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[TheLaw]

Hi Mark, bbbbbb128

Mark is pointing out that this method is not the Holy Grail and he is correct.  However, it is one of the safest, most consistent and stable bet selections I have ever found.

A few weeks ago at the Mohegan Sun, Ct,  my brother and I played baccarat for the first time.  We flat betted and In 1 1/2 hours we doubled our meager $100 buy in.   It was fun and easy.  No Stress.

With this thread I hope to expose more people to a new way of playing roulette/baccarat.

The question is can we improve this basic VDW system?

Some of your suggestions might lead us to a better method.  Like, bbbbbb128 asked "how do we handle the Mutual Bets".

Right now we skip (no bet) when there is a Mutual bet and start a new cycle.

But what if we bet instead of skip?

What would you bet?  Would it help to bet just one side, like banker or Red for the entire cycle?

Could we bet both Banker & Player for first 4 hands and then bet just one of them for the last 5 hands of the cycle? Or vice versa?

Could we bet all 3 EC instead of just one in roulette?

Would be bet all 3 EC Independent of each other or dependent on each other?

Could we bet something other than an EC?

Just food for thought.
Cheers

NIck

Just had a thought about this :

If this is a stable enough betting selection, then shouldn't the right MM + progression turn it into a winner.

I'm thinking something very conservative like flat bet until you're behind a certain number of units.......then raise by 1 unit........then implement an extended divisor method in case things get ugly.

Either a conservative approach should win with this bet selection..........or the bet selection is simply not that stable.

[Blood Angel]

I would imagine Lanky's 6 point divisor would work well with this as it is.

[ADulay]

Quick question if you don't mind.  Were you playing as you originally indicated with a reset after a win or did you go with -2 stop loss before resetting?

I'm not sure of what the question is but I was simply flat betting each wager.   I was only attempting to see if the play is viable with the waiting from time to time for the appropriate AP to show up to wager on.

AD

[TheLaw]

I'm not sure of what the question is but I was simply flat betting each wager.   I was only attempting to see if the play is viable with the waiting from time to time for the appropriate AP to show up to wager on.

AD

I think he's asking about the stop-loss that you added to play after the initial larger tests by Nickmsi failed to show a profit with flat betting only.

The charts with -1 and/or -2 stop loss (then restart a new game), were the only ones that showed a profit without a progression.

So still flat betting with an added -2 stop loss then restart new game. Is that correct?

Also, how was the waiting time between bets?

Thanks!

[Ehtelgaeb]

I think he's asking about the stop-loss that you added to play after the initial larger tests by Nickmsi failed to show a profit with flat betting only.

The charts with -1 and/or -2 stop loss (then restart a new game), were the only ones that showed a profit without a progression.

So still flat betting with an added -2 stop loss then restart new game. Is that correct?

Yes, this is what I was asking.  Evidently not.

Adulay please check your PM.

[plolp]

No benefit was found for now (with the VdW) So, what are you talking about?

[Trbfla]

I have now completed 14 live shoes had have yet to have a losing shoe

[TheLaw]

Hello Justme . . .

When I tested for the Stop Losses, I started a new cycle every time it hit the Stop Loss setting.  So if Stop Loss set a (-1) then at the first loss we would start a new cycle.

A Stop Loss of (-2) would mean we had a loss of -1 followed by another loss of (-1) OR we first had a loss of (-1) then a Win of (+1) and then and then we had 2 losses in a row.

The same is true for the Profit Target.  Almost all the time the Profit Target is set for (+1) so at first profit we start a new cycle.

Yes I did test 100 sessions of 3,000 spins and the results below.  A Stop Loss of (-2) was better than (-1).

Cheers

Nick

From post #145.......attached chart appears to win flat betting with stop-loss in place........unless I'm missing something.(I think it's no zero simulation)

[ADulay]

Yes, this is what I was asking.  Evidently not.

Adulay please check your PM.

OK, now I see what you're asking.   I was working with the 1-2 loop but have since gone back to flat betting VDW.   Comparing several previous shoes and running them both ways, the outcomes were nearly identical.

AD

[ADulay]

Can you post the shoe please.

Here ya go.

AD

[TheLaw]

OK, now I see what you're asking.   I was working with the 1-2 loop but have since gone back to flat betting VDW.   Comparing several previous shoes and running them both ways, the outcomes were nearly identical.

AD

.......but I thought that only flat-betting VDW loses over the long-run.

Didn't Nickmisi's charts show this as a losing method without MM or progression?

Thanks AD!

[Trbfla]

So AD, you are always going back 2 steps after a win to restart? This would work great on streaky shoes but not sure how it does at choppy with 2s and 1s

[james]

Thanks for posting the shoe.
Decision 26 is shown as a win betting on P. Actually this is a mutual bet. You can bet on P based on decisions 24 and 25 or bet on B based on decisions 20 and 23.
Decision 27 is shown as a win betting on P. This is also a mutual bet. You can bet on P based on decisions 25 and 26 or bet on B based on decisions 19 and 23.

[ADulay]

Thanks for posting the shoe.
Decision 26 is shown as a win betting on P. Actually this is a mutual bet. You can bet on P based on decisions 24 and 25 or bet on B based on decisions 20 and 23.
Decision 27 is shown as a win betting on P. This is also a mutual bet. You can bet on P based on decisions 25 and 26 or bet on B based on decisions 19 and 23.

James,

  On any mutual wager I always take the streak.  234, 345, etc.

  Just my own decision in an attempt to standardize play.

  AD

[ADulay]

So AD, you are always going back 2 steps after a win to restart? This would work great on streaky shoes but not sure how it does at choppy with 2s and 1s

After a win I will "look back" for the first available "1-2" and start there.

It saves searching for a valid restart and segues nicely into all streaks.

The same goes for something like a 2-4-6 win.  If you'll look at it on paper, it's a very nice ZZ run with the next logical wager being 3-5-7 etc.   Just continue on the ZZ until it loses and then restart right there with the resulting 1-2.

AD