Quote from: ADulay on May 02, 2017, 05:59:12 PM

And if they're rigging the shoe so that the wagers on the most money are losing, I'd really like to know that one.

AD

Yes!  And at times it does seem that way and yet--at others (an equal amount or more??) that big money wins.  IMO--it seems we all dwell on and remember quite vividly those times when say some goes table max and every one is table min or close to it and the guy wagering the $10 or $25 wins. 

But, I have been at winning tables when the dealer had to pay in larger demonization chips and take back (say there was 4,900.00 out there in green and black) and the dealer would pay in purple and chocolate and take all the green and black, etc., until she got a fill that was being rushed.  Just most of the time the players give it back and don't take all the dealers bank in a short period of time, but it does happen. 

But, seriously in all reality there is nothing the shoe can produce that would guarantee the players lose, no matter how much they wager.  Since there is no optional draws or player/dealer generated optional anything--and since the player can wager on either side, there is no way a shoe can be set up to 'cheat' a player, maybe some far fetched theory about a continuous shuffled shoe with the card reader and motherboard fallacy within the shufflers, etc., however it is not a continuous shuffled shoe.

I have sat down countless times and after numerous losing hands, I see someone winning.  I go with them and they lose.  I wait out and they win the next 4 hands, I go with them and they lose.  I wait out and they win once again.  I mean every single time I go with them-they lose.  And this is for a period of 10-15 times, not once or twice or three or even four times.  It happens. And when I was wagering I might be $100 on my thinking and they are opposite me with $500 or $1,000 or more. 

I don't know about you, but I definitely remember my losses and those times when I won really good and then gave it all back rather than the times I win and it is not record setting, etc. 

Quote from: Blue_Angel on May 02, 2017, 05:42:37 AM
You should know better after all these years, I didn't expect to receive this respond from someone like you.
Just a friendly tip, the best way to decide what to bet is to wait to see where the most money have been bet and then bet the opposite.
If you are the only person at the table then good luck...!

I can seriously understand at Blackjack and possibly at Poker with some 'possibles' that are not outright cheating, but along the lines of not allowing the player at BJ to be able to count and determine with approximating how many big and small valued cards are left and at poker keeping the players there waiting longer with 'no start' hands, etc., etc.  And, of course, that is only with the continuous shuffler not the machine they use at baccarat tables.  But not at baccarat whatsoever.  For two factors, one the players can wager either side and second, when the shoe is cut there is always a change in any pre-set make up the deck could have had. 

As well, I have witnessed just as many perfect shoes, streak/runs or huge sections of chop-chop with auto shufflers as manually shuffling.  At times it sure is easy to say, that damn shuffler, etc., but not true at baccarat.  Also, why would some multi billion dollar corporations risk immediate revocation of their license?   

I told you, I wanted to wager this game and probably would have put huge money on it, The Yankees first in the American League, @ Home, against a team with lose stats as bug as the Yankees win stats, so on and so forth---and I know that is not all to consider but the Yankees are from My Bronx--or should I say I am from the Yankees Bronx.  If I wasn't tight this week I would have wagered................and got burned big time. 

For those of you that don't me,  I am in my mid 50's and been around the casinos in Atlantic City since the 1980's, just a couple years after they made gambling legal in New Jersey.  Then Las Vegas as well as the two in Eastern Connecticut in the mid to late1990's. Occasionally playing in Reno, Southern California and Biloxi, Mississippi. After moving from the northeast after the disaster of 9/11 happened, I played at numerous properties around the upper and central Midwest. 

Although I am not a grind, daily type of player, I have spent many hours in various types of casinos playing mostly baccarat and some black jack.  I met numerous kinds of people in the various casinos I have frequented.  Some were business trips and some were strictly personal. We used to mix business with the casino, especially when I was in business in NYC and New Jersey.  Relationships were defined and refined along the boardwalk in Atlantic City.  Those times above all else, were the most memorable and precious to myself in many many ways.  Of course all this started before the internet really picked up and became the item it did, especially in gambling, information, systems and false perceptions, etc.
 
While many members on here are elusive and quite, they believe in and subscribe to certain systematic and grinding type ways of gambling, I do not.  I don't gamble for a hundred dollars a day to sustain myself, there is nothing wrong doing that, just what comes with that is a different frame of mind than the one I have about gambling and casinos. I never will be a grind gambler as I enjoy the safety and the income that, owning or partnering in a business has. I use gambling as an outlet and a sport of fun, for lack of a longer explanation.  I do okay at it and while I do not classify myself as a recreational gambler or degenerate gambler, for the most part I have fun and enjoy myself at the casinos I go to.  The best analogy I can give is about a couple of bowlers I know.  One of them lives eats and breathes to bowl.  He wagers on it, plays it and is always at one of several bowling alleys.  The several times I have and my other friends have bowled with him, he takes it serious, doesn't drink, doesn't laugh, puts on a mean face and needs to make strikes or spares each and every time or his evening falls apart.  The other guy has a professional career in a 'non-bowling' field and when we do bowl together, he is funny, laughing, buying everyone food and doesn't matter if he wins or comes in last place.  I tend to think I am the same with gambling as the second bowler I described.

I have experienced family outings, holiday celebrations, get-a-ways, hundreds of concerts and shows, special family events and yearly birthdays, etc., at various casino properties where gambling was just part of the trip.  While some players do gamble for the lifestyle, I never have.  It is just that my life style included going to the casino. We merely used the casinos for the same purpose someone would travel to another part of the country to a resort property.

A handful of relationships have evolved and stayed to this very day, while some have went by the way side due to death, businesses or marriages dissolved, casino properties closing or being bought out or just in general—change of lifestyle and people moving away with their lives.  So, the relationships that are left are special and will remain for quite some time I figure from this point.   The other night I get a phone call from someone I knew in Las Vegas from the late 1980's.  He started as a dealer and made his way up to senior management in the marketing department at the Las Vegas Hilton.  I met him and knew him from there and we associated with each other outside of the property as well.  More than the 'player-casino personnel' type of relationship by far.  Again, this all started and took place before the 'internet on-line electro-techy' instant everything era that we are in since 2005 or so. 

He is currently at another casino property in Las Vegas, on the strip but not a mid-strip huge mega resort that I got burned out on, as I mentioned in other postings.  He is at a property that is striving to bring back a bit of the pre-2000 Vegas days and has been fairly successful at doing so.  We talked about the 1980's and 1990's Las Vegas.  What a great phone conversation to tell you guys the absolute truth.  I mentioned writing on this board and brought up the aspect of what some talk about here just to see what he thought.  On the other end of my phone was a guy that literally spent his entire life in a casino, day in and day out for nearly the past 40 years, just about.  You know, at times standing and watching players at the tables for 20 hours at a time.  He laughed so hard, choked and about had a shortness of breath when I detailed about systems and related bet-placement methods that are discussed here.   He says, 'you know—I have witnessed players winning and losing millions of dollars, and I will tell you from experience and real-life happenings, the wins come at the least suspecting times to the players that generally don't count of them.  The losses come to those players that wager because they absolutely know they can beat the game and these days—those far outnumber the ones before in the 80's and the 90's'.

Then we went on to the best part of the conversation, the reminiscing of the Las Vegas Hilton.  Although considered 'off-strip' it was almost adjacent to it.  Their baccarat pit was almost second to none in Vegas for numerous years.  Of course the icing on the Hilton's cake was their entertainment.  And their entertainment broke all-time records with the biggest names in show business.   I think he started there a few years before I got out of high school which was in 1976.  So he caught the last couple of years of Elvis Presley's all time super performances at The Hilton and his attendance breaking 100% sold-out shows.  Same with Liberace, AKA 'Mr. Showmanship'.  It was during that time I met my friend at The Hilton.  And the boxing matches, those were the icing on the cake as well, some of the largest worldwide boxing matches, happened at The Hilton. 

The phone call continued and my friend went on to reminisce about one of the Liberace concert weekends we were at.  We just got to Vegas and was checking in, my friend hustles me away from the lobby and the person that was with me to get something to eat.  Didn't even finish the check in and he told them to put my bags in the room and we would be back later.  We actually went off property to a place now closed, it was called "Foxy's Firehouse Casino" and as we were eating, he told me he booked me a suite on the 13th floor along with some other baccarat players.  Unlike the highest majority of hotels and office buildings, The Hilton did not believe in the unlucky 13th floor (known as 'Triskaidekaphobia) and my trip will be quite profitable that weekend.  He cracks up laughing when he tells me about the look on my face when he said, the suite was on the 13th floor. LOL, I laughed so hard how he remembered that after all these years.   I visited him and another guy that I knew back from the Hilton days in Vegas along with my little son from my current marriage.  That was during Asian New Year back in 2015 and it was a great week.  When he gave us a tour at the current property he is at, he kept telling my son about Elvis, Liberace, and the rest of the famous entertainers and the look from my son was priceless.  Every once in a while we would look at each other and just wink, but he felt compelled for some reason to explain to a 2 year old about the 1980's.  My wife wasn't even listening, she was consumed in eating her lunch.

He brought up how our entire aisle in the Hilton's showroom, a few rows from the stage—got up and danced when Liberace played his song 'Boogie Woogie'.  He said if it was a dance contest we would have made complete fools of ourselves and that was the reason he loved all his players so much—because we were so real and so fun—it didn't even seem like a job.  He further went on to compare back then to the present and although there are some down to earth players, overall it is another world of casino patrons.  Amen, I second that.

So, for those of you that go into a casino to sit and grind and sweat and cuss life, I understand and I am sorry for any desperation that the casino brings out in you.  But in all realty, the casino is no different than so many large hotel resort type of properties that do not possess gaming where many just experience lost money in going and yet others, get extreme value for their dollars spent including a couple of words, that have different meanings to each of us, enjoyment and experiences.

Wednesday, April 26, 6:10 PM

Comerica Park, Detroit

Seattle

Mariners
(9-13)

8 - 0

Final

Detroit

Tigers
(11-9)
 
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  R H E
Mariners 0 3 0 0 1 2 1 0 1  8 15 0
Tigers 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  0 4 1

Box Score

Just curious, NOT BASHING YOU!  Why would you have felt Vegas was manipulating the underdog as you stated?  It was a blow out, the picked the correct underdog.  Usually always doing so.

We were in Chanhassen last night when the win came the entire restaurant stood up and cheered and the owner bought everyone a drink and gave the kids ice cream on the house......

I bet in them @ -105 at The Wynn sports book in Vegas through my daughter that lives there.  But I love the team. I only wager sporadically on them, I used to wager NFL like 6 or more games a week from 98 to 2009 and did very well.  But now only my 3 favorites in football, and not every week.

Bottom of the 8th, Yankees 1 and Pirates 2, doesn't look great.

Make that, for sure it doesn't look great.......................

         
Sunday, just after lunch here.

Two things going on.   

1)  The Bronx Bombers to win with a $1,200 wager and it is the third and the score is 0 for the Yankees and 1 for he Pirates;

2)  My thread I promised myself would have more than 2,000 views by Monday AM and the thread in the Baccarat room is right now at 1991 views @ Sunday a bit after 1:00PM!!!!! 

Go Yankees................Go baccarat thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yankees starts in a few min's, I am betting $1,200.00 on them because of you  , not because I love them and I am from the Bronx (Jerome Avenue owned a business and lived up in the NE Bronx) and because I always loved them (repeating) but because of your system!!!!!! It's all on you!!!  (you taking that seriously, right???)   LOL, they better come through, the Bronx Bombers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was referring to the Yankees, the Brewers, The Washington National & Baltimore Orioles.

2 won and 2 lost.

I apologize, was just making conversation and I will curtail that, seems to bother you on the message board.  No pun or derogatory was written or in anyway intended.  Thanks be good!

And then when I go back to when I first posted in your thread on the Mets, you won and lost the following, but I might be wrong as you  insinuate:

WON:  Washington; Baltimore; Blue Jays; Arizona
LOST:  Milwaukee; Yankees; Cubs; Mets

That is kind of what I had tallied up as well, but whatever.................................

But then again, according to you, I am not telling the truth...............................

So the last 4 you got 2 right.  Pretty much like black or red but you have to wait longer.

Quote from: Wewin2222 on April 20, 2017, 04:05:02 AM
Wise words alrelax, I have played this game more times than I care to admit. I absolutely love the game and have much time invested into studying the game. I have made and lost thousands of dollars playing Baccarat and it's hard for me to play lately because if I have a bad day and don't win I get very, very, angry. I love wagering on sports as well so I'm focusing my energy on that right now. If I could suggest anything to someone wanting to be successful at Baccarat it would be this: Have a pre-determined bet selection and wait for it.

Wewin2222

You are correct!

Your emotional state falls into the 'intangible' part of playing baccarat.   I do believe "Tangible mixed with Intangible as well as Variability" describes the game pretty well.

Many on this board ague and discredited me numerous times for the 'OTHER' areas I bring up that 100% affects a players mentality and decisions at the baccarat table.  The psychology of the 'unknown' meaning--nothing to do with the shoe and the game of  baccarat--effects your play so drastically it is not even comical in the least bit!

Most will never find out or define what I have, I am convinced of that.  I wrote the following which touches on what you have with what I defined as #3.

https://betselection.cc/baccarat-forum/psych-of-winning-at-baccarat/

.......", how you accept it is up to you and a huge influencing factor on how you will continue to wager.  Something like, "If you can not see clearly and you are aggravated, you will not wager properly."  When I wrote that, I was referring to a player winning and being in the wrong frame of mind because he was aggravated--mad--upset with other life factors or even the factor of the game because of the amount of money he has lost, etc. And just last weekend I saw it, I do almost every week I go tot the casino.  It was a female who was smacking the casino, probably around $10k up off a $1,500 buy-in I think it was.  Well over $10k in half a shoe approximately.  Then she became aggravated with about 3 or 4 losses in a row.  To add insult to injury brewing, it was those losses that she wagered and convinced the whole table to go with her--it was a clear strong pattern and she went with the opposite cut mentality. (PLEASE-I understand that the shoe could have cut just as easily as it stayed doing what it was doing!  However, it was her emotions and everyone else's emotions that clearly took over and took over 100%).  Hand after hand, like I said--I think 4 wagers.  Lost each one.  $500 then $800-$1,1000 then $2,000 wager, table max.  Even gave her girlfriend chips to wager more.  Each wager was sheer stupidity and she should have just sat out.  A few did, many went with her and clearly went with her because she wagered that way.  Loss after loss.  Then like 10 plus Player hands came out and the losses were huge.  The faces (not very happy), the smiles (none), the high fiving (zero), the boasting (zip), the eyes (hard stares).  All prevalent to a written script--100%.  The next two shoes wiped everyone out.  Everyone buying in, going to cash checks, going to the ATM repeatedly.

More so the time factor or how many wagers you plan--is the emotional aspect and how it does effect your playing, don't kid yourself it certainly does!

I have wrote about some other topics which included the player's emotional state on this board.  You might not have those on-line sitting on your couch with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a glass of milk, but at the casino they count enormously.

It is that, 'Frick--I am not going to get mad and upset--I will get it back and smack the casino--I just did it and I have the knowledge and the experience and the bank roll to it.  I will win and win big' type of attitude, and it happens all the time.  And, that is when the player becomes upset-disturb-mad-teed-off-whatever your label-it happens and it happens so frequently it is really, most common.  Most will never see themselves doing it or even others at the table.  That is the sad part.

Most players are not focused on the results as they are presenting themselves.  They are focused on their attempt to predict and have the results conform to their expectations, which is really regressing away from the mean and influential observations misinterpreted.  This is what the casino, the hosts, the management of the properties count on.  The player can't stay away from bad bets.  That is the exact and only reason the pens, the scorecards, the multi-thousand dollar scoreboards are bought and installed by the casino for your eyes.  They influence and they control you, once you learn that and use it to your advantage, you will become a more profitable player.

Many ask me, PM and otherwise, what is the single thing "I" really need to remember or do to help me win @ the casino.  IMO, there it is.

I really thought it was the Lakers.  LOL.  I already found the monkey and smacked him around a bit!  Guess I was thinking about the opposite end of sports wagering on the receiving side.  I will leave this area of wagering to WeWinn and the experts.