Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 20, 2014, 12:38:15 PM
Hi Atlantis, and LAW,
I have a 'million dollar' question to ask both of u.

In an average 100spins, how many   "LOSE" hit, and "WIN" hit???

If in 100spins , averages, 'WIN' hit= 67 times, and 'LOSE' hit =33 times, then your BETSELECTION is very good!

A few simple progression will make them best system.


Thanks in advance!

Hey Beat,




It is difficult to find a precise average given the rare event of repeating dozens, but I would say roughly 2 wins/1 loss (mathematically) or maybe even 1win/1loss worst case scenario (keep in mind we are losing 2 to l1 with bets, but Labby handles this nicely). This has been my only concern with the system, is that I can't see what would happen over 10,000 spins (it would take 2100 spins just to double 300 unit bankroll)

Quote from: Atlantis on July 20, 2014, 11:07:26 AM
Hi theLaw and Albalaha,

Similar to your 2 dozen bet idea - this is kinda the opposite from one of Gizmotron posts:

Well theLaw, if u think is good then I wonder how THIS would pan out using your Labby idea??

Regards,
A.

Hey Atlantis,


I like the idea, but I would be very concerned about a 4-step Martingale.


As for using the Labby, it might be a good fit. I was looking for something that was a more rare occurrence (remember that a Labby does not clear after just 1 win, so cumulative wins can kill it dead). Having said that, if we put a stop-loss in place, it may win fast enough to work long term.


Thanks!

Quote from: Albalaha on July 20, 2014, 06:02:11 AM
@the Law
               It may look repetitive but I would still like to add two things.
1. "session from hell" has to come for whatever bet you can think of. If you haven't seen that, it is only lack of experience and they can be of such bad degree that no progression can handle them.


2. Harsh progressions like martingale, labby and fibonacci  very soon rush you to either an unplayable bet or table limit. Believe me, all forms of them are disastrous. If you want to be a pro, think of mild progressions. Kattila has posted many sensible money managements which can be referred and followed.

I'll take a look at Kattila's progressions and see if there is anything better - Thanks!

Sample Game (Full with Labby explanation)


34,22,05,12,28,33,25,14,11,11,22


Labby (in red)


l
l
l
34-no bet
22-no bet
05-no bet
12-trigger bet (1 unit on dozen 2/3=total 2 unit)
28-win (+1)(now cross out first line of Labby)
l
l
33-trigger bet (1 unit on dozen 1/2 = total 2 unit)
25-loss (so add 2 units to Labby)
ll
ll
14-no bet
11-no bet
11-trigger bet (2 units on 2/3 = 4 units)
22-win (+2)
ll
................


So now the Labby is down to a single line of (ll), which means that the next bet will be 2 units (x2 dozens=4 units)


Keep in mind that this Labby come go up to 10 units per line x 30 lines if necessary, so feel free to add lines for anything over 10 units per line.


                                                                                                            -theLaw

Dozen Breaker

This is a new system that I am currently testing out with excellent results so far.Trigger : wait for one dozen to repeat one time, and then bet on it not repeating a second time (only one bet-next bet is triggered by another dozen repeating)

Concept : Most dozens only repeat one time, so we take advantage of that with appropriate betting+progression

Progression : Standard 3-line Labby (bet is indicated by first line and losses are added from the last line up across all available lines*)

*remember to add betx2 units for every loss as you will be betting on 2 dozens each time

Sample Game : Spins : 18,32,08,12,22,18,36,05

18     no bet
32     no bet
08     no bet
12     Trigger - first bet next spin = 1 unit on dozens 2 and 3
22     Win = 1 unit
18     Trigger - next bet next spin = 1 unit on dozens 1 and 3
36     Win = 1 unit
05     no bet

The power of this system is that you can have a very large number of losses close together and still recover easily using the 3-line Labby which happens over 100s of spins thus giving us a more even distribution of w/L.

Bankroll : $300/1 unit bets

Max Bet : $10 ($20) - then just add lines (only had to do this once adding 1 line. Keep in mind that you could add 27 lines with this bankroll)

Average win : 1 unit / 7 spins (a bit of a grind)

If anyone has a "worst case scenario" sequence, I will be happy to test the system against it. The main problem that I'm running into, is that I can't seem to find any significant deviations over 1000s of spins (good news/bad news) due to the large numbers of spins over which the bets are selected.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                  -TheLaw

Final Update : Failure : Labby 33 (bet every other spin)

After reviewing the spins, I found an error in the final few bets of the worst sequence (game #7) that brought the total draw-down to over $5000 busting both the bankroll and table limit. Although my error only effected the last couple of spins, and thus did not effect the outcome of the other games, it still indicates an overall failure of the system.

I subsequently tried to adjust the betting to insure against Martingale by capping bets at $100 and adding lines after each loss, but found this to ultimately be a losing strategy, as more and more lines meant imminent failure.

Thanks to Maestro, Albalaha, and GLC for their help with this system - Much appreciated!!!

Please note that I am making some adjustments to the system, so please hold off on any further comments until I post the new information (should be up in 24hrs) - Thanks!

Quote from: Albalaha on July 17, 2014, 05:54:18 AM
@ Law,
        Incredible stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                Can someone please show this step by step, preferably in an excel sheet? The given session was the worst EC case that I got in a million spin analysis that lasts for 1600 spins.  Beating this successfully means we can beat the worst stretch of an EC that should come in a million spin (little worse is possible too but this one was standard example of long lasting and irritating variance). I can't understand as explained or exhibited in the text file but it is serious.
                      If someone does this step by step, I will put another similar session. If that gets beaten too, with the same methodology, we need a tracker of this way of playing.
              Great job after a long time. I hope calculations have no fault.

Hey Albalaha,


I'll do a bet-by-bet breakdown of the worst sequence (dd-745) when I get a chance in the next 48hrs.


The txt file just show 11 games one after another using the standard 33-line Labby, with the beginning and end of each game with details.


The 33-line Labby is simple :


-write out 33 lines
-next bet is always just the first line (not a combination of lines)
-always add losses to all lines starting with the last line
-only bet every other spin


That's it!


From this test, it appears that there may be a maximum draw-down that is possible mathematically with over 150 spins and a large enough Labby.


The worst sequence, for instance, had another 4 losses after reaching a $159 bet (hence the large draw-down).

Quote from: Albalaha on July 16, 2014, 06:00:29 AM
@Law,
       Will your 65 step labby or 50 step labby (pick any one you like) clear entire 1600 spins with a net win?


@ Maestro,
            Same question for your suggested progression.




We may reverse engineer any given/known session and create a progression that can beat it but that is not workable in random sessions.
           If any of your progression beats this 1600 spins entirely, I can give another similar case and if they win both, everybody will admire that.

1600 Spins challenge completed (note that I just started each new game with next spin-if someone would like to play the opposite w/l record, be my guest)




33 Standard Labby with 1/2 modification (just bet every other spin) beats #1512 Spins (stopped due to #200 spins needed for another game)


Bankroll : $1000


Win total : +550 units


Largest Bet : -$795


Max Draw-down : -$745


***note that I played this as a standard Labby as described in earlier posts with 1/2 mod - so all Martingale scenarios were played through without adjustments (adding lines)-hence the massive bet and dd from game #7***


Results :


#142----+ 50 units win end of game #2 ( game ended first starting with 2nd spin)


#189----+ 50 units win end of game #1 (starting with bet #1 and then every other spin)


#346----+50 units win end of game #3 - largest bet = $98 - dd=-$29


#505----+50 units win - end of game #4 - lb=$123 - dd=-$31


#640---+50 units win - end of game #5 - lb=$180 - dd=-$150


#817---+50 units win - end of game #6 - lb=$129 - dd=-$202


#948---+50 units win - end of game #7 - lb=$795 - dd=-$745


#1099---+50 units win - end of game #8 - lb=$15 - dd=-$16


#1224---+50 units win - end of game #9 - lb=$82 - dd= (less than 10)


#1351---+50 units win - end of game #10 - lb=$18 - dd=-(less than 10)


#1512---+50 units win - end of game #11 - lb=$50 - dd=--$30---last game (200 spins needed for game)


**spin results file attached

Quote from: Rolex-Watch on July 16, 2014, 05:21:21 AM
This 50-line Labby may win against every nightmare run thus far, but at what cost?  What is the draw-down (how deep are you in for), largest required bet?

One time I was playing this, trigger occurred and I was winning every bet placed, then some guy sitting next to me, say's look at that.  The prick of a dealer had only spun 4 zero's in 5 spins, he was expecting me to bet the columns / dozens and was getting miffed me winning.

The rare event bets may be a good strategy long term to win with a low draw-down. I'm stuck on this Labby idea at the moment, simply because of the sequences that it can withstand. A $210 draw-down for one of the worst runs ever recorded (65% losses) is pretty impressive.


If we're stuck with rare events betting to win, then that's fine by me. I'm just seeing how close I can get to a solution before this thing goes tits-up

Quote from: Albalaha on July 16, 2014, 04:28:30 AM
@Law

Buddy, if you re-configure the solution as per the problem, anything can be beaten but there has to be a general strategy to play because we can't guess the kind of variance that we may get in a coming session.
          Plus, if your strategy wins in 1600 bets somewhere, try to bet same way the entire 1600 spins. If it wins even 1 unit finally, it is worth re-looking.


@Maestro,
   You said:


Would you mind showing this on the given data, for the sake of clarity?

Albalaha,

This is not changing the betting pattern to suit the results, as that would clearly do none of us any good. I simply cut the system in half (Labby included) and caught a more usable average (keep in mind we are talking about up to 200 spins). Trying a larger or smaller Labby must work consistently on all testing sequences, not just one to be effective. I usually try to post results as they become available.

Maestro was very clear in his explanation - simply bet every other spin-that's it; nothing more.

minor correction for bets starting with #1 :Max Draw-down : -156Largest Bet : +216Win : +50 at spin #189 (not 188 as before)Here are the percentages :#1 : 33wins/62 losses (35%/65%)#2 : 33wins/37 losses (47%/53%)

Quote from: maestro on July 15, 2014, 11:35:32 PM
i don't just from start...spin 1 i bet so spin 2 no bet pin 3 bet spin 4 and so on as i wrote earlier

Thanks Maestro!


Update - Modified Labby


Just bet every other spin using a standard 33-line Labby


Results :


#1 Bet then every other

Win : +50 units @ spin 188
Max Draw-down : -210 units
Largest bet : $165 (last bet)

#2 - then bet every other :


Win : +50 units @ spin 142
Max Draw-down : -30 units (yes-you read that right-30)
Largest bet : $26 (last bet)

[/size]
[/size]Once again, Thanks to Maestro for for the great modification!!!

Quote from: maestro on July 15, 2014, 11:22:28 PM
no...you get labby and start bet spin 1, bet spin2 , spin 3 no bet, bet spin 4    ,no bet spin 5,6,7, bet spin 8,no bet 9,10,11,12,13,14,15 , bet spin 16,then start count again as after 16th spin is spin 17 so for your count spin 17 will be spin 1,spin18 will be spin 2 and so on...

I'm confused - how are you choosing which spins to bet? (also, please note that I am playing a 65 line Labby betting from the first line, and adding losses across all lines available)

Quote from: maestro on July 15, 2014, 11:03:46 PM
what's the big deal ....given session by alabala,what you do just bet spin 1,2,4,8,16 when you go to spin 16 start count again 1,2,4,8,16 and so on ... till the end....you should get "w"235/"l"265 it should work for any sequence

I'm confused - are you suggesting a limited Martingale with the result being a final loss of 30 units???


I thought that we were trying to win at Roulette