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[Nickmsi]

Yes, I know, you have heard this before but let's explore this further.

For years I have heard that roulette/baccarat are random games and the best you can do is ride streaks, have a good time and maybe you will end up lucky and be ahead at the end of the day. Each spin is independent, past spins have no bearing, can't beat house edge, will lose in long run etc.

But what if the game was NOT RANDOM. What the heck am I talking about?

Yes, you can play roulette/baccarat Non Randomly.  There are 2 ways that I know of:

1.  PHYSICS: If the actual wheel is biased or there is a manufacturer defect, you can exploit this and more accurately predict what sector of the wheel the ball will drop in.  This is Non Random as it has absolutely no connection to the independent nature of each random spin.  It could care less. I don't think there are any biased shoes or are there?

2.  MATH:  The independent nature of each spin/hand has absolutely no effect on the laws of mathematics. 1 + 1  is always =2 no matter the dependency of the spin/hand.  This is Non Random.

Ok, let's get into the MATH part as this is what the thread is all about. 

Years ago I studied a Math Theorem called Van de Waerden Theorem(VDW) and dismissed it as I could not see any benefit.

Recently, a member (all thanks goes to Priyanka)  brought it up again and when I looked at with fresh eyes and more experience I thought, well maybe there is something to this after all.

I hate math so I will try and explain this as easy as I can.

VDW says that you will always and I mean ALWAYS have a winner in 9 spins/hands. We are discounting the Zero/Tie for now.

This has to happen, it is a proven mathematical theorem.  It is Non Random.

Here is the actual formula for those interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waerden%27s_theorem

What it boils down to is this:

In Roulette, either Red or Black is guaranteed to win in 9 spins.

In Baccarat, either Player or Banker is guaranteed to win in 9 hands.

That is the overview of using Math as a Non Random way to beat roulette/baccarat. 

More details and examples to follow in next thread.

Thanks
Nick

[Bacman]

First off in gambling nothing is guaranteed except the house will take most people's money,second you never saw a run of 10 players or bankers ......9 guaranteed noway
Bac

[Garfield]

Yup. It might. And it might not.

[Nickmsi]

Hi Bacman, Garfield . . .

Welcome to the discussion.

Yes, Bacman I have seen 9 Reds or 9 Players in a row.

That is exactly what you expect from Random.  It will produce those kinds of results.

We are exploring NON RANDOM methods, ie Math, ie VDW.

If we get 9 players in a row, using VDW you would have had your winner on Spin # 3.

Using MATH (VDW) you will have a winner within 9 spins/hands.  No doubt about it.  Always.

More to come.

Thanks
Nick

[Bacman]

So then you will have a winner within 9 then you gotta be using a negative progression

Bac

[Nickmsi]

"So then you will have a winner within 9 then you gotta be using a negative progression "

No progressions, just flat bet.

Nick

[from100]

I am all ears, Nick...

[plolp]

Using MATH (VDW) you will have a winner within 9 spins/hands.  No doubt about it.  Always.

No

1  B
2  R
3  R
4  B   Lost
5  R     no bet
6  R     no bet
7  R    no bet         no gain what are you doing now

[Nickmsi]

Hi Plop . . .

5-6-7 would complete AP for Red or 1-4-7 would complete an AP for B.

More info to come.

Thanks

Nick

[james]

At 7, either R or B would complete the AP. So it is a No Bet situation. You will skip the bet.

Looking forward for your additional information.

Thanks.

[Nickmsi]

Hi James,

Yes you are correct and a No Bet would be one choice.

Let me explain more to the other members to bring them up to speed with the AP as it is a new concept.

Cheers

Nick

[Nickmsi]

MATH (VDW) is a NON RANDOM way to play roulette/baccarat.

The core of the VDW is an Arithmetic Progression (AP).

Don't fall asleep yet, it is really simple.

For our purposes an AP is 3 numbers separated by a constant.

1-3-5 is an AP separated by a constant of 2.
1-4-7 is an AP with a constant of 3
1-5-9 is an AP with a constant of 4.
1-2-3 is an AP with a constant of 1.

These are only 16 AP involved.
1-2-3
2-3-4
1-3-5
3-4-5
4-5-6
2-4-6
5-6-7
1-4-7
3-5-7
6-7-8
2-5-8
4-6-8
7-8-9
1-5-9
3-6-9
5-7-9


Here is an example of how you would bet using the AP's:

1 = R
2 = R  ( you now have RR so you would bet the next spin would be an R to complete the first AP of 1-2-3)
3 = B you lost.  There is No Bet as non of the AP's can be completed
4 = R No Bet as none of the AP's can be completed
5 = R you now have 2 possibilities to complete an AP.  2-4 are RR so you could complete a 2-4 6 AP and
      4-5 are R so you could complete 4-5-6 AP so your bet would be R.
6 = R  You win.

Start a new cycle.

More examples:

A completed 1-3-5 AP would be RBRBR

A completed 2-3-4 AP would be PBBB

A completed 1-4-7 AP would be RRBRBRR

A completed 2-5-8 AP would be PBPPBPBB

The Bet Selection is specific, you are specifically looking to complete an AP,  ie  1-3-5 would be all Red, 2-4-6 would be all Banker, etc. a NON RANDOM event.

The Bet Selection uses past spins/hands. What?  Past spins/hands have no influence on Bet Selections. Says who?  Perhaps in Random systems they have no meaning but in Non Random systems they most assuredly do.

Getting confused? 

Perhaps the attached spreadsheet will help.  It shows you how each and every 9 cycles you will ALWAYS get a winner and it shows which of the 16 APs was completed to get the winner.

Press Function Key F9 in the spreadsheet and play around and see how the VDW and AP's work.

Enjoy and let me know what you think?

Nick

[ADulay]

NIck,

  As an example, if the "1-2-3" AP loses, can it be used again in the same block of nine?

  For some reason I'm thinking not, but wanted to make sure one way or the other.

  AD

[Garfield]

Okay I get a little confused here. What is the different between 1-3-5 and 2-4-6?

How we determine the P/B output as 1 or 2 or 3?

After a hit, is the hit become 1?

How do you start the counting?

In a streak of 6 let's say...so you only bet at hand #1,3 and 5 only?

Thx

[Garfield]

So you use it on one side only or could for both sides?