JL - " PATTERN BREAKER is capable of producing. Most of the time YES. you win 6 you lose 1 you win 4 you lose 1. You win 9 you lose 1.
THEN! Something special happens, that random entry into the cycle goes on a winning streak15,20,25 OR BEYOND. "
Quote from: Gizmotron on November 29, 2012, 08:37:02 PM
Sorry to break this to you but that is common of a straight uninterrupted 3 step Marti also. I just created a plain old 3 step Marti with no special waiting for the last of eight patterns and no "HAR" intervals. And guess what? You can't tell the difference between the win/loss sequences for this test and the w/L sequences for PB. They have the same long win streaks as the mumbo jumbo win streaks. Your balloon is popped. This is the definitive "cat's out of the bag" moment. There's no need to wait two years.
I dare any of you to compare PB win streak claims against those of a common 3 step Martingale. Be prepared to be amazed.
Quote from: JohnLegend on November 29, 2012, 08:58:13 PM
Now you know why I play PATTERN BREAKER. YES, YES YES a hundred marthingale methods could do some attractive win loss streaks. But when they go wrong my gawd they go WRONG.
I know what im talking about Giz. And time will show it ALL I promise you all that.
P.S Subby appologies feel free to delete all this back and forth with Giz.
Feel free to discuss the unique marvels of PB's 3 step Martingale. If it's the same thing then why is the Legend's version different? Perhaps he knows exactly when to return to the casino for a blast of the good stuff.
I would like to add to the randomness conversation again regarding any system or PB in this case. I am stating this from a place of pure observation, nothing more, nothing less:
I don't think JL is here to compare systems as much as he is sharing his methods that simply work well for him. When he finds something that works, he shares it ... nothing more, nothing less. He is not selling it or pushing it in a book, he is simply sharing his data with the forum.
I am not sure "we" will ever be able to fully understand randomness within the roulette world. We all are trying, that's for sure ...and good constructive conversation like this may finally get us some further understanding :thumbsup: It is my opinion that randomness struggles to repeat certain events, especially at very specific "moments in time. If players like JL and myself simply believe that we will win (playing PB) by betting against the last pattern forming and it works for us and we are successful at it, then players like JL and I are catagorically 100% correct. However, if there are players the don't believe that PB is any better than another system or produces the results claimed, then they are also catagorically 100% correct. It simply doesn't matter what side of the fence you are on, it simply matters what you believe and what works for you. Again, just sharing ....
Quote from: Chauncy47 on November 30, 2012, 01:58:47 PM
I would like to add to the randomness conversation again regarding any system or PB in this case. I am stating this from a place of pure observation, nothing more, nothing less:
I don't think JL is here to compare systems as much as he is sharing his methods that simply work well for him. When he finds something that works, he shares it ... nothing more, nothing less. He is not selling it or pushing it in a book, he is simply sharing his data with the forum.
I am not sure "we" will ever be able to fully understand randomness within the roulette world. We all are trying, that's for sure ...and good constructive conversation like this may finally get us some further understanding :thumbsup: It is my opinion that randomness struggles to repeat certain events, especially at very specific "moments in time. If players like JL and myself simply believe that we will win (playing PB) by betting against the last pattern forming and it works for us and we are successful at it, then players like JL and I are catagorically 100% correct. However, if there are players the don't believe that PB is any better than another system or produces the results claimed, then they are also catagorically 100% correct. It simply doesn't matter what side of the fence you are on, it simply matters what you believe and what works for you. Again, just sharing ....
This debate will go on forever Chauncy, its about more than winning and losing.
Its about people questioning their own intelligence. Its not like faith where you believe in god while you can't prove god exists.
Its about an aspect of the game that maths probability have a weaker grip on. People like to feel they are in control. They know that after A you have B. H.A.R throws that out of the window.
Because you just don't know what it might show you. And at its best. At its VERY BEST. It will give you the edge required to win against this game.
I could never and will never beat this game playing like the masses. But I will always beat this game playing as I now do.
So this works because of H.A.R. How do you know when to run? How do you know when to hit? This question is to all that are doing well with PB.
Quote from: Gizmotron on November 30, 2012, 06:46:54 PM
So this works because of H.A.R. How do you know when to run? How do you know when to hit? This question is to all that are doing well with PB.
YOU don't. But like I keep saying, its HARDER TO LAND DEAD ON TOP OF A LOSS,(H.A.R) THAN IT IS TO TRAVEL TOWARDS A LOSS (CONTINUOS PLAY)
That is what I believe makes H.A.R a superior way to approach the game. And the bigger the odds the more dramatic its effect can be. Playing one of my other methods FIVE I have a strikerate of 1,425/1 When probability says 80/1.
Playing another of my methods 8 ON 1. I currently have a strikerate of 605/0 When probability says 242/1 And 8 ON 1 hasnt even been challenged ONCE YET. Tests show neither method would make those numbers in continuos play.
Hey Gizmo,
Do not overemphasize this topic. You have already said so many things about it. Has PB become a subject of research? Shouldn't we focus our attention towards other constructive things than keep on debating over PB.
Quote from: KingsRoulette on November 30, 2012, 07:32:41 PM
Hey Gizmo,
Do not overemphasize this topic. You have already said so many things about it. Has PB become a subject of research? Shouldn't we focus our attention towards other constructive things than keep on debating over PB.
Kingsroulette, its only the beginning im afraid. Success attracts attention.
Quote from: JohnLegend on November 30, 2012, 04:17:42 PM
Its about an aspect of the game that maths probability have a weaker grip on.
Implying you have a strong grip on it. All right,
I'll bite. What is it about probability that's weak
in your 'aspect' of the game that lets you win
more than lose. Go into detail, show us why
this works.
Quote from: spike on November 30, 2012, 07:39:53 PM
Implying you have a strong grip on it. All right,
I'll bite. What is it about probability that's weak
in your 'aspect' of the game that lets you win
more than lose. Go into detail, show us why
this works.
Is that you in the Avatar Spike or Billy Idol lol? I don't have an exact answer. My theory is simple. ITS HARDER TO LAND DEAD ON TOP OF A LOSS, THAN TO TRAVEL TOWARDS A LOSS.
That's all there is to it. And the greater the odds the more awesome the winning streak can be. That's why even with a method like PATTERN breaker, which only has paper odds of 7/1. People are stringing together streaks in excess of 20. Subby is currently on a streak of 21.
Quote from: JohnLegend on November 30, 2012, 07:46:11 PM
I don't have an exact answer. My theory is simple. ITS HARDER TO LAND DEAD ON TOP OF A LOSS, THAN TO TRAVEL TOWARDS A LOSS.
Which is meaningless. You don't know how the math
for your own system works, you don't know how it
wins, you know nothing about probability or the nature
of random outcomes. You're the guy who strapped
on some balsam wings and jumped off the barn roof
and didn't die, so now you're an expert on winged
flight. Keep jumping, Lindbergh, the truth will eventually
catch up to you.
Quote from: spike on November 30, 2012, 07:56:27 PM
Which is meaningless. You don't know how the math
for your own system works, you don't know how it
wins, you know nothing about probability or the nature
of random outcomes. You're the guy who strapped
on some balsam wings and jumped off the barn roof
and didn't die, so now you're an expert on winged
flight. Keep jumping, Lindbergh, the truth will eventually
catch up to you.
Spike I only need to know it WORKS. I leave all the number crunching to maths boys like you. Its held for over 4 years. And its so far ahead. I would have to lose 200 times in a row just to half my profit.
You keep number crunching, the winning goes ON.
The reality of PB or any other system that produces more wins than losses, based on this discussion of randomness, is that "we" may not be able to explain why it works. We believe we know why it works. I believe I know why it works. It's my opinion that the answer is simple: This method is not for everyone.
I over hear this old saying time and time again while I am down at the casiono each night: "The ball has no memory." Really? No kidding! The ball also doesn't understand math such as 7/1, ...and it doesn't understand probability and it doesn't understand black or red or even or odd or high or low. Quite frankly, the ball doesn't care or understand Pattern Breaker either.
Players like JL, me and some others, simply believe that randomness has limitations at very specific moments in time. And so we believe that we can take advantage of those moments and win most of the time -regardless of the system. And because we believe in that concept combined with believing in patience, good smart money management, discipline, creativity, open mindedness, etc.... It works very well for us. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am not here to debate with anyone about PB, Code 4, P4 or any of the other great methods ... I am simply offering some insight to why we think the way we do and why we are comfortable playing these methods.
Quote from: Chauncy47 on November 30, 2012, 09:11:51 PM
The reality of PB or any other system that produces more wins than losses, based on this discussion of randomness, is that "we" may not be able to explain why it works. We believe we know why it works. I believe I know why it works. It's my opinion that the answer is simple: This method is not for everyone.
I over hear this old saying time and time again while I am down at the casiono each night: "The ball has no memory." Really? No kidding! The ball also doesn't understand math such as 7/1, ...and it doesn't understand probability and it doesn't understand black or red or even or odd or high or low. Quite frankly, the ball doesn't care or understand Pattern Breaker either.
Players like JL, me and some others, simply believe that randomness has limitations at very specific moments in time. And so we believe that we can take advantage of those moments and win most of the time -regardless of the system. And because we believe in that concept combined with believing in patience, good smart money management, discipline, creativity, open mindedness, etc.... It works very well for us. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am not here to debate with anyone about PB, Code 4, P4 or any of the other great methods ... I am simply offering some insight to why we think the way we do and why we are comfortable playing these methods.
EXACTLY, you either open your mind to this or keep it stuck in a maths journal.
Exactly the point I've been making forever. Random doesn't care about any of it. It is and it does. All we do is find a method to play small frames and if its good we collect more profit than we lose over the longterm. That's what PB does today, tomorrow forever. Take it leave it.
It will still be working a thousand years from now. :forbidden:
Quote from: JohnLegend on November 30, 2012, 08:14:19 PM
Spike I only need to know it WORKS.
Sigh. But you don't know that it works, that's
the point. Its like the drug company releasing
a new drug to the public cause it works on rats.
"Hey, we only know that it works, good enough
for us." that's how Thorp changed BJ forever.
There were card counters for decades before
Thorp. But he showed HOW it works and WHY it
works and proved it with the math.
I say take your system to the casino and throw
money at it, you'll find out the truth soon enough.
Quote from: Chauncy47 on November 30, 2012, 09:11:51 PM
simply believe that randomness has limitations at very specific moments in time.
that's because you don't understand the nature
of randomness. The casinos understand it inside
and out. Randomness has no strengths and it
has no weaknesses. None. It is what it is. And
it is what it is all the time. Death doesn't take
holidays and neither does randomness.
Quote from: spike on November 30, 2012, 10:13:32 PM
Sigh. But you don't know that it works, that's
the point. Its like the drug company releasing
a new drug to the public cause it works on rats.
"Hey, we only know that it works, good enough
for us." that's how Thorp changed BJ forever.
There were card counters for decades before
Thorp. But he showed HOW it works and WHY it
works and proved it with the math.
I say take your system to the casino and throw
money at it, you'll find out the truth soon enough.
Been doing that 4 years now. Its taking its time showing me. But youll learn. Just keep popping in and out of this forum over the coming years. And see if you can still push that attitude even a year from now.
Quote from: JohnLegend on November 30, 2012, 10:24:02 PM
But youll learn. Just keep popping in and out of this forum
LOL! I'll learn? Listen sonny, you think you're the first
math illiterate poseur who's been bamboozled by his
own inexperience and thinks he has
an earth shattering-casino changing system that will
make him a quadzillionaire? Get in line, the bodies of
those who came before you are in your rear view mirror.
I'll learn? I can tell if a system will work or not by examining
it for about 20 seconds. Yours took about a second and
a half.
Gizmo/spike you don't like the PB method...fine...
JL and others...you DO like PB and know it works for you.
Lets just remember to keep this site friendly and everyone respect other opinions without any hint of aggression :love:
The bottom line is....we all want to fleece the casinos :nod:
Spike,
I imagine that by now JL fully understands your arguments.
Your posts seem to be more about goading him into an angry response.
He's not easily goaded so why not cool it.
Trebor
Quote from: Trebor on November 30, 2012, 11:24:25 PM
Spike,
I imagine that by now JL fully understands your arguments.
He reminds me of posters from the old VLS, guys like
Fender1000. He had a system called The Zone. He'd
supposedly been playing it for 5 years, he was woefully
math ignorant, but swore his system never lost, always
made money. He had his faithful followers who believed
every word he said, they were all eventually banned
because of course The Zone didn't work at all in a real
casino. It was only in practice where you could curve fit
the heck out of it that it had any traction. This sure
reminds me of that..
MODERATOR'S WARNINGKindly keep a civil tongue
WITHOUT ATTACKING THE PERSON.
You will cease personal attacks immediately.
We will NOT condone that sort of immature behaviour on THIS forum
Play the ball; not the man.
The simple Forum Rules are there to be read and observed by all -- including you.
Your current line of posting is deliberately provocative and destabilising.
It clearly contavenes this forum's "... light-hearted and productive spirit." (See the Rules)
Continue down this path and you will provoke your own exclusion from the forum...
Just to add some more to the conversation about randomness and looking at it from the casino side of the fence and then a little bit from mine. It doesn't appear as if the casino's fully understand randomness either. If they did, they wouldn't need to apply "house edge" rules such as table limits or the single or double zero. In some respect, that actually offers some comfort to me as a player.
What a great game this is ... it allows us to challenge ourselves, our thinking, and work on discipline, strategize, along with the power of observation ...and then we get to come here and share ideas about it. The best part of all, we get to have fun doing it! Every time I walk into the casino, I am captivated by the people, the environment and I always see something new. This game offers so many little tiny opportunities that can be taken advantage while waiting for a trigger and if you are one those people who learn to see those opporutnites and jump on them, it can really add to the success of your game.
Quote from: Chauncy47 on December 01, 2012, 12:49:18 PM
Just to add some more to the conversation about randomness and looking at it from the casino side of the fence and then a little bit from mine. It doesn't appear as if the casino's fully understand randomness either. If they did, they wouldn't need to apply "house edge" rules such as table limits or the single or double zero. In some respect, that actually offers some comfort to me as a player.
What a great game this is ... it allows us to challenge ourselves, our thinking, and work on discipline, strategize, along with the power of observation ...and then we get to come here and share ideas about it. The best part of all, we get to have fun doing it! Every time I walk into the casino, I am captivated by the people, the environment and I always see something new. This game offers so many little tiny opportunities that can be taken advantage while waiting for a trigger and if you are one those people who learn to see those opportunites and jump on them, it can really add to the success of your game.
To add to what Chauncy says here, I've long believed RANDOM has virtual limits, points it can rarely pass.
Identify those limits, then forge a method to exploit them. And the games for the taking. Sit back and give the negatives of the game too much respect. And another 300 years from now people will still believe a myth. I.E that its impossible to profit from this game in the long run.
Casinos don't win from this game because of house edge, random or house limits. They continue to win (and always will overall) because of what's lacking in the people who PLAY THIS GAME.
If you could clone a Subby or Chauncy47. And send 10s of thousands of them to casinos all around the world. A big noise would be made in the gambling world. And the game would be in trouble. Thankfully human nature being what it is. This will never happen.
And only an elite few, who can apply themselves to this game properly and consistently will prosper over the long-term. That is how its always going to be. That said, my goal is to make it be known. The game is indeed for the taking. If you can step up to the plate with the right set of mental tools.
And the few that do, have a prosperous future ahead of them... :thumbsup:
QuoteHe reminds me of posters from the old VLS, guys like Fender1000
LOL Spike, do your homework mate, he IS/WAS Fender1000
Quote from: MarignyGrilleau on December 03, 2012, 12:58:33 PM
I am sorry but i never saw any verifiable results. None of this hit rates actually happened in your "challenges" both with Bayes' RNG and BV.
:scared:
Marigny its ongoing. Look at the BV challenge summertime next year. And tell me you don't see major progress.
An acorn doesn't turn into an oaktree overnight. Watch as the months roll by.
Quote from: JohnLegend on December 03, 2012, 02:01:41 PM
Marigny its ongoing. Look at the BV challenge summertime next year. And tell me you don't see major progress.
An acorn doesn't turn into an oaktree overnight. Watch as the months roll by.
Still your hit rate is so much better in private...
Quote from: MarignyGrilleau on December 03, 2012, 02:20:39 PM
Still your hit rate is so much better in private...
Actually no, Subby is matching my hit rate for PATTERN BREAKER. Others have surpassed it. The handful of people who REALLY put their heart into it will get close or surpass my numbers.
The lazy can't be bothered types will just stand on the sidelines repeating. Einstein said it can't be done. So it can't be done.
My job is to show/prove. That it most certainly can be done.
Still your hit rate is so much better in private...
This reminds me of the guy who can do a thousand push-ups when no one is looking.
So you want credibility? You want respect? The publicize your hit rate. subby is doing exactly that, so this is not for him.
Don't post a trot from Spielbank that is three years old. We all know you shopped for it until you found one that showed you're a genius. (Harsh, I know!)
Say this: Three days from now, I'll download table 4 from Speilbank and I'll show you what it can do. Name the date and the table.
Today, when I get the time, I will check tables 2,3,4 and 7 with the Stef tracker on the "other" forum.
Now, honestly ask yourself---do you put more stock in today's unpublished numbers or those from three years ago?
Just trying to get us to quit BSing ourselves and do some verifiable testing. In true science, if it's not verifiable, it's just laughed at.
Sam
EDIT: I'll attach the Tally Sheet for the test if any have not seen it. Note the days in advance to be filled in.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on December 03, 2012, 03:54:08 PM
Still your hit rate is so much better in private...
This reminds me of the guy who can do a thousand push-ups when no one is looking.
So you want credibility? You want respect? The publicize your hit rate. subby is doing exactly that, so this is not for him.
Don't post a trot from Spielbank that is three years old. We all know you shopped for it until you found one that showed you're a genius. (Harsh, I know!)
Say this: Three days from now, I'll download table 4 from Speilbank and I'll show you what it can do. Name the date and the table.
Today, when I get the time, I will check tables 2,3,4 and 7 with the Stef tracker on the "other" forum.
Now, honestly ask yourself---do you put more stock in today's unpublished numbers or those from three years ago?
Just trying to get us to quit BSing ourselves and do some verifiable testing. In true science, if it's not verifiable, it's just laughed at.
Sam
EDIT: I'll attach the Tally Sheet for the test if any have not seen it. Note the days in advance to be filled in.
Sam my verification man is Superman. When I reach 4 or 5 hundred euro on BV. Im going over to PADDY POWER. Now im not up on the technical side of screenshots and such. Maybe you or Subby can help me when I get there.
This whole thing is going to get bigger than me Subby or anyone Sam you know that.
Im challenging very established views here that have stood for centuries. And im saying there's more to it than was previously thought/considered.
That's why I persist. When the realization of success and hard cash starts breaking through. Questions are going to start being asked on all levels.
Jl
You're verification is good. I was not speaking of you.
Sam