QuoteWhat i understand from all this,.... and all roulette-experts here (amazing)

Ways to win roulette:

(1) Betselection (isn't mechanical)
(2) Progression (none that work, you have to be flexible and use your own judgement when to increase or fall back to base unit)
(3) Patterns (forget it, random constantly changes)
(4) W/L-patterns (you could count wins/losses in the last x spins depending on what you are following)

Quoteignatus, Old Sport, I'll get right on it!

LOL Sam, I somehow don't think ignatus is at this level of the game yet but he seems to be learning that mechanical systems/methods do not work long term.

Sounds about right to me Sam although I don't think I've been 'lucky' for 8 months so watching the marquee and making educated guesses has served me well, Bayes has been playing for a long time too although different to what I do but similar in the MM department, now Drazen is playing the same(ish) as Bayes and reporting good results too, so that's 3 that are constantly winning their sessions.

QuoteThere is no money management procedure that will win.

I totaly agree with this Sam, my reasoning is this, we know there's no 'mechanical' method/system that can win every time we use it as it relies on set actions random is none mechanical, its different all the time, so how can we expect to use a mechanical progression? simple answer, we can't. This is and will remain a bone of contention across the gamblers world as 99% are too lazy to think/concentrate they just want to follow a set route --- a mechanical route --- maybe that gives them a perfect reason when they loose and they don't have to blame themselves, I don't know but the sooner they stop chasing anything mechanical and work with random the sooner they should stop losing.

Drazen is one person others should look up to, for about 3 months he has been PM'ing both myself and Bayes, when I last saw Bayes we talked about him becoming an internet stalker as we kept getting PM's from him LOL, I don't know how much Bayes replied to him but I know I replied a lot to him, look where he is now, he seems to have worked it out and is getting ahead, his last few posts seem to say he is well pleased with himself for working hard at it, he also stated, when asked, it is difficult to explain, I've said the exact same, so has Bayes, in essence you either see it or you don't.

QuoteWhy does a number get hot?  Why does a number sleep for 200 spins?  Why is it when a sleeper awakens, it hits more than it should--as if to say, "Dang!!  I've got the catch the pack!"?

I think on a real wheel this is just coincidence, some will say it isn't (leave them to their fantasy of wanting to believe) but think for yourself on a real live roulette wheel

A) there is nothing that 'could' be telling it to catch up
B) the wheel has no memory so it doesn't know what it's already done

RNG on the other hand is a computer program that is 'told' to do something, it is also verified by governing bodies, how? we will never know but an RNG has to perform properly to be allowed so if an RNG number sleeps for 600+ spins the chances are high it will hit a few times after the initial wake up, I've seen it, you've seen it and others have too.

Note: any reference I make to RNG is purely betvoyager as that is the only RNG we can trust as they generate the numbers before you play, not while you play.

QuoteJust ramblin'.............

Yeah .............. me too

QuoteLast thing you said you don't use statistics in your play anymore if I am not wrong?

Correct, I used to track it all but didn't see any noticable advantage so now I just jump in after spin 1.

QuoteYou just play FTL or DBL and try to "read" on your own personal judgment what is happening?

FTL only, never played DBL, I just go with the flow now.

QuoteMay I ask why? Are deviations as BS a fallacy?

Like I said, I used to build trackers and wait for deviations etc, but the losses would always come so to my mind MM was/is key to survival. Now I just follow the colour and use my judgement to decide on bet sizes if I am behind, like I said in all the PM's to you if the marquee is full of chops I bet small, if I 'think' the series are happening I increase the bet sizes to recover if it goes all choppy again I note the deficiet and wait until I 'think' it looks better.

QuoteWell Bayes is telling it is better to rely on deviation after some point then not.. And for now it seems to me it is so of course

If it works for you then keep going that way, I didn't see any noticable advantage to it. I've played from spin 2 now for over 7 months and probably made around 20 thousand units so it appears to work my way too.

I've stopped playing again for a bit now as I was getting bored, found myself watching dozens hitting 4 or 5 times then chucking units on 2 dozens the odd time, that's my signal to stop for a while LOL Bayes knows how I get sometimes. Why give it all back AGAIN.

QuoteI would say I play it same all the time in terms of the way I increase the bets. But it is different when I cut stakes or taking few steps in back on higher chip size. If I am at higher chip size I will go back as soon as possible onto first previous level, but if not so high I take it like that until new plus

Yup it's good to cut back and wait sometimes, its difficult to do as we want to win and be ahead when the hole is deep, its tempting to bet high after 3 or 4 losses I know but its better to win a few flat betting first I find then use those winnings on the bigger bet decreasing each time, I know I have written off a few 40 unit holes already and started from scratch, makes a long session but is much safer, patience and discipline pays off.

QuoteWell mate explanation is not simple and straight as you would probably like to hear but I ll try

LOL, you sound like me now buddy

QuoteMM and progressions are also very important subject in this. Still without good MM it isn't guaranteed you will win in the end

Ah the achillies heel, do you play the same MM over and over or does it depend on what you see/think/feel is best for that specific moment, I still don't do the same thing over and over, I did find I was doing something over and over but depending on the losses I was juggling it a bit so it ended up different each time a bad session was forming.

Anyway, very glad to see you finally cracked it ..... so far anyway, if you can do it each day for a month or two then you have cracked it, well done, all those PM's seem to have worked for you eventually, nice news mate

QuoteJust doubled 25$ with 0.10 chip and highest bet was 1$

Looking good Drazen, let it continue mate

OK with all the posts from PatternAnalys I have decided to close the challenge as the target was last set at Christmas AT THE EARLIEST, well, as we all know JL has lost a couple of hundred pounds already and the last £300 hasn't been improved by much, £11 currently, JL also seems to have lost interest in playing as he hasn't played ONE game in the last month, hence my decision to end the challenge today.

So, as JL promised me riches since last year (2012) and it hasn't happened, not that I ever thought it would NOR did I setup the challenge to reap the rewards as I didn't think there would be any, I setup the challenge purely to prove

A) the methods don't work
B) hit & run doesn't work

As this hasn't been proved either way I can't be @rsed going on anymore with it.

JL also promised I would get £200 NO MATTER what the outcome (please would anyone who has been following, confirm this was promised) JL stressed I shouldn't just take the £200 and run, I should hang on, and on, and on, and on (you get the picture) now it's until atleast Christmas, so I am out, the balance was £311 I have taken my £200 out and left £111 for him to play or lose as I am convinced he would lose the lot at some point and all this monitoring would be for nothing so that's it, I'm out.

Should JL continue with the money that's there and make his millions, I hereby denounce any claim on any of it, if it needs withdrawing it will go into my Skrill account and I will send it all to him, minus any admin fees if there are any. If he is saddened by my withdrawal from the challenge that's too bad, if he wants the remaining £111 he's welcome to it he must just ask for it. Or he could make his millions and prove me wrong.

QuoteAsk Superman........

Nah don't bother, Bing bell AKA (Skakus/Bombus) has already made a good statement.

Forget it, these methods do NOT work long term, at some point you WILL lose the bank or atleast the majority of it, JL has found this out, why do you think he has vanished.

In the other thread you asked how long, well it's been about 2 months since he last attempted anything, if he was that sure of his methods he would be doing it every day, he's not so that tells us something.

He said I would be well in the money by the middle of the year, last response from him he said give him until Christmas, wow as he struggles the goal posts move too.

QuoteCalm...calm...calm down, Al.

Exactly why he should be ignored: arrogant, rude and thinks he's above everyone else.

Ignore him people, he never acknowledges or thanks any contribution.

For the life of me I cannot understand why any of you are entertaining Alababa, he has the grail already and just wants someone else to do his work for him. Everyone who replies here gets the same thrown at them from him, why bother?

@ Drazen, Sputnik and Razor, glad everyone seems to understand now, sorry I can't explain fully what I do each session, if I could it would be coded into a bot, but each session is different I never know what is going to happen until it actually happens, I can only work with what is being sent to me, a few things I have noticed over the time I have been doing it is

Evenings seem to be harder (UK time) why? no idea but they seem to have tougher lengthy losses which makes the session much longer, maybe I am too tired and can't work with what's going on, I don't know, my easiest sessions are at 7:30 am ish, secondly, jury still out, but european roulette is NOT pushing me too hard, yet! NZ would give me a tough time very often, I would say 40% of the time, understanding programming gives me the idea that as the RNG has to select from 36 option for NZ or 37 for european there appears to be some sort of difference in what it chooses to do, why? no bloody idea but they do appear different.

I get up at 7 have breakfast, play roulette to get my session done then I play poker at PKR, I play practice tables as I just enjoy kicking a$$es of the TOUGH ALL in type muppets you get on the free chip tables, again online poker is RNG generated knowing what cards to play and when to play them is paramount, I play the 6 seaters and aim to be at the worst 2nd place, the idiots you find there are difficult opponents as they take silly risks and win often on those stupid risks which make sit even more challenging. For anyone interested to see how my track record looks go to http://www.sharkscope.com/ and put my player name in nf3nn4 to see my graph, I play purely for enjoyment and to pass an hour before work.

Poker is a lot like roulette, for example if you are dealt 2 2's the best way for these to win the round is if you hit a trip on the flop, and if you are on blinds and everyone has checked other wise if someone raises I would normally fold, but lets say all check and you see the flop, no 2's land and someone rasies, I would fold, lets say you get 3 or 4 low pair hands and manage to limp in to the flop, if you've gone 3 or 4 times with alow pair and none have tripled up, the next low pair I get I would go in IF someone raises purely because you haven't hit a trip for X hands, it works quite often, you just need to keep a mental count of what's gone before, you can beat some very good hands with a low pair hitting a trip, again its all for fun only downside is, if you intend on winning the table it can take an hour or more, 90% of poker players are impatient thus wasting too much chips on sh1tty hands.

A bot from start to finish

Main part of the bot is to read the number spun
It can then store (add that result to an array) you can program the bot to store as many or as little of the last spun number/s, this depends on what you do next.

EG if you were being stupid and waiting for 24 reds/blacks you would keep an array with a size of 24 and do the following

if arraysearch(my_main_array,for what=red) not found then
do this=bet red
elseif arraysearch(my_main_array,for what=black) not found
do this=bet black
else
keep waiting and check after each spin

The way I have my bits setup is like this, for any customer I send a setup tool which just spins the game reading an AREA for the last spun result, it spins and spins UNTIL it has either 36 on NO ZERO or 37 numbers on european roulette, when it has seen all of the numbers it asks the user to assign a number to each snapshot it took, this all gets written to an ini file like this

3655294628=6
1100174932=4
4284120404=13
474124401=35
3019337551=17
3067779567=20
1365523777=27

The long numbers are the actual checksum of the rectanglular area the number is printed in, the =17 is that that checksum value is number 17 so when the bot plays it gets a checksum of THAT area and checks the ini file for what that checksum actually is number wise.

that's the basic function for the bot itself, I also have what I call a whatbet file, this file can be changed to any method/system we can come upw ith so that's the onyl file I ever need to change for a new bot, in total I have 4 files MAIN, GETNUMBER, BETLOCATIONS and WHATBET all caled via #include BETLOCATIONS holds all the x,y coordinates of each bet location for the table in question, as I said before, the main file does all the main bits n bobs, it finds/locates the game window, gets its sizes/coordiantes on the screen and sets it active before the bot actually does anything.

Hope that helps

@ Sam, No problem Sam, I was a bit dissapointed with the replies so decided to show an up to date statement so my challenger could actually see that still to this day I play and beat the RNG each time. And as you can see I am now going against worst odds in the european wheel, NZ, been there done that, got bored.

@ Drazen, to cover a few of your posts, yes I still play for pennies/cents whatever, a unit is a unit mate, no I am NOT scared of losing but I would be if I was playing euros, I would probably also play much differently and as I am only playing for fun, to prove to myself I can continually win each session as and when I decide to play one, again, a unit is a unit, I don't let greed get in the way.

I used to try everything in a bot, I used to track with a tracker, I used to play for SD etc etc etc, none of those methods/systems/styles of play were any better than any other so over time I have ended up playing like I do, what more can I say.

Quote@ Superman I never thought even for a sec that you are lying.
I respet you and as I said I consider you as a great roulette researcher and I also consider you as a sirious person.
All I said is that you have taken the wrong path.
You always KNEW that playing continiously or playing hit and run are resulting the same...now what change your mind..I really don t know

Thanks for that, if you think my changing tact to one where I win every session is the wrong path then that's weird mate. Yes botted strict methods playing continually always end the same way, big loss/es, maybe what I've just said to Drazen will make you understand.

QuoteAgain, what is the "Holy Grail"?

I think some people think its something that can be explained perfectly so everyone can have it, if that was the case it would make history as would roulette be assigned to history and ended then and there. My opinion is if you can win each session (and prove it with screen shots when needed) then you have a style that suits the outcomes, I wouldn't say I have a grail as I still gat caught out every now and then with bad runs/decisions and as I have said before, sometimes I can be 10 15 units down and just reset to 1 unit and take much longer to win the session, chasing creates a different mindset its best to forget the loss and start again.

QuoteIf you say that every session that you played was a winner , then playing continiously is the same

OK my last respinse to this nonsense is, Razor you are wrong, heres a quick screenshot of my current sessions at BV, and the last week has been against the european table not NZ.

No red lines as you will see, enjoy and believe what you want mate.

Oh well, I aint going to post anymore about how I play, Drazen has sent me plenty of PM's and I have tried to explain to him the best I can, obviousley because he just can't grasp it I am lying, Razor, I don't give a flying f*^k what you think, yes I have been battling the RNG for many years the fact that what I now do can't be botted or explained in "roulette for dummies" makes me a bu11shitter, that's your perogative I suppose.

As Gizmo says, to explain something so straight forward is complicated and near impossible when the audience is 'hoping' for an ABC/123 explanation which isn't there.

@ Razor, spot on about albalaha that's all he's after, I have him on ignore for the past few months already others should do the same, heck, ignore me too.

QuoteHere are several people who say they have a system that works. For example Superman, Albalaha, Gizmotron, Johnlegend and sorry if I forget anyone.

No system works long term so there's probably a few people you can cross off your list. I don't have a system, a system is mechanical in my opinion so is a method, a way of play is different.

QuoteFirst you should not believe that they have winning methods.
This is internet and any one can pretend and lie.

Very true.

QuoteThere is a reason why there does not exist winning systems public on internet, they don't exist.
Its about you, not a system, strategy or method.

Psychological you know when to quit and stay ahead and handle loses, then you might have a positive net gain in the end ...
MM is more important then choose of method, my opinion.

Exactly, if YOU can't read/understand the current situation in front of you and make good decisions as to when, where and how much to risk (that's all you are doing, guessing and risking) then YOU need to study/learn/work harder until you get it right more often.

I laugh now when I read what players say sometimes, "I saw Number 21 hit 5 times so I bet on it" as this event has already happened there's no reason at all that that specific number is guaranteed to hit again, sometimes it will but most often it won't

QuoteCommon sense can make you a winner with out searching for a super method that not exist

True again, YOU can only do it yourself, I doubt it could be taught, you either see it or you don't.

QuoteThe method that one day is gold but copper next day

That covers everything ever written on the internet doesn't it? as none of them work long term.

QuoteIf there is a method that is gold every day I do not think anyone in their right mind who wants to give away for free.

I, without bragging, would say I am lucky enough to have this gold every day as I haven't lost a session in 6 months now, I've explained the best I can as to what I do but nobody is prepared to learn, they want it written down in ABC steps which I guess is human nature, that's why we will always have forums for gamblers jumping from one method to the next.