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Topic: Roulette x6 multiwheel  (Read 1183 times)

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Offline Blue_Angel

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Roulette x6 multiwheel
« on: June 17, 2017, 08:53:34 PM »
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  • Hello everyone!

    I'm not sure if you are aware of the roulette multiball or multiwheel, in any case I'd like to share with you my thoughts about the particular game.

    It's exactly the same rules as normal roulette but players have the option to bet simultaneously on up to 6 different wheels.
    Each wheel's result is independent from the rest, the same goes for each successive spin.

    So if I was betting 6 numbers on all 6 wheels simultaneously it'd be similar of betting 1 number for 36 consecutive spins, but with 1 important difference!

    While betting 1 number for 36 spins provides the opportunity to win up to 35 times your stake by risking 36 times your bet, the simultane play could make you win up to 6 times 35 equals 210 times your stake but without increasing the risk of potential loss of 36 times your bet.

    You might argue that hitting the same number on all 6 wheels has less chance to occur but you are wrong since each wheel's outcome is independent from the rest.
    Therefore the probability to have the same number hit in 6 spins in a row is different from the chance to have the same number come up in 6 different wheels.
    While on multiple wheels your chance for each number per wheel remains the same: 1 to 37 = 2.7%, the probability for 6 spins in a row is 36 in the 6th power (36x36x36x36x36x36).

    Seems like something interesting to say the least, except if I'm wrong.
    I'd like to know your view regarding this, what do you think?
    When Steven Seagull follows the boat is because thinks that scoops will be thrown in the sea...


    Offline wannawin

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #1 on: June 17, 2017, 10:39:07 PM »
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  • where are the rules of the game? where can we play for fun money? how much would a single $ 1 bet pay? thank you.
    say things directly to show respect for other people's time. Walter.

    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #2 on: June 17, 2017, 10:57:17 PM »
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  • where are the rules of the game? where can we play for fun money? how much would a single $ 1 bet pay? thank you.

    The rules are the same as with normal roulette.
    I think it's on every casino with Playtech platform and Bet Voyager too.
    Personally I've tried it from Paddypower casino (only on downloadable version)
    If you bet 1 $ on 1 wheel you could win up to 35 $ net , if you decide (optional) to have the same bet on 2,3,4,5 or 6 wheels simultaneously it would cost 2fold,3fold,4fold,5fold up to 6fold and also in case of win the gain would be multifold.

    The same could be applied at B&M casinos by betting multiple tables on the same time.

    The big question remains, does this way makes difference in our bottom line?
    Is it better than risking the same 36 units in one number at one table?
    We could bet a number on 6 different wheels/tables for 6 consecutive spins or 6 numbers on 6 different wheels/tables for 1 spin.
    In all cases the risk is 36 units, but the possible profit varies.
    When Steven Seagull follows the boat is because thinks that scoops will be thrown in the sea...

    Offline wannawin

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #3 on: June 17, 2017, 11:23:57 PM »
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  • thank you for taking the time to respond. so it is like locating 6 roulettes on the same board. but what is the logic for the roulette x6? why not x4, x5, x8, another number instead of x6?  maybe marketing by the so called number of the beast that carries the 6s >:D? it seems quite arbitrary.

    In all cases the risk is 36 units, but the possible profit varies.

    I hardly remember it was more convenient to bet one number 35 times instead of betting 35 numbers once because you can win equal or more than what corresponds to win when you play 35 times one single bet.  however by betting 35 numbers once it denies the possibility of winning more. leaving only what corresponds to 1 won spin or total loss. this is a point to consider in the strategy of the cunning player..
    say things directly to show respect for other people's time. Walter.

    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #4 on: June 18, 2017, 12:02:17 AM »
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  • thank you for taking the time to respond.


    You are welcome

    so it is like locating 6 roulettes on the same board. but what is the logic for the roulette x6? why not 4, 5, 8, another number instead of 6?  maybe marketing by the so called number of the beast that carries the 6s >:D? it seems quite arbitrary.


    The creators decide to make it like this, not me.
    'Multiball or multiwheel if you will provides the option to bet up to 6
    times simultaneously your bet(s).
    Why don't you wonder why the roulette numbers are 37 instead of a round number like 30 or 50??
    Or even the reason why they have the obscure arrangement around the wheel which is not the arithmetical order such as on the table 1,2,3...etc
    Why don't you wonder?
    Something for you to ponter.

    I hardly remember it was more convenient to bet one number 36 times instead of betting 36 numbers once because of the variance so you can win equal or more than what corresponds you to win when you play 36 times one single bet.  however betting a single spin 36 numbers denies that possibility of winning more. leaving only what corresponds to 1 won spin or leaving you with total loss. this is a point to consider in the strategy of the cunning player..

    I believe the balance between risk and reward is the optimum, in other words:
    more numbers = higher win rate, less profit and more loss
    less numbers = lower win rate, more profit and less loss
    Usually few are the numbers which appear more than average and those numbers don't belong to the same table group.
    Which means that by betting table groups you would carry dead weight along with 1 or 2 numbers which are overperforming.
    In other words you are reducing the payout and your chance to be overall winner.
    So just stick to few numbers, that's regarding quantities.
    About qualities of bet selections is the tricky part, it's easy to say that those 6 numbers are above average after 74 spins, but are they going to remain like this and for how long??

    Just a hint for your perusal: think in proportions, think analogies...!  ;)
    When Steven Seagull follows the boat is because thinks that scoops will be thrown in the sea...

    Offline wannawin

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #5 on: June 18, 2017, 02:02:45 AM »
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  • Why don't you wonder why the roulette numbers are 37 instead of a round number like 30 or 50??

    Perhaps for the same reason they add 0, 00, 000 ... instead of # 37, # 38, # 39 because 36 numbers give exact divisions of varied forms that are useful without residues or numbers out. 36 is divided in a balanced way.  it seems to me that such is all that entails this reasoning. there are no numbers of the beast nor pacts with underworld entities.

    Or even the reason why they have the obscure arrangement around the wheel which is not the arithmetical order such as on the table 1,2,3...etc
    Why don't you wonder?
    Something for you to ponter.

    It seems to me that it is to prevent physical wheel patterns from being easily recognized by the average player .  patterns like ball jump every 5 spaces would be recognized by arithmetical order with ease . Or when the same sector of the wheel is hit repeatedly people would notice that it is stuck on neighbours if all that comes out are number values close to each other.  Or maybe they would determine the signature of the croupier with a greater ability so adding a layer of more clutter helps to divert the attention away from the physical cylinder towards the numbers as in the draw of another lottery.

    I believe the balance between risk and reward is the optimum, in other words:
    more numbers = higher win rate, less profit and more loss
    less numbers = lower win rate, more profit and less loss
    Usually few are the numbers which appear more than average and those numbers don't belong to the same table group.
    Which means that by betting table groups you would carry dead weight along with 1 or 2 numbers which are overperforming.

    Interesting consideration about dead weight by inactive numbers. it is very true that a quad with two active numbers and two cold numbers carries a statistical load on its back. it is never known how much longer it will take for a number to stop being asleep . at least the recent number is known to have the possibility to come out more times than the average. this can make the statistical basis for people who play what is coming out while avoiding the cold groups.

    About qualities of bet selections is the tricky part, it's easy to say that those 6 numbers are above average after 74 spins, but are they going to remain like this and for how long??

    Just a hint for your perusal: think in proportions, think analogies...!  ;)

    Betting sleepers is to throw money by betting that it will reverse the trend.  as they pay when the number goes out and it loses on the ones that do not come out then if the sleeper trend continues it will continue without payment. big mistake because this is a game that has a vein to go to the extremes . I agree it is better to seek to be benefited by positive ends above average rather than throwing more money waiting for a negative end to be reversed.  in my humble opinion.
    say things directly to show respect for other people's time. Walter.

    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #6 on: June 18, 2017, 02:41:45 AM »
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  • Perhaps for the same reason they add 0, 00, 000 ... instead of # 37, # 38, # 39 because 36 numbers give exact divisions of varied forms that are useful without residues or numbers out. 36 is divided in a balanced way.  it seems to me that such is all that entails this reasoning. there are no numbers of the beast nor pacts with underworld entities.

    I don't agree, wouldn't be easier to divide a round number such as 50 rather than 36, 37 or 38?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base36
    Why every circle has 360 degrees no matter how large or small is?
    Do you consider 360 for cycle and 36 for roulette just arbitrary numbers?
    Think deeper...!

    It seems to me that it is to prevent physical wheel patterns from being easily recognized by the average player .  patterns like ball jump every 5 spaces would be recognized by arithmetical order with ease . Or when the same sector of the wheel is hit repeatedly people would notice that it is stuck on neighbours if all that comes out are number values close to each other.  Or maybe they would determine the signature of the croupier with a greater ability so adding a layer of more clutter helps to divert the attention away from the physical cylinder towards the numbers as in the draw of another lottery.

    This is so true, I'd like to add the fact about American roulette, instead of just adding an extra number (00) for additional HE, they've went into the  trouble of rearranging the whole wheel layout differently from the European counterpart...
    Why?
    Wouldn't they have the additional HE by just adding the extra slot while maintaining the x36 payout?
    Thus if rearranging the layout was insignificant why did they bother?

    Interesting consideration about dead weight by inactive numbers. it is very true that a quad with two active numbers and two cold numbers carries a statistical load on its back. it is never known how much longer it will take for a number to stop being asleep . at least the recent number is known to have the possibility to come out more times than the average. this can make the statistical basis for people who play what is coming out while avoiding the cold groups.

    Betting sleepers is to throw money by betting that it will reverse the trend.  as they pay when the number goes out and it loses on the ones that do not come out then if the sleeper trend continues it will continue without payment. big mistake because this is a game that has a vein to go to the extremes . I agree it is better to seek to be benefited by positive ends above average rather than throwing more money waiting for a negative end to be reversed.  in my humble opinion.

    It's not about how many, but when...timing is of the utmost importance!
    When Steven Seagull follows the boat is because thinks that scoops will be thrown in the sea...

    Offline TheMagician

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #7 on: June 18, 2017, 11:56:20 AM »
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  • Hello everyone!


    While on multiple wheels your chance for each number per wheel remains the same: 1 to 37 = 2.7%, the probability for 6 spins in a row is 36 in the 6th power (36x36x36x36x36x36).

    Seems like something interesting to say the least, except if I'm wrong.
    I'd like to know your view regarding this, what do you think?

    Not entirely correct. 

    The probability for a single number bet on a normal European roulette wheel (37 numbers) is at any given spin 2,70%, but, that a single number wins  1⁄37 and loses  36⁄37. This gives us =>  −1  36⁄37 + 35  1⁄37 = −0.0270 (2.70% house edge).

    Now, a betting option with p numbers that define a win, the chance of winning a bet is 1-[1-(p/37)].

    The chance of winning on 6 numbers play on one wheel 1-[1-(6/37)],  or 1 number play on six wheels 1-[1-(1/37)*6] is the same, or 1 in 6.1667 times (0.1621%)

    the chance of the same number coming up on all six wheels after spinning them all 1 time is;  1-[(1/37)^6], 0.0000000003897532, or 1 in 2,565,756,409 spins

    You can read more about roulette and mathematics here:

    http://probability.infarom.ro/973875206Xsample.pdf
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

    Mark Twain

    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #8 on: June 18, 2017, 05:39:53 PM »
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  • Not entirely correct. 

    The probability for a single number bet on a normal European roulette wheel (37 numbers) is at any given spin 2,70%, but, that a single number wins  1⁄37 and loses  36⁄37. This gives us =>  −1  36⁄37 + 35  1⁄37 = −0.0270 (2.70% house edge).

    Now, a betting option with p numbers that define a win, the chance of winning a bet is 1-[1-(p/37)].

    The chance of winning on 6 numbers play on one wheel 1-[1-(6/37)],  or 1 number play on six wheels 1-[1-(1/37)*6] is the same, or 1 in 6.1667 times (0.1621%)

    the chance of the same number coming up on all six wheels after spinning them all 1 time is;  1-[(1/37)^6], 0.0000000003897532, or 1 in 2,565,756,409 spins

    You can read more about roulette and mathematics here:

    http://probability.infarom.ro/973875206Xsample.pdf

    Thanks, I suspected that I mistaken something, actually this was to assign the probability of having the same number on 6 spins in a row as having the same number on 6 different wheels.
    The 6 spins in row on the same wheel are mutually exclusive events, while having the same number on 6 different wheels simultaneously is mutually inclusive events.
    In the first case events are being separated by time, while on the second are being separated by space, a bit confusing.
    When Steven Seagull follows the boat is because thinks that scoops will be thrown in the sea...

    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #9 on: June 18, 2017, 05:45:04 PM »
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  • @ Wannawin, OMG your first post of this thread was the 666th!!! :))
    When Steven Seagull follows the boat is because thinks that scoops will be thrown in the sea...

    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #10 on: July 04, 2017, 01:29:41 AM »
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  • Not entirely correct. 

    The probability for a single number bet on a normal European roulette wheel (37 numbers) is at any given spin 2,70%, but, that a single number wins  1⁄37 and loses  36⁄37. This gives us =>  −1  36⁄37 + 35  1⁄37 = −0.0270 (2.70% house edge).

    Now, a betting option with p numbers that define a win, the chance of winning a bet is 1-[1-(p/37)].

    The chance of winning on 6 numbers play on one wheel 1-[1-(6/37)],  or 1 number play on six wheels 1-[1-(1/37)*6] is the same, or 1 in 6.1667 times (0.1621%)

    the chance of the same number coming up on all six wheels after spinning them all 1 time is;  1-[(1/37)^6], 0.0000000003897532, or 1 in 2,565,756,409 spins

    You can read more about roulette and mathematics here:

    http://probability.infarom.ro/973875206Xsample.pdf

    So if the spins on the same wheel are independent, why are not for different wheels??

    You said that every spin on the same wheel has 2.7 % probability for 1 number to hit, so whether I win once or 6 times in a row by parlaying my profits after the first win, has the same probability according to you.
    Then you said that betting 1 number on 6 different wheels, instead of 1 number for 6 spins on the same wheel, has 0.0000000003897532 % to hit on all of them.

    So if the spins on the same wheel are independent, why are not for different wheels??
    When Steven Seagull follows the boat is because thinks that scoops will be thrown in the sea...

    Offline TheMagician

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #11 on: July 04, 2017, 09:26:46 AM »
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  • In response to your last Question - I calculated the probability for THE SAME number showing up on all 6 wheels when all of them were spinning 1 time concurrently. If the wheels spin separately, at their own pre-programmed time settings, then the probability is as you said 2,7% for each and every one of them. It would be like a player wandering a physical Casino with six different tables placing bets on the same number on all six tables and waiting for the outcome of six different time events.

    Probability, in this Universe, is always Spatio-Temporal where actions separated by time differentiation, and actions locked by a temporal concurrence,  are two very different stories in terms of chance.

    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

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    Offline Blue_Angel

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    Re: Roulette x6 multiwheel
    « Reply #12 on: July 04, 2017, 09:55:39 AM »
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  • In response to your last Question - I calculated the probability for THE SAME number showing up on all 6 wheels when all of them were spinning 1 time concurrently.

    And why is this any different from betting 1 number for 6 spins on the same wheel??

    Aren't both of the cases independent events, therefore 2.7% accumulated probability, simultaneously or not??

    The only difference exists only if we increase the amount of numbers we bet per spin, no matter if are on 1 wheel only or more than 1 wheels on the same time.

    For example if I bet 35 numbers for 1 spin my probability is 35/37 or 84.6%, I could win only 1 unit and lose 35 units.
     
    If I'd bet 1 number for 35 spins my overall probability would be approximately 64% to hit at least once, I could win as many times as my number hits multiplied by 36 and in the worst case I'd lose 35 units.
    If what you said was true then no matter how many times I bet a single number, whether I'd bet it only once or 1 million times, the probability would always be 2.7%, of course this is far from truth!

    Just consider that NEVER in the history of roulette have happened the following events:

    1) a single number to be absent more than 666 consecutive spins

    2) all 37 numbers appeared in 37 consecutive spins (regardless of their order)

    3) a single number (any) appeared for 37 spins in a row (most has been recorded 7 spins)

    Now ask yourself why, are those events reflecting the same 2.7% regardless of what happened?
    There are extreme deviations but not everything is possible.

    After the decades of roulette history, the gazillions of accumulated spins from casinos around the world, if such ''travesties'' events where possible then they must have already occurred at least once.

    Random has its limits like everything else in universe.
    When Steven Seagull follows the boat is because thinks that scoops will be thrown in the sea...