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[tdx]

I'm not sure you can use a shoe from the Resorts casino in Queens NY as a "real" shoe....because if it is computer controlled ( which I think it is ), then the players and bankers result is determined by how much money is bet on the player and banker.........not from an honest bac game dealt from a real shoe by a real dealer .

I've talked to people who have played there and will not play there again.

[alrelax]

Think what you desire and side with what you truly believe in, however, electronics and computers can be manipulated.  Not many know inside of a casino and not many ask, they don't care, they are employees or management .  Same as on-line.  As previously mentioned, a live dealer with a real shoe in front of your eyes, cannot be manipulated.  Those that think otherwise--have not played the game in a live casino. 

[gr8player]

I'm not sure you can use a shoe from the Resorts casino in Queens NY as a "real" shoe....because if it is computer controlled ( which I think it is ), then the players and bankers result is determined by how much money is bet on the player and banker.........not from an honest bac game dealt from a real shoe by a real dealer .

I've talked to people who have played there and will not play there again.

You're a wise man, TDX. 

I steer clear of any such malarkey as "computer controlled" games; their results can be (and are) manipulated.  I won't even play at the new "stadium-style" Bac game at Mohegan, because they are using an "electronic" (translation: "computerized") shoe that, too, can manipulate the results as they please.

And don't be fooled by their marquees showing the long runs or the "obvious" trends....they only produce those when no one is betting much money and/or to entice more action.  Stay away.....

[alrelax]

There is an old saying gamblers do not like to pay attention top or even believe in for some strange reason, it is:

"What is good for the casino is generally not good for the player".

I leave it rest at that. 

I am posting a thread entitled, "Why do you think", in relationship to this now.  Thanks.

[Eight Iron]

You're a wise man, TDX. 

I steer clear of any such malarkey as "computer controlled" games; their results can be (and are) manipulated.  I won't even play at the new "stadium-style" Bac game at Mohegan, because they are using an "electronic" (translation: "computerized") shoe that, too, can manipulate the results as they please.

And don't be fooled by their marquees showing the long runs or the "obvious" trends....they only produce those when no one is betting much money and/or to entice more action.  Stay away.....

I also play in CT. and PA, and there is no difference in the deals.

If there was, I would not play at RW.

Any shoe that is only shuffled by a machine, can in theory be manipulated.

But they are not.

When you see a long streak at RW, you can bet most of the money is on the streak, as it would be anywhere else.

As far as producing those trends when no one is betting much money, there can be one hundred people betting
a streak at any given time.

If the outcome was determined by the amount of money bet on one side or the other, you would not get
streaks, and you would see nothing but single chops.

Good partial RW shoe from today:

BPPPPPPPTPPPPPBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBPPPPBBTPTPBBBPBBPPTPBBBPBPPTPBBBBB

Recent EZ Bac shoe from PARX:

D= Dragon = Banker Push

BDPPBPBTPPTBPPBPPPPBPBPPBPBBBPBBTBPBPPBTPPPPBPPBTBPPBBBBPPPBPPPBBBPBBBBTBBTTPBPP

[alrelax]

I also play in CT. and PA, and there is no difference in the deals.



When you see a long streak at RW, you can bet most of the money is on the streak, as it would be anywhere else.

Please don't say "...as it would be anywhere else......"

I have played this game all over, albeit not at RW or most places in Eastern PA, but everywhere else, at least CT places, South Florida, Southern MS, Vegas, Southern CA and lots of places in the Midwest.  The trend the past 5 plus years is to wager OLD and then as soon as it goes opposite, they will generally wager OLD once again, consistently always wagering for the cut.  Seldom, and rarely any longer to see the majority wagering for the run or the streak (meaning repeating hands of the same side). 

[RouletteGhost]

You guys are being paranoid

The virtual baccarat is RNG. Yes stay away

But the other machines use real cards
The craps uses actual dice
Mecahnical arms deal

The machine doesn't shuffle cards to find the one it wants to use

Gr8players is wrong about his trends point

He says: "
And don't be fooled by their marquees showing the long runs or the "obvious" trends....they only produce those when no one is betting much money and/or to entice more action.  Stay away....."

I often see long trends at resorts world at the organic machine that uses real cards.

Followed by extremely loud cheers for the people that got 10 bankers in a row and cashed in. I've seen it

These machines deal real cards. I've seen humongous wins. Period.

[tdx]

The new "Stadium" blackjack and baccarat and roulette games are made by a company called Scientific Games from  Australia    ( I think they were just bought out by Bally Gaming.)

They are called Stadium games because  the computer terminals where you place your bets look like seats in a football or baseball stadium.

These are NOT the games used in Resorts World in Queens New York.

The Sands casino in Bethlehem Pennsylvania and Mohegan Sun casino in Connecticut uses these Stadium games for the Baccarat game as well as the roulette and blackjack games.

The Sands casino has 120 terminals and Mohegan has about 60 terminals......with probably more to come

I don't play roulette...... but its played on a real wheel with a real dealer spinning the ball so I don't see how that game is fixed unless there are magnets in the wheel ....but I saw someone win almost $ 4,000 by betting $125 on a number and hitting it.......so I don't think the casino would let that happen if it was fixed.

I don't  play roulette so I really don't care about it.

The blackjack game uses 4 decks and the cards are continuously shuffled ( Its an infinite deck so card counting doesn't work )

Black Jack would be the easiest to fix since all the shuffle machine would have to do is arrange the cards for the dealer to get a 9 or 10 face card most of the time so the customer has to hit and bust ......or the dealer to hit his stiff 14 or 15's with a 4 or a 5 card and make his 19 or 20 most of the time.

However I saw someone do the impossible and win over $35,000 betting $ 500 to $1000 a hand on blackjack over a 10 hour period...... and I can't see the casino letting that happen if the game was fixed.......however I still don't trust the blackjack game and will  not play it.

I play the baccarat game with a real dealer dealing from a real shoe. One of the ways the game can be fixed is for the shuffle machine to arrange the cards so there are no long  Player or Banker runs over 3 or 4 in a row.......and the rest of the hands are just "impossible to win"  garbage with no "standard patterns" such as a long PBPBPB chop, the one two PBBPBBPBB   the one three PBBBPBBB  the double PPBBPPBB   etc etc

This is the only way the casino can cheat in baccarat because baccarat is not like blackjack...... because there is no basic strategy in baccarat as there is in blackjack.

However, after taking the cards out of the shuffle machine, the dealer manually mixes the cards, and I know the dealers do not have the skill to do a false shuffle and re-stack the deck.  If the dealer did not hand shuffle the cards after taking them out of the shuffle machine, then I would be very suspicious.

Also unlike BlackJack, baccarat is hard to fix since the computer does not know how the customer will bet before the hand is dealt....and the real live dealer is dealing out of a shoe so she can not select the cards to make sure most of the customers lose the next hand.

I have also seen long Player and Banker runs of 12 or more and I saw one chop PBPBPBPB of an incredible  18 in a row.

I'm still trying to figure out if the bac game is fixed .......but so far I can't come up with anything.

However you would have to be a moron to play any bac game in a casino using an RNG to determine the hands since that almost definitely is a slot machine and the computer knows how much money is bet on Player or Banker.

As far as the bac machines that use real cards and mechanically selects the cards, I don't trust those either since each card has a RFID identifier chip in them and the machine can select the card it needs to ensure most of the customers lose since the computer knows how much is bet on Player or Banker before the hand is dealt.  It appears the machine is selecting the next card....but you can't really tell which card it  is selecting.

Also it doesn't appear a new deck is shuffled ...but its just one continuous deck being used continuously.   If there is no real live dealer using a real shoe.....then you are probably playing against a slot machine.

The people who are really getting screwed on these computer and Stadium games are the dealers since they are losing a lot of tips since almost no one will tip a computer........but its the new trend in casinos since they need only a few dealers and supervisors and they can get rid of a lot of employees and save money.

Also the next thing to appear in casinos ( its already in use at the Wynn casino in Vegas ) are real chips with an RFID marker inbedded in them so the casino knows  how much you bought in for, how much you colored up, how much you won or lost, your average bet, how long you played etc etc so they computer can accurately rate you on your Players card........so there is no more hiding chips in your pocket.

Only way around this is to not use your Players card when you buy into a game.

There will always be dealers in a casino but automation will eliminate a lot of dealer and supervisor jobs in the future......machine don't get sick, don't steal chips, don't make mistakes, don't go on vacation, don't get pregnant, don't get 401K plans or pensions, don't show up late for work, don't sue the casino for discrimination, don't get tired etc etc etc

It happened in the automobile and steel  industries  where good paying jobs with good benefits were automated out of existence......and now people who do not have the proper education, skills and intelligence can not find meaningful work
except for minimum wage dead end jobs....which means selling drugs is the best opportunity for a lot of people in all countries over the world.

[james]

The computer knows how much money is bet on the banker and player. The question is whether the computer changes the cards dealt in the middle of the game? If money is bet heavily on banker, will the computer cheat to produce a winning player hand? Since the casino industry is regulated, I doubt if the baccarat machines cheat? The baccarat game has an inbuilt house advantage and there is no need for cheating, since if they are caught cheating, there will be heavy fines.

[alrelax]

Didn't go as far as to say 'Cheat' but manipulate and still be in a grey area or verbatim, within the law is not hard to do.  Nothing against any of you----I have several members of my immediate family in casino management and regulation compliance.  Please, don't be so naïve.  There can very well be a RNG or similar in a machine, however and a huge however-there can be other safeguards and programming done to any machine. 

[RouletteGhost]

I don't care if there's a rfid chip in the cards

People win big money on the mechanical machines that use real cards

I doubt they are fixed.

It accomodates a ton of people

The casino makes out

[tdx]

As I said before, the Stadium baccarat game is hard for the casino to cheat because:

1. In Stadium baccarat, the cards are dealt from a real shoe with a live dealer.  The dealer can not select cards which the casino needs to make money on a particular hand since the dealer must take the next card out of the shoe.

2. At the end of the shoe, the dealer takes the cards out of the shuffle machine and then hand shuffles the cards (and sometimes they let a customer actually cut the cards)  and then the dealer puts the cards in the shoe.

The dealers I know don't have the very difficult skill level to stack the deck while hand shuffling the cards.

But as I said before, if you play against an RNG.....good luck....you will need it.

It's a slot machine.

And if you think casinos and the auto and steel industries are the only industries automating thousands of jobs into oblivion, then read this :


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/27/the-era-of-robots-thousands-of-builders-to-lose-jobs-as-machines/

[soxfan]

I have to say that most of the coconuts at my local are lookin at tryin to capture long streaks to save their bacon. Unfortunately for them you only buck up against about 2 streaks of 5+ b/p streaks. So, ya gotta be able to make cake with other outcome, hey hey.

[Jimske]

Didn't go as far as to say 'Cheat' but manipulate and still be in a grey area or verbatim, within the law is not hard to do.  Nothing against any of you----I have several members of my immediate family in casino management and regulation compliance.  Please, don't be so naïve.  There can very well be a RNG or similar in a machine, however and a huge however-there can be other safeguards and programming done to any machine.

I rarely come in and read post anymore.  I only play Baccarat.  IMO this site is pretty much worthless for anything more than chewing the cud.

Nothing personal, Al, but if you are referring to an open and closed game that can readily be seen in a shoe or some other apparatus that is obviously not touched after the set up than this doesn't make much sense.  It really doesn't matter how the cards are shuffled or even deliberately set up to mimic an RNG.  RNG's have their own short term bias.

It's a betting and guessing game.  Most look for some bias to continue and bet that.  The ONLY way a game could be manipulated is if there existed some leading indicator whereby a player could predict a positive expectation (like in BJ).  In such a case the casino could somehow thwart a potential leading indicator by changing the card order.  But, as mentioned, if the cards are in a shoe and have a beginning and end that cannot be altered it really has no effect.  Because there IS NO leading indicator in Baccarat.

Furthermore, I think too many people put way too much credence in the knowledge of casino personnel.  They like to pretend they got some deep knowledge.  Most of these critters, management or not, don't have a clue.

J

[alrelax]

Referring to machine baccarat, not live shoe or even stadium style, on-line bac-electronic bac such as the roulette and craps, etc.  Not in the manipulation of a shoe--of course nothing can change once set up.... Electronic.