Short imbalance "Which can not happen!" Be aware beginners, this happen all the time!
The pictures shows 40 spins on a fair wheel. FLT was the right method.
Very black! Not rigged, we suspect i only if we lose.
Take that, all you naysayers of the Elegant Pattern. Unless you have the IQ of a good round of golf, anyone could have become a millionaire with this. That ends this argument forever.
Flatbet red for 40 spin, loss is 9 units.
Flatbet 37 spins on red 1 units plus, still 8 back on red. The change can take time, if I went with black FLT I should winn more. This about 120 spins gave anyhow 28 +, . could be some more if I bet black all the time. "What is due?"
Wait, are those two marques one after another or separate sequences of 21 spin???
Quote from: Drazen on January 26, 2013, 05:04:20 PM
Wait, are those two marques one after another or separate sequences of 21 spin???
Those spin is in a row, no spins in between!
z = (w - np) / √(np(1 - p))
Z= (4-42) / sqrt (0.48(1-0.48))
Z=5.13
Impressive one, I have personaly seen this also.
Beauty of this game!!! :love:
Too bad you can't avoid this, like with hit and run as some are saying it is possible C:-) haha
Cheers
Drazen
I get some more red now, but not catching up yet. Sometimes it takes the time.
If it is bad or not depends on what you were betting, follow the last is OK but if I went for a positive progression! I did not.
And there are those who say, "Well, if I had been there when the first black hit, I would have recognized what was going to happen and I would have made a ton of money off those blacks." Malarkey!
Quote from: Ralph on January 26, 2013, 05:31:56 PM
I get some more red now, but not catching up yet. Sometimes it takes the time.
Sometimes it never happens. Not in a realistic time span. Maybe in a thousand years it will catch up. Maybe in the next hundred spins.
Ralph, I have an idea. Get one of those brilliant people to tell you when you will get a long trot of reds. But don't hold your breath until one steps forward!
Samster
Quote from: TwoCatSam on January 26, 2013, 05:35:39 PM
Sometimes it never happens. Not in a realistic time span. Maybe in a thousand years it will catch up. Maybe in the next hundred spins.
Ralph, I have an idea. Get one of those brilliant people to tell you when you will get a long trot of reds. But don't hold your breath until one steps forward!
Samster
With follow the last, it does not matter, it is chops which is annoying then.
Quote from: Ralph on January 26, 2013, 05:31:56 PM
I get some more red now, but not catching up yet. Sometimes it takes the time.
Excatly. This is called Regression to the mean and this is a real phenomenon in random process. It only says that given an extreme event, the following event will be less extreme - the most of the time. The stronger deviation it is, next sequence will be closer to the average, and you are on almost far end of deviation strenght. That's a long way from saying that events are going to be somehow pulled back to balance in the short term. In fact the opposite is the case - RATIOS will tend to balance, but not absolute numbers, which is actually diverging as you get more results.
In this case you shouldnt expect that red will catch up soon, but you can be sure that in the next sequence won't be more deviation as this was. You can't expect anything for sure but average distribution, so around 20 for each EC.
Cheers
Drazen
ND of course I have nothing to do making all blacks, I did follow the last, so I got some.
Still it is blacks dominant after about 200 more spins. It is streaky too, so follow the last works at the moment.
One does not need to be brilliant to get on a long streak of either Black or Red . You just have to know H O W to commence with the proper way of betting to get you there.
RIEN NEVA PLUS.......................
Nathan Detroit.
I end the session now. it is about 300 spins, mostly and much black, and very few chops.
I bet 0.01 and followed the last, did som sporadic parlay.
"the most of the time."
That is like sticking your neck in the guillotine and saying, "Most of the time the blade will not fall."
Sam
@Ralph
Please know that of all the people one these forums, I respect you in the top three! Not meaning to be argumentative.
I ran a bot for millions of spins. All we bet was one EC hoping it would pull ahead. "the most of the time" it did. But not always. Red would out pace black for thousand--literally--thousands of spins. In one night I lost 34,000 units waiting for an EC to catch up. There is simply no logical reason to know to a certainty that things will even out.
I believe in "statistical pressue" as outlined by R.D. Ellison, but it is only a pressure to move toward the mean. Sometimes it is not enough pressure!
You are one of the few who talks his talk and then walks the walk. Most people are "ex post facto" bettors who tell you what they "woulda" done had they been there. "Oh, I knew that horse would win! I just couldn't get to the window."
I don't see any screen shots from them like I do from you.
Sam
Thanks Sam!
I playing inside now, but I see the red is waking up.
Quote from: Gizmotron on January 26, 2013, 04:51:21 PM
Take that, all you naysayers of the Elegant Pattern. Unless you have the IQ of a good round of golf, anyone could have become a millionaire with this. That ends this argument forever.
Anyone could have become a millionaire betting on a repeater. BUT you have to know its going to happen. Nobody knows.
Quote from: JohnLegend on January 26, 2013, 06:52:58 PM
Anyone could have become a millionaire betting on a repeater. BUT you have to know its going to happen. Nobody knows.
You don't have to know. Nobody knows what the future holds. But you do have to know how to get into it without getting killed off. The same is true of rock climbing. No risk, no gain.
I went to play inside, 0.1 and got looong sleepers. up to 512 units, dangerous progressions I know.
Got an early hit, and over 8000 units plus.
Stoploss if you do not can go on, otherwise you have to start on at a lower level, you must somehow catch up.
Red is slowly catching up! About 500 spins later.
Lol! I call horse pucky. Notice the 3rd dozen is mostly
sleeping. AND it's a black extravaganza? AND its an online
casino? You're looking at an algorithm, ladies and gents.
Too many coincidences. Can I prove it, nope. But like
any good cop, coincidences are for the uninformed.
Believe its real if you like, its your money...
Quote from: spike on January 28, 2013, 07:36:53 AM
Lol! I call horse pucky. Notice the 3rd dozen is mostly
sleeping. AND it's a black extravaganza? AND its an online
casino? You're looking at an algorithm, ladies and gents.
Too many coincidences. Can I prove it, nope. But like
any good cop, coincidences are for the uninformed.
Believe its real if you like, its your money...
You do not know how the random numbers stream from BV is made. IT IS A PHYSICAL SOURCE!
Not any random algoritm!
Quote from: Ralph on January 28, 2013, 07:41:00 AM
You do not know how the random numbers stream from BV is made. IT IS A PHYSICAL SOURCE!
Not any random algoritm!
Or so they say. Trust none of them.
Quote from: spike on January 28, 2013, 08:12:58 PM
Or so they say. Trust none of them.
If I give you 2 x 10000 numbers one from BV and one from a famous BM casino, you have 50% chance to guess which is BV or the BM. Tested by many.
Hey, Ralphster....
It's your money! How much did you say you've made in the last ten days?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on January 29, 2013, 01:07:41 AM
Hey, Ralphster....
It's your money! How much did you say you've made in the last ten days?
Sam
I win so much I am allowed. Since I got 2000, I went over to fun, and I will start real again any day, as soon the withdraw is cleared. The last ten days are always not the same, but current balance for the time is 6176.67. The account says: 17997.67.
I will restart with real in two days with about 200, try to win or lose next month. If 200 is lost I retry once again the same month, otherwise waiting to next playing real, a way to not rush in case of bad luck.
Keep us posted!
Some of us are absolutely lovin' it!!
Sam
Quote from: Ralph on January 28, 2013, 07:41:00 AM
You do not know how the random numbers stream from BV is made. IT IS A PHYSICAL SOURCE!
What physical source? I checked out BV. "In field 3, the player can see the checksum of sequence, computed according to the SHA-256 algorithm."
Algorithm? Randomness Control? Who are they kidding. Everybody, obviously. Did you read their gobblygook explanation of how it works? This is how you get sleeping dozens and massive black dominance. 'Randomness Control'.
I prefer the little ball falling into the pocket.
Quote from: spike on January 29, 2013, 08:44:51 AM
What physical source? I checked out BV. "In field 3, the player can see the checksum of sequence, computed according to the SHA-256 algorithm."
Algorithm? Randomness Control? Who are they kidding. Everybody, obviously. Did you read their gobblygook explanation of how it works? This is how you get sleeping dozens and massive black dominance. 'Randomness Control'.
I prefer the little ball falling into the pocket.
You mix up the randomness controll, with what creating the random stream. That shows you have habit to not check up your statement very close.
Click this link, and you will get some knowledge of how the number stream is created.
http://www.idquantique.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9 (http://www.idquantique.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9)
BV uses a "True" random number generator, not software.
QuoteQuantis uses Quantum Physics to create truly-random numbers
Existing randomness sources can be grouped in two classes: software solutions, which can only generate pseudo-random bit streams, and physical sources. In the latter, most random generators rely on classical physics to produce what looks like a random stream of bits. In reality, determinism is hidden behind complexity.
Contrary to classical physics, quantum physics is fundamentally random. It is the only theory within the fabric of modern physics that integrates randomness. Quantis uses this property to generate random numbers from quantum origin
QuoteAlgorithm? Randomness Control? Who are they kidding. Everybody, obviously. Did you read their gobblygook explanation of how it works?
I beg to differ. In fact, "the little ball falling into the pocket" can be influenced by such things as magnets, so the casino can still cheat you by influencing the ball after you've placed your bet. Not so with the hash algorithm which is completely foolproof. :thumbsup:
Quote from: spike on January 29, 2013, 08:44:51 AM
What physical source? I checked out BV. "In field 3, the player can see the checksum of sequence, computed according to the SHA-256 algorithm."
Algorithm? Randomness Control? Who are they kidding. Everybody, obviously. Did you read their gobblygook explanation of how it works? This is how you get sleeping dozens and massive black dominance. 'Randomness Control'.
I prefer the little ball falling into the pocket.
The hash function is for the purpose of validation that no manipulation is occurring where the casino is targeting or cheating any players. I know I could write a manipulation program for a live wheel. One that would fool the very best players. But you can't cheat if people can actually see the live spins and compare the sessions. Well that's what the hash function is for. You can compare the sequences.
The hash has nothing to do with generating random spin results. Furthermore, There is nobody here that can tell the difference between spins from a modern RNG and the results from a live wheel. I dare anyone to prove they can. Spike says he can. I'm sure someone like Bayes could test him. Long streaks of even chance occurrences or sleeping dozens are not proof of anything more than what is a normal aspect of randomness. I think Spike has a case of magical thinking.
QuoteBut you can't cheat if people can actually see the live spins and compare the sessions. Well that's what the hash function is for. You can compare the sequences.
Gizmo, I would argue that the hash function is safer, because even though you can see the spins on a live wheel, they could in theory be fixing the outcomes. Suppose that they have a sophisticated system of magnets hooked up under the wheel which they're able to turn on and so attract the ball away from wherever most of the chips are placed. They would have to be selective in using this because in the long run (if they activated it every spin) things would even out and there would be just as many players who would gain as lose, and they would also be running the risk that someone might figure out what's going on and place their bets on a sector which has the least chips on it, but for the sake of argument let's say they they have this kind of setup.
If they were, how would you know it? comparing sessions wouldn't necessarily give you proof that they weren't, it might just mean that everyone was being cheated, in fact it's hard to see how it could be any other way.
Bayes, I think you are ready to open your casino. There's nothing like the house edge.
Quote from: Bayes on January 29, 2013, 05:36:58 PM
Gizmo, I would argue that the hash function is safer, because even though you can see the spins on a live wheel, they could in theory be fixing the outcomes. Suppose that they have a sophisticated system of magnets hooked up under the wheel which they're able to turn on and so attract the ball away from wherever most of the chips are placed. They would have to be selective in using this because in the long run (if they activated it every spin) things would even out and there would be just as many players who would gain as lose, and they would also be running the risk that someone might figure out what's going on and place their bets on a sector which has the least chips on it, but for the sake of argument let's say they they have this kind of setup.
If they were, how would you know it? comparing sessions wouldn't necessarily give you proof that they weren't, it might just mean that everyone was being cheated, in fact it's hard to see how it could be any other way.
This one made me laugh out loud Bayes. there's and old Abbott and Costello film where this happens. But its very obvious because of how the ball moves.
Im not saying it doesn't or couldnt happen. But it makes you think. IF, this game is supposed to be bullet proof. And all methods are rubbish waiting to be torn apart by random and the house edge. WHY DO THEY NEED TO CHEAT?
When I've played many times, and I know im at the wheel with another 150 or so players. You see the winners list after a spin. You often see players who have won big. What you don't know is how they played to win what they did. And how many people were playing on that spin.
The casinos rely on the long run to make their profit margin. Most players are foolish and greedy. They are destined to give the casinos their profits and gripe all night when they lose. Most winners are lucky. Or betting huge amounts and covering most of the layout. So when they win it might appear they won a small fortune.
But they had a small fortune at risk. Then there's the smart players. Picking of occasional small profits. Going unoticed. As all the attention is on the big spenders. If there's been any cheating going on in the time I've played online. It hasnt affected me.
Bayes
RE: Magnets
Does the ball have a tiny piece of metal in it?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on January 29, 2013, 06:23:59 PM
Bayes
RE: Magnets
Does the ball have a tiny piece of metal in it?
Sam
It was long time ago. It happens in movies like Casablanca and The Sting!
They sometimes check the ball in BM casino using a magnet!
I'm not suggesting that this kind of thing goes on in B&M casinos any more. My point was that the hash function is the ONLY way you can guarantee you aren't being cheated by "past posting".
I was just playing at BV on the NZ wheel.
It went 25 spins without the 2nd dozen before I logged out.
Who knows how many it would have ended up going to! :o
Quote from: Bally6354 on January 29, 2013, 08:14:49 PM
I was just playing at BV on the NZ wheel.
It went 25 spins without the 2nd dozen before I logged out.
Who knows how many it would have ended up going to! :o
I've seen 33 in a row for a sleeping column while playing. It was the highest paying sleeper that I ever took advantage of. Nobody else there bothered.
How about 39 spins without any dozen repeating? superman will back me up on this, he was there when it happened. :nod:
Quote from: Bayes on January 29, 2013, 09:11:57 PM
How about 39 spins without any dozen repeating? superman will back me up on this, he was there when it happened. :nod:
Yeah nothing special there Bayes. I have 19 recorded 30 plus sleepers for the dozens. I have seen a single dozen hit 11 or more times in a row, 22 times. And a dozen not repeat 30 plus many times.
I've never seen anything break the 40 barrier though. BUT WHO HAS THE PATIENCE? This is where a bot on an RNG holds value. Picking up on the bets no one could do on a live wheel.
39 singles. That's huge. Sometimes roulette is like a free ATM machine.
Quote from: Gizmotron on January 29, 2013, 03:47:45 PM
The hash has nothing to do with generating random spin results. Furthermore, There is nobody here that can tell the difference between spins from a modern RNG and the results from a live wheel. I dare anyone to prove they can. Spike says he can.
Yup. Whenever a casino goes out of its way to
use an algorithm to 'protect' its players and
invents carnival tricks like 'Random Control',
you just know they can be trusted. Reminds me
of when doctors were in cigarette ad's in the
40's certifying that smoking was actually healthy
and caused no harm whatsoever. Everybody
believed that was legit too..
When you come up with a method that wins more
than it loses in the short term, you'll be able to
tell the difference too. I'm not holding my breath
that will ever happen. I've been claiming this for
years and I see no difference in the 'modern' RNG
than the ones they used 5 years ago. Sometimes
when I see them in the casino on those giant
virtual roulette setup's, I marvel that I can't win
10 cents on them. Amazing works of modern tech.
Quote from: spike on January 29, 2013, 11:31:13 PM
Yup. Whenever a casino goes out of its way to
use an algorithm to 'protect' its players and
invents carnival tricks like 'Random Control',
you just know they can be trusted. Reminds me
of when doctors were in cigarette ad's in the
40's certifying that smoking was actually healthy
and caused no harm whatsoever. Everybody
believed that was legit too..
When you come up with a method that wins more
than it loses in the short term, you'll be able to
tell the difference too. I'm not holding my breath
that will ever happen. I've been claiming this for
years and I see no difference in the 'modern' RNG
than the ones they used 5 years ago. Sometimes
when I see them in the casino on those giant
virtual roulette setup's, I marvel that I can't win
10 cents on them. Amazing works of modern tech.
You can trust the randomness control, they can not manipulate after the string is created. But it will not make it impossible to cheat in other ways. They record the play, they have to, to know the players balance. So it would be possible to send a string of numbers and assume the player will not change the play in the near future spins. I have not seen any which should make suspections. And some have for sure made trials playing opposite. You can change the random bits your self too.
Quote from: Ralph on January 30, 2013, 05:07:58 AM
So it would be possible to send a string of numbers and assume the player will not change the play in the near future spins.
True, but they would just be guessing if they did that, so why bother?
Random control isn't a 'carnival trick'. :nope:
Some get paranoiac when the RFH comes. If we search the web, we see many of the martingaler go into problem while wait for 10 or more colors in a row and go bust. They are very sure it is not fair.
4 seven, when we will have 7 eleven?
Quote from: spike on January 30, 2013, 09:53:28 PM
Hmm, they say. What if we run an algorithm (program) that makes
numbers sleep on purpose, most of the time. And we switch it
around a lot. Not specifically sleep due to what numbers are bet,
but sleep in general, far more often than a real wheel.
Because a real wheel does have times when large portions of numbers
sleep, but it also has long periods where nothing sleeps for long.
If you could manipulate that on an RNG wheel, you could easily double
or triple your edge, depending on how greedy you were. And it would be
very hard to get caught because in the end it would fit the math.
But it would be impossible to make every bet on the table sleep longer than average. Players bet all over the table, so how would you ensure that they all run into long sleepers? If you wanted to fix say street 1 so that it continuously slept longer than average, that must mean that other streets were more active than average - the more streets you tried to "fix" into sleepers the more active the remaining streets would have to be. Carry the logic through and you'll see it's impossible, and that's only the streets. It gets worse because not all bets are mutually exclusive, so to make some parts of the wheel sleep would involve making other parts more active and there's just no way to avoid it.
The very nature of roulette would suggest nobody really needs to tamper with the variance.
The average 25/37 numbers ensures a dozen sleeps for 37 spins anyhow most of the time. So actually seeing dozen 2 sleep for 25 spins like I did last night should not really surprise me. It's just that they are neatly packaged in that middle section of the layout which catches my attention.
Quote from: Bayes on January 30, 2013, 11:14:32 PM
But it would be impossible to make every bet on the table sleep longer than average.
You don't need to. Making some part of the table
sleep longer than normal most of the time is very
different than real random, which has periods when
nothing sleeps for long all the time.
We all know online casinos are doing something. When
they first put the RNG virtual roulette setups in Vegas,
years ago, the old time roulette players very soon declared
them worthless. The casinos laughed at them, saying
nobody can tell the difference. But the guys who'd been
playing for decades could. The outcomes weren't 'right',
they were skewed somehow. They avoided them like the
plague and still do to this day.
If you have a way of playing, and you've been doing it for
a long long time, and it doesn't work the same on an RNG,
what should that tell you. What are they making the RNG
do that a real wheel doesn't do. People want so badly
to believe they can play safely from the security of their
homes, they'll kid themselves all day long that RNG wheels
are as safe as their local casino.
"People want so badly
to believe they can play safely from the security of their
homes, they'll kid themselves all day long that RNG wheels
are as safe as their local casino."
YES!! A very good point. :thumbsup:
Assuming just for a moment BV's randomness control is honest (Ralph is cleaning them out very successfully!!), it sure raises issues about the Playtechs et alia who offer no such controls -- apart from reassuring motherhood statements that few experienced players believe.
In fact, I clearly recall a former casino programmer (or so he said) who revealed the shonky nature of RNGs in a forum post. Might have been at RF... Was a while ago...
Quote from: esoito on January 31, 2013, 12:04:03 AM
Assuming just for a moment BV's randomness control is honest, it sure raises issues about the Playtechs et alia who offer no such controls --
Yeah, those all important controls. I have to go back
to the example of cigarettes. The industry knew people
were nervous about their product making people sick,
so they had actual real doctors lie and say cigarettes
did not cause health problems. The industry identified
a problem and took steps to solve it. It got so out of
hand that congress outlawed the practice eventually.
A casino knows players are worried they're being cheated.
So they cook up a 'random control' and the players are
happy as hell. The casino is delighted, as they use another
method entirely to pick the players pocket.
Magicians do it all the time. Have all your attention directed
to one area, while they do their trick when you're distracted.
It's all sheer speculation, and this just goes to show that it's not in the casino's interest to create biased outcomes:
<blockquote>
QuoteThis was really brought home in the last year by a few guys who beat
the program of the airball machine made by IGT, Roulette Evolution. It
happened in Michigan City, IN, at Blue Chip casino. After studying the
numbers for months, having somebody record them 24/7 for god knows
how long, over two weekends they took the casino for over $250,000.
They knew what section was coming next and bet it heavily. I used to
play that machine but quit in 2010 because it just wasn't right, it didn't
feel right.
</blockquote>
Outcomes which are biased can be exploited, random outcomes can't. But let's suppose you're right and RNG results really are "different" somehow from those on a real wheel, it follows that a regular player of RNG could learn those idiosyncrasies and do no worse playing RNG. In fact, someone who is used to playing ONLY RNG might find real wheels to be "not random". And it isn't the case that if they were fixing the results in the short term the long-term math would be the same; if outcomes are continually biased in the short term it would show up in the long term stats, and to claim otherwise is like saying that hit & run works because you only play in the short term - the fallacy being that lots of short terms don't add up to one long term.
Quote from: esoito on January 31, 2013, 12:04:03 AM
"People want so badly
to believe they can play safely from the security of their
homes, they'll kid themselves all day long that RNG wheels
are as safe as their local casino."
YES!! A very good point. :thumbsup:
Assuming just for a moment BV's randomness control is honest (Ralph is cleaning them out very successfully!!), it sure raises issues about the Playtechs et alia who offer no such controls -- apart from reassuring motherhood statements that few experienced players believe.
In fact, I clearly recall a former casino programmer (or so he said) who revealed the shonky nature of RNGs in a forum post. Might have been at RF... Was a while ago...
You can play safely at online live wheels on most sites. RNGS thrive because they satisfy the inherent lack of patience found in most humans.
Everybody virtually is in a RUSH to win. That makes it easy for dishonest sites to take advantage. The get rich quick mentality is alive and well. And will always be the downfall of the masses in this game.
Ralph appears to have broken BV through sheer saturation. Running a bot and coming to the table with a large BR. He bets without fear accepting nerve shakng drawdowns. As he realises random can run. But its running around a playground. And sooner or later the law of averages brings it back to class.
The average Joe would have neither the BR or patience or inclination to do this on a real wheel. This style of saturation play can only thrive with machine Vs machine.
And so it goes on.
I would assume BV knows Ralph is running a bot. Yet they do not ban him. Is there even the slightest possibility this is an honest organization? How many customers will Ralph bring them? How many (me) will lose? He's probably the best P.R. man their money can buy.
I want to buy stock in Ralph, Inc. :nod:
TwoCat
"I want to buy stock in Ralph, Inc."
None left. I've got it all.
Quote from: spike on January 31, 2013, 12:17:26 AM
A casino knows players are worried they're being cheated.
So they cook up a 'random control' and the players are
happy as hell. The casino is delighted, as they use another
method entirely to pick the players pocket.
Except that the other method doesn't and can't work reliably, for reasons I mentioned previously. They can make some locations sleep longer than average, but which locations? and when do they activate the "snooze" button? They would just be guessing - doing it randomly! but in that case the random betting of the players would mean that sometimes it would work for them and other times it would work against them, in other words, the net effect would be zero extra advantage to them. The only way they can be sure to get an edge (and it's a 100% guaranteed one) is to spin a losing number AFTER the player makes his bet, and that's what RC checks.
The only way a casino will be sure of make a profit, is to follow the rules, take the profit from the advantages of the odds.
All other ways is gambling from the casino point, and casinos do not gamble, that's the players role. The casinos are big grinders 2.7% on a very fast turn over with virtually no risk. Just the rumor of dishonest will cost them in less profit.
A casino banning a honest player, show they do not believe the profit is for sure as long either the casinos or the players cheating. The restrictions in winning and table limit are there to guarantee the cash flow, and be able to pay the winners any time.
Quote from: Ralph on January 31, 2013, 08:14:33 AM
The only way a casino will be sure of make a profit, is to follow the rules, take the profit from the advantages of the odds.
All other ways is gambling from the casino point, and casinos do not gamble, that's the players role.
Exactly! :thumbsup:
Quote from: esoito on January 31, 2013, 07:56:05 AM
"I want to buy stock in Ralph, Inc."
None left. I've got it all.
You dog!
Quote from: Bayes on January 31, 2013, 06:24:15 AM
it follows that a regular player of RNG could learn those idiosyncrasies and do no worse playing RNG.
If all RNG's were the same. They're not.
Quote from: Bayes on January 31, 2013, 08:02:26 AM
Except that the other method doesn't and can't work reliably,
The one thing you constantly hear about online
casinos from experienced players is, you see things
on a regular basis that you rarely see in actuals
from a real casino. I know I frequently laugh out
loud when I play RNG's f fun at online casinos. I
can make bets in fun mode and I win for awhile, and
then its like somebody throws a switch, I can't win
at all. Its hilarious, its fun mode, at least let me feel
good in practice!
I would love to test BV but I don't have an account
and there is no fun mode. There is a demo mode,
but is that current results or a recording? Demo
usually means its recorded for demonstration purposes.
Quote from: spike on January 31, 2013, 04:03:13 PM
The one thing you constantly hear about online
casinos from experienced players is, you see things
on a regular basis that you rarely see in actuals
from a real casino. I know I frequently laugh out
loud when I play RNG's f fun at online casinos. I
can make bets in fun mode and I win for awhile, and
then its like somebody throws a switch, I can't win
at all. Its hilarious, its fun mode, at least let me feel
good in practice!
I would love to test BV but I don't have an account
and there is no fun mode. There is a demo mode,
but is that current results or a recording? Demo
usually means its recorded for demonstration purposes.
You are not well informed (as usual) The fun mode at BV is exactly as real mode, and you log in get the history and everthing which is in real. There is a demo mode which you can use too, but then no history. You need an account to play real and fun, the demo mod does not need an account.
Gee, sorry about being so uninformed but we haven't
had online casinos in the US since 2006 and I have no way
to be informed about them. I obviously can't get an
account, so as to my orig question. Is demo mode the
same results in real time as the play for real mode, or
is it different? Demo usually means demonstration mode,
which usually means its recorded outcomes from an earlier
time that they have hand picked for the demo.
Quote from: spike on January 31, 2013, 09:49:21 PM
Gee, sorry about being so uninformed but we haven't
had online casinos in the US since 2006 and I have no way
to be informed about them. I obviously can't get an
account, so as to my orig question. Is demo mode the
same results in real time as the play for real mode, or
is it different? Demo usually means demonstration mode,
which usually means its recorded outcomes from an earlier
time that they have hand picked for the demo.
Foe the reason I have access to fun and real mod I have not look deeply into this, but I have the impression it is not a recorded game. I think it is the same game as real and fun, they have it for trying before decide to open an account.
I looked at the demo and I can't play it. I base everything
I do on past spins and there are none. I have to bet 10
times before I can bet for real. But the biggest problem is
I don't bet every spin. Sometimes I sit out 5-8 spins
without betting. How is this done where the spins are
only advanced if you bet.
"Sometimes I sit out 5-8 spins
without betting. How is this done where the spins are
only advanced if you bet."
You run 'free spins'.
Place chips on all 3 lines shown:
3 units on LOW
1 unit on 19-24
2 units on Doz3
Then click SPIN
[NB: There are other ways as well but that will do the trick.]
Casinos allowing you to bet 0.01 and have such a spread have difficult to allow free spins. There are players try the simple and naive GF like run a bot for days, and just bet after say 16 reds in a row a martingale on the opposite. Some bots are market with recommendations this is a sure way winning.
This takes resources in bandwidth, and long records on the history records. It is for sure not to stop people winning, as it is not a sound and working strategy anyhow. Millions of calls to the server and not any play. Mutual betting can create problems withdrawing at least if it is to wagering for bonus.
I have no use for free spins at all.
Quote from: esoito on February 01, 2013, 02:43:31 AM
Place chips on all 3 lines shown:
3 units on LOW
1 unit on 19-24
2 units on Doz3
Then click SPIN
Good god. I'd rather stick leeches on my forehead
that play this way. Do people really do this? Just
to skip a spin? Give me a pretty girl and a live table
where I can see the ball fall in the pocket and skip
as many spins as I like with my dignity still intact.
A thank you would have been nice, for taking the trouble to try to help you. Just one of life's basic courtesies.
Anyway, lesson learned.
Spike - "Do people really do this?" Of course we do! On a NZ wheel there is absolutely zero risk. It is EXACTLY the same as spinning with no bets on. And you can do it continuously by simply hitting the rebet button. I'm at a loss to understand why this should shock you so.
Nobody said it was a non zero wheel. Just bet R/B at the same time, then, what's the difference. How does a casino make money on EC's on a non zero wheel.
You pay 10% on any winnings.
It used to be 10% on withdrawal.
Now it's per session!
Quote from: spike on February 01, 2013, 04:28:58 PM
Nobody said it was a non zero wheel. Just bet R/B at the same time, then, what's the difference. How does a casino make money on EC's on a non zero wheel.
Equal odds game has a tax of 10% of the winnings, so it is a rake!
The do not allow you to bet red and black at the same spin.
Quote from: Bally6354 on February 01, 2013, 04:31:02 PM
You pay 10% on any winnings.
It used to be 10% on withdrawal.
Now it's per session!
what's the difference. If you won ten sessions of $10 each,
they take $1 from each session. Or they take $10 from the
total at the end of 10 sessions. Its the same amount.
Quote from: spike on February 01, 2013, 09:29:46 PM
what's the difference. If you won ten sessions of $10 each,
they take $1 from each session. Or they take $10 from the
total at the end of 10 sessions. Its the same amount.
yep, but lets say you lose your first session, 50 bucks
they don't take nothing
next day you win 50 bucks - they take 10%
so you should be even now but you are -5$
before the change that wouldn't cost you anything
that's how I understand the change anyway
10% on 10 winning $100 sessions is taking away $100 before you get to the checkout.
That $100 could have made all the difference between winning and losing.
Yep! Before I was on NOZ and after the change I went to Zero, it is the different spread as well, and the 0.01 stakes. You have to end up on plus every time on NOZ to not pay MORE than 10%. If the play is idle for an hour the session ends, it can last 24 hours on NOZ, on Z it can last a week.
I think they has to made this due to they did not got a "decent" profit. Casinos adopt to reality, change the game and defend theire bank as they see the results.
Winning methods can change the rules!
I had reasons to go from NOZ to Z.