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[Dilon]

Need create own pattern against game ...let baccarat guess our pattern

[AsymBacGuy]

Need create own pattern against game ...let baccarat guess our pattern

This sounds like a good advice.
Every soul knows table patterns arise and die without any reliable notice. How much must be long a "pattern" to be worth of betting? There is no answer since every distribution is perfectly equal to the opposite or "superior" distributions and so on. Even in a asym. game as baccarat, where we can expect more Xs than Ys, there's no point in betting chops, repeats or other amenities whatever their frequency and/or quantity is as NOR system suggests.
In a word, we should anticipate what will be the most likely outcomes before seeing their table occurence not after it. "Pure" banker hands are only a small fraction of the most likely outcomes, there are several other intricated distributions which could be ignored by common players but not by the very observant ones.

as.   

[Sputnik]

Need create own pattern against game ...let baccarat guess our pattern

What does this mean exactly ?

This sounds like a good advice.
Every soul knows table patterns arise and
die without any reliable notice. How much must be long a "pattern" to be worth
of betting? There is no answer since every distribution is perfectly equal to
the opposite or "superior" distributions and so on. Even in a asym. game as
baccarat, where we can expect more Xs than Ys, there's no point in betting
chops, repeats or other amenities whatever their frequency and/or quantity is as
NOR system suggests.
In a word, we should anticipate what will be the most
likely outcomes before seeing their table occurence not after it.
"Pure" banker hands are only a small fraction of the most likely outcomes, there
are several other intricated distributions which could be ignored by common
players but not by the very observant ones.


as.   

This also is difficult to understand, what do you mean ?

[AsymBacGuy]

Hello Sputnik.
Maybe writing a completely new thread would be a better option, anyway I try to post my ideas.
The key point is to constantly remember that baccarat is an asymmetrical (AS) game. An AS game, expecially a slightly one, produces different results than other symmetrical games such as roulette. Yes, on the short run everything could happen, but in the long run some typical AS distributions prevail over the random world which characterizes symmetrical, then unbeatable games. I know this might appear a silly conclusion because there is always a tax to pay, but let's go on. 
A shoe (8 decks) produces about 75-80 results, separated into Banker hands and Player hands. These 75-80 results create one of the numerous possible dispositions caused by mathematical laws. Hence, after 2 hands we have 4 possibile dispositions, after 3 hands, the dispositions are 8, after 10 hands the dispositions are 1024 and so on up to the point when we'll reach the number of 75-80 hands. This remark is true if the game is perfectly symmetrical, since in an AS game it is obvious that dispositions which have the most number of Banker hands are more than the opposites. So, in the long run, we are certain that the numbers of the short sequence B-P-P-B-P-B, wherever taken, will be larger than the opposite sequence B-P-P-B-P-P. And this way of thinking will apply to every other kind of disposition because it is a mathematically hard fact. Naturally, shoes rich of Players hands contribute to invert the assumption just written and, of course, we players are subjected to pay a tax.
If we want to go more deeply in the process, we must take in account what are the more likely "fragment" dispositions a shoe will produce, but this time we complicate a bit the problem. Forgetting the total number of hands for each chance (and its gap), forgetting the number of chops or repeats (all events portrayed with huge variance), now what we should do is to predict what will be the most likely distribution of the possible dispositions. This is only a reflex of the asymmetricity that in the long run favors something to the detriment of something else and, good news, these facts are able to invert the negative house edge. According to our studies we found that the distribution of the possible dispositions plays a pivotal role in estimating what will mostly happen for every single shoe.   
as.

     


   

[ADulay]

Maybe writing a completely new thread would be a better option, anyway I try to post my ideas.

That sounds like a good idea to me.

AD

[Sputnik]

Hello Sputnik.
Maybe writing a completely new thread would be a better option, anyway I try to post my ideas.
The key point is to constantly remember that baccarat is an asymmetrical (AS) game. An AS game, expecially a slightly one, produces different results than other symmetrical games such as roulette. Yes, on the short run everything could happen, but in the long run some typical AS distributions prevail over the random world which characterizes symmetrical, then unbeatable games. I know this might appear a silly conclusion because there is always a tax to pay, but let's go on. 
A shoe (8 decks) produces about 75-80 results, separated into Banker hands and Player hands. These 75-80 results create one of the numerous possible dispositions caused by mathematical laws. Hence, after 2 hands we have 4 possibile dispositions, after 3 hands, the dispositions are 8, after 10 hands the dispositions are 1024 and so on up to the point when we'll reach the number of 75-80 hands. This remark is true if the game is perfectly symmetrical, since in an AS game it is obvious that dispositions which have the most number of Banker hands are more than the opposites. So, in the long run, we are certain that the numbers of the short sequence B-P-P-B-P-B, wherever taken, will be larger than the opposite sequence B-P-P-B-P-P. And this way of thinking will apply to every other kind of disposition because it is a mathematically hard fact. Naturally, shoes rich of Players hands contribute to invert the assumption just written and, of course, we players are subjected to pay a tax.
If we want to go more deeply in the process, we must take in account what are the more likely "fragment" dispositions a shoe will produce, but this time we complicate a bit the problem. Forgetting the total number of hands for each chance (and its gap), forgetting the number of chops or repeats (all events portrayed with huge variance), now what we should do is to predict what will be the most likely distribution of the possible dispositions. This is only a reflex of the asymmetricity that in the long run favors something to the detriment of something else and, good news, these facts are able to invert the negative house edge. According to our studies we found that the distribution of the possible dispositions plays a pivotal role in estimating what will mostly happen for every single shoe.   
as.

     


   

If i understand you correct so is AS game more common and we should take advantage out of this phenomena.
To illustrate this:

Asymmetric game ''....'.'....''..'''''.'...'.'''''''''..'''.'....''.'..''....'.'''''....''....'...'''.''...

Symmetric game ''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..

Is that what you aim at or did i misunderstand you ?

[AsymBacGuy]

If i understand you correct so is AS game more common and we should take advantage out of this phenomena.
To illustrate this:

Asymmetric game ''....'.'....''..'''''.'...'.'''''''''..'''.'....''.'..''....'.'''''....''....'...'''.''...

Symmetric game ''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..

Is that what you aim at or did i misunderstand you ?

Yep, we must take advantage of the asymmetrical nature of the game, looking for "hidden" opportunities that most players don't care about. The key point is: "does the tiny asymmetricity lead to some advantages overwhelming the negative player's edge?".  The answer seems to be "yes".
I'll write some thoughts in a new post.
as.       

[ezmark]

  I've been around baccarat forums for a few years, reading lots not saying much.  In general, what I understand of NOR is that it will identify past trends of several combinations being tracked.  Mr. Ellis has mentioned that hit and run is a good way to play. He has also mentioned that you must pick a good table to play NOR.  He has also stated that you must select more winning hands than losing hands.  I feel all of this is good advice.  I like his System 40 which I was playing my version of before I knew of Mr. Ellis.  Cheers to all. 

[iplayforaliving]

In general, what I understand of NOR is that it will identify past trends of several combinations being tracked.

Like I said, tracking of past events of the P/B outcomes are outdated. It's as old as the game itself. Casinos know how to countermove players using past events.
 

Mr. Ellis has mentioned that hit and run is a good way to play.

Hit N Run strategy is a common strategy employed by almost all baccarat players.

Yes. Mr. Ellis was correct when he said it was a good way to play. That's it --- only "good," not better nor the best way to play.

He has also mentioned that you must pick a good table to play NOR.

I'm wondering. Can you really pick a good table to play?
Is there really a way to pick a good table from a bad baccarat table?
By using the word "pick," can you or anybody really see what the bacc shoe is about to do?
Otherwise, people with psychic powers (?) could make a killing playing baccarat. They will be billionaires by now.
 

He has also stated that you must select more winning hands than losing hands.

Can you really select beforehand if the P/B outcome is a winning or losing hand?

I feel all of this is good advice.

Hi ezmark. I've got nothing against you or Mr. Ellis but in playing or learning the game, I don't use emotion (feeling).
Instead, I use math, psychology and logic.   

I like his System 40 which I was playing my version of before I knew of Mr. Ellis.

Nothing spectacular about System40. It's only Opposite bets with capping when hit by 3 losses in a row.

[spike]

NOR relies heavily on the progression, the bet
selection it uses works and doesn't work, just
like every other method. If it was as good as
Ellis says, he'd be a billionaire instead of an
old guy holding teaching sessions.

[plolp]

If i understand you correct so is AS game more common and we should take advantage out of this phenomena.
To illustrate this:

Asymmetric game ''....'.'....''..'''''.'...'.'''''''''..'''.'....''.'..''....'.'''''....''....'...'''.''...

Symmetric game ''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..''..

Is that what you aim at or did i misunderstand you ?

there are many symmetrical positions in your "asymmetric game":

"....'.'...."

'''''.'...'.'''''

'....''....'    _____and others

[Garfield]

Hello iplayforliving. It's been a while since you last shown up in this forum. FYI i am one of your member.   

Regarding NOR, all I could state that it could win, and it could lose.

What matter is whether you could end up profit or not int the end of the day/session/shoe.

Period.