Quote from: Bally6354 on December 23, 2012, 12:28:04 PM
Here is another form of PB where you won't have to wait 6 months to see any results (if you are lucky!)

http://baccaratforums.com/t7202/

@ JL

PB has been around in one form or another for years. I first wrote about it on a forum about 5/6 years ago. A lot of people have tested it and reported it as a failure. The reason I don't knock it is because the basic premise can be improved upon. There is no point in going down with the ship. You wouldn't need to prove anything to anybody if it actually worked in it's basic format. Roulette would no longer exist if it worked like that.

Bally, roulette will always exist. If you gift wrapped a HOLY GRAIL. And gave it to 10 million gamblers. How many of them do you think would even try it?

Of course it can be improved upon. Its called MONEY MANAGEMENT. Pattern breaker isn't supposed to beat the game in its basic form. You don't get that for 7/1. That's common sense. It has to be worked at and money managed to success. Played in short bursts to avoid downturns.

I have a method I consider already to be a H,A,R HOLY GRAIL. Its so strong. I may report a loss in 2020. But when I put it on this forum. I guarantee you not even 10 people will take it seriously. Because it requires 242 UNITS to buy in. Those same people will be prepared to risk their house to get rich in one day.

But not risk 242 units for one of the surest bets that will ever be seen. Such is the human mind. So like I say Bally the games beatable. There just will NEVER be enough people who mentally have what it takes to beat it. That is absolute FACT.

Quote from: atlantis on December 23, 2012, 01:27:28 PM
Hi JohnLegend,

Nice results indeed!

I played another 9 winning games using the 5-L's trigger.
I play it with 2 possible triggers:

LL
LL
L
 
and

WL
LL
LL

For the very first time one game took me right up to step 8 before the WIN (no zero's involved)
That was playing continously though - I really think you are probably right to play this HIT AND RUN style.
Just saying, that's all. Best to stay wary and careful in these early days of testing.

Best wishes,
Atlantis.

Yes Atlantis, I like the two way five loss trigger. Your improvement of the CODE 4 concept, has in turn helped me to perfect CODE 20. REMEMBER THAT ONE?

I will sit on it till the new year. Its looking very strong now. H.A.R is the only way to play this one for me Atlantis.

Quote from: KingsRoulette on December 23, 2012, 09:55:50 AM
This answer of yours show that you are as much empty handed as all others. Keep preaching.

Hey be nice now its Xmas time. Time to put our differences to one side. Until the new year. Merry Xmas everyone.

Quote from: marivo on December 23, 2012, 10:02:48 AM
Does it mean:
LL
LL   ?What was the highest step of progression?
Thanks.

Yes Im using a double trigger like that. I went to step 6 once in those 100 games.

Atlantis is using this
LL
LL
L

Safer but you can wait ages for that. Even the double can take a while. The progression will collect many wins compared to losses. Esoecially H.A.R. I believe 80/1 average is very realistic.

Quote from: KingsRoulette on December 23, 2012, 07:57:47 AM
Gizmo,
         I think u have yet to read my Post script in red.

KR if I believed what you wrote in red. I would have shut up shop and left this game behind long ago. THANKFULLY I don't.

I am playing this method using a double trigger and 8 step progression of 1,1,2,3,5,7,11,16=46 UNITS RISK. I have now completed 100 games. Taking into account the 8 step progression. ALL 100 have won comfortably. The progression hasnt been challenged once over those 100 games..

RESULTS UPDATE FOR CODE 4 *HORIZONTAL*

TOTAL GAMES PLAYED 100

TOTAL GAMES WON 100

TOTAL GAMES LOST ZERO

STRIKERATE 100/0

BALANCE 183 UNITS PLUS

DOULBE LOSSES ZERO

LONGEST WINNING STREAK 100

I believe this is going to turn out to be one of the greatest methods ever published on a forum. Certainly the best SINGLE DOZEN/COLUMN method I have ever seen. When you consider it takes 25--30 wins to match a progression. And it could comfortably win 100/1 What started as  my PATTERN 4, then became CODE 4 from AMKs excellent alternating concept.

Has now become a great single dozen method from Atlantis's relentless testing and morphing of good ideas. I will of course play this method H.A.R. Next update at 150 games.

Quote from: Robeenhuut on December 23, 2012, 06:50:01 AM
My point was that according to stats your runs of 40+ wins are nothing out of ordinary and don't demonstrate advantage of HAR approach. With Shogun stats my point was that his bad run was just less probable. Naming it RFH is a bit of overstatement. What about your 100+ winning streaks. RFH as well but H now stands for Heaven.  Its just ups and downs. Using statistics can verify claims that you can only have some stats playing HAR. As to FIVE i based my stats on your initial claim that you later changed. As to a new method you called DIAMOND is it the one with 5 triggers?

There was no change Matt, just a misunderstanding by you of how the BET TRIGGER worked. FIVE is a winner. It demands PATIENCE of the highest order. So does 7 ON 1.

DIAMOND, that's for you to figure out. There are two new gems on the forum. Both are worthy of serious interest and perseverance. Neither will get them except from me. Its time more people put the work in for themselves. And stop waiting for the miracles to be handed to them.

Quote from: KingsRoulette on December 23, 2012, 06:22:58 AM
Methods because they are not based upon any scientific or mathematical framework but on a blindfaith that this can't happen to me.
      No method here talks of how to handle "sessions from hell" they just believe that "sessions from haven" will come to rescue.

So KR given your answer, attitude. there is NO WAY I can succeed. turn a mere 200 units into thousands and potentially millions right?

The method handles NOTHING, that's the players job. What if a method has no session from hell? Now there's a thought.
What if it suffers a loss so rarely that it is merely a minor setback? And played H.A.R it might lose once in 3,000 games at worse. And H.A.R has no value they say.

Maybe it can't be seen on a method with a small buy in like PB by most. But it will certainly be seen on the next one I publish. You don't bring a single club to the golf course and expect to lift the trophy. You have a bag full of tricks to get the job done.

Quote from: Robeenhuut on December 23, 2012, 05:46:26 AM
Shogun lost 5 times out of 7 playing HAR. This is far less probable than your winning streak of 40. I think that you need to learn some statistics. Your chance of having 40 winning streak is around 1 in 200. Hardly out of ordinary. You are wrong.

Wrong about what matt? Statistics don't grow BRs Matt this is what you all will have to scratch your heads about in 28 weeks.

You can call me wrong until the cows come home. But none of you can explain how wrong will translate into great success. There is for example a new method sitting on this forum. NOT MINE. That is an ABSOLUTE DIAMOND. I already know this. While you are all arguing about the virtues or lackoff for H.A.R and PB whatever.

I've been putting it through the REAL arena of success and failure. And its another winner. Like I said of KRs attitude. IS IT THE METHOD/S that FAIL. OR THE PEOPLE PLAYING THEM?

I know the answer to this and more and more of you will come to know it in the next 6 months and beyond.
One thing I've noticed Matt is you are quick to criticize when you think you have the upperhand. Like when you thought you had me on this 70 wins on the fourth step for FIVE. Now you keep going on about Shoguns run from hell with PB.

But the overall picture remains the same. In only 200 games played he was still slightly above 7/1. Its the LONGRUN. I've carried 5/1 across 200 games AND STILL MADE A PROFIT. Now tell me how im going to fail.

IS IT THE METHOD/S THAT FAIL OR THE PEOPLE PLAYING THEM??

Quote from: MarignyGrilleau on December 23, 2012, 03:15:14 AM
@ Gizmotron
The above post is directed to JohnLegend.
Confucius - "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."


I present data to backup up my claims. that's all.

I will explain better: find all the permutations of 300 spins of a binary distribution. it is something like: 2.03703597e+90
Apply PB bet to each of them.
All the permutations will describe the well known bell curve.
And if you then take small samples from each of them and make a collection of bets, only in less than 1% of the possible cases you will get a std >= 3. Which would grant you the safe use of a progression to survive against average fluctuation.
I don't know how to explain it better.

---

@Gizmotron
Gibberish is your way of directing to others with such paternalism and lack of modesty.

Marigny given your attitude to H,A,R and PB and all that I do. I should have no chance in hell of turning a fragile 200 units into thousands and eventually millions. YES?

This is why im putting myself on the line here. The rest talk a good fight but theyll never put it on the line. Bankrolls don't grow themselves. If everything I do is so flawed and ignorant as you put it. There is no possible way I can succeed.
That's the surprise for all who think like this on its way. You will then say, uh he was just lucky. And as I continue your hold on that belief will become weaker and weaker.

KR says he goes around all the forums and finds everything fails. really, is it the method that fails OR THE PEOPLE PLAYING THEM?? That's the million dollar question. I already know the answer. And as time goes on some of you will come to know the answer too.

Quote from: AMK on December 22, 2012, 10:11:24 PM
Hello JL,


Yes, that is definitely the best way to play based upon your history for just playing H/L on PB.


The main idea behind PB 4 DL is to eventually play with large units, not to sound greedy only efficient.


To generate a sufficient BR will take time, but increasing your base betting amount by 1 unit everytime you triple your initial BR can get you there more efficiently.


If we only play 5 games per day. A consistent strikerate as low as 4/1 played with 100 chips is very nice but I am dreaming, for the moment ; )  20 unit chips will do just fine.


PB 4 DL main working principle is JLs double loss strikerate seen in PATTERN BREAKER  74/1


9/1 strikerate is holding up to expectations at the moment.


I assume you might be looking at that "double loss" possibility for your MM JL : )

If we only play 5 games per day. A consistent strikerate as low as 4/1 played with 100 chips is very nice but I am dreaming, for the moment ; )  20 unit chips will do just fine.

EXACTLY! Being in too much of a hurry and too darn greedy is the undoing of too many players in this game. If someone tells me I will make a couple of units profit virtually everyday risking very little. Or I can risk thousands and might get lucky and win a nice wad. But if I don't I am going to be two or 3k down. I know which option im going with.

The strikrate is FANTASTIC AMK given the turnover and just 3 units to play a game. Anyone could try this method and not risk hardly a thing. Even if the strikerate settles at 5/1 longterm. This ones a keeper for me AMK. 

Quote from: Superman on December 22, 2012, 09:18:41 PM

Yes you could argue that point but, think of (JL + HAR) together they could be a good match for however long, if you considor his betting angle, wait until a lot has happened and bet the next thing that hasn't yet happened won't happen AT THIS POINT IN TIME considering it's a long winded method, random may not be ready to show this string at this point in time, that's all it is a hope that THAT last string of EC at exactly the same you decide to play it, you could even play it as soon as you arrive at the table, no history just place your bet, odds are the same.

The point I am making is he could go on forever hitting the odd loss along the way but not enough to take it all back, it's not the fact of HIT n RUN as nobody knows when the best time to play is, it's pure luck that he has timed it right a high percentage of the time, so maybe he is lucky to miss the bad bits, so far, but it can't only work for one person or a minority, it should be doable by others to some degree.

Superman, if you got 10 people to TRULY play like me and I mean TRULY. I believe the majority of them will garner similar results.

They have to bet on the same thing. Never wonder from the MM side of things. And maintain a positive attitude. Heres the thing. With PB no ones going to lose any real money if they follow it properly. They may not match mine or Subbys or Chauncy47s results. But they will probably break even over a 2--3 hundred game span. I've done similar. But I stayed in there long enough for it to come around.

That's why you have 3 or 4 solid methods. You don't put all your eggs in one basket. If ones underperforming. The chances are the others are doing alright. My winning streak with PB ended tonight after 41 games. In fact I had my first double loss.
But I didn't panic. I employed another method. And pulled all the loss back and ended in a small profit for the night. That's how its down. You don't run and hide as soon as things arent so rosey. Losing is part of the game. Just as winning is. Only not losing 2k in a session that's pure gambling madness. That requires huge BRs to survive. Im talking about holding 200 units and making it grow to a fortune.

You don't do that if every game you play has the entire BR on the line. That's madness as far as im concerned.

Quote from: Bally6354 on December 22, 2012, 09:06:00 PM
I was thinking about all this tonight....

Suppose a card counter has a 3% edge over the house! So the guy is likely to win $9 for every $100 he throws over the table.

Now let's say the guy is playing and is down about 2k after some pretty bad cards. Would this not be a great time for the casino to ban this player from ever playing BJ with them again. The guy is expected to win long-term but now the casino has him by the proverbials. This would be the ideal time in my opinion for the casino to execute their own 'hit and run' policy.

The same thing happens in sports betting. Trading decisions are made to terminate an account even if the player has had a few losing bets based on the players MO. This also strikes me as a kind of 'hit and run' policy to limit potential damage further down the line.

I am getting to my point.......

So the gambler who is playing a negative expectation game and who is up a certain sum of units may decide to execute his own 'hit and run' strategy just based on the fact that he has hit a nice positive swing and does not want to push his luck and face the inevitable 'gamblers ruin'. You could argue that the more times you do this could save you money in the long run.

(I don't think this is going to fly but thought I would share it anyway) 

I cannot imagine being down 2k Bally. Not even 500 units. That type of loss never occurs with a method like PB. And certainly none of the others Im using. This is why I argue so ardently about the set in mind attitudes. That this bad run of numbers is going to suddenly appear and wipe out thousands of units.

If that's the case you never had a method worth a hoot to begin with. All the people who argue about playing light martingales. Then in the same thought tell us they had a drawdown of 300 plus units today but just survived or didn't. Make no sense to me at all. They would tell me im insane to risk for example 242 units to win 1.

While they are risking their entire BR if things go pear shaped. I cannot fathom this attitude. I am risking 242 units on something that may win for years that's the difference. I don't expect to battle my way back from a 300 plus units drawdown on a regular basis. That's pure gambling. No sense of certainty there at all.

Quote from: KingsRoulette on December 22, 2012, 07:15:13 PM
                 Yeah. So far, I can see on various forums. Not even a single method posted so far on any forums hold any good.

Do you mean they lose in the longrun, or they're not grails? If you mean they're not grails agreed. If you say they ALL lose in the longrun.

I disagree. And will prove that fact.

Welcome Gordonline, they say there are two certainties in life: death and taxes. Roulette offers a third. You will never see all 37 numbers in 37 spins.

That said I've seen over 30 in as many spins more than a few times.