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[AsymBacGuy]

Still having trouble wrapping my head around this, John.  Lots of players say this.  Okay there seems to be a correlation but cause and effect?  I'd like to understand the reason less bets increase our odds of winning.

Doesn't the answer have to be that some condition exists that produces more wins than another condition?

J

The answer should be that baccarat won't produce perfect 50/50 outcomes, expecially on some "complex" derived situations.
We are mostly playing an almost 50/50 game, so the more we are betting the higher will be the probability to sink into the "random" world, a world where we cannot have any valuable hint besides the obvious short term positive variance.

Of course, limiting our betting without having properly assessed what happened in the previous spots won't make the job.
For example, always betting the 5th, 14th or 45th hand hoping to get a RTM effect or something like that.

Many shoes aren't going to produce the most expected results and I'm not going to try to stop such course, let alone trying to follow this unexpected line. I simply abandon to bet.

Such shoes, imo, are counterbalancing the ones giving the "edge" on some more expected distributions.

Giving a vulgar example, it won't exist in the history of baccarat a shoe forming a series of only  streaks. You won't find one. (at roulette you'll get many 70 hands sequence producing only streaks on certain 50/50 chances)
However, you'll get many shoes not showing a 3+ streak, expecially on P side. (a very very rare finding at roulette).
And so on about more intricated dispositions.

We shouldn't forget that at baccarat there are some key cards erasing or at least lowering the asym factor and that the game is mainly operated by a slight zigzag factor (due to card distribution).
Imo, we should let the time to have such factors operating at a degree capable to either invert the house edge or at least to get very controlled opposite scenarios. That means reducing a lot our betting, imo.

If for example we could find a -5/0/+5 steady gap, we virtually cannot lose.   

as.   

   



 

[alrelax]

Never been to LV. Never really been to a big casino for that matter. I need to make a trip to AC before it disappears I guess. But haven't heard many good things from casinos desperate for losers. So perhaps a trip to Vegas would be better.

What does it take to be a high roller in Vegas?
What kind of buy in for a roped of VIP section where your every need is catered too?
What's it take to get a suite comped?

How much do you need to bet each hand? Can I play my normal BS where I don't bet every hand?

Well as some of you know and some of you don't know, I have pretty much gambled since the Playboy Casino opened in Atlantic City.  I have experience at many properties in AC, South Florida, Connecticut, Vegas and Southern California among other places.  I had numerous pictures posted on this site and took them down because of the pouring out by a few members how this site is supposedly only for the analytical and methodical ends of gambling and not the general aspect.

I have played baccarat and black jack and other games consistently for about 30 years.  In Vegas the regular properties have been Bellagio, Mirage, Wynn, Planet Ho, RIO, Golden Nugget, CP and Red Rock.  Usually played only in their high limit rooms. 

Your questions can not be answered easily and would most certainly differ from property to property and chain to chain.  A 'high roller' or a VIP who plays at the Golden Nugget may not be one at The Bellagio or at Caesar's Palace.

The following factors are taking into consideration when determining who gets what and how much comp and what level they receive. 

Hosts (floor-desk-on duty-executive-senior vice presidents) or outside independent hosts
Weekend, Holiday, Weekdays
Have you played there before
Front Money Deposit
Credit Line pre-approved

There are other factors.  But those are the main ones that will determine how much of what you receive.  In Vegas pretty much you have the $10k to $25k/$50k/$100k/$250k/and the $500k to $1M/ and the whales above those crowds.  If you take a mean average of a high roller, meaning full comp (RFB&I) with suites (not villas, but 1 and 2 bedroom top floor suites) having a history with a property, a solid $50k to $100k front money deposit or established credit line, playing 4 plus hours per day at average wagers of well over $500.00 a hand.  Full comp means, suites, limos, airfare reimbursement, food, bottles and room set-ups (snacks, bottles, food, misc.). 

Table games generally are $100.00 and up depending on the property in their high limit rooms, but then again, that depends on what night of the week it is and if it's a holiday or not, etc.  High limit table min's are usually $100/$300/$500 or $1,000 up to $15k/$20k/$25k per hand.  This is in the main part of the high limit room.  Then there are the private saloons in the rear of the bigger properties high limit rooms, etc. 

When you say, 'every need is catered to' is very subjective and again, depends on the amount the player has on deposit or credit line or his celebrity status and so on.

$26k to $30k at most Vegas properties is not a high roller.  A consistent $50k to $100k bank roll brought in each time, average wagers of $3k and up a hand and hours of play is pretty common at most of the larger properties. 

As far as the other comments about losers get more and winners they won't let walk away because of comps, etc.  It goes like this:   Playing hours gets you the comps no matter what level you are at.  Larger wagers and larger bankrolls get you more, of course.  But someone that wagers a few hands an hour no matter the bank roll won't get as much as those wagering a regular flow of hands.  You are really not comp'ed on if you win or lose.  Sure if you win or lose very large sums quickly there might be some consideration with an immediate request.  But on an overall basis, it is the hours you are gambling at whatever the average wager you are making and the speed of the game and the house advantage computed. 

General Rule of the Thumb:

$25k to $50k B.R., off strip or down town property gets you a nice suite and nice meals, limo and a few other things.  That is with an average wager well over $300 a hand.

$50k to $100k B.R., mid strip large property with an average wager over $750 a hand gets the same thing, nice suites, food, limo, some gift shop comps, etc.

Higher play and longer hours you start talking about loss rebates, promo chips, airfare reimbursements for companions, and hard comp (off property pay outs Vs. soft comp 'on property') coming into play.

When you play at a property respectively and have a senior executive host (not a floor host or an on-duty desk host) and have average wagering at over $2,500.00 a hand, you fall into a high roller type of classification if it means anything.

More than anything is the actual relationship the player has/maintains with his host.  That is the single biggest avenue to what a player will or will not get in the way of treatment.  As well, it also depends at what level that host is at with his employer as to what he can or cannot give a player. 

Like I said, it is not easily answered across the board for all properties, there are way too many variables to plug into before someone can tell you what or what you might not get from a property. 

[AsymBacGuy]

Can't think about a better reply.

as. 

[HunchBacShrimp]

alrelax,

I appreciate your time composing such a comprehensive response. I see where my questions were too vague for any easy answer, and I thank you for the wealth of information you provided. It is exactly the information I was looking for.

A simple 'thank you ' seems inadequate for what you provided. You covered every angle, I cannot honestly think of anything else to ask. It's... well it's like I already said " exactly the information I was looking for"

It truly is greatly appreciated on my part.

HBS

[alrelax]

In addition, there are other factors and the biggest one as I mentioned in my initial response is that of one's host.  Two different hosts can comp two different players playing the exact same amounts (avg wager and game) different suites and misc.  This is because hosts operate on different plateaus.  Hosts have budgets as well as host departments have budgets to play with.  It may also be that one player brings other players or has many long time players/family playing under that host.  It may also be the a host is near the end of his quarter and trying to use up a budget or doesn't have a budget and might not want to go the extra mile for a new player to overly take care of him and properly develop the player, etc.  There are many reasons one player gets more than another when players are about the same ratings/averages.

Don't get sucked in, don't play for the comps.  If you are truly playing large and playing for the gambling, take what you can get don't seek it out and don't play over your bank roll to get something.  Most times you could have just paid for it and probably came out ahead in the long run. 

[alrelax]

I don't play games and I don't engage in childish banter and spoofing and all that stuff, period.  I was on here long before Wizard of Vegas.  Seems full time I-net people know all the tricks and trades of message board games.  As always, if you don't enjoy reading something a member says/posts you don't have to read it, you can easily block them with a stroke of a key.  Thanks.

[Sputnik]

alrelax thanks for a good read about high rollers and comp ...

Cheers

[ezmark]

I visited Vegas in 1977 ,     I trip I now look back on with appreciation.    My memories of Vegas is of old Las  Vegas,   The Trop.  went to a  show there , The

Dunes  I still have a match book from The Dunes,   The Sands,   Stardust,  C's Palace was really something different in its day.   Downtown,  Four Queens,

Golden Nugget, etc.    There were  still open vast spaces and parking lots between casinos on the strip. I remember seeing Gabe Kaplan in the Stardust  back

when he had the fro hair style  being ushered around the craps area by two or three big guys in suits.  I think he was performing there as well.  I'm not sure

if I want to go back to Vegas. There's no way to top these memories. 

[alrelax]

Yep!  The Desert Inn and the Sands.  Spent lots of time at those.  Before The Wynn and The Venetian. The old Tropicana, C.P. and The Aladdin before Planet Ho.  I have a huge 4 X 5 foot custom framed shadow box of many Desert Inn items from the 80's and the 90's, the pics used to be posted on here--maybe you seen them.  Great memories of a great time in Vegas.