Quote from: Gizmotron on November 27, 2012, 07:40:18 PM
JL -" The one thing that's holding up is the expected solid hold of the follow up bet. And LIVE its always got me through periods where the strikerate dropped below break even point."

I've already proved that many double and triple loss sessions will occur in a sequence that just kills. That's including the use of hit and run. At some point you are going to have to wise up. This is nothing more than a three step Marti. Having a clever moment on when to use it actually changes nothing.   Have a much better way to select when to use it. I'll explain that in another thread.

Giz you proved nothing. You showed static simulations. What you found has never come to pass in over 6,000 games I've played.

Its not the three step marty. I could money manage the bet in many ways. Twister came up with a very clever way to money manage PB. And do away with the expensive third step. And Im going to use this to overcome dry spells in winning streaks.

What H.A.R does is give you an opportunity to extend a winning streak NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. If you play on the same track LOSS sooner than you want is CERTAIN.

When you enter the cycle randomly. OF COURSE you will still lose close together. I've never said otherwise. BUT, when youre on, youre ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. And you are going to defy the laws of probability just enough. Not by earth shattering proportions.

BUT just enough to secure longterm profit. Subby will show you all this over the next year. And whatever happens to me on BV. Now that doubts about its fairness, once playing at a higher level are rising by the day. I will prove it live TOO myself. 

Quote from: Tarantino on November 27, 2012, 07:28:11 PM
Sorry JL, been really busy with work.


I have been playing Tarantino style PB  and been playing it in reverse.... Example  ORH,ORL,OBL,OBH etc....



I have only been playing this once a day,  and results are as follows...

Tarantino Style.... Won 10   lost 0

Tarantino
Reverse style... Won 8  lost 0...

What i do now is log on to one Casino win 3 points and log off !!  Then log onto another, win 3 points and log off !!

While playing PB, and Tarantino style PB,  i have been looking at results and found a couple other systems to play along side PB...

1. Mirror Image....
Play PB as normal making sets of 3 H/L etc...
HHL-LHH now bet that HHL won't appear next.



2. Sliding Mirror Image...
3   9   6 -      17  16  33-                                21 22  6
L  L  L -      L   L    H -        Now bet              H   H  L       
R   R B -     B   R   B -      that  ORL             R   B  B    Won on second progression...
O   O E -      O  E   O -   does not appear        O   E   E   Lost, as Odd appeared...

I am not saying this will win everytime,  but playing it once u have same odds as PB as winning, i have been playing as follows...


I log on and wait for the first 3 betting opportunities , PB, Tarantino style,sliding  mirror image  or Mirror image.
I play for 3 points, i play 25,50,100.... So i can win 75 each time. I then log off, lets say Paddypower, then log onto William hill for example and play for 3 points... Same way...   

                                                          Less play...More pay !!

That would seem to be the plan Tarantino, very clever. COULD IT BEAT BV??? LOL Where are you playing it??

Quote from: Twisteruk on November 27, 2012, 07:23:46 PM
Hey everyone

Just givin a BVNZ update and Im OUT !

As soon as I increased my stakes BVNZ killed me. I didn't lose my BR but I lost a chunk of change

I've been playing my own version of PB and after checking with Bayes about odds etc I set about playing

After 80 spins or so BV dealt me a combination that has a 0.05% chance of happening or odds of 2,187/1 of happening

I have said this before, so I have only myself to blame but, for me, BV changes when you increase your stake.

It has nice things like speed and No Zero

However, now, EVERY time I increase stakes it kills me

Im not a sore loser Im just very aware it happens too often for it not to be suspect


Anyway I've taken my money from BV and am now 100% at Paddypower

Its slower and more boring but whatever happens I know it to be Pure


Like I said I have only myself to blame as I've said this before over the Years. This time Im NOT going back

mmm doesn't sound good Twister. I too have noticed that just by going from pennies to Euros its harder to win.

But I will grind on. Im still in positive numbers even though my strikerate is in negative numbers. Ill either make 400 euro out of my 200 plus by January 31st. Or die trying.

Then Ill do the same challenge on PADDYPOWER. to show the difference. 

Quote from: Gizmotron on November 27, 2012, 05:38:52 PM
How do you tell a person that their attributing meaning from randomness is so off course that reality appears far fetched? We are actually watching people discuss the quality of hit and run as if there were clues as to when that actually is beneficial. Imagine that on Tuesdays hit and run is more intuitive if you have a favorite silver dollar in the bottom of your right shoe. If you wait long enough the casino will give up its rewards, but if you wait the wrong length it won't.

No that's not it at all Giz, there are certain benchmarks that are clean cut for me with PB. Whether I play 5.30 in the morning or 5.30 in the evening makes no difference.

What true random is able to show me does. And You don't lose the first game of your day three days in a row. You just don't with PB. And I didn't. But I lost the second. BV is not giving me the strikerate it was.

When I was playing at a lower level. But im still profitting albeit at a slower pace than I want. I am currently 30/5. Or 6/1 at my new higher level. That means if I was betting at the one level 1--2--4. I would now be 5 points negative. But im currently 9 points plus. Because im responding to the losses.

The one thing that's holding up is the expected solid hold of the follow up bet. And LIVE its always got me through periods where the strikerate dropped below break even point.

But there has to be a point where longer winning streaks 10 plus resume. Such as Subby experiences on a real wheel. That definately has to come GIZ not maybe. This is what I talk of with knowing how things should breakdown.

And that's why I don't hope to win with PB. I expect to win. 

Quote from: bcboilermaker on November 27, 2012, 05:09:07 AM
hi. John


I'm just home for school.



I was betting 5,10,20 euro


and then for recover i bet 20, 40, 80




  On BV I went from not being able to lose.... bringing account from 170 euro up to 550,
Tho to be clear I was not hit and run exactly.
I was playing between 3 different RNG tables, I would play one RNG, close  it down , and then start a new game on different RNG.


two days ago, I played about 15 to 20 games and then ran into a double loss.
So I shutdown for the day, start the next day and I got a double loss on my second session.


I will probably try again and go for a pure hit and run...
because like I say I was truly pushing my luck for the amount games I was playing
but for me, It is a learning experience!

Okay B.C that explains a bit. I will see how things go over the first 200 games at my higher level. I've lost the last two first games of the day on ODD EVEN. I would not expect to lose a third time like that.


We will see later. 

Quote from: Ralph on November 26, 2012, 05:14:53 PM

I have heard that before, the casino is fair as long I am winning!

Its not about winning, its about breakdowns.


When Im done on BV. The next phase is LIVE play. Then you can all make a comparison. Subbys already doing it on PADDYPOWER.

Quote from: malcop on November 26, 2012, 03:41:54 PM
Ralph,


You may be right, but I was just stating my personal view, I feel more comfortable playing live.


malcop

My concern isn't whether the RNG is fair or not. But does it remain fair when you are risking serious money.

Even going from pennies to euros. Something feels a bit different. Im prepared to put my 200 euro on the line to find out once and for all.

There is a certain win to loss ratio that should be maintained. My experience tells me what to expect. If I don't see those things over a couple of hundred games. I know something is wrong.

While playing fot pennies everything has been as it should be. The occasional 12 plus

streak followed by two or three closer losses.


Since I moved up im running at 19/3. With the longest winning streak 6 games. that's quite alright. I get periods like that LIVE too.


But it can't or shouldnt stay like that. At some point soon I expect at least 10 wins in a


row. Amazingly when I was playing pennies. I had winning streaks of 32 and 47. So if I don't see at least a 12 or 15. in the next 100 games. Ill know something is definately wrong.

Quote from: bcboilermaker on November 26, 2012, 12:00:31 PM
Im done with betvoyager!


Two double losses in two days.
Just had a double loss on only my second game of the day.


the double losses with bad string of single losses without a recovery bet , pretty much wiped out my BR.

Bc your experience on BV and Shoguns yesterday are not doing my confidence alot of good.


Especially as I know you were both betting decent money. How much were you STAKING??

If this continues to be the pattern. After I grind my way to 400 euro. I might suggest to Superman that we change to a LIVE table I totally trust. If he wants to make the big bucks.

Quote from: Bally6354 on November 25, 2012, 05:34:05 PM
I was once watching a guy play one of these and he was shaking the machine thinking he could land the virtual ball into the pocket he wanted. (I kid you not)

OMG!
That's hilarious but also pretty sad. 

Gawd yes, I've seen similar madness Bally.

Like a Chinese guy who threatened to blow up the betting shop if he didn't get his 2,000 plus quid back.

He believed one of the cashiers had some  device under the counter, to make sure whenever he bet big he would lose. 

Quote from: shogun on November 25, 2012, 05:11:25 PM
RESULTS UPDATE FOR PATTERN BREAKER 25/11/12

TOTAL GAMES PLAYED 164

TOTAL GAMES WON 148

TOTAL GAMES LOST 16

STRIKERATE 9.25/1

DOUBLE LOSSES 1

TREBLE LOSSES ZERO

LONGEST WINNING STREAK 37



Hi Guys, these are my results for my Playtech live games. I had a run of 22 wins just before my double loss. The double loss hurt even more as i had increased my bet to recover from the first loss.
Strikerate is at 9.25/1 and i am still in profit.

Go easy on the follow up Bet Shogun. I never use more than treble stakes normally.

I know you had that nice streak of 37 wins early on aswell Shogun. So you can put together decent streaks. So when the losses come. How many are you getting together gap wise? I think some clever money management could really help to protect those nice winning runs.

Lets understand the most expensive step of the progression is the third step. Since Twister let it be known he was only betting on the 2nd and 3rd steps of the progression. I have seen some real value in doing this.

Okay you will sometimes miss winning opportunities. BUT, if youve won 22 times. Instead of giving 7 or 14 of those points back quickly. It would make sense to only give 3 or 6 back. I may employ this kind of money management on BV.

Then after a few losses go back to the three step for the next 10 games. And you may collect additional points in the meantime too.


I did an experiment on the Aphrodite table a few years ago for example. Where I only played one game a day on it for a 100 days. My strikerate was 95/5 over those hundred days. I had a winning streak of 44 for HIGH LOW at one point.

When I play 10---15 a day I can't get that strikerate. If we realize with this method less is more. and work at increasing the value of units we will go further.

Quote from: Robeenhuut on November 25, 2012, 03:09:37 PM
I don't see any relevance in  comparing winning streaks live and on BV. Shogun and Trebor apparently can not match your strike rate. Other guys apparently have better stats. How would you explain that?

That's the nature of H.A.R random entry into the cycle. But Matt come on, I am not going to get into a war with you about stats. As that's your thing. I left that on the other forum.

Besides its way too early to make comparisons. Trebor and Shogun have barely played 100 games. I have played over 6,000. There were periods of 100--150 games where I was running at 5/1 Matt.

People have to get hold of exactly what the term LONGTERM means. Because when its not all rosey for a 100 games. Alot of people have the habit of dismissing or dropping a method.

With a BUY IN of just 7 UNITS MATT. Its not meant to be big bang proof. Do you realize this? If you want something more in that league you head towards 8 ON 1 which BTW is now 585/0 And has not passed the third step in 85 games.

Another fairytale for you as you put it.

Quote from: Bally6354 on November 25, 2012, 03:04:09 PM
What's to stop an RNG casino like BV from sending you a bad string of results in advance if they see you are playing the same system every day for big stakes. Just the fact that they could (not saying they would) would be enough to put doubts in my mind.

Yes Bally, I think this has always been the thinking in alot of peoples minds regarding RNGs.

Superman and Bayes believe BV is a trustworthy RNG. And overall so far I have no reason to doubt that.

My only cocncern has been what happens when you start betting DECENT MONEY. 5 EURO up. And

what Shogun experienced today hasnt done my confidence a whole lot of good lol! Lets put it that way. 

Quote from: Trebor on November 25, 2012, 02:37:03 PM
I'm in the UK JL, so yes I could.


But, I've played on BV for ages with other methods and find it much the same as live, good and bad runs come in cycles.


Also I'm tracking only for testing purposes with 1 penny on red even when a bet would normally be called for so BV can be none the wiser even if they could be bothered.


I'll sort out my figures some time but for now can say that I'm well in profit (on paper) if I use recovery after a loss.


Trebor

Okay Trebor, yes the overall breakdown is close to Live. What differs so far is how you arrive there.

On live you tend to get LONGER gaps in general between losses. In the way Subby is experiencing it on PADDY POWER.

With BV I see two or three losses in ten games then you might win 20. Live I've never lost the first game of the day twice.

In 4 years. Here I've done it in a few months. Never seen a treble loss live. Shogun caught it today on BV. Albeit betting bigger stakes.

Live RED BLACK performs less favourably that the other two. BV RED BLACK has a 47 game winning streak.

And hasnt lost the last 16 games either. Although im not playing it, only tracking. Just some differences I've noticed between the two formats. Yet the overall strikerate is the same right now. 11/1 a piece.

Quote from: Chauncy47 on November 24, 2012, 01:11:52 PM
Great creative thought process Taratino    When you combine your kind of thinking, along with patience and discipline, winning will be the only outcome!  I can't tell you how many times patience and discpline has saved my BR in this journey for me.  I use to be one of those players who had an ego and thought he was smarter than Mr. Random.  A year and half a go I changed my approach, changed my thinking and opended my mind and started removing limitations to my thinking and since then, this game has rewarded me nicely.   My point, your amazing creative thought process will take you far ... thank you for sharing!

Yes Chauncy47, this is a clever version of the concept.

To Tarantino, where are you mate? don't be shy in keeping a running update going of this. We all want to see how its doing cheers.

Quote from: Trebor on November 25, 2012, 02:19:32 PM
Yes and a couple of the losses were due to that pesky zero   


Trebor

Yes I lost once today because of the zero on the very last spin of my first game. So I am covering that now. What I was going to say to you is, where in the world do you live? Are you not able to at least track on a live wheel ?

See how things compare. Im having one of my best periods live. And you always know that a loss is down to random. there's never any doubt.