Hello Baccarat players! Somebody hear about NOR baccarat system? Is that really working? It's very important if somebody had experience.
Cheers.
I heard from somebody they are making money with it. This is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ6ox2lB488&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Quote from: Dilon on December 24, 2013, 12:52:30 PM
Hello Baccarat players! Somebody hear about NOR system baccarat? That really working? Very important if somebody had experience.
Cheers.
Dilon,
Have you gone to their site and asked about it in the public area?
AD
I read in their site but in their owned site we can only leave positive information, that's why i'm asking here in neutral zone.
ADulay do you know about that?
Cheers.
Dilon,
I am hardly "neutral" on NOR as I play it. Or at least my version of it.
NOR attempts to identify specific traits in the shoe and then exploit them.
There is a good amount of background information that must be learned before attempting to play NOR at pretty much any level.
AD
NOR is as much a failure or success as anything in this market. It may win, it may lose.
ADulay are you playing with progression like on this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v5WEwz7WwRo
I think NOR is not losing method.
Quote from: Albalaha on December 25, 2013, 06:44:30 AM
NOR is as much a failure or success as anything in this market. It may win, it may lose.
Al,
Have you much experience with NOR?
AD
Quote from: Dilon on December 28, 2013, 12:03:56 AM
ADulay are you playing with progression like on this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v5WEwz7WwRo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v5WEwz7WwRo)
I think NOR is not losing method.
Dilon,
I didn't watch the video. What progression is he using?
AD
He is betting on before last result and using 1-2-4 prog
Quote from: Dilon on December 28, 2013, 01:35:27 AM
He is betting on before last result and using 1-2-4 prog
Darn it. That doesn't sound right.
Now I'm going to have to go and watch it to see what's happening.
AD
Quote from: ADulay on December 25, 2013, 04:29:57 AM
There is a good amount of background information that must be learned before attempting to play NOR at pretty much any level.
AD
This is a very good piece of advice.
And I wouldn't dream of just playing NOR with a 1-2-4 marty, far too many terrible twins (i.e.ppbbpp) runs for that.
Cheers
Rog
Simple question from a baccarat dunce
Are all baccarat shoes still drawn and shuffled by the dealer....or are there some CSM auto shuffle..
Quote from: rogerdog on December 28, 2013, 08:00:29 AM
This is a very good piece of advice.
And I wouldn't dream of just playing NOR with a 1-2-4 marty, far too many terrible twins (i.e.ppbbpp) runs for that.
Cheers
Rog
Roger,
Actually NOR does quite well with the "Terrible Twos".
A shoe full of "twos" is just what I'm looking for!
AD
Quote from: ADulay on December 28, 2013, 03:42:13 PM
Roger,
Actually NOR does quite well with the "Terrible Twos".
A shoe full of "twos" is just what I'm looking for!
AD
Sorry AD, I didn't watch the video fully and thought the OP was playing TB4L only.
Yes, NOR can do well with "twos". I think it does need study and practice though to decide what to play when. And I also try to play with a bit of intuition, though perhaps I'm kidding myself there! :-)
Rog
"... though perhaps I'm kidding myself there!"
You might indeed. (Bit like intuition when tossing coins...LOL)
On the other hand, if someone has a well-developed 6th sense then their intuition is often very valid.
I know several pro and amateur players, I like making money guys using variations of NOR---you're just going into a shoe and following till you hit a streak
ADulay are you playing flatbetting?
esoito
"if someone has a well-developed 6th sense"
Your statement infers that is is possible to develop a 6th sense. How do I do that stuff?
Samster
Quote from: TwoCatSam on December 29, 2013, 08:02:09 PM
esoito
"if someone has a well-developed 6th sense"
Your statement infers that is is possible to develop a 6th sense.
LOL...No inference intended!
I should have added the words "if someone has been born with a well-developed 6th sense" which is what I had in mind.
How do I do that stuff?
Mr Google will reveal all sorts of interesting sites in that regard.
The old story -- for some it will work; for some it won't.
Samster
I don't believe that this NOR is something special.
I test two methods by Ellis in the past and they did not impress at all.
I think NOR system need play Hit and Run.
I played NOR back in the summer of 2011..I think that it was the pre-release manual or something. NOR probably has changed a lot since them, as all of the BTC systems seem to go through cycles of revisions. So I don't know anything about current NOR system. And personally, I'm not really interested...I found the 2011 model to contain too much switching.
Check out this posting that I just made over at the labs...it's called "The Guy Who Couldn't Lose"
http://baccaratlabs.com/showthread.php?73-The-Guy-Who-Couldn-t-Lose (http://baccaratlabs.com/showthread.php?73-The-Guy-Who-Couldn-t-Lose)
This guy didn't play NOR and he still made a lot money. I'm not saying that NOR is bad. The money is worth it for the shortcut in training alone. But there are other ways to win and nothing beats real life experience.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on December 29, 2013, 08:02:09 PM
esoito
"if someone has a well-developed 6th sense"
Your statement infers that is is possible to develop a 6th sense. How do I do that stuff?
Samster
What many call a six sense is really having the ability to achieve being in the zone.
Jared Tender's books on poker psychology are the best books in teaching and describing in deep detail on how to achieve this. Various books on trading also document this very well. Namely books from Ari Kiev and Brett Steenbarger.
Sadly at the moment there are no books on baccarat psychology.
Thanks, JoeyKnish............
Actually I was just poking esoito because he sat me down for ten days a while back. Called a bloke a jerk. Don't do that.
Is a Knish a Jewish pastry?
Sam
I think it is. No idea. Could be. Best knish is at Zoozacrackers in the Wynn! Kind of pricey though. Around $6 for one!!!!
Hello Baccarat players!
Having read many tactics profitable players want to ask why they play following the pattern and not against it.
Can anybody tell what advantage there is to follow the pattern.
Cheers.
Follow the patterns is a stupidity, playing against them is another stupidity.
Due to the asymmetrical nature of the game, in the long run baccarat results show some dispositions more likely than others and these distributions SLIGHTLY overcome the house edge. The main problem is to control the variance (positive or negative) that such a method involve. But knowing that a flat betting procedure might pass the house edge is not a tiny finding.
as.
Quote from: Dilon on December 25, 2013, 03:22:11 AM
I read in their site but in their owned site we can only leave positive information, that's why i'm asking here in neutral zone.
ADulay do you know about that?
Cheers.
Dilon,
I didn't understand what you wrote in that message. "we can only leave positive information".
Where did you see that?
AD
Need create own pattern against game ...let baccarat guess our pattern :thumbsup:
Quote from: Dilon on January 20, 2014, 03:58:49 AM
Need create own pattern against game ...let baccarat guess our pattern :thumbsup:
This sounds like a good advice.
Every soul knows table patterns arise and die without any reliable notice. How much must be long a "pattern" to be worth of betting? There is no answer since every distribution is perfectly equal to the opposite or "superior" distributions and so on. Even in a asym. game as baccarat, where we can expect more Xs than Ys, there's no point in betting chops, repeats or other amenities whatever their frequency and/or quantity is as NOR system suggests.
In a word, we should anticipate what will be the most likely outcomes
before seeing their table occurence not after it. "Pure" banker hands are only a small fraction of the most likely outcomes, there are several other intricated distributions which could be ignored by common players but not by the very observant ones.
as.
Quote from: Dilon on January 20, 2014, 03:58:49 AM
Need create own pattern against game ...let baccarat guess our pattern :thumbsup:
What does this mean exactly ?
Quote
This sounds like a good advice.
Every soul knows table patterns arise and
die without any reliable notice. How much must be long a "pattern" to be worth
of betting? There is no answer since every distribution is perfectly equal to
the opposite or "superior" distributions and so on. Even in a asym. game as
baccarat, where we can expect more Xs than Ys, there's no point in betting
chops, repeats or other amenities whatever their frequency and/or quantity is as
NOR system suggests.
In a word, we should anticipate what will be the most
likely outcomes before seeing their table occurence not after it.
"Pure" banker hands are only a small fraction of the most likely outcomes, there
are several other intricated distributions which could be ignored by common
players but not by the very observant ones.
as.
This also is difficult to understand, what do you mean ?
Hello Sputnik.
Maybe writing a completely new thread would be a better option, anyway I try to post my ideas.
The key point is to constantly remember that baccarat is an asymmetrical (AS) game. An AS game, expecially a slightly one, produces different results than other symmetrical games such as roulette. Yes, on the short run everything could happen, but in the long run some typical AS distributions prevail over the random world which characterizes symmetrical, then unbeatable games. I know this might appear a silly conclusion because there is always a tax to pay, but let's go on.
A shoe (8 decks) produces about 75-80 results, separated into Banker hands and Player hands. These 75-80 results create one of the numerous possible dispositions caused by mathematical laws. Hence, after 2 hands we have 4 possibile dispositions, after 3 hands, the dispositions are 8, after 10 hands the dispositions are 1024 and so on up to the point when we'll reach the number of 75-80 hands. This remark is true if the game is perfectly symmetrical, since in an AS game it is obvious that dispositions which have the most number of Banker hands are more than the opposites. So, in the long run, we are certain that the numbers of the short sequence B-P-P-B-P-B, wherever taken, will be larger than the opposite sequence B-P-P-B-P-P. And this way of thinking will apply to every other kind of disposition because it is a mathematically hard fact. Naturally, shoes rich of Players hands contribute to invert the assumption just written and, of course, we players are subjected to pay a tax.
If we want to go more deeply in the process, we must take in account what are the more likely "fragment" dispositions a shoe will produce, but this time we complicate a bit the problem. Forgetting the total number of hands for each chance (and its gap), forgetting the number of chops or repeats (all events portrayed with huge variance), now what we should do is to predict what will be the most likely distribution of the possible dispositions. This is only a reflex of the asymmetricity that in the long run favors something to the detriment of something else and, good news, these facts are able to invert the negative house edge. According to our studies we found that the distribution of the possible dispositions plays a pivotal role in estimating what will mostly happen for every single shoe.
as.
Quote from: AsymBacGuy on January 22, 2014, 12:57:57 AM
Maybe writing a completely new thread would be a better option, anyway I try to post my ideas.
That sounds like a good idea to me.
AD
Quote from: AsymBacGuy on January 22, 2014, 12:57:57 AM
Hello Sputnik.
Maybe writing a completely new thread would be a better option, anyway I try to post my ideas.
The key point is to constantly remember that baccarat is an asymmetrical (AS) game. An AS game, expecially a slightly one, produces different results than other symmetrical games such as roulette. Yes, on the short run everything could happen, but in the long run some typical AS distributions prevail over the random world which characterizes symmetrical, then unbeatable games. I know this might appear a silly conclusion because there is always a tax to pay, but let's go on.
A shoe (8 decks) produces about 75-80 results, separated into Banker hands and Player hands. These 75-80 results create one of the numerous possible dispositions caused by mathematical laws. Hence, after 2 hands we have 4 possibile dispositions, after 3 hands, the dispositions are 8, after 10 hands the dispositions are 1024 and so on up to the point when we'll reach the number of 75-80 hands. This remark is true if the game is perfectly symmetrical, since in an AS game it is obvious that dispositions which have the most number of Banker hands are more than the opposites. So, in the long run, we are certain that the numbers of the short sequence B-P-P-B-P-B, wherever taken, will be larger than the opposite sequence B-P-P-B-P-P. And this way of thinking will apply to every other kind of disposition because it is a mathematically hard fact. Naturally, shoes rich of Players hands contribute to invert the assumption just written and, of course, we players are subjected to pay a tax.
If we want to go more deeply in the process, we must take in account what are the more likely "fragment" dispositions a shoe will produce, but this time we complicate a bit the problem. Forgetting the total number of hands for each chance (and its gap), forgetting the number of chops or repeats (all events portrayed with huge variance), now what we should do is to predict what will be the most likely distribution of the possible dispositions. This is only a reflex of the asymmetricity that in the long run favors something to the detriment of something else and, good news, these facts are able to invert the negative house edge. According to our studies we found that the distribution of the possible dispositions plays a pivotal role in estimating what will mostly happen for every single shoe.
as.
If i understand you correct so is AS game more common and we should take advantage out of this phenomena.
To illustrate this:
Asymmetric game ''....'.'....''..'''''.'...'.'''''''''..'''.'....''.'..''....'.'''''....''....'...'''.''...
Symmetric game ''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..
Is that what you aim at or did i misunderstand you ?
Quote from: Sputnik on January 22, 2014, 01:18:52 PM
If i understand you correct so is AS game more common and we should take advantage out of this phenomena.
To illustrate this:
Asymmetric game ''....'.'....''..'''''.'...'.'''''''''..'''.'....''.'..''....'.'''''....''....'...'''.''...
Symmetric game ''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..
Is that what you aim at or did i misunderstand you ?
Yep, we must take advantage of the asymmetrical nature of the game, looking for "hidden" opportunities that most players don't care about. The key point is: "does the tiny asymmetricity lead to some advantages overwhelming the negative player's edge?". The answer seems to be "yes".
I'll write some thoughts in a new post.
as.
I've been around baccarat forums for a few years, reading lots not saying much. In general, what I understand of NOR is that it will identify past trends of several combinations being tracked. Mr. Ellis has mentioned that hit and run is a good way to play. He has also mentioned that you must pick a good table to play NOR. He has also stated that you must select more winning hands than losing hands. I feel all of this is good advice. I like his System 40 which I was playing my version of before I knew of Mr. Ellis. Cheers to all.
Quote from: ezmark on January 30, 2014, 05:26:56 PM
In general, what I understand of NOR is that it will identify past trends of several combinations being tracked.
Like I said, tracking of past events of the P/B outcomes are outdated. It's as old as the game itself. Casinos know how to countermove players using past events.
Quote from: ezmark on January 30, 2014, 05:26:56 PMMr. Ellis has mentioned that hit and run is a good way to play.
Hit N Run strategy is a common strategy employed by almost all baccarat players.
Yes. Mr. Ellis was correct when he said it was a good way to play. That's it --- only "good," not better nor the best way to play.
Quote from: ezmark on January 30, 2014, 05:26:56 PMHe has also mentioned that you must pick a good table to play NOR.
I'm wondering. Can you really pick a good table to play?
Is there really a way to pick a good table from a bad baccarat table?
By using the word "pick," can you or anybody really see what the bacc shoe is about to do?
Otherwise, people with psychic powers (?) could make a killing playing baccarat. They will be billionaires by now.
Quote from: ezmark on January 30, 2014, 05:26:56 PMHe has also stated that you must select more winning hands than losing hands.
Can you really select beforehand if the P/B outcome is a winning or losing hand?
Quote from: ezmark on January 30, 2014, 05:26:56 PMI feel all of this is good advice.
Hi ezmark. I've got nothing against you or Mr. Ellis but in playing or learning the game, I don't use emotion (feeling).
Instead, I use math, psychology and logic.
Quote from: ezmark on January 30, 2014, 05:26:56 PMI like his System 40 which I was playing my version of before I knew of Mr. Ellis.
Nothing spectacular about System40. It's only Opposite bets with capping when hit by 3 losses in a row.
NOR relies heavily on the progression, the bet
selection it uses works and doesn't work, just
like every other method. If it was as good as
Ellis says, he'd be a billionaire instead of an
old guy holding teaching sessions.
Quote from: Sputnik on January 22, 2014, 01:18:52 PM
If i understand you correct so is AS game more common and we should take advantage out of this phenomena.
To illustrate this:
Asymmetric game ''....'.'....''..'''''.'...'.'''''''''..'''.'....''.'..''....'.'''''....''....'...'''.''...
Symmetric game ''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..
Is that what you aim at or did i misunderstand you ?
there are many symmetrical positions in your "asymmetric game":
"....'.'...."
'''''.'...'.'''''
'....''....' _____and others
Hello iplayforliving. It's been a while since you last shown up in this forum. FYI i am one of your member. :whistle: :))
Regarding NOR, all I could state that it could win, and it could lose.
What matter is whether you could end up profit or not int the end of the day/session/shoe.
Period.