Im curious about AMERICAN WHEEL.
me and the missus went on a cruise and tried the casino out
American wheel.... I was annoyed they had chose it on a british cruise. I just saw 5.4% h/e and refused to play. Take it or leave it.
So what's the attraction?
Different layout?
Ideas around 0, 00?
Some systems work better?
You don't have a choice....there's no single 0 ?
Id be interested to know
Turner
I never played on an American wheel....but one thing I noticed straight away...
One of the Zeros' has Red number each side of it...
and the other had a Black number each side of it!
When confronted with an unfamiliar wheel layout , either 0/00 or single 0, just play the outside positions EC ,Dozens, or Columns.
ND
American Wheel isn't so bad. If you have any hot-numbers systems you should be okay.
if they scrapped American wheel for European in the Western Hemisphere (and the rest of the world) roulette would become number 1 game everywhere. Now because of this house edge in North America blackjack is more popular.
you may think that 2.7% is not a big difference, but it may become HUGE difference. Now imagine that u play 30 numbers out of 37 or in the case of double zero it is 30 out of 38. You may win 6 chips, but in one case you have 7 losing numbers, in the second 8 losing numbers. So in this case you have 14% more chances to lose. Now think about it -- what if you chose 33 numbers out of 37 (and in case of 00-- out of 38). you have 3 chips to win with 4 losing numbers and 3 chips to win with 5 losing numbers thus increasing you chances to lose --25%!
that's bad.
but the worst disadvantage if you wanna win one chip only out of all. 35 out 37 you play, 1 chip to win, 2 losing numbers. In the case of 00 to win 1 chip you gotta play 35 out of 38. 3 losing numbers. 50% difference with European wheel!!!
Very few American casinos I've been to have the single 0. If you want to play roulette, you play 00. Otherwise, you just don't play.
I am amazed at the number of American players who don't know the difference.
yep...but still most of players play blackjack in North America, not roulette. On a long run casinos would win if they switched to single zero. I guess so. European casinos also love money. But US casinos are more conservative. Europe also had double zero long time ago.
if they did not gain anything from this switch they would not have done it.
Most casinos in my area have 1 or 2 single 0 wheels in the high limit room only...the other 10 tables are all 0/00.
Hello again Turner.
Since you started this thread on July 4th the below thread might be appropriate : )
I looked into the American Wheel myself a while ago.
Can we crack it this time? : )
http://www.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=8910.0 (http://www.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=8910.0)
Great quote in that post you lead us to above
AMK..............Quote
Only scam artists sell an easy way to make a living that doesn't work!
I have to say chaps...................great historical stuff/discussion, on the American wheel there.
Thank you for bringing to forum
AMK. [smiley]aes/thumb.png[/smiley]
Thanks Chris and thank you Turner for discussing the American Wheel again.
An aspect of roulette which is never investigated.
The method cannot be that complicated, no roulette systems really are.
It has to take advantage of an obvious bet selection which the majority of us believe holds the advantage.
Then MM must play the all important role.
Hope there will be some ideas and tests in the coming months............
AMK,
Thanks for having published this informative link.
HAPPY WINNINGS
ND
ATLAS SHRUGGED.
I believe 'Number Six' dropped a few clues in his post over on VLS without going into the specifics of it all.
He wrote........
''I recently came across an article by a mathematician, which I mentioned in another thread, who said the layout of the American wheel is so inferior to the Euro one that it can be cracked, like your friend Bob has claimed. I mean, Pascal, who is the father of the Euro wheel, was a genius - not even he could beat his own game! The American wheel, though, was designed to accommodate the 00 and increase the house edge. Mathematically not much thought went into the distribution of the numbers around the disc. I believe there are ways to engineer bets based on the analysis of the disc layout.''
I have never really paid much attention to the 00 wheel because casinos only use the single 0 here in the UK and over in Oz. (however the Crown in Melbourne have a unique feature on their low limit tables. It's a double zero added on to the single zero wheel)
So I had a good look at the 00 wheel tonight and I can see what Number Six is getting at.
Going to the left of the 00 shows 1 and 13.
Going to the right of the 0 shows 2 and 14.
Next to the 1 and 13 are 36 and 24.
Next to the 2 and 14 are 35 and 23.
Can anyone spot the pattern?
You have 4 splits there...
1/2, 13/14, 23/24 and 35/36.
This pattern runs all the way around the disc.
There is definately scope for a good strategy using the 00 wheel.
It also helps to look at the 1st or 3rd columns to play for a 00 wheel. Those numbers are wheel-neighbor friendly.
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on July 23, 2013, 06:01:07 AM
It also helps to look at the 1st or 3rd columns to play for a 00 wheel. Those numbers are wheel-neighbor friendly.
Thanks Proof
I love a challenge and so I am going to try and come up with something different for the 00 wheel.
It is a fascinating layout on the disc.
I looked further into the available splits....
So I am going to the left of the 00 and to the right of the 0 taking 2 numbers at a time and putting them in numerical order.
1,13
2,14 (splits 1/2 + 13/14)
24,36
23,35 (splits 23/24 + 35/36)
3,15
4,16 (can't use these as splits)
22,34
21,33 (can't use these as splits)
5,17
6,18 (splits 5/6 + 17/18)
20,32
19,31 (splits 19/20 + 31,32)
7,11
8,12 (splits 7/8 + 11/12)
26,30
25,29 (splits 25/26 + 29/30)
9,28
10,27 (can't use these as splits)
What's also interesting looking at these groups of 4 numbers is how most of them are grouped in a kind of 'finales' order.
1,2,13,14 = 1,2,3,4
23,24,25,26 = 3,4,5,6
3,4,15,16 = 3,4,5,6
21,22,33,34 = 1,2,3,4
5,6,17,18 = 5,6,7,8
19,20,31,32 = 9,0,1,2
7,8,11,12 (this one does not work)
25,26,29,30 (this one does not work)
9,10,27,28 = 7,8,9,0
So plenty there to have a look at. There is certainly more order in the 00 wheel than the single 0 disc arrangement IMO.
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on July 23, 2013, 06:01:07 AM
It also helps to look at the 1st or 3rd columns to play for a 00 wheel. Those numbers are wheel-neighbor friendly.
I was told the second column was more wheel-friendly. I suppose "wheel-friendly" means the numbers are adjacent to each other on the wheel. I'll have to take a gander at one.
Sam
Second column dominates an entire portion of the wheel around the 0. If you play big sectors you can cover a big continuous section of the wheel with a second column bet. But the true bet for the wheel sector containing the second column is a 15 number inside bet.
For the 15 number bet you just go right down the second column with the exception of numbers 8 and 29...then pick up their felt neighbors 7 and 9 and 28 and 30.
So you bet 0, 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 27, 30, 32, 35. For the big wheel sector....or just bet the second column and figure you have it covered for the most part.
Obviously that leaves you with the 2 column bet for the alternative. Can be pretty useful information in the right circumstances...isn't that the truth on everything regarding roulette though?
DS 0 00 1 2 3
DS 7 8 9 10 11 12
DS 25 26 27 28 29 30
What makes Bob's bet more mysterious is this statement:
Which means you just like the end seat too and could be betting the dozens
as well, or there's something else about the columns I didn't mention....(Simon)
The end chair is crucial to my method. Without it ... I don't play.(Bob)
If it's all about the columns on a 00 wheel...
The second column pretty much covers the one wheel sector and then you would alternatively play 1st and 3rd columns together as a counter....in the simplest form of analysis
If the croupier or air ball machine or whatever/whoever is spinning the wheel and tossing the ball had a "signature" it would seem a method could be devised.
Playing 12 and 24 numbers at a time has a real problem with recovery when the drawdown happens and you are in "recovery mode" though. If the bet selection method could be honed enough I could almost understand the 2nd column bet with the 2:1 payout...but I have just never personally been a fan of 1 to 2 payout on the double column play...but then I prefer a single inside number or maybe even 2 or 3 inside numbers if I'm really feeling aggressive ;) ...but we all play different.
If I were looking at a method for the 00 wheel based on columns...I would look for wheel sector trends and bet accordingly.
More than I expected chaps. Thanks. Second column vs 1&3 isn't a shabby idea. Im booking a cruise for our 30th wedding aniversary. Bound to be an american wheel on the ship.
I've got this idea to share here goes: (American Wheel only)
If the 1st column hits, bet the second column once.
If the 2nd column hits bet the third column once.
If the 3rd column hits, bet the first column once.
Progression: 1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3 (stop). Back to one unit on a win.
Ok this is my territory ,,, but i am not expert on American wheel ...
I find this selection in Laurance Scoot book volume 2 ...
Line 2 and 5
It create a nice bi-modal bet ...
(https://betselection.cc/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.tinypic.com%2F6733fd.jpg&hash=7dd906b70401bef2bea3affd85a9812cf802a663)
Pst ,,, take a look at Pierre Basieux signature and how number are conected with his bi-modal approch ,,, try do that with the american wheel ,,, very cool stuff ...
Quote : *******The end chair is crucial to my method. Without it ... I don't play.(Bob)********
Besides a lot of Mumbo Jumbo it all boils down to L O G I S T I C S occupying that last seat.
.
He knows when dozens are in his ravor and ditto for the columns .
Nuff said.
ND
Atlas Shrugged !
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on July 24, 2013, 05:38:11 PM
I've got this idea to share here goes: (American Wheel only)
If the 1st column hits, bet the second column once.
If the 2nd column hits bet the third column once.
If the 3rd column hits, bet the first column once.
Progression: 1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3 (stop). Back to one unit on a win.
Thanks for participating proof, whle I was reading your idea, I thought to post if maybe a bit of "timeline play" could be taken into consideration? :)
(i.e. if the 1st column is dominating in the X cycles, when it gets hit again bet the second column once).
-Just putting some more on this brainstorming plate! Cheers. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on July 24, 2013, 05:38:11 PM
I've got this idea to share here goes: (American Wheel only)
If the 1st column hits, bet the second column once.
If the 2nd column hits bet the third column once.
If the 3rd column hits, bet the first column once.
Progression: 1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3 (stop). Back to one unit on a win.
Guess the same goes true for dozens as well. Read it in JP and played flat betting. Grind but worked well
Amazing posts!!!
Great discussion!
The American Wheel.........
I do believe there is an advantage based upon Bobs info that I have seen.
I will try to post all the info I have. It will take a while, have a lot of files to find.
For instance, I know he played in casinos in California : )
Nathan D
You mentioned "He knows when dozens are in his favor and ditto for the columns ."
How do you think he did/does this?
AMK .
Study the American wheel and you shall see. It is not rocket science. As I said before this Bob used a lot of Mumbo jumbo
No wonder the discussion died off.
ND
Atlas Shrugged !
Quote from: Turner on July 24, 2013, 08:18:15 AM
More than I expected chaps. Thanks. Second column vs 1&3 isn't a shabby idea. Im booking a cruise for our 30th wedding aniversary. Bound to be an american wheel on the ship.
Thirty years! Congrats to you both!
TwoCat
Thanks Sam....that's nice...
Shes a magnificent woman.
I've been very very lucky
Quote from: Turner on July 27, 2013, 02:29:31 PM
Thanks Sam....that's nice...
Shes a magnificent woman.
I've been very very lucky
Mediterranean or somewhere else????--as those Med.cruises all 1 zero wheels,some even have
en prison rules.
Hi,
Nine years later, I am scratching my head. It's about time roulette players discover the American wheel.
Nice topic.
Kimo Li
Flat...Looking at mooring up in Menorca as it our favorite place......so...med for sure...however, Thomsons is american wheel.
its not a deal breaker...lol
Deal breakers are
No beer
No sun
stuff food
Being on holiday with my dad.
Non of these will be a problem....[smiley]aes/joking.png[/smiley]
@KIMO
Well....I have never looked at it at all. Its taboo.....hence the topic from me.
I now have some ammo come judgement day.
There are so many interesting things about the American roulette wheel, apart from its 5.26% disadvantage. One tidbit is the number distribution on the wheel is based on high and low and odd and even numbers.
Separated by the 0 and 00 zeros, low odd numbers and high even numbers make up one half of the wheel. The other half of the wheel is the opposite, low even numbers and high odd numbers.
So if you are tracking odd, even, high, or low numbers you would at least have a point of reference as to how the ball is moving.
Kimo Li
Congrats turner
@kimo-is it not the case with eu layout as well. One half has red high and black low. Other half has red low and black high numbers. Again this is only dividing the wheel into half. There is a pattern in which even and odd numbers turn up as well. But that's only when you divide the wheel into 8 equal parts.......
Hi,
There is a distinct difference in the distribution. See below.
AMERICAN
01 03 05 07 09 11 13 15 17 LOW ODDS
20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 HIGH EVENS
02 04 06 08 10 12 14 16 18 LOW EVENS
19 21 23 25 27 29 31 33 35 HIGH ODDS
EUROPEAN
02 04 06 08 10 11 13 15 17 LOW BLACKS
19 21 23 25 27 30 32 34 36 HIGH REDS
01 03 05 07 09 12 14 16 18 LOW REDS
20 22 24 26 28 29 31 33 35 HIGH BLACKS
Kimo Li
Ever wonder what number is next to another number without looking at the wheel head. Here's a tip. See how these double streets are connected by numbered partners.
MINUS 12
01 13
02 14
03 15
04 16
05 17
06 18
SUM OF 49
13 36
14 35
15 34
16 33
17 32
18 31
PLUS 12
19 31
20 32
21 33
22 34
23 35
24 36
SUM OF 27 (With the exception of 01 and 02 / 07 and 08)
03 24
04 23
05 22
06 21
07 20
08 19
Kimo Li
Forgive me Turner, I was too caught up in the American Wheel discussion to register that its your 30th wedding anniversary.
CONGRATULATIONS!!
Let us know how your playing goes and have a wonderful cruise!
ps
I wonder if "The Love Boat" had roulette on board : )
Hello Kimo Li!!
Amazing to have you on the thread, hope the thread will continue for a while.
Do you have any playing styles/methods for the American Wheel that you would recommend for Turner on his cruise??
Congrats on the 30th year anniversary Turner :applause: 8) :applause:
That being the case Roulette may be a distant second on your priorities list.
From the forum with love* [smiley]cps/heart.gif[/smiley]:
[attachimg=1]
Happy 30th to you & the Mrs. dear Turner.
[smiley]cps/hearts.gif[/smiley]
*: wish I was this talented in the dough art to bake such a cake! Likewise goes with [smiley]skype/heart.gif[/smiley]
Let's be around for the 40th!!
Im bowled over by your nice words guys...HOWEVER
I only said .......Im booking a cruise for our 30th wedding aniversary
I didn't say when it was.....
Its not for 2 years...... :-[
However.....it was our anniversary of 30 years together June 8th .....so....THANKS!
Yes....we lived over the brush for 2 years (not sure that saying carries out of UK)
I hope i can still keep the cake?
Quote from: Turner on July 28, 2013, 05:23:46 PM
Yes....we lived over the brush for 2 years
[attachimg=1]
Bally....how astute of you!!!
My favorite comedians of all time....Bob Monkhouse, Kenneth Williams, Spike milligan
Nowedays....Harry Hill, Tim Vine
neeeoooooh matron!!!!
Getting back to the American Wheel again for a bit. I found this interesting comment on another forum. Perhaps we have eluded to this before but don't think so.....
(for new people, a trustworthy player back in the 90's (Bob) said he had a winning method for the American Wheel because the layout gives the player an advantage)
I assume you are referring to the fact that on the American wheel large clumps of adjacent numbers can be bet on the layout without resorting to straight up bets. This cannot be done on the European wheel. This fact is of use to both AP and system players, and can help to reduce the effect of the larger HE. I have never seen or played on an American wheel But a glance at a picture will confirm this fact. Incidentally I have referred to this several times on this forum and I even mentioned it in this thread.
The numbers on the second column are more clustered than the other two or the dozens. I had a piece on it, but can't find it.
Sam
most of the second column is clustered together but if you want to go with a 15 number bet and split the difference in payout between a dozen and an EC you play the following numbers
0, 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 28, 30, 32, 35 (you skip the 8 and 29) numbers in red are obviously departures from the second column
you can also play the second column and the 7 and 28 streets along with the 0 or 0/00 at that point to make it an 18 number bet and keep the chip count down if you need to...the calculations get a little complicated on a real wheel if the table isn't busy if you are trying to keep everything even up on the units once you start mixing in streets and the 0/00 split...on a real wheel you are also looking at a decent size bet compared to what alot of the online players seem to be accustomed to (especially if you are playing a progression)...no 10 cent bets inside on any real wheels I've seen.
The straight up 15 number bet at the top of my response kinda looks like hopscotch when you lay it out on the felt...so it's easy to remember