As most of you know resorts world has a TON of baccarat
Thousands of baccarat players play here
Baccarat lounge and all
I notice on these organic baccarat machines that there are very often streaks of P or B that people capitalize on
Rich,
These organic baccarat machines are purely electronic or are real cards used in generating the hands?
Some are video RNG
Some are real cards dealt by robotic arm in a bubble. This is the popular one. Its stadium style. And always packed
In NYS live dealer and random games are illegal
The slot machines are lottery terminals
Somehow the airball roulette, organic craps, and baccarat exploited a loophole in this law or politicians were paid off
NYS has 7 full blown casino licenses. Resorts will not be receiving one for years. They agreed to keep the licenses away from down state (city and long island) for years to come
All the Resorts World games ( including bac ) are basically slot machines.......including the bac games where it appears there is a real shoe being dealt.
Only way to get a fair bac game is with a live dealer dealing from a real shoe....... or the new Stadium bac terminals where a live dealer is dealing from a real shoe and can't manipulate the deck and the banker and player hands are not determined by a computer.
Good luck trying to beat a slot machine !
Tdx,
This is debatable
The organic craps is real dice in a bubble and the baccarat is real cards. The roulette is airball.
According to resorts world documents these machines are random and slipped through a state law loophole
The slot machines are lottery terminals. So if you play slots at resorts, you might as well buy scratchoffs
According to NY daily news the baccarat is real:
Quote
The state Constitution bars gambling "except lotteries operated by the state." By ruling of New York's highest court, the VLT machines qualify as lotteries because a computer in Schenectady generates the results of every play at random — much as happens in candy store Quick Pick games.
Resorts World's table games work differently.
For craps, and Sic Bo, another dice game, a robotic arm throws real dice underneath a plastic bubble. Except for the bubble and the robot, it is exactly like Las Vegas. The outcome is determined on the felt, not in the lottery's computer.
The same goes for roulette, which has a real ball bouncing along on a real wheel. Ditto for baccarat, where actual cards are dealt — under plastic — by a robot to each player.
In casinos there are bubble craps and video craps, there are airball roulette machines and video roulette machines, there are real cards baccarat and video baccarat. I do not play video machines but play bubble craps, real cards baccarat etc.
I was told that some experienced dealers can manipulate the cards that they are dealing.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on September 20, 2016, 01:40:49 AM
As most of you know resorts world has a TON of baccarat
Thousands of baccarat players play here
Baccarat lounge and all
I notice on these organic baccarat machines that there are very often streaks of P or B that people capitalize on
I play a short session there five or six days a week.
Last week I saw fourteen straight Banker wins followed by eleven straight Player wins.
I've seen one or the other before, but never back to back.
Today and yesterday, while I was there, the shoes rarely got to BBB or PPP. Lots of BPBPB chops.
They use real cards, but go to virtual mode when the dealing mechanism or the shuffler breaks down. Which is often.
These are some recent hands:
BBTBPPBTPPBPPBPPPPPBBBBPTBBPBPBTPBBTBBTPBTBBPBBBTPBPPBPBBBPPBTBTPBBPPBPBBPBPPBPBBBPTBPBPBBBPPPB
PBBBPPBPPPTBBPPBPBBPPPPPPBTPPBPBBBTBPPP
Live on long island?
I live for the BPBPBP or the BBBBBB run or the PPPPPP.... I LIVE FOR THOSE!!! :)
Quote from: RouletteGhost on September 24, 2016, 02:28:40 AM
Live on long island?
Queens.
Some hands from last week:
I didn't record the Ties.
PPPPBPPBBBBPBPPBPPBPPBPBBPPBPBPPPPBBBBPBBPBBBPBPPBBBBPBBBPBPBPPBBBBPBBPPBBBBP
BBBPPBBPPPPPBPPBBPPBPBBPBBBBPPPPPPPPPPPPPPBPBBPPPPPPBPPBBBPPBPPBB
Quote from: Eight Iron on September 24, 2016, 09:56:35 PM
Queens.
Some hands from last week:
I didn't record the Ties.
PPPPBPPBBBBPBPPBPPBPPBPBBPPBPBPPPPBBBBPBBPBBBPBPPBBBBPBBBPBPBPPBBBBPBBPPBBBBP
BBBPPBBPPPPPBPPBBPPBPBBPBBBBPPPPPPPPPPPPPPBPBBPPPPPPBPPBBBPPBPPBB
Where were these from?
AD
Quote from: ADulay on September 25, 2016, 02:09:34 AM
Where were these from?
AD
These are real card hands dealt by the Organic Machines at RW in NYC.
I include them for anyone interested in playing them.
Recent complete shoe:
PPPPPPPBPBBPBPBBBPPBPBBBPPBBBBTBTPBPPBTTPTPPTBBPBBBBPBPPPPTBTPPBPPPPBPPBBBBB
Thanks.
AD
Quote from: Eight Iron on September 24, 2016, 09:56:35 PM
Queens.
Some hands from last week:
I didn't record the Ties.
PPPPBPPBBBBPBPPBPPBPPBPBBPPBPBPPPPBBBBPBBPBBBPBPPBBBBPBBBPBPBPPBBBBPBBPPBBBBP
BBBPPBBPPPPPBPPBBPPBPBBPBBBBPPPPPPPPPPPPPPBPBBPPPPPPBPPBBBPPBPPBB
Although 84 hands and no posted ties is highly unusual, I went ahead and ran a test play on this shoe using VDW coupled with the Mongoose MM play. The reason was because of the high amount of "2's" in the shoe, which is the nemesis of VDW.
Also, the Mongoose makes most of its wagers as 1 and 2 units unless you choose to Marty the single losses in a row, which I didn't.
So, if you're in the Mongoose or VDW camp, this shoe's for you! Also notice that the Mongoose MM did hit +5 wins three times in the shoe. Hands 32-38, 50-62 and finally 64-74.
Your mileage may vary.
I'll run the other two Resort World shoes if the football games get boring this afternoon.
AD
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CKLm9cr/0/XL/i-CKLm9cr-XL.jpg)
I still do not comprehend vdw
I'm not sure you can use a shoe from the Resorts casino in Queens NY as a "real" shoe....because if it is computer controlled ( which I think it is ), then the players and bankers result is determined by how much money is bet on the player and banker.........not from an honest bac game dealt from a real shoe by a real dealer .
I've talked to people who have played there and will not play there again.
Think what you desire and side with what you truly believe in, however, electronics and computers can be manipulated. Not many know inside of a casino and not many ask, they don't care, they are employees or management . Same as on-line. As previously mentioned, a live dealer with a real shoe in front of your eyes, cannot be manipulated. Those that think otherwise--have not played the game in a live casino.
Quote from: tdx on September 26, 2016, 02:27:01 AM
I'm not sure you can use a shoe from the Resorts casino in Queens NY as a "real" shoe....because if it is computer controlled ( which I think it is ), then the players and bankers result is determined by how much money is bet on the player and banker.........not from an honest bac game dealt from a real shoe by a real dealer .
I've talked to people who have played there and will not play there again.
You're a wise man, TDX.
I steer clear of any such malarkey as "computer controlled" games; their results can be (and are) manipulated. I won't even play at the new "stadium-style" Bac game at Mohegan, because they are using an "electronic" (translation: "computerized") shoe that, too, can manipulate the results as they please.
And don't be fooled by their marquees showing the long runs or the "obvious" trends....they only produce those when no one is betting much money and/or to entice more action. Stay away.....
There is an old saying gamblers do not like to pay attention top or even believe in for some strange reason, it is:
"What is good for the casino is generally not good for the player".
I leave it rest at that.
I am posting a thread entitled, "Why do you think", in relationship to this now. Thanks.
Quote from: gr8player on September 26, 2016, 12:11:28 PM
You're a wise man, TDX.
I steer clear of any such malarkey as "computer controlled" games; their results can be (and are) manipulated. I won't even play at the new "stadium-style" Bac game at Mohegan, because they are using an "electronic" (translation: "computerized") shoe that, too, can manipulate the results as they please.
And don't be fooled by their marquees showing the long runs or the "obvious" trends....they only produce those when no one is betting much money and/or to entice more action. Stay away.....
I also play in CT. and PA, and there is no difference in the deals.
If there was, I would not play at RW.
Any shoe that is only shuffled by a machine, can in theory be manipulated.
But they are not.
When you see a long streak at RW, you can bet most of the money is on the streak, as it would be anywhere else.
As far as producing those trends when no one is betting much money, there can be one hundred people betting
a streak at any given time.
If the outcome was determined by the amount of money bet on one side or the other, you would not get
streaks, and you would see nothing but single chops.
Good partial RW shoe from today:
BPPPPPPPTPPPPPBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBPPPPBBTPTPBBBPBBPPTPBBBPBPPTPBBBBB
Recent EZ Bac shoe from PARX:
D= Dragon = Banker Push
BDPPBPBTPPTBPPBPPPPBPBPPBPBBBPBBTBPBPPBTPPPPBPPBTBPPBBBBPPPBPPPBBBPBBBBTBBTTPBPP
Quote from: Eight Iron on September 26, 2016, 07:45:39 PM
I also play in CT. and PA, and there is no difference in the deals.
When you see a long streak at RW, you can bet most of the money is on the streak, as it would be anywhere else.
Please don't say "...as it would be anywhere else......"
I have played this game all over, albeit not at RW or most places in Eastern PA, but everywhere else, at least CT places, South Florida, Southern MS, Vegas, Southern CA and lots of places in the Midwest. The trend the past 5 plus years is to wager OLD and then as soon as it goes opposite, they will generally wager OLD once again, consistently always wagering for the cut. Seldom, and rarely any longer to see the majority wagering for the run or the streak (meaning repeating hands of the same side).
You guys are being paranoid
The virtual baccarat is RNG. Yes stay away
But the other machines use real cards
The craps uses actual dice
Mecahnical arms deal
The machine doesn't shuffle cards to find the one it wants to use
Gr8players is wrong about his trends point
He says: "
And don't be fooled by their marquees showing the long runs or the "obvious" trends....they only produce those when no one is betting much money and/or to entice more action. Stay away....."
I often see long trends at resorts world at the organic machine that uses real cards.
Followed by extremely loud cheers for the people that got 10 bankers in a row and cashed in. I've seen it
These machines deal real cards. I've seen humongous wins. Period.
The new "Stadium" blackjack and baccarat and roulette games are made by a company called Scientific Games from Australia ( I think they were just bought out by Bally Gaming.)
They are called Stadium games because the computer terminals where you place your bets look like seats in a football or baseball stadium.
These are NOT the games used in Resorts World in Queens New York.
The Sands casino in Bethlehem Pennsylvania and Mohegan Sun casino in Connecticut uses these Stadium games for the Baccarat game as well as the roulette and blackjack games.
The Sands casino has 120 terminals and Mohegan has about 60 terminals......with probably more to come
I don't play roulette...... but its played on a real wheel with a real dealer spinning the ball so I don't see how that game is fixed unless there are magnets in the wheel ....but I saw someone win almost $ 4,000 by betting $125 on a number and hitting it.......so I don't think the casino would let that happen if it was fixed.
I don't play roulette so I really don't care about it.
The blackjack game uses 4 decks and the cards are continuously shuffled ( Its an infinite deck so card counting doesn't work )
Black Jack would be the easiest to fix since all the shuffle machine would have to do is arrange the cards for the dealer to get a 9 or 10 face card most of the time so the customer has to hit and bust ......or the dealer to hit his stiff 14 or 15's with a 4 or a 5 card and make his 19 or 20 most of the time.
However I saw someone do the impossible and win over $35,000 betting $ 500 to $1000 a hand on blackjack over a 10 hour period...... and I can't see the casino letting that happen if the game was fixed.......however I still don't trust the blackjack game and will not play it.
I play the baccarat game with a real dealer dealing from a real shoe. One of the ways the game can be fixed is for the shuffle machine to arrange the cards so there are no long Player or Banker runs over 3 or 4 in a row.......and the rest of the hands are just "impossible to win" garbage with no "standard patterns" such as a long PBPBPB chop, the one two PBBPBBPBB the one three PBBBPBBB the double PPBBPPBB etc etc
This is the only way the casino can cheat in baccarat because baccarat is not like blackjack...... because there is no basic strategy in baccarat as there is in blackjack.
However, after taking the cards out of the shuffle machine, the dealer manually mixes the cards, and I know the dealers do not have the skill to do a false shuffle and re-stack the deck. If the dealer did not hand shuffle the cards after taking them out of the shuffle machine, then I would be very suspicious.
Also unlike BlackJack, baccarat is hard to fix since the computer does not know how the customer will bet before the hand is dealt....and the real live dealer is dealing out of a shoe so she can not select the cards to make sure most of the customers lose the next hand.
I have also seen long Player and Banker runs of 12 or more and I saw one chop PBPBPBPB of an incredible 18 in a row.
I'm still trying to figure out if the bac game is fixed .......but so far I can't come up with anything.
However you would have to be a moron to play any bac game in a casino using an RNG to determine the hands since that almost definitely is a slot machine and the computer knows how much money is bet on Player or Banker.
As far as the bac machines that use real cards and mechanically selects the cards, I don't trust those either since each card has a RFID identifier chip in them and the machine can select the card it needs to ensure most of the customers lose since the computer knows how much is bet on Player or Banker before the hand is dealt. It appears the machine is selecting the next card....but you can't really tell which card it is selecting.
Also it doesn't appear a new deck is shuffled ...but its just one continuous deck being used continuously. If there is no real live dealer using a real shoe.....then you are probably playing against a slot machine.
The people who are really getting screwed on these computer and Stadium games are the dealers since they are losing a lot of tips since almost no one will tip a computer........but its the new trend in casinos since they need only a few dealers and supervisors and they can get rid of a lot of employees and save money.
Also the next thing to appear in casinos ( its already in use at the Wynn casino in Vegas ) are real chips with an RFID marker inbedded in them so the casino knows how much you bought in for, how much you colored up, how much you won or lost, your average bet, how long you played etc etc so they computer can accurately rate you on your Players card........so there is no more hiding chips in your pocket.
Only way around this is to not use your Players card when you buy into a game.
There will always be dealers in a casino but automation will eliminate a lot of dealer and supervisor jobs in the future......machine don't get sick, don't steal chips, don't make mistakes, don't go on vacation, don't get pregnant, don't get 401K plans or pensions, don't show up late for work, don't sue the casino for discrimination, don't get tired etc etc etc
It happened in the automobile and steel industries where good paying jobs with good benefits were automated out of existence......and now people who do not have the proper education, skills and intelligence can not find meaningful work
except for minimum wage dead end jobs....which means selling drugs is the best opportunity for a lot of people in all countries over the world.
The computer knows how much money is bet on the banker and player. The question is whether the computer changes the cards dealt in the middle of the game? If money is bet heavily on banker, will the computer cheat to produce a winning player hand? Since the casino industry is regulated, I doubt if the baccarat machines cheat? The baccarat game has an inbuilt house advantage and there is no need for cheating, since if they are caught cheating, there will be heavy fines.
Didn't go as far as to say 'Cheat' but manipulate and still be in a grey area or verbatim, within the law is not hard to do. Nothing against any of you----I have several members of my immediate family in casino management and regulation compliance. Please, don't be so naïve. There can very well be a RNG or similar in a machine, however and a huge however-there can be other safeguards and programming done to any machine.
I don't care if there's a rfid chip in the cards
People win big money on the mechanical machines that use real cards
I doubt they are fixed.
It accomodates a ton of people
The casino makes out
As I said before, the Stadium baccarat game is hard for the casino to cheat because:
1. In Stadium baccarat, the cards are dealt from a real shoe with a live dealer. The dealer can not select cards which the casino needs to make money on a particular hand since the dealer must take the next card out of the shoe.
2. At the end of the shoe, the dealer takes the cards out of the shuffle machine and then hand shuffles the cards (and sometimes they let a customer actually cut the cards) and then the dealer puts the cards in the shoe.
The dealers I know don't have the very difficult skill level to stack the deck while hand shuffling the cards.
But as I said before, if you play against an RNG.....good luck....you will need it.
It's a slot machine.
And if you think casinos and the auto and steel industries are the only industries automating thousands of jobs into oblivion, then read this :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/27/the-era-of-robots-thousands-of-builders-to-lose-jobs-as-machines/
I have to say that most of the coconuts at my local are lookin at tryin to capture long streaks to save their bacon. Unfortunately for them you only buck up against about 2 streaks of 5+ b/p streaks. So, ya gotta be able to make cake with other outcome, hey hey.
Quote from: alrelax on September 27, 2016, 12:16:18 PM
Didn't go as far as to say 'Cheat' but manipulate and still be in a grey area or verbatim, within the law is not hard to do. Nothing against any of you----I have several members of my immediate family in casino management and regulation compliance. Please, don't be so naïve. There can very well be a RNG or similar in a machine, however and a huge however-there can be other safeguards and programming done to any machine.
I rarely come in and read post anymore. I only play Baccarat. IMO this site is pretty much worthless for anything more than chewing the cud.
Nothing personal, Al, but if you are referring to an open and closed game that can readily be seen in a shoe or some other apparatus that is obviously not touched after the set up than this doesn't make much sense. It really doesn't matter how the cards are shuffled or even deliberately set up to mimic an RNG. RNG's have their own short term bias.
It's a betting and guessing game. Most look for some bias to continue and bet that. The ONLY way a game could be manipulated is if there existed some leading indicator whereby a player could predict a positive expectation (like in BJ). In such a case the casino could somehow thwart a potential leading indicator by changing the card order. But, as mentioned, if the cards are in a shoe and have a beginning and end that cannot be altered it really has no effect. Because there IS NO leading indicator in Baccarat.
Furthermore, I think too many people put way too much credence in the knowledge of casino personnel. They like to pretend they got some deep knowledge. Most of these critters, management or not, don't have a clue.
J
Referring to machine baccarat, not live shoe or even stadium style, on-line bac-electronic bac such as the roulette and craps, etc. Not in the manipulation of a shoe--of course nothing can change once set up.... Electronic.
http://vitalvegas.com/stadium-gaming-sucking-fun-gambling-since-late-2013/
The game is junk, takes away all the camaraderie and all the best times of playing with like players and having some hellacious games. Support and see what happens to most of the live tables in the smaller locales.
Quote from: alrelax on September 29, 2016, 06:32:12 PM
http://vitalvegas.com/stadium-gaming-sucking-fun-gambling-since-late-2013/
The game is junk, takes away all the camaraderie and all the best times of playing with like players and having some hellacious games. Support and see what happens to most of the live tables in the smaller locales.
IT REALLY IS THE MOST SUCK. THESE COMPUTER GAMES ARE DOG stuff. EXECUTIVE CASINO MANAGEMENT. IF YOU KEEP PUSHING THIS. ROBOT DEALERS, STAFF, AND COMPUTER GAMES IN YOUR HOUSES. GUESS WHAT? YOUR HOUSES WILL BE EMPTY.
One of the best things about playing table games is the shared experience of a real game NOT F'ING XBOX.
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Quote from: Jimske on September 29, 2016, 05:50:23 PMBecause there IS NO leading indicator in Baccarat.
J
FALSE - Just like there are no leading indicators or data in the financial markets. So the market going to zero is bound to go the infinity!!!
Maybe go read Gambling 102 where The Dark Wizard states 'When you gamble, expect to lose' YAY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWr8hbUkG9s
Quote from: alrelax on September 29, 2016, 06:32:12 PM
http://vitalvegas.com/stadium-gaming-sucking-fun-gambling-since-late-2013/
The game is junk, takes away all the camaraderie and all the best times of playing with like players and having some hellacious games. Support and see what happens to most of the live tables in the smaller locales.
Camaraderie, fun, best of times, etc etc.... huh?.........if you can't speak Mandarin or Cantonese, where is the camaraderie ?
Fun ?....is it fun to have people blowing smoke in your face and inhaling 5 cubic feet of second hand smoke every 5 minutes?
I thought the object was to try and show a profit playing a very difficult game to beat....not have a good time and meet new friends.........if you want to meet new friends, join a country club.
If you want to have fun, go to an amusement park.
There is a huge difference between serious cats lookin to make their daily bread at the tables and recreational player, hey hey.
My bad!!! Absolutely, you are correct, I forgot the main floor and the HL room, two different animals, I'm sorry I forgot! LOL.
Yes, now I UNDERSTAND where you are coming from and how you play! Again, LOL! ;D
I'm learning a little baccarat Mandarin. I'm sorry, but there are so many 'interesting' fellow players around. ;) Don't get me wrong, times can suck the most with very heavy pressure and hell, but best players make it fun and win equals fun with all the rituals and gaming. If I were smart enough, I would know some of a lot of languages and Mandarin, Japanese and Korean would right up there. F that XBOX stuff.
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So many of the places are primarily SE Asian and Korean, yes there are some Chinese but not as many as the other nationalities. Don't know about the Chicago/Michigan areas, talking about most others.
Casinos will always be a hybrid of the Stadium game and live dealers since some customers like the interaction with live dealers and sitting and talking with their friends at a real baccarat table...and they don't like and don't trust the computer Stadium game.
But other customers will like the Stadium game since its only 25 seconds between hands and a shoe can be done in about 50 minutes.......and there is no problem with the time wasted with anyone buying in, coloring up, paying commissions, dealer mistakes, cheating etc etc and the game is honest and dealt from a shoe.
Casinos love the Stadium game since they can get rid of dealers and supervisors since one dealer can deal to 120 different people at the same time.
The dealers are getting screwed since their tips will drop substantially ....there is a tip button on the Stadium terminal but who is going to tip a dealer who is standing 50 yards away from you ?
Casinos don't give a s!!t about employees.....you're just a number on a computer printout with how much money you make and how much you are costing the casino in 401K and health insurance benefits.
The longer you work there, which means you are actually one of the best employees since you survived previous layoffs and firings, the more the casino is trying to get rid of you because you are too expensive.
Casinos are trying to get everyone on 29 hours a week part time so they don't have to pay full time employee benefits.
If you are a full time employee, every day could be the last and you are out of work.
Casinos are a brutal place to work.
If casinos are a terrible place to work then The Academy should pay a visit because they're the best actors. The industry is setting itself up for huge failure with moving one step away from online gaming. In the US, all it takes is a new approach for players to circumvent existing gaming laws or gaming laws to change and boom many of the video game players will skip the drive to play and play online only.
According to a baccarat expert one should avoid baccarat where "factory preshuffled" cards are used, since the cards are fixed in a way that are favorable to the casinos. Also avoid baccarat where shuffle machines are used for the same reason. It looks that according to experts one should avoid baccarat game, where machines are used to deal or shuffle, and play only where cards are shuffled in the old fashioned way and dealt by human dealers.
Quote from: james on September 30, 2016, 11:57:03 AM
According to a baccarat expert one should avoid baccarat where "factory preshuffled" cards are used, since the cards are fixed in a way that are favorable to the casinos. Also avoid baccarat where shuffle machines are used for the same reason. It looks that according to experts one should avoid baccarat game, where machines are used to deal or shuffle, and play only where cards are shuffled in the old fashioned way and dealt by human dealers.
Seriously, silliest poo-poo there is. With $10.00 you can buy 8 decks of cards. Go ahead and set them up anyway you so desire to be in favor of 'your casino'. Cut them once and then see what happens when you play it out.
$10.00, a page of paper and a pen. You will see for yourself. Most casinos will cut them more than once on the serious games and as well, many casinos will do a super quick shuffle breaking down the pre-shuffled deck into four sections of 8 and doing a very quick curiosity shuffle, hopefully I expressed that correctly.