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[plolp]

Hi BetJack
all systematic methods give 50%

[ADulay]

Okay. I have some questions :

1. In case of B pppp BBBB. We will win @#4,5 and lose @#6,7,8. In other hand if we count the start of B @#4 as 1, we may get 2 W for the last 2 B.

So how do you determine when re-start the count? After a W? Or after LL? Or how? Please do explain

Thank you

Oh btw result of p B p BB pp B p will get 3 L @5,6,8 and 1W @#9

Garfield,

  I think you need to look at how the AP's are selected.

  In your first example, "B pppp BBBB" you win on the 4th hand with a 2-3-4 AP which is your first wager.

  Work it that way and continue on.

  AD

[AsymBacGuy]

A good post with good replies.

Imo it's quite easy to assess if we have found a kind of edge putting at work a given system.

First we need a decent sample and we can even manipulate it, for example reversing the EC apparitions. This ploy is very important at baccarat where chances are not equally probable.

Secondly W must come out more streaky than singled and the opposite about the L part. (Obviously the same concept applies on any streak or single class depending on which W or L side we are considering)

Third, if we use a progression, winning spots taken on a given X level must be unproportionally more prevalent than superior X+1 winning spots.

In reality any gambling game seen from the house side point of view itlr will follow those guidelines, so we should be in good shape knowing to have gotten the perfect or almost perfect opposite statistical situation.

as.





   

[ADulay]

For those of you who are still working and testing this play, here's my shoe from today.

Comments were added during the transcription as the original gets really messy at the desk.

AD

[Nickmsi]

Yes, AsymBacGuy, good discussions and replies, even though mostly about baccarat on this site.  I do have much more of VDW for roulette as it has many more betting options than just P or B.

Adulay, your results still going strong.

I plan do some live roulette VDW at the Mohegan Sun, CT.  I will be there from June 12th to June 24th.

If anyone in the area at that time, I would love to meet and discuss Bots, VDW etc.

Cheers

Nick

[Bayes]

"If this is steadily increasing then there's a good chance you may have something"

I assume this means if you have a steadily increasing graph that would indicate we might be on to something.

Take a look at the attached 4 graphs.  They are for about 90,000 spins each.  Assuming these were for 90,000 placed bets, would this be the type of steadily increasing profits that you would associate with an "Edge"?

Actually I was thinking of the z-score increasing, but since they correlate with each other it amounts to the same thing. 

[plolp]

Hello
I have been following with interest the topic
you will help me a lot if you share the following information

You really will help me a lot
if you have all 512 combinations win / loss results

thanks in advance

with respect BETJACK

to respond to the question a bit more detailed

all figures 9 starting with  :  BBB =+64


all figures 9 starting with  : RRR  = +64

all figures 9 starting with   : BRB  =  0

                                             RBR =  0

                                           : BBR = -64

                                           : RRB = -64   

                                           : BRR = 0

                                           : RBB  = 0

Total = 0 

In other words if you play the reverse  of vdw  you get the same result

[bbbbbb128]

Hi Nick

what sort of money management will you advise for such stable EC bets?
the W can come in between L or LL

i am thinking using 1-1-1-2-2-4-4-8-8
2 W in a row will result in +1 unit
what do you think?

[ADulay]

Hi Nick

what sort of money management will you advise for such stable EC bets?
the W can come in between L or LL

i am thinking using 1-1-1-2-2-4-4-8-8
2 W in a row will result in +1 unit
what do you think?

Chasing for a "double" would be akin to running a Martingale on this particular play.

I've reviewed my last 15 shoes played under VDW/AD and one shoe actually went 15 or so before a "double" hit.  Lots of singles in there, but no double win.  There we also many runs where you would be making that eight level wager albeit winning it, but it's still on the steep side of the wagering curve.

Also for those who may be machine testing this, you may want to run it manually for a few days to "see" what combinations look good.  The "one sided" 147AP is a particularly good wager. 

This VDW, in any variation NEEDS some runs of 3 or more although the runs of singles (ZZ runs) also work well.

If you get to the 9th level, there is no sense in making a wager as either side clears the solution for a win so that would be pointless.  The same goes for a losing 258AP.  Just start over at that point.

This has been working out in live play quite nicely.  I believe part of the success is that it does not wager on every hand but tends to seek out selective patterns to play.  Obviously any 123 type bet jumps out at you but when those lose, then you get to pick at the remaining AP's for one that will fit the expected outcome.   Surprisingly I've found that the single sided 147AP is the MOST productive to date.

Anyway, these are just some things to look for if you've decided to put any time in serious work with this play.

AD

[whopper1967]

Hi all, I have been playing around with VDW on baccarat for a few days and a question arose. I know that there are times when there is the possibility of both a player and banker based AP being completed on the same step which makes for a no bet situation due to ambiguity....My question is about the times when a single side bet will actually complete two AP's at the same time, for example when a bet on banker may complete a 1-3-5 and a 3-4-5 for at the same time. Would this still be considered a bet since it actually completes two different progressions with the same bet? I have been playing to where it does but wanted to see what others thought about it....thanks all.

[ADulay]

Hi all, I have been playing around with VDW on baccarat for a few days and a question arose. I know that there are times when there is the possibility of both a player and banker based AP being completed on the same step which makes for a no bet situation due to ambiguity....My question is about the times when a single side bet will actually complete two AP's at the same time, for example when a bet on banker may complete a 1-3-5 and a 3-4-5 for at the same time. Would this still be considered a bet since it actually completes two different progressions with the same bet? I have been playing to where it does but wanted to see what others thought about it....thanks all.

Whopper,

  That's the way I've been playing it.   Either AP that completes the requirement will do.

  Also, when I run into a wagering situation where both sides result in a tie wager (towards the end) I just revert back to the closest "BB" or "PP" and restart from there. 

  AD

[Nickmsi]

Yes Whopper and Adulay, that is the way I would play it as well.

A completed AP is a completed AP no matter if 1-3-5 or 3-4-5.

Cheers

Nick

[whopper1967]

Thanks folks...It is also my understanding that if you hit a 1-2-3 in the first three hands of a series that you may go ahead and count the very next hand as hand one again and start over correct?....thanks again.

[Nickmsi]

Yes, whopper . .

After you complete an AP you start another cycle.

Thanks

Nick

[sqzbox]

If you are using a VdW strategy then it is perfectly valid to use the hand that just completed a cycle as the first hand in a new cycle. This is because the theorem applies to any consecutive 9 outcomes. It is perfectly valid maths-wise and reduces your wait time a little.