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[ADulay]

Good question Trbfla . . .

Is there any advantage to betting ONLY when we have 2 of the same AP forming at same time, such as 1-3-5 and 3-4-5 or 2-4-6 and 4-5-6, etc.

I tested it 2 ways:

1.  If there was a completed AP before the "synced" pair occurred, then start a new cycle.

2.  Just play for the "synced" pair every time no matter if a completed AP would have occurred.

The results were about the same.  The graph is attached.

Besides poor results there were very few opportunities to bet.

Be glad to test any other ideas or tweaks you can think of.

Cheers

Nick

Excellent.  Thanks for picking that one up and running it.

Saves ME a bunch of wasted time!!

AD

[TheLaw]

Progressions are always tempting, but ultimately, flat-betting is king.

Flat betting allows much higher bets at a table without drawing unnecessary attention.

Also, a cover bet is always an option if betting options are sparse..........again, keeps the eye-in-the-sky away.

[Trbfla]

Thanks Nick. Say can you run a test using a 1-2-4-8 progression and if a mutual bet comes along just stop the progression and start the next cycle with a 1 bet? Curious to see how that holds up.
Maybe a second test too please but this time after a mutual bet continue progression on the next cycle?
Thanks

[Nickmsi]

Hi Trbfla . . .

I continued the first progression and it ultimately tanked.

Picture attached.

Flat Betting (as TheLaw suggests) has been the best so far, however, I will give your suggestion a try just to see how it does.

Cheers

NIck

[bbbbbb128]

Hi Nick

How do you handle the The Mutual Bet in your tests?
do you skip it or ?

[Trbfla]

Thanks Nick for running that

[james]

BBPPBBPPB- You lose 7 bets in a row betting DBL and only 4 bets betting VDW.
BBBBBBBBB- You win 7 bets in a row betting DBL and also 7 betting VDW.
BPBPBPBPB- You win 7 bets in a row betting DBL and only 5 betting VDW.

In the final analysis all bet selections are 50/50. However, since less bets are placed in VDW the theoretical loss will be less. Thanks to all those who are trying to tweak VDW to get positive expectation.

[Nickmsi]

Hi Trbfla . . .

I finished running 2 progression tests.  The results shown in the attachment.

The graph on left was tested with a full martingale progression but it reset to 1 unit on any mutual bet.

The graph on left was tested with a 1-2-4-8 martingale that reset to 1 unit on any mutual bet or when bet hit 8 units.

Cheers

Nick

[Nickmsi]

Hi Mark, bbbbbb128

Mark is pointing out that this method is not the Holy Grail and he is correct.  However, it is one of the safest, most consistent and stable bet selections I have ever found.

A few weeks ago at the Mohegan Sun, Ct,  my brother and I played baccarat for the first time.  We flat betted and In 1 1/2 hours we doubled our meager $100 buy in.   It was fun and easy.  No Stress.

With this thread I hope to expose more people to a new way of playing roulette/baccarat.

The question is can we improve this basic VDW system?

Some of your suggestions might lead us to a better method.  Like, bbbbbb128 asked "how do we handle the Mutual Bets".

Right now we skip (no bet) when there is a Mutual bet and start a new cycle.

But what if we bet instead of skip?

What would you bet?  Would it help to bet just one side, like banker or Red for the entire cycle?

Could we bet both Banker & Player for first 4 hands and then bet just one of them for the last 5 hands of the cycle? Or vice versa?

Could we bet all 3 EC instead of just one in roulette?

Would be bet all 3 EC Independent of each other or dependent on each other?

Could we bet something other than an EC?

Just food for thought.
Cheers

NIck

[Trbfla]

Nick thanks again for running those. Did you run it just on a 9 cycle until a winner or mutual bet?

On the one on the left, it looks to continue to climb

[Justme]

The question is can we improve this basic VDW system?

Some of your suggestions might lead us to a better method.  Like, bbbbbb128 asked "how do we handle the Mutual Bets".

Right now we skip (no bet) when there is a Mutual bet and start a new cycle.

But what if we bet instead of skip?

What would you bet?  Would it help to bet just one side, like banker or Red for the entire cycle?

Could we bet both Banker & Player for first 4 hands and then bet just one of them for the last 5 hands of the cycle? Or vice versa?

Could we bet all 3 EC instead of just one in roulette?

Would be bet all 3 EC Independent of each other or dependent on each other?

Could we bet something other than an EC?

Just food for thought.
Cheers

NIck

Nick, you are asking the right questions on getting to the best way for bet selection. 

In order to safely develop a method and "Play" any selections there are only two additional "Must Have" information:

1. What is the maximum inner drawdown per session?

2. Statistics on how many consecutive losses before a win?

With these additional pieces of the puzzle, one can create many profitable systems of play while knowing how much bankroll is needed to "Rarely or Never" Bust.

Ultimately I believe this is what some of us want to do with VDW.

I'm wondering if you can use your rare programming talents and include the above two into the results?

Thank you again for working so hard on this.

Justin

[Nickmsi]

Hi Trbfla. .  the bot played the entire 9 spin cycle every time except for when it hit the Profit Target of 1 unit then it would start a new cycle.

Hi Justme, yes those are important statistics to have.  Since this is Flat Betting, the maximum drawdown is the difference between the HIGH and the LOW as shown on the bot.  The HIGH is the highest value achieved and the LOW is the lowest amount.  So if High = 40 and Low = (-30) then you can assume your bankroll should be about 70 units.

I cannot get you the statistics as to how many losses in a row you will achieve.  The main excel sheet I use is only 9 rows and we keep starting a new sheet every time we get a profit or loss.

I am sure Vic can add it to the bot somewhere but right now he is busy packaging the NicBot for release and I am not going to stop him as it has already been 2 years in the making.

Cheers

Nick

[Trbfla]

I am testing that out and it seems to be working but I am using a progression. When I have a mutual bet, the side that losses becomes my new AP until it completes a cycle. I don't see mutual bets that often. I wanna see how it holds up against my other method of just accepting the loss on my progression and restart the progression on a new cycle

[Nickmsi]

"Congrats on your live trial BTW......"

Thanks Mark . . . The casino had a live roulette dealer and a live baccarat dealer, back to back in the same pit.  They were surrounded by 24 video stations so we could choose either to play and with the roulette being Double Zero we chose baccarat.  We went back the next day and it was closed due to some malfunctioning machines. Yuch.

Thanks for your idea of playing the mutual bets.  I know most of you don't have the tools to test like I do, so I am posting the results of a quick 25,000 spin test.

What I tested was playing VDW on NZ roulette for all 3 EC and if a mutual bet occurred we would bet a Double Dozen.  All flat bets.

Now you can see that betting something when a mutual bet occurs might be another way to go.

Trbfla,  I am not sure what you are doing, can you explain further?  Thanks

Cheers
NIck

[albertojonas]

Simply amazing, Congratulations