Has anyone on this site use baccarat buster2 ? I was looking for software and came across this seems interesting. Please only serious responses. Yes I am a real casino dealer.
I have this bit of kit and I really like it. They have a deal on at the moment knocking 33% of the price if you buy the download version. So it comes in at $99.00
There are loads of different features for playing, high speed testing, crunching the stats etc...
One of the main selling points is that you can choose to have the cards shuffled anyway you like. So it mimics what you would expect to get in a real life B+M Casino. I used to test loads of systems (admittedly not over a large enough sample) on random.org which performed brilliantly. Took them to the Casino and they fell down pretty quickly a lot of the time.
Anyway, I will try and show a few of the features of this software in more detail over the coming week.
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cheers
Looks like a good baccarat software - maybe i should buy a copy - at the moment i use RX for simulations.
Cheers
Here is the 'High Speed Testing Feature'
You can get as many shoes as you want quickly.
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cheers
Hello Bally6354 - does it has a summary for placed bets with peaks and drawdowns charts - does it have overall graph over winning and loses when you play by hand - what else does it do ...
This look like a very good simulation tool.
Cheers
Hello Sputnik,
It does have a very comprehensive Session Analysis page with a lot of different features. However, it doesn't have the peaks and drawdowns chart similar to the extreme roulette software.
Here are a few pics of some of the features from the analysis page after I ran 5 shoes.
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More than enough different features to see what's going on below the surface.
They used to offer a free 7 day evaluation copy from the 'myupperhand' website. Unfortunately that didn't work when I tried to download it. Maybe they have fixed it now. They are easy to reach though and pretty helpful.
cheers
Another nice feature is the 'Best Bets' results.
[attachimg=1]
I ran 50 shoes this time (took a few minutes)
The top result was betting for P after PBPP
PBPP happened 142 times in the 50 shoes and you would have won 84 times and lost 58 times betting for a P to follow for a gain of +26.
It will be interesting to run multiple batches of 50 shoes and see if anything repeats up near the top on a consistent basis. You could argue it shouldn't playing in a random fashion. Who knows?
That's me finished plugging this bit of kit, lol. However, if anybody wants any stats pulling up and I can do it, ask and you will get it.
cheers
I have it and the difficulty I had is that if you have a complex set of rules there are limitations. That is, the rules you set up can only go so deep. It would be great to expand this so there are much higher limits.
Please believe if nothing else!
Stats, research, playing with different possibilities and all that. All great, fun, interesting, etc.
But, just remember one thing if nothing else.
What you are doing no matter in groups of 25, 50, 100 or 5,000 shoes or whatever the number---will not be represented at the B&M casino real-life wagering table. Even if you find a 90% something or heck, a 100% something. Those shoes played will not be the shoes in a casino.
With that said, research and familiarity with what can happen----great, yes. Convince yourself you found the possible holy0grail because a machine told you so---you will go broke 100%--how quick or how long before that happens, don't know--but it will happen because you will be looking for something that exists, just doesn't exists in the order being dealt out by the bank that has to pay it out.
QuoteWhat you are doing no matter in groups of 25, 50, 100 or 5,000 shoes or whatever the number---will not be represented at the B&M casino real-life wagering table. Even if you find a 90% something or heck, a 100% something.
This is not true - i don't use patterns and i explore the bias using different states - they can come as tiny, medium or large waves of events - and the same is happen in my local casino where i play.
There is no difference when you measuring results from real casino from games like Baccarat, Craps, Roulette. The states with the bias events is the same and not different in any way.
So i can compare any RNG results or TRNG results with Real Casino Results and there is no difference.
If i did not have the ability to study and search and measuring random bits before real play i would not play - as i would not have any expectation when placing my bets.
But i can agree that the simulation software above does not all function you need and the common way to look at stats does not make you a winner.
Cheers
Quote from: Sputnik on March 13, 2017, 04:24:07 AM
This is not true - i don't use patterns and i explore the bias using different states - they can come as tiny, medium or large waves of events - and the same is happen in my local casino where i play.
There is no difference when you measuring results from real casino from games like Baccarat, Craps, Roulette. The states with the bias events is the same and not different in any way.
So i can compare any RNG results or TRNG results with Real Casino Results and there is no difference.
If i did not have the ability to study and search and measuring random bits before real play i would not play - as i would not have any expectation when placing my bets.
But i can agree that the simulation software above does not all function you need and the common way to look at stats does not make you a winner.
Cheers
Stats are stats. Won't change for those shoes you ran or played live.
What I am saying and I know I am not wrong, is that the order of the shoes--meaning the order of the events that happened, will not and cannot be the same at the table in a B&M. That cannot change, correct me if I am wrong--PLEASE.
So you sit down and you find a 70%-80% stat. What is the assurance you will sit down with real money in a B&M and those same prevailing hands come in any kind of order. You can very well be sitting down at the continuous 30%-30% time at the tables waiting for those stats to come forward.
I don't have this program, I might very well get it?? But I have ran other stats myself and had many 'programmers' do it with programs as well.
With stats, I don't see how you can get a 'rock-solid' result that can be wagered on that will (WILL) prevail time after time.
Let me explain what I am getting at.
1) I agree with you that the stats will be the same, even 100% the same and will prevail the exact same if those shoes were instantly transferred to a casino you were able to wager on. However, the order of the cards, the shuffle, the cut and the back cut reserved cards will generally all be different.
2) Because of a different order of cards coming out to form hands, those 25 or 50 or 250 shoes you ran on the program test will alter from the results of the ones being played live. It has to be, the order of the cards cannot produce the same (SAME) results, impossible. At times, might appear close or even a section or two with the same, but not the entire shoe or shoe after shoe. Utterly impossible.
3) If you stats of 50 shoes say, produced a number of 60% there will be a Player after P-B-P-P, etc., it was produced because of a certain order of the cards that came out, that same order will not be the definitive result at the live B&M casino shoe after shoe. Cannot be and will not be.
4) If you have the same shuffle with the same order of cards, the same cut point, the same amount of cards reserved in the rear, the order should be the same each and every time because there are no optional draws. However, once you change the shuffle, the order of cards and the cut point--the order of the hands being made will change. There might and there might not be coincidences but to get the same result of certain outcomes, shoe after shoe would be utterly impossible.
Again, research-exploring-familiarization with results and variance, etc., are all good. When you start attempting to find key trigger because of a computer program is producing 'so and so' slightly more than 50% of the time, I think it is a far fetch of wishful thinking anyone is trying to transfer from program to casino.
Quote from: Bally6354 on March 12, 2017, 01:04:03 PM
Another nice feature is the 'Best Bets' results.
[attachimg=1]
I ran 50 shoes this time (took a few minutes)
The top result was betting for P after PBPP
PBPP happened 142 times in the 50 shoes and you would have won 84 times and lost 58 times betting for a P to follow for a gain of +26.
It will be interesting to run multiple batches of 50 shoes and see if anything repeats up near the top on a consistent basis. You could argue it shouldn't playing in a random fashion. Who knows?
That's me finished plugging this bit of kit, lol. However, if anybody wants any stats pulling up and I can do it, ask and you will get it.
cheers
I have sat shoe after shoe and have seen rare 3's on the Player in that scenario. Then at other times there was plenty of 3's, yes. I could not tell you the stats on each and every time that I played, of course not. However, I do watch the '3'rd spot enournoumesly because it is a key trigger with many--either repeating or cutting on the possible 3rd repeat.
On the lighter side, if a player had one, possibly two key triggers such as this, and he could refrain himself from any other wagers in a B&M (I think extremely hard and next to impossible) but yes it is down once in a while, the advantage would raise in your favor no matter what the scenario was you choose to believe in and wager on.
There is a lot more to winning key triggers or favorable wagers than the stat themselves. Their are psychological and variance that will always come into play that the gambler has absolutely little to control over except not playing.
Alrelax, you have made some good points and I think you are right of course that it would be dangerous to go into a casino with a pre-planned notion of looking for specific triggers. I did that many years ago when playing roulette and it worked well until it didn't. :(
I wrote a post in my blog titled 'The Law of Disproportionate Occurrence'. One of my favourite quotes from that text is the following.
''Though the whole is still equal to the sum of its parts, the parts themselves are not simply abbreviated versions of that whole.'' This sums up my philosophy towards any game any of chance. It's just a matter of using whatever tools/concepts you have at your disposal to identify the strong plays that are currently happening and dip your toe in the water to see if it continues. Crunching the stats to see that different theories are possible is encouraging.
cheers
Quote from: Bally6354 on March 13, 2017, 07:47:37 AM
Alrelax, you have made some good points and I think you are right of course that it would be dangerous to go into a casino with a pre-planned notion of looking for specific triggers. I did that many years ago when playing roulette and it worked well until it didn't. :(
I wrote a post in my blog titled 'The Law of Disproportionate Occurrence'. One of my favourite quotes from that text is the following.
''Though the whole is still equal to the sum of its parts, the parts themselves are not simply abbreviated versions of that whole.'' This sums up my philosophy towards any game any of chance. It's just a matter of using whatever tools/concepts you have at your disposal to identify the strong plays that are currently happening and dip your toe in the water to see if it continues. Crunching the stats to see that different theories are possible is encouraging.
cheers
Yes 100% to a point AGREE!
I wrote it more the protection of those that would go buy the program and invest lots of cash to 'win' that easy money. People get side tracked from reality merging info/data from others and themselves into ammunition to make easy $$$ at the casino.
Sure (SURE) 1,000,000% I have triggers that stick like glue at times, and other times those same exact trigger are going like a group of street walking prostitutes in NYC on the west side when a blue and white NYPD car rolls down the street and they hear that warning whistle from their pimp. Same, no different.
Would be nice to get a real world stat on the following:
After a Fortune 7 (Banker winning with a 3 card total of 7) what is the next hand, Banker or Player?
I have been involved in discussions with a good dealer at a casino that is also a baccarat player at other casinos. He claims, he says that he wagers an entire Fortune 7 win on the Banker for the next hand after the F-7 appeared. He says, he prevails at it numerous times. No stats of course. I have seen and witnessed the highest majority of the hands following an F-7 cut to Player. Of course, I play at the tiniest trivial amount of casinos and time as compared to all the casinos 24/7.
The real kicker is, the past several weeks, there has been more and more continuing Bankers after an F-7 at this particular casino, where he works and I play. We have been involved in this discussion for about 4-5 months now I think. I am very conscious of this because after I hit an F-7 win, I would normally wager about 20-25% of the F-7 win on the Banker with max on the F-7 for a back-to-back F-7 or at least a continuing Bankers with a nickel or two out tot he side for the dealer on each the F-7 and the Banker.
Can anyone run this scenario?
Would like to see what 500-1,000 or 5,000 shoes or more produces for this.
Would be nice to get a real world stat on the following:
After a Fortune 7 (Banker winning with a 3 card total of 7) what is the next hand, Banker or Player?
I have been involved in discussions with a good dealer at a casino that is also a baccarat player at other casinos. He claims, he says that he wagers an entire Fortune 7 win on the Banker for the next hand after the F-7 appeared. He says, he prevails at it numerous times. No stats of course. I have seen and witnessed the highest majority of the hands following an F-7 cut to Player. Of course, I play at the tiniest trivial amount of casinos and time as compared to all the casinos 24/7.
The real kicker is, the past several weeks, there has been more and more continuing Bankers after an F-7 at this particular casino, where he works and I play. We have been involved in this discussion for about 4-5 months now I think. I am very conscious of this because after I hit an F-7 win, I would normally wager about 20-25% of the F-7 win on the Banker with max on the F-7 for a back-to-back F-7 or at least a continuing Bankers with a nickel or two out tot he side for the dealer on each the F-7 and the Banker.
Can anyone run this scenario?
Would like to see what 500-1,000 or 5,000 shoes or more produces for this.
Alrelax, Here are 100 shoes with all the card values and results. Pretty neat to check out what you are looking for. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Bally6354 on March 13, 2017, 09:15:52 AM
Alrelax, Here are 100 shoes with all the card values and results. Pretty neat to check out what you are looking for. :thumbsup:
You mean I have to read through the entire list and make notes as to the hand following an F-7 win if it winds up being P or B???
Yes, it snowed here all day yesterday and last night, the guys are clearing our parking lot with our front end loader and a skid steer, I am not going out there! But can do other things inside, LOL. Lord, I thought this was an EZ program for say, XYZ times Banker or XYC times Player after an F-7??
It's not that bad, lol. ;D
They do a good layout really. Pretty easy to read and go through it quickly.
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Ted's in the middle of Cambodia in the jungle looking for snakes to fry up for my upcoming trip, maybe I can delegate this to him to spend some time inside studying?? ;)
My mind doesn't grasp programming or system testing I assume.
Personally have no idea what the 11's-12's and 13's are in one card spots????
As well the number next to the P or B final on the extreme right??
The 10, 11, 12 and 13's are just face cards.
So looking at hand 9. First player card '10' = 0. Second player card '11' = 0. Third player card '2'. So the total player hand = 2.
The bank had a 5, 6 and 2 for a total of 3. So bank wins 3 vs 2. The winner B or P is located at the far right hand side. The number to its direct left is the final bank score.
LOL, talking about snake, I was offered a snake meal yesterday and no thank you..
I saw our Hollywood star eating crickets and whatsnot, I am not ready to eat those stuff yet..
I want thank everyone who is genuinely helping the members like me learn how to be a better player. Special thanks to Alrelax as well for your continuous contributions to help members like me.
I have concluded that to be a consistent winner, I must have the knowledge and skill and apply them at the tables when I play. Sufficient bankroll is also important but without the knowledge and skill, bankroll alone won't help.
Cheers!!
Quote from: alrelax on March 13, 2017, 10:05:27 AM
Ted's in the middle of Cambodia in the jungle looking for snakes to fry up for my upcoming trip, maybe I can delegate this to him to spend some time inside studying?? ;)
QuoteStats are stats. Won't change for those shoes you ran or played live.
What I am saying and I know I am not wrong, is that the order of the shoes--meaning the order of the events that happened, will not and cannot be the same at the table in a B&M. That cannot change, correct me if I am wrong--PLEASE.
So you sit down and you find a 70%-80% stat. What is the assurance you will sit down with real money in a B&M and those same prevailing hands come in any kind of order. You can very well be sitting down at the continuous 30%-30% time at the tables waiting for those stats to come forward.
My perspective is not same as yours - i measuring the periodic events or average bias length of states - and my expectation is the same in real casino when i target short bias states to win ...
I can also predict what coming next with conditional values where one past state include at least one event out of two into the future event and is not only happening with RNG or TRNG it happens in a real casino ...
So your point is another and i don't use patterns or common stats - i base my game on Ecart or Z-Score values that show me the strength behind bias states.
There will always be a debate about opportune times and repetitiveness of stats whether from a computer such as we are talking about or previous games at the same B&M, etc.
I personally ran the Fortune 7 question I proposed earlier this morning.
In some ways close to a B&M and in some ways not so close. But then again, if you play long enough you will see it all. Such as times I have played no Fortune 7's for 7 entire shoes and well into the 8th. Then series of shoes with only 1, maybe 2 F-7's and then 4 to 6 in each shoe. So, yes---when and if, certainly applies 100%.
I ran through the pages quickly up to about hand 4200 which should equate right around 52.5 shoes.
69 Total F-7's.
Bankers prevailing after an F-7=41 Times
Players prevailing after an F-7=28 Times
I did not mark down how many shoes had B only or P only after an F-7, that would be another way to look at it.
Hand 437 which equate to about 5.5 shoes, there was approx. 8 F-7's.
Hand 1002 which equate to about 12.5 shoes, there was approx. 21 F-7's.
From Hand 2659 to 4200 there was 23 F-7's.
31 Shoes into this series there was something that mimicked something that happened to me almost exactly a few weeks that I wrote about, that Back to Back F-7 I experienced for the first time.
I believe the F-7 was made and then a Tie and a repeat Tie came at. Then 4 hands later another F-7 came out and a back to back F-7 came as well. This was hand 2551 to 2558 on the sample here I downloaded of the 100 shoes.
In my B&M casino I believe I hit an F-7 about less than 10 hands after that, probably like 7 or 8 or so, there was a tie. Then my 2 Back to Back F-7's came.
I had the a great F-7 with a 'skip tie' back a couple of months ago, where I had that $50 table max on F-7 up and 3 nickels for the dealer and hit the 'Skip Fortune'. Where we had an F-7, then a tie and then another F-7. I wrote about that also if you recall.
Within this sampling of 100 shoes, I went through right at 52-53 shoes. There was several times, there was a tie immediately after the F-7. What is unique was that 3 of those ties cut to Player and another 3 ties cut to the Banker for the immediate hand after the F-7.
Quote from: Ted009 on March 13, 2017, 11:37:01 AM
LOL, talking about snake, I was offered a snake meal yesterday and no thank you..
I saw our Hollywood star eating crickets and whatsnot, I am not ready to eat those stuff yet..
I want thank everyone who is genuinely helping the members like me learn how to be a better player. Special thanks to Alrelax as well for your continuous contributions to help members like me.
I have concluded that to be a consistent winner, I must have the knowledge and skill and apply them at the tables when I play. Sufficient bankroll is also important but without the knowledge and skill, bankroll alone won't help.
Cheers!!
I know you eat that snake! It's okay big guy! The wife and her family eats some kind of bugs they put in their food at times, soup--not me, better not place them things in mine. If I am on the interstate and get a fly or something flying in my mouth I go ape-bananas! Oh well.
As far as the experience, it depends the way you use it. There will be winning and losing times. Anyone that tells you they win like the last 39 or 46 times straight, I rather not engage conversation with, I have been around casinos far too long to gossip, etc. But the real experience is to recognize the situation what is presenting itself, and when that situation is winning-that is the time to pour it on and accelerate like the devil from hell is chasing you with a fork and a fire blaze.
So Al you are asking if after a fortune 7 hit the probability to get banker the next hand is somewhat increased.
The probability to get a fortune 7 is 1 to 43.4 against; about 25% of those fortune 7s are composed by 0-0-7 (0=zero value cards) and, at a very far inferior degree 0-2-5 or 2-0-5.
Since we are betting after a very selective situation, we could argue that itlr that 7 caught by banker to hit the fortune 7 slightly reduces the probability to fall into the P side on the very next hand. And a 7 is a quite good Player first card.
Additonally, most of the time a fortune 7 is the product of a symmetrical hand (the exceptions are when B has a 6 and the third card is a 6 or 7). That means that the probability to get on the next hand an asymmetrical hand (favoring the banker) is slightly enlarged.
Of course anything could happen as card combinations are almost endless but the condition of betting in such rare circumstance again again and again might very slightly increase the probability to get another Banker hand.
Once I've read somewhere that everytime the banker stands after giving to P side an 8 or a 9 as third card (no matter the result), the probability that itlr the next hand will be Banker is slightly increased. This seems to be true.
as.
Hello Bally - i buy Baccarat Buster 2 - but did not find a download link after paying with paypal - so i email Dennis and wait for reply.
Cheers
Hello Sputnik,
Yes, when I first bought it, I remember it saying the download link would e on the Paypal page, however I couldn't find it. So I clicked back to the Upperhand.com homepage (even though I know it says not to do this) and there was the download link for the software.
Hope this helps....
cheers
Hello Bally i have now download and install baccarat buster 2.
It will take some days experimenting to learn the software :-)
Cheers
Great news! It really is a great piece of kit. As someone who used to test just about everything by hand, it really does make it more enjoyable to be able to speed through things and find what I am looking for.
Have fun with it!
Hello Bally ...
I been thinking to test the gap methodology from Holloway with a tweak and baccarat buster 2's pattern search function will do just fine to plotter the charts of the distribution.
Cheers :-)
Every single progression commonly known has an average number of hands in duration. FACT. Discovering this fact can only be approximated by observation because shoes are playing 24/7. I stopped by a house today and the tables were full - midday on a weekday.
We can take this experience and estimates and overlay playing approach and money management, etc. For example, maybe I'm missing it, but it doesn't look like this software can put in money management like stops and targets.