Regarding BEAT-THE-CASINO.
I found this on our board, never saw it before.
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"Offline jsb02009
btc lawsuit
on: March 25, 2015, 02:16:45 PM
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Hi,
New to this site. I am looking for fellow members of btc that want to join me in taking ellis and keith smith to court for fraud. I can't believe these scam artists have been running this scheme for so long. My goal is to get members back their money but also prevent future people from being scammed. If you are a btc member that has been scammed please notify me. If we get enough people we can do a class action lawsuit. My wife is a lawyer and I am willing to pay all legal fees."
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You know I wrote somewhere on our board here my short experience with BEAT-THE-CASINO and its owner, Keith.
It was not that long ago, possibly about a year ago??? It was about the time Vic brought BetSelection down for the first time to do some attempted modifications, etc.
I was invited on Beat The Casino by another member of BTC and I knew the member from other boards a little bit over the past few years.
Fact: I went on BTC with a few copy and pastes of my own, my original posts that I just put on here within my Blog I think. The posts were mine, not threads that were common place owned and commented on gossip, just some of my own stuff.
Fact: I was immediately blasted and called out for posting. I was challenged for not properly introducing myself and merging in, I guess. The PM's I received were explaining how the most popular, about 10 members were offended as to my openness, to the point and how I copied and pasted from BetSelection, etc.
Fact: I was contacted by Keith and he told me to 'cool it' and 'chill out' amongst other things. I really only posted i think 5 posts about baccarat and they were all my own info, findings and no gossip or other people's involvement, etc. I was continually for a couple of days blasted and blasted by several of the regular members.
Fact: Then I discovered a regular member with a strong voice on BTC that was a 'side kick' of sorts to a previous message board owner that was heavily involved in baccarat in Vegas among other places. I knew him personally, we gambled together several times, I wrote on his board as well. But that person imploded while playing baccarat for extremely large stakes and wound on in debt well over $500,000.00 with outstanding markers which were or did, turn into criminal charges within the city of Las Vegas. But what got me, was here this regular member of BTC was boasting himself, chastising new members with long standing play history at B&M's casinos, etc., and never stepped up and admitted he was the side-kick to this other person that was highly admired, imploded, lost most everything including non casino related family business assets and all, and related.
Fact: I realized within a couple of days, 2?, 3?, whatever, who ran BTC, the aura, the atmosphere and all the gossip type of stuff going on. Then I realized the sales pitches, the baccarat crawls, the videos and the conferences being sold by Keith.
Fact: Then I was approached and squared off on that, if I did not join up for the $150.00 and $50.00 a month, I was not serious, a fake, a phony, a lair and everything else along those lines, outright and hard.
Fact: I called Keith and demanded in about 4 or 5 text message and/or phone calls, that he remove/delete my posts and that would be that. He challenged me, told me to get off his board and he took at what I said as a physical threat to himself. He also misrepresented to the police department as to how many times I actually phoned him or texted. I said, if push came to shove, I would obtain a certify Verizon phone transcript as to shoe my daily usage and calls.
Fact: Keith went to his local police department and reported me. I received a phone call from a police officer in Keith's township in Pennsylvania. He wanted my side of the story. He said, that I could be charged with threats, etc. I told him I was strictly requesting and demanding my posts be removed by Keith and that was the entire scope and meaning of my communication with Keith. The police officer told me I was not to go on to the site and if I did, I would be prosecuted and charged with criminal actions. I laughed on the phone, I repeated what had happened and told the police officer for sake of peace and to circumvent further problems, I would not go onto that site or contact Keith. The police officer told me worse case scenario was threats and least scenario was harassment.
Fact: It is my opinion that the entire site is a bad influence into the message board/forum industry and is nothing more than a private site, conducted by a person selling and promoting systems, events, and a monthly pay for site, that has a handful of people grouped together that claim huge professional success and elite status.
Fact: IMO and personal experience, the claims to the multi millions of dollars made by several/numerous BTC players each, is fraudulent, fictitious and unproven.
Thanks for that. You were over at Baccaratforums.com, very briefly, around or after the time that we were all egging on "Old SillE". I remember the times I would sign into the old BTC under usernames like EllisLosesAndLies, around 3 am or something. And, then, sit back and watch, for a few minutes, until someone got Aegis out of bed to take it down. Ha, they sent me an authentic looking notice from the FBI about computer hacking crimes. Funny stuff from funny people. He used a lot of cult tactics to lure in the suckers. For six months, we had forced him to take his site off line, with all the constant trolling, etc.
It's good to see ADulay and the gang mostly gone from here. I wanted to help Victor turn this site into real powerhouse, about five years ago, before it went completely to stuff, but he was still involved with the scammers. Ha, it's so funny that Victor is still talking "all new engine" stuff. If he had done a hundredth of what he let on with this site, he would have made it a powerhouse all by himself. Everyone is gone now, all the old and familiar faces.
They have got number of subscribers who are members of the Baccarat Hall of Fame. I wonder where the Baccarat Hall of Fame is located.
When a bunch of members, a few to 10, stick together and endorse each other with everything said, as well as the Admin backs it all up, almost any story can be written and perpetrated. I talk the brutal honest truth with previous trip reports, pictures and everything else. Jealously, over zealously and plain drama is an attention getter as well as a quick way to ruin things.l
Their details and wagering protocols are sketchy as well as partially disastrous, IMO and the opinion from my decades of playing baccarat. Thanks, Glen.
Glen,for your information, BTC does not sell or endorse systems. It is just a forum where players can chat about baccarat. Novices have access to professional players who enjoy helping new players. Like any business, the owner Keith is entitled to charge a fee for membership. He must be doing something right if 42% of his members are paying members.
There are several professional players there that play for a living.
I think it's time your members stop bashing BTC and call it what it really is, "a great Baccarat forum where you can learn from professional players".
I have stated the facts and the facts are correct. Keith actually attempted to have me arrested and charged with a fictitious crime.
Hey, whatever, if I survived the numerous real Asian Triads of NYC, like the Flying Dragons, The BTK (Born To Kill) and the Green Dragons among the couple of other ones of the 80's and 90's, I can survive Keith. LOL.
But he did and I will never forget that. I actually attempted, through invitation to be a part of BTC, but his right hand people chastised and humiliated beyond reason. As well, there is the one well known member there that was a very prominent right hand person to another defunct website Admin and very large short term bac player in Vegas whom lived on the east coast.
The list goes on, sorry.
Quote from: CT70 on September 22, 2018, 04:51:10 PM
Glen,for your information, BTC does not sell or endorse systems. It is just a forum where players can chat about baccarat. Novices have access to professional players who enjoy helping new players. Like any business, the owner Keith is entitled to charge a fee for membership. He must be doing something right if 42% of his members are paying members.
There are several professional players there that play for a living.
I think it's time your members stop bashing BTC and call it what it really is, "a great Baccarat forum where you can learn from professional players".
I agree that Keith is entitled to charge a fee for membership. Keith advertises his forum in "youtube". You will see in "youtube" many others advertising their products claiming they make their living playing baccarat. There are many websites selling baccarat systems.
Baccarat is a negative expectation game. Yet all the guys in the "youtube" and web sites make a comfortable living playing baccarat!
Yes, he us certainly allowed to charge a fee, it's a private website for membership purposes and I don't have a problem with that whatsoever.
I do have a problem with his attitude, his personality and the professionalism of the way he conducts his business and that's personal. I know several people that have paid numerous sums of money and every one of them say they were not giving anything of value.
Again it's subjective to how you handle knowledge, education and information, as well as applying it. On the other hand, I know some of the members and there's one I have extreme problem with. His history and how they conduct themselves as well as what I stated. What I Know is facts and I kept it the facts alone.
Quote from: james on September 17, 2018, 11:50:47 AM
They have got number of subscribers who are members of the Baccarat Hall of Fame. I wonder where the Baccarat Hall of Fame is located.
Right next to the garbage can of lost hopes and dreams.
How true.
Quote from: CT70 on September 22, 2018, 04:51:10 PM
Glen,for your information, BTC does not sell or endorse systems. It is just a forum where players can chat about baccarat. Novices have access to professional players who enjoy helping new players. Like any business, the owner Keith is entitled to charge a fee for membership. He must be doing something right if 42% of his members are paying members.
There are several professional players there that play for a living.
I think it's time your members stop bashing BTC and call it what it really is, "a great Baccarat forum where you can learn from professional players".
Problem is that some members have been around for several years and still can not flat betting and win that way, for example Brad.
That is 600 Euro a year community and you don't learn from others than just your common average methods.
My opinion
One huge problem that so many cannot understand or grasp the atmosphere and realization on forums, boards and the internet.
Which, IMO is:
Lots of people given lots of false input into various wagering topics. That input is vital to those that read it with researching and application intentions, that possibly will not work or cannot work the way it was presented.
There are 2 extremely different atmospheres and content being presented.
1) Talk. Lounges and Courtyard style.
2) Learning. Actual class and detailed presentations and experience conveyed.
When there are one liners that are thrown at everything to derail, disrupt, challenge and upset, it will ruin and remove a whole lot of anything that is attempted to be actually brought forward. Bringing things forward is a super productive positive way to learn and figure things out, IMO. But the side kicks with other members that have no intention of anything positive is the root of evil and utter disruption.
Do any of you remember before the huge internet explosion. What double sourcing and triple sourcing was in the media as well as material being used in schools, etc.?
My little 6 year old actually impresses me to the max at times. He can google, watch something and become familiar with things. Great. But there is no depth or real understanding to most of it. He does what so many lazy adults do. Watches a YouTube video and then convinces himself that he learned something or knows something. But in all actuality he does not understand it. Therefor, he cannot benefit from it and ask the how, why, and apply it to useful or productive learning and traits. He hopefully will soon, but adults do the same as he does because of the atmosphere and the belief in what they just read, watched, etc., is correct, accurate and of course, the truth.
Now we have Google, which can be fake, can be a directed link to something with absolute bad intentions and so often, directed to a single sourced, by proxy written article that is next to worthless. Why am I bringing all this up? Because it is the norm on how the highest majority of everyone wants everything right now, instant, free, proven and guaranteed, etc.
But, this is really a whole separate topic that should be discussed and realized by us.
Quote from: CT70 on September 22, 2018, 04:51:10 PM
Glen,for your information, BTC does not sell or endorse systems. It is just a forum where players can chat about baccarat. Novices have access to professional players who enjoy helping new players. Like any business, the owner Keith is entitled to charge a fee for membership. He must be doing something right if 42% of his members are paying members.
There are several professional players there that play for a living.
I think it's time your members stop bashing BTC and call it what it really is, "a great Baccarat forum where you can learn from professional players".
I've played this game professionally, I've financed world trips frequenting VIP rooms. Last I heard, BTC were still promoting NOR or some derivative.
Let's not mask the fact, it is still a negative expectant game, therefore some form of MM is required, there is simply no way around that. Also any,
all systems when run against a set of truth tables, resolve to 50% without exception, nothing else can possibly exist. The only thing at can be defined is the losing pattern, for what that is worth. All that remains, is the defining what you are prepared to lose against and money management options.
So please, do share what the 42% are paying for, what are they getting? A chance to chat Baccarat?
Not specifically bashing BTC, but those of us whom play Baccarat, should never pay for anything, never pay for any system, not a single one, mathematically everything resolves to a 50/50 state, it is impossible for it to be otherwise. Don't pay for money management strategies, because they are "have been" on the web at one stage or other, including risk of ruin aimed primarily at BJ players.
Luigi, you are correct in that in Baccarat, the overall (PA)player advantage over millions of hands is close to 50%. I will give you that. However, with all due respect, that statistic is not valid for the shoe that?s in front of you now. The shoe in front of you is unique. You will not beat it using the historical statistics of the game.
Baccarat is all about ?determining the length of events and their frequency of occurrence, thru use of statistics?. Once you can do that WITHOUT using a progression (meaning by flat betting only) you can become a consistent winner. That takes years to accomplish. Studying thousands of screenshots etc. The dedication required is no less than what an Olympic medalist would have to go thru to win a medal. Only a hand full of people can do it and most people would put what?s required in the ?too hard? basket. Most would rather just play with an outrageous negative progression to compensate for their inferior hit rate (HR), while hoping that their wins outnumber their losses.
I know you probably think I?m full of stuff because you?ve never witnessed or met a consistent player that can do what I just said. That?s ok, I?m not offended.
All I?m saying is that it is doable. The question is how many of you will put in the hard yards to get there? How many even have the time? All the ones I know are over age 60. It seems that?s when they have the time to really study the game.
Yes, CT70 you are correct in many ways and many ways a seasoned bac player IMO comes to doom himself.
Something I wrote a while back, most probably never read it or seen it?:
"The harder and longer one plays, the more callous and laziness that person becomes to the important info 'signs' trends and values of the sections within each shoe. Weather that is the total number of hours and shoes for the session or the number of years of experience. Same as most workers say for example on a construction site. The newer workers are seemingly alert, watching everything, everywhere, all the time. Never letting their guard down, etc. Super CAREFUL and METICULOUS (!!!!!!!!!!!) with all capital letter and exclamation points after. As the months and years roll ahead, that same person pays less attention and has noticeably less concern for his surroundings. Although he is now experienced and seasoned, he opens himself up to the immediate and surrounding hazards and obstacles he once was worried about, was always conscious about, avoided and stressed over. Eventually there came a turning point where most of those things went into his subconscious. In fact, so many become a bit lazy as well. By the proper definition of the word 'lazy' as in physically lacking output, etc., I am not referring to that. But what just happened with this type of worker, is he just became a bit hard-headed, egotistic and in fact, a bit overconfident. Probably not much different than the highest majority of all bac players that have 'been there and done all that', as the saying goes. And those very same seasoned players I am referring to, will wager 12 times against a Banker run of 15 because of the things I laid out. Then those exact same seasoned players, will win their 16th hand which is the 'cut' to the other side they were so adamantly convinced was going to happen 13 hands ago, they won far less than even because of table limits or their own bank roll. Of course they also missed the 12 streak of the other side immediately coming out next only because, "that is so rare and cannot happen"."
Quote from: CT70 on April 16, 2019, 03:42:20 PM
Luigi, you are correct in that in Baccarat, the overall (PA)player advantage over millions of hands is close to 50%. I will give you that. However, with all due respect, that statistic is not valid for the shoe that?s in front of you now. The shoe in front of you is unique. You will not beat it using the historical statistics of the game.
Baccarat is all about ?determining the length of events and their frequency of occurrence, thru use of statistics?. Once you can do that WITHOUT using a progression (meaning by flat betting only) you can become a consistent winner. That takes years to accomplish. Studying thousands of screenshots etc. The dedication required is no less than what an Olympic medalist would have to go thru to win a medal. Only a hand full of people can do it and most people would put what?s required in the ?too hard? basket. Most would rather just play with an outrageous negative progression to compensate for their inferior hit rate (HR), while hoping that their wins outnumber their losses.
I know you probably think I?m full of stuff because you?ve never witnessed or met a consistent player that can do what I just said. That?s ok, I?m not offended.
All I?m saying is that it is doable. The question is how many of you will put in the hard yards to get there? How many even have the time? All the ones I know are over age 60. It seems that?s when they have the time to really study the game.
I have re-read this again, twice. And more and more, I find your words very familiar and very realistic.
Truly you have been around the block, as that proverbial saying goes.
Thanks for posting! Alrelax/Glen
Quote from: CT70 on April 16, 2019, 03:42:20 PM
Luigi, you are correct in that in Baccarat, the overall (PA)player advantage over millions of hands is close to 50%. I will give you that. However, with all due respect, that statistic is not valid for the shoe that?s in front of you now. The shoe in front of you is unique. You will not beat it using the historical statistics of the game.
Baccarat is all about ?determining the length of events and their frequency of occurrence, thru use of statistics?. Once you can do that WITHOUT using a progression (meaning by flat betting only) you can become a consistent winner. That takes years to accomplish. Studying thousands of screenshots etc. The dedication required is no less than what an Olympic medalist would have to go thru to win a medal. Only a hand full of people can do it and most people would put what?s required in the ?too hard? basket. Most would rather just play with an outrageous negative progression to compensate for their inferior hit rate (HR), while hoping that their wins outnumber their losses.
I know you probably think I?m full of stuff because you?ve never witnessed or met a consistent player that can do what I just said. That?s ok, I?m not offended.
All I?m saying is that it is doable. The question is how many of you will put in the hard yards to get there? How many even have the time? All the ones I know are over age 60. It seems that?s when they have the time to really study the game.
That is utter codswallop, it's like a sales pitch. Is Keith in need of more BR, one wonders.
I average approx 100 shoes per week. I know darn well statistics count for nothing as a shoe unfolds. So please bear me the BS.
Yet you contradict yourself in the next paragraph. Baccarat is all about statistics, for any given session it is not. I've also studied this game for well over a decade and then some. Negative progressions do not need to be outrageous, I use them all the time and rarely bet more than 10 units. You are talking to somebody who has done it, 34 consecutive winning sessions, turning $1k into over $40k.
I'm well acquainted with the 87%, something that was done to death on GG over a decade ago, age has nothing to do with the ability to study game.
I did construct a response having watched over a Doz of BTC youtube videos in the last 24 hours, which I did not post, but shall edit accordingly and post shortly.
Quote from: alrelax on April 16, 2019, 03:45:00 PM
By the proper definition of the word 'lazy' as in physically lacking output, etc., I am not referring to that. But what just happened with this type of worker, is he just became a bit hard-headed, egotistic and in fact, a bit overconfident. Probably not much different than the highest majority of all bac players that have 'been there and done all that', as the saying goes.
That's where maturity and wisdom as alluded to by CT70 can be so important. As a former keen roulette student, I can relate to the above quote and cite roughly 1,000 posts on this forum alone where I talked with a self perceived understanding of how to beat the game of roulette. That false belief is a killer. Ironically, I hardly post on the game of baccarat and prefer to read others instead realizing that there is a bit of truth and common sense in mostly what everyone has to say if you are prepared to look for it. To put it bluntly, we have two ears and only one mouth and I find/found that you don't learn as much and are not as receptive to other ideas if as Alrelax said above that you are a bit egotistical, hard-headed or over-confident. Wise words indeed.
I have just watched about a dozen BTC videos on YouTube, I feel compelled to comment, nice for all of them to have a meet up in Macau, I'll give them that.
I strongly suggest that membership fees are keeping Keith afloat, not his Baccarat prowess. The videos are a utter load of mumbo-jumbo, smoke and mirrors. Shoe trends! If a side is ahead by 3, then bet that side until 3u ahead. Maybe he hasn't seen many shoes start with a streak then chop for 6 hands, then the other side streaks, nothing but fairy tales.
Expectations of 18 singles, 9 doubles, 4 or 5 triples in a shoe, top 3 lines consist of 87% of all hands, all count for NOTHING, other than to make the person making those comments appear smart. Published and discussed at length on GG and other defunct Baccarat forums.
None of this info is of any help at the tables, not in the slightest. I am well aware all of these stats, they mean diddly squat as shoe unfolds, they predict nothing, they do not help other than to look back in amazement at the end of a shoe, Then it is 'couldva, wouldva, shouldav'.
So what the top 3 lines consist of 87% of all hands over time, basically some old fella is trying to appear clever, basic maths 101 stuff. maybe he knows about the bet selection OLD, so what happens when a shoe produces a 4 by 4 streak, or worst, nope that part wasn't addressed.
System 40, 40A, NOR, OTBL, TBL, side count, shoe bias, discussed at length, doesn't help you one bit when the shoe has finished, all taken straight out of Ellis books of fairy tales. It is nothing but mumbo-jumbo that is being promoted. While shoe analysis may help if you have had your behind handed to you on plate, But they offer nothing in term of the next shoe you are playing, It is so easy to play shoes after the event, pure nonsense, aimed at the clueless. One wonders if Keith even plays, there was one instance in a video, he said the Banker goes down to 4, he couldn?t even count properly, as it went down to 3, my Lord.
What is really alarming is one particular YouTube video regarding clumping, Keith doesn't even know what the most significant cards are in a Baccarat shoe. It has been mathematically proven in several places the 4 and 6 are the most significant cards, not that this info will help you in the slightest, so to try and add credence to the spouted nonsense he attempts to introduce BlackJack theories into the game of Baccarat, drear me..
Big cards left, good for the Bank and vice-versa, again, having your head filled with such info will not help while you are at the table. However if you are not aware of this stuff, it makes for a fantastic sales pitch. Let's face it, Baccarat tables the world over are not only occupied by players who have zero methodology, but are also desperate, an endless stream of mugs, willing to fork out anything in the hope they might turn around their predicament. Good grief the YouTube videos must sound like music to their ears. The YouTube comments provide insight to what is the true reality. It is not surprising why one of BTC prominent members is branching out in some vain attempt to entice gullible players to financing Keith?s exploits.
I really do hope that behind closed doors of that forum is more substantial than the reflection of what is portrayed on that channel, otherwise members (a few I am acquainted with) are being taken for a ride.
My impression is that BTC is simply rehashing is what was discussed to death on GamblersGlen circa 2005, they are promoting myths for a fee. Unfortunately the GG site has a virus, if your Anti-virus is robust, you can ignore the warning and scan your PC afterwards, or even better if you run a virtual VMware machine, you can read and digest it all for free, saving yourself the $99 entry fee..
If you are a newbie to gambling forums, then this is heaven, people will believe what they want to believe, what they NEED to believe, promising so much, delivering so little, like a well oiled machine, snake oil that it. Information that you may have never heard before, you're going to be rich, become a ProPlayer, sorry to burst your bubble, it is far from the truth, rather just a bunch of players paying for the privilege to discuss the same load of nonsense ECD was renowned for. Same song different organ grinder, a superior salesperson who learnt the ropes from one of the biggest deluded system seller crooks Ellis Clifton Davies.
Excuse the rant, but the YouTube channel is a load of waffle, the seminars are a load of waffle, aimed at those whom know no better, of which there are many. Win, win situation, unfortunately and SAD.
Go and check out their YT channel, then ask yourself, how gullible am I.
I appreciate wholeheartedly the time you took to type and post that Lugi.
I normally do not hold grudges. I have owned businesses from NYC brothels, to massages parlors, two Midtown Manhattan restaurants, to heavy wrecker service with name branded gas stations on the interstate highway ramps with tractor trailer garages and hazardous materials spill clean up business. I butted heads with a lot tougher and a lot meaner with expensive outcomes, LOL. I am on to my most favorite business, a restaurant and bar with a state gaming license in fact. I have had my share of ups and downs and clowns, should I say--in business. I have gambled in high limit rooms, every single one in Atlantic City, Connecticut, Florida and lots of the Midwest, and at least a solid 70% in Vegas and Southern California, over the many years I have played.
Although I have squared off and had my share of pissing matches, I never would have started this thread or brought it up if Keith did not attempt to have me criminally charged and arrested for threatening him, when all I did in reality was text him 3 or 4 times on his published cell phone number, in the attempt to remove 5 copy and pasted posts I put on his public forum at the invite of one of his members.
Anyway, I detest the man for his falseness, his outright egotistic personality and his outright lies and deceit. He preaches what he stands for and a man will always act and sell himself for what he stands for, period.
Thanks again for the time you took to write what you think.
Quote from: Lugi on April 16, 2019, 07:01:17 PM
That is utter codswallop, it's like a sales pitch. Is Keith in need of more BR, one wonders.
I average approx 100 shoes per week. I know darn well statistics count for nothing as a shoe unfolds. So please bear me the BS.
Yet you contradict yourself in the next paragraph. Baccarat is all about statistics, for any given session it is not. I've also studied this game for well over a decade and then some. Negative progressions do not need to be outrageous, I use them all the time and rarely bet more than 10 units. You are talking to somebody who has done it, 34 consecutive winning sessions, turning $1k into over $40k.
I'm well acquainted with the 87%, something that was done to death on GG over a decade ago, age has nothing to do with the ability to study game.
I did construct a response having watched over a Doz of BTC youtube videos in the last 24 hours, which I did not post, but shall edit accordingly and post shortly.
Lugi, I don't know why you are ranting to me about BTC. You're barking up the wrong tree. I pretty much agree with everything you said about Keith and his forum. For the last 2 years though, there were a group of successful players including myself, teaching a lot of great things to baccarat enthusiasts. Unfortunately, Keith himself couldn't learn what we were teaching so he chose to take another route with his forum. He took the high negative progressions route, where he advocates starting with 1000 unit bank rolls, to win only ONE unit. That's when all the successful players walked away, since we frown on high negative progressions.
I don't need to validate what I say to you, but as a courtesy and just so you know, I will. I don't use or endorse any of the systems you mentioned, 40, 40A, NOR, OTBL, TBL and 87%
I have my own way of playing. However, with your response to my post(s), it's evident that you don't believe a word I say or are even interested. In that respect, you are just like Keith, because he couldn't do what we do, therefore he thought it was impossible. Moreover, you are like 99% of the players I meet in the casino, in that have been playing 10s of years, you know it all and that there's is nothing that you could possibly learn from anyone else.
After 30 years of owning a forum, Keith is still playing $5 units. That being said, if you were the successful player that you say you are you would be playing full time, and would not be content with 5K a week over a hundred shoes. I did the math, you make $50 a shoe.
You don't need to respond to this or any of my future posts. My posts are for everyone else who enjoys the experience I have to offer.
Thanks Alex, wasn't sure what kind of reception it would get.
Their YouTube channel tells anybody possessing just a smidgen sense, all they need to know. It is not a case of BTC withholding the pertinent information and saving it for the board, nope, rather what have publicly published is just invented hog-wash, it is irrelevant fairy tales
OTBL? (An Ellis creation) All it wins against is a series of 2's, call it for what it is, "follow repeating two's, because TBL in other words DBL 'Decision Before Last', is taking you to the cleaners. Yet they have the audacity to charge to attend a seminar to be told this stuff. Gone are the days when you could read all this on the web, some good forums have bitten the dust.
It was really laughable watching them dissect shoes, "oh OTBL lost 5 in a row there, but TBL was ok, but lost 3 in a row here, System 40, did this and System 40A / NOR did that, conclusion, nothing, other than placing emphasis on prior hands, when IT DOESN'T EXIST. Seriously, what is the point, the next shoe is going to be completely different and that shoe being discussed you will never play again in your life-time.
Keith the programmer and former protege of Ellis, learnt a lot from one of the biggest internet snake oil salesmen, Clifton Davies 80 years old who tried to re-write BJ basic strategy and tell scholar they were wrong. Scammed hundreds if not thousands of players for many decades. Tells you all you need to know. Keith following in Ellis's footsteps, making a living promoting and inventing mumbo-jumbo about Baccarat.
Quote from: CT70 on April 16, 2019, 09:28:43 PM
Lugi, I don't know why you are ranting to me about BTC. You're barking up the wrong tree. I pretty much agree with everything you said about Keith and his forum. For the last 2 years though, there were a group of successful players including myself, teaching a lot of great things to baccarat enthusiasts. Unfortunately, Keith himself couldn't learn what we were teaching so he chose to take another route with his forum. He took the high negative progressions route, where he advocates starting with 1000 unit bank rolls, to win only ONE unit. That's when all the successful players walked away, since we frown on high negative progressions.
I don't need to validate what I say to you, but as a courtesy and just so you know, I will. I don't use or endorse any of the systems you mentioned, 40, 40A, NOR, OTBL, TBL and 87%
I have my own way of playing. However, with your response to my post(s), it's evident that you don't believe a word I say or are even interested. In that respect, you are just like Keith, because he couldn't do what we do, therefore he thought it was impossible. Moreover, you are like 99% of the players I meet in the casino, in that have been playing 10s of years, you know it all and that there's is nothing that you could possibly learn from anyone else.
After 30 years of owning a forum, Keith is still playing $5 units. That being said, if you were the successful player that you say you are you would be playing full time, and would not be content with 5K a week over a hundred shoes. I did the math, you make $50 a shoe.
You don't need to respond to this or any of my future posts. My posts are for everyone else who enjoys the experience I have to offer.
You were defending BTC a few posts back, what is one to presume, I took you for a shill? I watched a YouTube video today and one of your shoes was mentioned, CT70. I have come to the conclusion, Keith of more of the sales guy than a player.
I assure you, I am far from 99% of the players you've shared a table with. Sometimes I don't even make $50 per shoe, but it was good of you to take two separate posts from two separate threads and make assumptions, occasionally it ends negative, I am an extremely cautious player, even with a negative progression.
Glad we agree about those systems you mention, all scams invented by the old bugger. The 87.5% understanding does have value though, depends how you apply that knowledge.
Welcome to the board, trust you won't mind if I comment IF I should happen to disagree with any future posts you decide to make, it is what debate is all about. I'm not knocking you personally, rather the silliness and sham of paying money to chat Baccarat over at BTC.