Quote from: Albalaha on July 15, 2014, 04:14:53 PM



No pushing progression can sustain till the variance can drag us. If it gets possible, playing roulette will become a fearless job.

Update!!!The sequence that was previously a bust, has been beaten with a 65-Line Labby. Here are the results:

Win : +50 units @ spin 167

Max Draw-down : -600 units (worst I've seen by far)

Largest bet : $252 (last bet)

W/L Breakdown : 103 losses / 64 wins (62% loss/38% win)

Notes : Here are the next 33 spins for reference (i've also attached a text file with the full sequence) :LWWWWLLWLLWLWLWWLLLLWWLWWWWWLWWLLL

-as you can see, there is still an enormous amount of wiggle room for the betting.

the Labby is still alive!!!

Quote from: Albalaha on July 15, 2014, 12:41:46 PM
Sure,
          I am giving the L/W of this in a text file here.

Update : Labby failed at bet #126 of the sequence provided  - Thanks for your help-much appreciated!!!

Quote from: Albalaha on July 15, 2014, 08:16:03 AM
@Law


       Please try to do this real data with worst "High" EC bet over 1600 spins. If your any progression wins over this data without getting too deep in drawdown, it is really worth focusing upon. I worked upon a variety of Labouchere (including my own versions) and found it promising but only if u have millions of chips.

If you can send me a text doc or pdf (I don't use xcl)I would be happy to take a look

Quote from: Rolex-Watch on July 15, 2014, 12:46:33 AM
My personal opinion having played this, is you won't win flat betting, because you are laying out 2 to win 1, all it takes it the odd back to back repeat (very rare, but I've had it), include the odd zero then try and come back from that betting flat, so then it is the usual progression issues for playing the 3rd's, some form of a Labby was my preference than the expected triple up.  Also I ran it on the Dozen's and Columns at the same time.

I use a 3-line Labby as well, but it may be a little to slow for my taste-also, not sure that there isn't a monster sequence out there waiting to destroy it.


I'm talking to GLC now about a 50-line Labby method that so far has won against every nightmare run that I can find (I started with the "horror" sequences provided a couple of years ago in the Bayes, Fripper discussion). Still waiting for the sequence that can kill it

Quote from: Rolex-Watch on July 14, 2014, 07:36:54 PM
It has been a long time since I played this and I recall rationalising writing in rows of 5, more variables (spots) less likely a triple repeat in the same spot.

makes sense - I'm sure there are 100s of different ways to create these "rare" patterns and win long term. Perhaps everyone is chasing ghosts on these forums, when a simple system already exists

Quote from: Rolex-Watch on July 14, 2014, 04:52:18 PM
Hi TheLaw

I've actually played this approach in a B&M casino's, it seemed to hold up well (I didn't flat bet).  The issue I had was how many results to write from left to right, writing via rows of 3 is really of no significance, I was looking for some optimum figure when really there isn't.   Also I found waiting a little tedious and ended up including other factors.

Agreed. A bit too much of a waiting game, but a super conservative winner!

Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 14, 2014, 04:33:58 AM
Hi Law,
U have any idea to solved this?  I can't as the staking out of my preferences.

[double  dozen bet, bet every spin] start with 1unit for both dozen.
LLLLLWLLLLLWLLLLLWLLLLLWLLLWLLLWLLLWLLWLWLWWWWWWWWWWW

A 20 line Labby would work ( for a full explanation, just search Labby on the forums)

Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 14, 2014, 04:26:22 AM
Thanks Law,
Unfortunately as u can't show step by step, its hard for me to understand.
Thanks anyway.
BTW, do u have any progression, or strategy, that good to win the double dozen bet???[Labby,Lanky or anything that  win mostly in, the average bet selection]
Thanks in advance.

Something that I'm working on right now is a flat betting opportunity for dozens based on JL's Pattern Breaker. Here is a summary :


take your normal Pattern Breaker lines


213
122
331
321
etc


...now, you notice where the first 3 on the third line matches with the first 3 on the fourth line-this is a rare event. If the next bet is based on a 3 (like the one in the third line over the 2), then bet that the 3 over 3 will not repeat (highly unusual to see this pattern). SO your bet in this situation would be...


331
3-trigger - bet for this patter not to repeat (bet dozens 1+2)


331
32-winner


So far this has won with flat betting (warning-this is a bit of a grind) about 4 units per hour live, or 20 units using RNG.


Good luck!

Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 14, 2014, 03:32:42 AM
Hi Law.,
Very interesting strategy, but can't understand,
May u please make a step by step example of betting below.

The 69 red in 200 spin is still the record.[ not 65win, in 200.]
The HP.Johnson and 1/65 LANKY DIVISOR,can beat , but alas not on BM casino as, the staking too complex.

HAMBURG 25/10/1999 TABLE TISH 1.
THE WORST EVER RECORDED OF 'RED' APPEAR ONLY 69 OUT OF 200 SPINS...
200 SPINS, START FROM SPIN NO 37..TO 237..BUT RECORDED BY ME AS NO. OF
SERIES.
RED APPEAR AT SPIN OF...3RD,5TH,7,10,12,16,21,23,
29,31,32,35,36,37,38,42,45,46,
52,55,58,62,65,68,69,71,75,77,80,90,92,95,97,101,102,104,114,
117,119,122,128,129,130,131,134,138,140,143,145,146,147,149,
150,154,155,158,163,164,168,171,172,174,175,180,184,187,192,
193,196..
ZERO=14,105,153,186,190,199.
IF U CAN FIND A SYSTEM TO WIN THESE SERIES, U MAY WIN AT CASINO.

69red appear in  worst roulette 200 spins ever recorded.
ZERO=14,105,153,186,190,199.


please show step to step how to beat this
spin =1th to 200th spin,x=red hit.

1 
2 
3x
4 
5x
6   
7x
8 
9   
10x
11 
12x
13 
14   
15   
16x
17 
18 
19 
20 
21x
22   
23x
24   
25 
26   
27   
28   
29x
30   
31x
32x
33   
34 
35x
36x
37x
38x
39   
40   
41   
42x
43     
44   
45x
46 x
47     
48     
49   
50     
51     
52x
53     
54     
55 x
56     
57     
58x
59     
60   
61   
62x
63   
64   
65x
66     
67     
68x
69x
70   
71x
72     
73   
74   
75x
76     
77x
78     
79     
80x
81     
82   
83     
84     
85     
86     
87     
88     
89       
90x
91     
92x
93       
94       
95 x
96       
97x
98     
99     
100     
101x
102 x
103     
104 x
105       
106       
107     
108
109
110
111
112
113
114x
115
116
117x
118
119 x
120
121
122 x
123
124
125
126
127
128 x
129 x
130x
131 x
132
133
134x
135
136
137
138 x
139
140x
141
142
143 x
144
145x
146 x
147 x
148
149 x
150x
151
152
153
154 x
155 x
156
157
158x
159
160
161
162
163x
164 x
165
166
167
168 x
169
170
171x
172x
173
174 x
175x
176
177
178
179
180x
181
182
183
184 x
185
186
187 x
188
189
190
191
192x
193 x
194
195
196 x
197
198
199
200

Hey Beat,


Ran that sequence, and here's the results :


Method : Standard 50 Line Labby (bet from first line, add to last line)


Max Draw-down : 342 units


Win : +50 units at Spin #142


Largest Bet : 130* (last 3 spins)


* I would have probably added some lines after $75 bets, as it was clear that this was a monster run, but I followed the strict rules for this test


It's possible that with a Labby of fewer or more lines, the bets could have hit a really bad sequence (like the few 9-in-a-row runs), but there are ways to deal with that by adding lines if necessary


Unfortunately, I can't show all the work step-by-step as it would take up dozens of full pages on the forum (remember 50 lines)

the Half Labby (for EC)

This is an idea based on a traditional Labby with a large line structure, so please forgive me if this has been posted here before. I found the 65 Labby idea below on the Roulette30 forum, but they were playing it through (suicidal of course).

So the idea behind this system is to create a situation where you are ahead at some point by a small number of units (10 seems to be the sweet spot) with bets covering up to 100 Spins. You will play as if you are going to complete the Labby, but just stop when you are ahead (could end at 20 spins, or at 78 spins-so quite a range). The beauty of this system, is that is keeps the number of spins large enough to find a reasonable average.

Start by using a 50-line Labby :

l      l      l      l      l
l      l      l      l      l
l      l      l      l      l
l      l      l      l      l
l      l      l      l      l
l      l      l      l      l
l      l      l      l      l
l      l      l      l      l
l      l      l      l      l
l      l      l      l      l

------------------------------------------

Here is an example of a of the final line chart after 70 Spins :

Bankroll Needed : 100 units

Largest Draw-down : 15 units (worse than average-pretty bad run)

Win Target : 10 units

Actual Win : 11 units

lll
lll
lll
lll
lll
lll
lll
lll
lll
lll
lll
lll

I starting testing this system, after looking for something less risky than the Labby Breaker/Supa Labby Breaker. Feel free to give an example where the system fails ( I haven't found one yet).



Bonus for Super-Conservative Play: the 65 Labby

One modification of this system is to use the 65 Labby. This is based on the "worst case scenerio" of 135 losses over 200 spins. Simply use 65 lines, and set a modest win goal (10 is very conservative)

                                                                                                     theLaw

Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 11, 2014, 03:52:31 PM
http://betselection.cc/dozencolumn-7/the-whittacker-progression-for-dozen-and-column-bets/

This system appears to be for single dozen play.

Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 11, 2014, 03:50:28 PM
(most losses I've witnessed is 4)

Hi Law,
Then wait for 2 or 3 losses streaks, as 'trigger', then bet the loss streak will not over 4. with your labby or hp, or marthy, but of course place a stop-loss!!!
Only 'trigger play' may overcome the "edge", and 'long losing streaks'.
Waiting for trigger may boring, but hey!, we not rushing to lose money..

Please make a test, and share the result...
thanks....

Hey,


Not enough betting opportunities for my taste, but yes you could easily use a 3 or 4 loss streak as trigger. You would probably be looking at 2-3 bets per hour average (using both dozens and columns)

Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 11, 2014, 05:46:16 AM
QUOTE:[Finally, if you play long enough, eventually the math will always catch up with you. The goal is to profit long term, not win every game or session]

SINCE u have faith there many wins, [smiley]aes/wine.png[/smiley]long term, then this progression is better,  methink...[smiley]aes/pizza.png[/smiley]

llwlwlwlwww

monte carlo=1234678... so on till positive

1l=-2=-2
2l=-4=-6
3w=+3=-3
4l=-8=-11
5w=+5=-6
6l=-12=-18
7w=+7=-11
8l=-16=-27
9w=+9=-18
10w=+10=-8
11w=+11=+3

methink, this less suicidal, but of course, there are many better progressions out there.
Anyone kind enough  to show??[smiley]aes/vicious.png[/smiley][smiley]aes/wine.png[/smiley][smiley]aes/wink.png[/smiley][smiley]aes/tongue.png[/smiley]?

Your bet selection is good as it avoid suffering long losing streaks, but the your labby/HP progression very dangerous as it will deplete yr bankroll very fast!!![smiley]aes/vampire.png[/smiley]
With good progression, you will win long term, methink...[smiley]aes/wine.png[/smiley]

Thanks!

Hey Beat,

After testing this progression early on, I discovered that you quickly reach a point of no return where you need 3 then 4 then 5 wins etc to get even.

I'm sure there is a safer progression out there for this system, but I have yet to see it. There may even be a good version of Marti for this (most losses I've witnessed is 4)

Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 10, 2014, 04:00:34 PM
let say l=lose, w=win
how to labby [HP.Johnson]the wl below
-----------
l.l.l.wwwwww
---------------------------

bet1/1=-2
l
l
l  lose of [l].l.l.wwwwww
----------------------------
bet 1/1=-2=-4
l
ll
ll lose of [l].[l].l.wwwwww
------------
  bet 1/1=-2=-6

l   
lll
lll lose of [l].[l].[l].wwwwww
---------------
bet 1/1=+1=-5

l 
llll
llll win of [l].[l].[l].[w]wwwww
-----------
bet 4/4=+4=-1
llll 
llll    win of [l].[l].[l].[w][w]wwww
============
bet 4/4=+4=+3

llll

win of [l].[l].[l].[w][w][w]www
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

how about llwlwlwlwww

bet 1/1=lose=-2
l
l
l
=lose=-2 [l]lwlwlwlwww
----------------
bet 1/1=-2=lose
l
ll
ll
lose=-2=-4, [l][l]wlwlwlwww
------------------------
bet 2/2=+2
ll
ll
lll
win=+2=-2, [l][l][w]lwlwlwww
------------------------
bet 2/2=lose-4
ll
lll
lose=-4=-6, [l][l][w][l]wlwlwww
------------------------
bet 4/4=+4win
llll
lllll

win=+4=-2, [l][l][w][l][w]lwlwww
---------------
bet 5/5=-10lose
lllll
lose=-10=-12,[l][l][w][l][w][l]wlwww
--------------
bet 15/15=win=+15

lllll,llllllllll
win=15=+3net  ,[l][l][w][l][w][l][w]lwww
this is very dangerous as Mr Marthy kicks in when losing streaks!!!

Few ways that you can handle this :


-first, you can just add lines if the bets get too high (proper Bankroll needed of course = $300-$500 for $1 units)-As I said in my first post, I usually add a line early on when a bet gets past 3x2dozens for safety. Bankroll is meant to tolerate 10 losses in a row, or any variable of losses.


-second, you could look for a more conservative trigger (like waiting for  2 or 3 losses to begin progression-many ways this can be modified)


-third, try the Supa Dupa Streets bet to create a more (claimed) random distributaion


-fourth, increase Bankroll to suit your comfort level


Finally, if you play long enough, eventually the math will always catch up with you. The goal is to profit long term, not win every game or session

First off, thanks to everyone on all of the Roulette Forums for all of the great theory and strategy info.


The following is a system that I have culled together from John Legend's "Pattern Breaker" methodology and the standard Labby betting progression. It has yet to lose, so I welcome anyone who can shoot it down. Please note that this system is only for use on a live wheel, as I have not tried it on the RNG Systems. As always, jumping from table to table is preferred, but not mandatory for success. This system can be played after only 3 spins (most cases) of charting.


Bankroll : $300-500 ($1/1 unit bet)


Average wins (conservative) : 1 unit/ 3 spins (ex. 12 spins = 4 units won)


Betting Size : $2-$100 (max-betting includes complete bet for two dozens - ex $1/$1 - $50/$50)


The System :


Start by recording the first three spins (or more if you prefer) to make the first line using the results from the Dozens (or Columns).


Ex. Spins : 19-15-31-27-25-17-34-03-03-16-17-04-15-18-07-05-32-29


...so your first line is


223 (first three dozens) - we are now going to bet that the next line is going to be different (but with a bit of a twist that you'll see in a moment)
3      w (betting on other two dozens to win - 1/3 in this instance)
33    w
332  w


...so now the first two lines read


223
332   ...then
3      L    ...so now we will wait to bet again until we have another win (so we are betting for streaks of different results)
31    w (no bet, but first win is a trigger so bet next spin-always following win)
311  w

...continuing


223
332
311[size=78%]   [/size]
221  wwL (two wins, loss, and then wait for another win)
221  LLL (three loss, but no bets, so no problem)
1      w (trigger - no bet)
13    w
133  w


So our total win loss line so far looks like this :


223
332  www
311  Lww
221  wwL
221  LLL
133  www


wwwLwwwLww


Betting Progression :


I use a simple three step Labby as follows :


l
l
l


...for every loss you will add 2 units to the Labby like so :


l
ll
ll


...next bet 1 unit (x2 - 1 for each dozen)


results (remove top line from Labby)


ll
ll


...next bet 2 units (x2 - 1 for each dozen)


results (remove top line from Labby)


ll


...and on until you're done-winning 3 units.


Here is what the progression would have looked like played out for each bet:


wwwLwwwLww

l
l
l
-------w
l
l
-------w
l
-------w


start new lines (+ 3 units won)


l
l
l
-------L
l
ll
ll
-------w
ll
ll
-------w
ll
-------w



start new lines (+ 3 units won)


l
l
l
-------L
l
ll
ll
------w
ll
ll
------w
ll


....and so on ...


The power of this system is that it appears to keep the losing streaks to a bare minimum. Due to the long winning streaks, I would suggest any rare betting situation which reaches 50 units (100 units total bet) to be added as lines instead of adding to the existing lines in the event of a loss to keep from reaching table limits. I have not seen a bet reach 50 units, but i'm sure it's possible at some point if you play long enough. Also, I treat the Zero(s) as losses (add to Labby) where they appear, and play through as if they do not exist.


I have studied roulette over the years as a hobby, and own a production/design company that takes up most of my time, but I will try to respond to any questions if you have them.


Happy Hunting!!!



                                                                                                                                       theLaw


Sample Game : (actual spins - live wheel - single Zero)*   


Spins: 180   


Win: +66 units (+1 unit/2.7 spins)


*No zeros in this game, but I used this game because it was a particularly ban run in terms of losses. W/L ratio is usually closer to 3/1*


Bets Won : 75**


Bets Lost : 38


**added lines to 9 bets - all single line (marti) over 3 units - helps to keep any multiple losses low verses when bets are higher


Max Overall Drawdown : -01


Largest Bet : 24x2 (-48 total bet)


Longest Losing Run : 4 Bets (uncommon-usually 3 max most games)


Longest Winning Run : 7 Bets (common up to 12)


Longest Wait for Trigger : 3 + Trigger (4 total)




Dozen   w/L      Total    (underscore =no bet including triggers)


222      (first line charted)
321      wL_      -01
213      www   +04
122      www   +07
221      wL_      +06
333      www   +11
312      L_w      +12
312      L_ _      +10
321      _ _w   +11
332      L_w      +11
131      wL_      +13
321      wwL   +12
332      _ _w   +16
321      L_w      +13
323      L_ _      +02
212      www   +19
122      wwL   +19
221      _L_      +17
123      wL_      +14
323      wL_      +08
111      _ww   +24
331      wwL   +24
221      _wL      +25
132      _ww   +26
222      wwL   +29
221      _ _ _      
121      wL_      +27
113      _ _ w   +30
132      L_w      +28
131      L_ _      +16
222      www   +34
113      www   +37
312      wL_      +36
321      L_w      +34
133      www   +41
233      wL_      +40
331      _L_      +38
332      L_ _      +34
222      wwL   +34
111      _ww   +45
131      L_L      +41
322      _ww   +45
313      L_w      +43
222      www   +50
233      L_w      +51
223      L_L      +47
221      _ _ _
213      L_w      +46
133      wwL   +52
213      _wL      +49
121      _ww   +57
323      www   +60
331      L_w      +59
133      wL_      +57
133      L_ _      +51
332      _L_      +39
313      L_w      +39
212      wL_      +61
332      wwL   +58
121      _ww   +66


Total : +66
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Supa Labby Breaker (100 spins) *using Supa Dupa Street Bets*


Bankroll Needed : $1200-1500 (4/$1x2 units needed to cover street bets)


Win: +180 units (+1.8 unit/1 spin)


Bets Won : 48


Bets Lost : 18


Max Overall Drawdown : -04


Largest Bet : 9x2x4 (-72 total bet)


Longest Losing Run : 3 Bets


Longest Winning Run : 7 Bets


Longest Wait for Trigger : 2 + Trigger (3 total)


747      (charting)
144      wL_               -04
477         wL_                +16
774      www      +28
111      www      +40
177      L_w              +43
444      www      +56
47o7   L_L_      +24
147      wwL      +52
477      _wL              +40
114      _ww      +72
444      wwL      +72
474      _ _ L      +48
711      _ ww      +84
117      wL_              +80
177      L_L              +20
114      _ _w      +56
411      wL_              +88
147      www      +108
771      www      +120
447      www      +132
711      www      +144
411      wL_              +140
11o7   _L_ _      +124
411      wL_              +108
147      www      +160
17o7   L_L_           +140
444      _ww      +172
144      wL_              +168
117      _ _w      +172
4      w              +180


Total : +180


                                                                        theLaw