Quote from: JohnLegend on November 24, 2012, 06:38:24 PM
Ralph, you know the only reason in my opinion that this game is thought of as unbeatable longterm by the masses. Is humans inherent lack of PATIENCE and STAYING POWER.

You just gave the EXACT reason the majority will never know any different. This works longterm because of the discipline to wait for random to create your bet for you. Instead of Going straight to the table and betting on say red or whatever gives you a quick fix. But when it goes wrong you lose it all.

I can't tell you how many times I saw the fool who thought for example random couldnt show him 12 reds or blacks 12 odds or evens, A dozen sleep for 20 spins. Or a dozen get hit 8 times in a row.That gambler that waits for 3 or 4 reds. Then starts his martingale.

He wins again and again and again. Maybe a 100--200 times in a row. Then it happens staring him in the face is 13--14--15-16 or more of his nightmare. it's a stiff drink at the bar time. The total wipeout came saw and conquered.

Why I wait Ralph is simple. IT WORKS. I will happily take a consistent 10/1 month in month out over quick wins and then a total wipeout. In my experience you have to WAIT TO WIN.

All three of the methods that have given me the best results I have yet seen have one thing in common. They WAIT for RANDOM. And there's something re-assuring about doing so. It would appear to me to be the true key to beating this game.

And the reason the 1% will win. While the 99% scratch their head and leave the casino with a face like a pug dog chewing a hornets nest. 

I agree with everything you said JL.  Today was a classic example of "most" players I observe down at the casino.  I sat down next to a gentleman and he is aggresively and nervously puffing away on cig betting inside on as many numbers as he feels will hit.  I sat next to him for almost 20 minutes before I placed my first bet, which was on HIGH...and it lost.   

Placed my second bet on HIGH again and won.

During this whole event, this guy pealed out ...I have no idea how many twenties and kept playing, so I thought I would hang out and observe either this guys breaking point or a great comeback.  It wasn't another 7 minutes and he lost that too, he stood up, spoke the f-word to himself and left the table. 

I see that so many times week in and week out.  That guy is still scratching his head ...

Patience, Confidence, Staying Power, Discipline, Creativity .... are all ingredients in the Hit & Run recipie. 

Quote from: Chauncy47 on November 24, 2012, 08:28:15 PM

I agree with everything you said JL.  Today was a classic example of "most" players I observe down at the casino.  I sat down next to a gentleman and he is aggresively and nervously puffing away on cig betting inside on as many numbers as he feels will hit.  I sat next to him for almost 20 minutes before I placed my first bet, which was on HIGH...and it lost.   

Placed my second bet on HIGH again and won.

During this whole event, this guy pealed out ...I have no idea how many twenties and kept playing, so I thought I would hang out and observe either this guys breaking point or a great comeback.  It wasn't another 7 minutes and he lost that too, he stood up, spoke the f-word to himself and left the table. 

I see that so many times week in and week out.  That guy is still scratching his head ...

Patience, Confidence, Staying Power, Discipline, Creativity .... are all ingredients in the Hit & Run recipie.

That's it Chauncy47. He is what the casinos expect and WANT. We don't give them what they want.

Hi Guys,
I thought i would give Betvoyager a try. Played my first game on the European table yesterday and won on 3 EC bets. Played a game later on the no-zero table and again won all 3 EC bets 
I thought great i have somewhere else to play. Fired up the European table this morning and had a TRIPLE LOSS. All 3 EC's lost in the same game, my first game 

I have not had a double loss live. Not sure i should play on BV again with PB.
Sooooooo annoyed with myself 

Quote from: shogun on November 25, 2012, 06:41:48 AM
Hi Guys,
I thought i would give Betvoyager a try. Played my first game on the European table yesterday and won on 3 EC bets. Played a game later on the no-zero table and again won all 3 EC bets 
I thought great i have somewhere else to play. Fired up the European table this morning and had a TRIPLE LOSS. All 3 EC's lost in the same game, my first game 

I have not had a double loss live. Not sure i should play on BV again with PB.
Sooooooo annoyed with myself 

Shogun that doesn't make me feel too confident as I am playing my challenge on there. Hard to believe. How much did you stake?

don't give up just yet Shogun, im playing on there and its been very fair since I started. Even now I am playing for Euros I am 12/1. You were incredibly unlucky to land on that. But you may not ever hit it  again.

What im doing is playing for one win then closing down now. My original way, I lost my very first game yesterday on ODD EVEN. Said okay, doubled stakes and won on HIGH LOW. Then came back five more times and recovered the loss and went to a new high..

So stay with it for a while. Twister sums it up perfectly. With LIVE you definately know random beat you. With RNG there's always a slight doubt. I've never felt I was being cheated.

If it kept throwing double losses or trebles at me. Then you know somethings wrong. But my overall strikerate is 12/1. After 192 games. And that's EXACTLY what I expect it to be around.

So my advice Shogun is PLAY ON. But just play for single wins then shut down. 

Hi John,
I think you maybe right. I could have entered the game at the wrong time.
I will not give up on BV just yet. I will lower my unit value and play for a 1 unit win. See what the results look like.
I was playing with 5 euro units so it was a total loss of 105 euros.
Live is still going well 

Quote from: shogun on November 25, 2012, 07:45:32 AM
Hi John,
I think you maybe right. I could have entered the game at the wrong time.
I will not give up on BV just yet. I will lower my unit value and play for a 1 unit win. See what the results look like.
I was playing with 5 euro units so it was a total loss of 105 euros.
Live is still going well 

Live will always go well Shogun. I have a 4 year history with it. it's a winner. Yes my only doubt about BV is what happens when you rise to higher staking.

While you are playing with pennies or smaller stakes 1 or 2 euros. I don't think they will bother with you. But from 5 euros up? Time will tell.

So yes play the 1 euro bets, and stay with it and see if your overall strikerate after say 100 games is somewhere in the region you expect. DROP RED BLACK THOUGH. DROP IT. 

I stopped playing Red/Black live. Thought i would try it on BV. I will drop it here as well.
John so you play for a 1 unit win and then what? When do you play your next game?

Thanks.

Quote from: shogun on November 25, 2012, 08:16:05 AM
I stopped playing Red/Black live. Thought i would try it on BV. I will drop it here as well.
John so you play for a 1 unit win and then what? When do you play your next game?

Thanks.

Okay I do play the double. But no trebles. I log in play for ONE WIN and logout. Come back later and play another. Im 192/14 doing it that way.

I had 7 patterns in 21 spins yesterday so doubled stakes. If I lose a game I will double stakes for the next couple of games.

I've never lost the first game of the day twice in a row EVER live or RNG. So today I would expect to win my FIRST GAME. All these things you consider.

Great thanks for your help John.

Quote from: shogun on November 25, 2012, 08:27:02 AM
Great thanks for your help John.

You are very welcome Shogun. Your confidence and knowing what to expect grows with time and experience.

That's why I don't worry about Subby for example. He will get wherever he wants to go. If he sticks to the task. Random doesn't do things evenly. Its OVERALL you look for. Longterm. When you get that 15 plus winning streak.

And it goes past 20, 25 possibly even 30. I've had them. So start to wonder when its going to lose. Get on top of a 40 plus. And you know why you play H.A.R 

Quote from: shogun on November 25, 2012, 06:41:48 AM
Hi Guys,
I thought i would give Betvoyager a try. Played my first game on the European table yesterday and won on 3 EC bets. Played a game later on the no-zero table and again won all 3 EC bets 
I thought great i have somewhere else to play. Fired up the European table this morning and had a TRIPLE LOSS. All 3 EC's lost in the same game, my first game 

I have not had a double loss live. Not sure i should play on BV again with PB.
Sooooooo annoyed with myself 

Shogun

This is roulette. Just use a common sense here. You lost on BV 3 times with PB in one session. That never happened to John or Pilot. I think that BV already discovered that it may be a winning method and started cheating. And i would stay with R/B.
Pilot played all 3 EC's and had 180 wins in a row. Good luck.

Quote from: Robeenhuut on November 25, 2012, 08:39:49 AM
Shogun

This is roulette. Just use a common sense here. You lost on BV 3 times with PB in one session. That never happened to John or Pilot. I think that BV already discovered that it may be a winning method and started cheating. And i would stay with R/B.
Pilot played all 3 EC's and had 180 wins in a row. Good luck.

Hello Matt I hope youre wrong. Welcome to the forum 

Quote from: Robeenhuut on November 25, 2012, 08:39:49 AM
Shogun

This is roulette. Just use a common sense here. You lost on BV 3 times with PB in one session. That never happened to John or Pilot. I think that BV already discovered that it may be a winning method and started cheating. And i would stay with R/B.
Pilot played all 3 EC's and had 180 wins in a row. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. I will stay with BV a little longer playing for smaller units. More as a test than anything. If i am happy with results i will continue. I may have been very unlucky time will tell.
I do think it maybe be best to leave out Red/Black as i have had more losses with it than the other 2 EC's together.

Does anyone know if there are other playtech casinos that use different tables to Titan or Eurogrand. The tables they use are Aphrodite and Vesta?

Quote from: shogun on November 25, 2012, 09:06:13 AM



Thanks for the advice. I will stay with BV a little longer playing for smaller units. More as a test than anything. If i am happy with results i will continue. I may have been very unlucky time will tell.
I do think it maybe be best to leave out Red/Black as i have had more losses with it than the other 2 EC's together.

Does anyone know if there are other playtech casinos that use different tables to Titan or Eurogrand. The tables they use are Aphrodite and Vesta?

There are two players in the Playtech arena Shogun. The ones you mentioned are used by BETFRED and WILLIAM  (POOR LOSER)  HILL. To my knowledge aswell as others like you stated.

Then there's another feed also Latvian/Lithuanian based? Used by PADDY POWER--LADBROKES. And some other online UK bookmakers. And they are excellent. PADDYPOWER is the best online alround casino IMO. 

Thanks John i will have a look at these.
I have an account at Ladbrokes, used to play a little poker there.