Quote from: Gizmotron on November 17, 2012, 10:06:18 PM
What page is a description of H.A.R & smart MM on of this 12 page thread? Please

H.A.R is an abbreviation for HIT AND RUN, random entry into the cycle Gizmotron. Dis-agreed with by the majority but absolutely effective when applied to PATTERN BREAKER.

MM, Money management there are two ways to money manage PB for optimal success.

1, You place a recovery bet immediately after a losing game by trebling stakes for one game.

2, You use a three level staking plan as highlighted by SUBBY further back on this thread.

1--2--4
2--4--8-----STANDARD LEVEL
6--12--24

You always begin playing at LEVEL 2 until you win four games. You then drop down to level 1 and stay there until you lose. Immediately following a loss, you raise to level three for one game. Then drop back to level 2 and repeat the cycle.

If you lose at level 2 before you win 4 games you again raise to level 3 for one game. If you lose at level 3 you take the loss and drop back to level 2. As double losses are running at about 75/1 playing hit and run this is most effective.

By dropping back to level one after 4 wins. You are protecting your profits more effectively than if you simply remain at the same level waiting for the inevitable. And if you are riding a nice streak you just enjoy the additional profit collected.

I am playing this way on BV. And will continue until I have reached my goals in 2013.

Quote from: Gizmotron on November 17, 2012, 07:09:34 PM
I power tested Pattern Breaker. There is no way to make it work other than analyzing the conditions and placing bets that look safe to bet. For example you might be needing to bet against an HHH losing. So you would place a LLL bet during a L streak.

100 thousand sessions, 63 spins per session, American Wheel - 0/00

Results:
Wins = 84,515
Losses = 15,485
Double Losses = 2,319
Triple Losses = 342

Gizmotron,  I respect your wizardry at analysis. And Ill make no argument about your numbers. But the way we play it. Single zero wheel, H.A.R and smart MM will read a different story.  I have 6,150 played games for example. With only 7 double losses and Zero treble losses.


Just too clarify a DOUBLE LOSS is when you track all three even chances,  and lose the first two that qualify. A treble loss is when you lose H/L--O/E & R/B in the SAME SESSION.

In case you have just been highlighting double and treble losses in a continual play fashion. Regardless if its 3 High lows or something other than losing all three even chances in the same session.

The numbers im sure will be alot more favourable, when this is taken into consideration.

Quote from: TwoCatSam on November 17, 2012, 05:15:14 PM
All

I find that gambling boils down to this: I win a few bets and then spend hours digging my way out of the hole.  This is what would happen with PB if you lost.  You lose seven and have to win the next seven to get even.  Lose again during the recession and you will have to spend longer at the table to get even.

Not picking on PB.  The G.U.T. is the same.  Every system I ever played is the same.

I guess I'm used to continued success.  With a guitar, if you learn it you learn it.  It doesn't go away.

In my business, when I made money it was mine.  Very slim chance of losing it.  Very tiny!

With gambling, you win six units and go into the hole and spend two days trying to get back to where you are +6.  I have come to realize this is the nature of the beast.

Anyone care to comment?

Sam

Sam regarding PB, I like to think of it as two steps forward and one step backwards. You see what happened  to Subby at the start of the SPERAMUS QUEST. He won 7 then lost one. Now at last post he has won 12 straight. And his not even using a recovery bet.


The beauty of H.A.R is you will at some point ride a winning streak that puts you in a nice place. This is how it will work. Over the next 6 months Subby will see it all. If he gets a streak like I've had playing less than 6 games a day.

He will move beyond negative figures PERMANENTLY. And you will all start to see PBs value.

Quote from: bcboilermaker on November 17, 2012, 03:06:31 PM
these are basically my staking plan is US dollars. playing only against E/O H/L  playing against whatever group forms first


round one ..... 2,4,8 if i win game is done


round two ..... 40,80,160 I bet this round only after a loss on round one


I use two separate BR, for each round.

Bcboilermaker GREAT to see you overhere. Please start posting your results overhere  25/1 is amazing but how many games have you played to date?? Wow that's quite a step up. I personaly don't go that heavy. DOUBLE LOSSES happen about 75/1 in my experience. So I stake


2--4--8 on step one, and 6--12--24 on the follow up bet. The idea is to recover a big portion of the loss. The strikerate takes care of the rest.

Im using a three level staking plan as posted by Subby above. Good bet selection, money management and H.A.R...You are going to profit for sure.

Quote from: Trebor on November 17, 2012, 01:16:33 PM
@ Subby & JL,

I think we are all doing slightly different but I don't think it should make much difference.

I'm playing all three EC's at the same time but surely each is an independent trial.

Roughly 3 sessions a day hours apart fulfils the HAR requirement I would think.

I'm trying to carry out a proper test but I'm already beginning to wonder that if it doesn't win for me I'll be told "but you didn't play it correctly"

Trebor

Trebor all Subby and me are saying is less is often more. I too play 10--15 games a day. And my strikerate hasnt been above 10/1 for over a year. When I played just 5 games a day. My strikerate never went below 12/1. Just something to think about that's all.

As Subby said. Bankroll allowing you could win as much or more from 5 games a day as you do for 9. But gain more overall because of a better strikerate.

Quote from: topcat888 on November 17, 2012, 12:51:54 PM
I understand, so basically ducking and diving..! :-)  However, if for example I wanted to play at one live wheel only, in that case what would you consider a safe break from the table..?

You could play all three even chances Pilot style. Take a break and come back and play another three and that's your lot. As subby said when I played less per day I won more.



I don't know why but that's how it worked out...

Quote from: subby on November 17, 2012, 11:16:52 AM
An honest opinion of mine...if I may?

If that is 1 weeks games i.e. 7 days...then I think 10 games a day is slightly pushing it.  To get win streaks above 7:1 play less and build that BR up to a higher level before using higher unit stakes for less games. You can still get the same amount of money but you play less and have longer win streaks to bring the BR growth above the 7:1 ratio you have now.

Perhaps consider making a monthly plan?

120 games a month @ 4 games a day. A game is either a 1 unit win or a total loss. Going on a win loss ratio of 1:10/11 (from experience this isn't too far off the right one for the amount of games played each month) you can therefore assume you will get 110 wins and 10 losses. That is total loss of 70 from the units won...110...gives you 40 units profit for the month.

40 units for the Speramus trials is 40x£2= £80....

Imagine you did this religiously 4 games a day for a month....for 6 months.

That is £480 PLUS then add your starting bankroll and you're over £500.

That 500 gives you the cushion to then bet larger chip values...NOT larger amounts of chips...important distinction there! You could be betting £5 chips then

if you take the 40 units won each month as shown above....but this time multiply it by £5 value....that's £200 grinded out month in ...month out.

Personally, for me, the moral of the Pattern Breaker tale is ......LESS(games)...IS MORE (money) 

LONG term view of the game here folks...LONG TERM

I couldnt have said it any better Subby, lets keep in mind Trebor is playing an RNG at BV. Now I play  this same RNG and I believe its fair. But while playing PATTERN BREAKER I've noticed a slight difference in win loss patterns to what live gives me.


It can produce long winning streaks 40 plus. Then 2 or 3 losses relatively close together. I play all three even chances. But stop if the first two win. Also I play a recovery bet after a loss. So even if I was only getting 6/1 with this method. I will still profit



LONGTERM, its all about the LONGTERM. Those who stay with this method. for over a year. Will see its value.

Quote from: Trebor on November 17, 2012, 08:38:24 AM
Sorry JL I see now. I was tired and just back from a night out if you know what I mean.

I'm playing BV single zero but as at the moment it's only pennies I take the simple expedient of "moving the wheel" by betting a single EC.  The total goes up and down a bit but I'm only interested in the result of the bets made on the triggers.

If I was betting larger amounts on BV single zero I would still use penny bets on the even chance to move on as it's simple.

Trebor

Okay thanks, yes I've struggled with that as I have to reach a certain target by the end of the year. Once im betting Euros it won't matter anymore. Cheers...

Quote from: Trebor on November 16, 2012, 11:51:17 PM
You've lost me there. What moving wheel? I'm playing on BV.


1st post in this topic, rules 1 to 4. Everything else is down as "options".


Trebor


PS I'm off to bed now

I mean you have to bet to make the wheel move, Night.

Quote from: Trebor on November 16, 2012, 11:21:58 PM
I see.


But at the moment I'm just carrying out a personal test. I always understood that it's claimed that PB would win long term with the basic bet. Are you now saying that it won't without this money management?


Trebor

Im saying to build up your confidence and get you in front especially playing BV. How are you dealing with moving the wheel Trebor? When you Win 15--20 games in a row a few times you pull in front. But PATTERN BREAKER played H.A.R with that MM system will be a sure winner longterm.

Quote from: Trebor on November 16, 2012, 09:06:51 PM
Update as of now.


Total games played  72


Total games won      63


Total games lost        9


Strike rate                 7/1


Double losses            0


Treble losses             0


Longest winning streak    19




Yes, I've clawed my way back to break even in only one week.


Onwards and upwards.


Trebor

Trebor you should consider using my three level staking plan. To get you into profit faster and keep you there. So

even if your strikerate doesn't go to double figures overall you will still show a longterm profit.

Quote from: subby on November 16, 2012, 08:08:13 PM
.....aye that's pretty much it in a nutshell 

I play live with Speramus groups rules so it's only a max of 4 units a day on live wheel. Trying for more than 4 units in one day is too much of my time so I play it when I can. With the grinding results the BR will grow solidly. By Easter I'm hoping it'll be up near £800 with the solid BR in place to bet higher chips. It'll take me longer than playing 20 games a day like John, but by playing so infrequently I'm expecting to get a few decent win streaks going to grind out steady single unit wins until the BR is well up there.

Yes Subby, im thinking of going back to 5 games a day for bigger stakes. When I began PATTERN BREAKER 4 years

ago. I only played HIGH LOW. For 5 games a day.

Three times in the first 18 months I broke the 100 barrier in winning streaks. Since I have been playing 15---20 a day. I've never ever been past 40 live.

So there's definately something to this...

Quote from: Koolkat on November 16, 2012, 07:43:17 PM
Not sure if this is the right place to post but I must say this forum is a breath of fresh air compared to Roulette CC, For the past 3 days I have tried to log out of Roulette CC it won't allow me!!
Anyway I feel much  more comfortable here as I feel I am amongst friends that would only advise and not criticise. Thank you SUBBY for giving me this Opportunity   You never know I may get the guts to come up with a system and post. 

Welcome Koolkat. Wow we got all the cats in the same alley now TWOCATSAM, TOPCAT & KOOLKAT, 

Quote from: topcat888 on November 16, 2012, 07:33:51 PM
excellent and how about playing live wheel, how many would you leave between each game..??

Topcat heres the thing that's mis-understood about H.A.R Its not about how much you play. Its about getting off the track you are on.

Whenever someone anyone starts playing a game especially on a live wheel. You start your own adventure journey,. But
unless

you get off the track quickly you are likely to hit a loss sooner than later, you might have a whole string of Bankroll

destroying losses waiting. But H.A.R you can only lose THE ONCE.. All the maths boys will never agree with this theory.

But time has shown it to be true for me..


So what I would do live in a real B&M casino is play three games on three different tables. BREAK THE CYCLE. Online live I will also swap between tables or airball.


What you are saying to random is you want my money, show me the loss right NOW. Not three games later. And by doing

this you get an edge. Not a great big one. But big enough to turn an overall profit.

.

Quote from: Bayes on November 16, 2012, 06:27:58 PM
John,

They're the same ones I uploaded ages ago to the cc forum. I got them from here, and did check with the owner that they're actuals and not from an RNG. 

Okay very nice Bayes. They will come in useful for testing new ideas.