like the idea of a third book with a new and improved version.  Personally I can't wait.  I'm just hoping and praying - please let me be one of the few to get the magic bet placements!

Beautiful!

Quote from: Sputnik on June 14, 2017, 08:04:58 AM

I get what you are saying and i read about other pro gamblers mention the same thing, when you find the sweet spot you will notice that you are within the sweet spot and should quit and get out.

The sweet spot is also math related, not just a guess.  It can be part of a mechanical system.  I used it with my previously posted "Double Triplets."  I see it as a bell curve within statistical limitations.  When losses and wins begin to become extreme the likelihood (odds) of improvement diminishes so one may as well call stop losses or wins rather than keep going hoping for that "once in a million" improvement.

Quote from: Stephen Tabone on June 14, 2017, 02:25:26 AM
I think a gambler who uses my strategy stops by half way on bad shoes thus leaving at break even. and thereby gaining the advantage on winning shoes. some might even continue more than 3 unit wins on good shoes. I have been up average 7+ unit wins on good shoes and even more than that. I don't know how many play some adapt somewhat. But in general sticking to the rules not only keeps a gambler using the strategy safe, he stays in the game but his aim is to gain the advantage by leaving with plus winnings as stated in my book with references to a day trader. The mistake a lot of people make is to try the system using 100s of shoe results and finding reasons to state that it does not work. In theory if a day trader did this he would never trade therefore not know how to manage risk to reward.

This makes no sense.  You either have rules or don't.  This nonsense that your strategy cannot be programmed to test results is just that - nonsense.  If there is a subjective element that must be conquered to win then the strategy is worthless.  Well granted, it has some value as a benchmark for some, as AD has said, don't have a lot of experience and need a starting point.

Successful day traders are not guessing.  They are using known leading indicators that will give them a positive expectation.  With a positive expectation the only risk one is managing is trading "within their bankroll" so as to overcome downturns.

Quote from: Sputnik on June 13, 2017, 06:59:23 PM
Jimske i join BTC and read about NOR strategy and is not a scam

They're not scams because they're offered for sale.  They're scams becasue they make unfounded and undocumented claims.

From the NOR manual:

The Twelve Steps To Winning Baccarat:

Step 1. Learn our lingo by reading through everything available first. Be sure you know what an Opposite is and what a Repeat is. Know how to bet Opposites and how to bet Repeats.

Step 2. Learn our BEATTHECASINO.COM vertical score card process.

Step 3. Learn our BEATTHECASINO.COM short hand method of posting shoes so that you can ask your questions using shoe examples.

Step 4. Learn the three NOR systems and practice them until you can play each automatically. 

Step 5. Learn how to find the best table in the casino. We pick the table we can beat the easiest.

Step 6. Learn how to select the best of the three systems for the shoe at hand.

Step 7. Learn how to stay in the right Mode.

Step 8. Learn our simple NOR Betting Strategy and how to adjust it. 

Step 9. Learn NOR cash management and tricks of the trade.

Step 10. Practice!

Step 11. Get ALL of your questions answered.

Step 12. Practice some more!