As title says: topic starters are moderators of their own topics now :nod:
With everyone being a "Topic moderator" taking care of their own started threads, the work of Global Moderators should be easier from now on.
Exactly. Now I can stop distractions from a serious debate started by me.
And see just one post in a section by the moderator, there will be no diff. Hopefully the posts increase!!
Where is the spell checker, a spellchecker makes many good posts, the world speak english more or less, and a lot posts will not be here as they are badly jugded because of "poor" language, we must live whith some problem, use English, even of most can do better with a native, but it is the Babylon split in work
Frankly, I think it's wrong. But if we're going to do it I think the post owner should give fair waring at the start. Who in the hell wants to spend thirty minutes with and well-thought-out point of view and see it trash caned? Not me.
As long as I am moderator and someone asks me to, I will try to dig their deleted post out of the trash and post it to a new thread where it can't be deleted.
This old stuff about, "If you don't agree with me, stay off my thread." is totally against the learning process. How do you learn from a bunch of people who are all in agreement? What if they agreed the world was flat? That man could not fly to parts unknown? That if you die, there's no way I could have your heart tomorrow?
People who disagree--who stir the pot--are the ones who cause someone else to say..."Wait a minute!! He may have a point. If we form iron into this shape, it might well float!!"
Albahala
Your attitude sucks!! If I were a deleter, you'd have darn few posts on this forum. But I believe you should have your say. If you want to be a jerk, have at it. Others may not be so forgiving and you may not be heard of much in the future. And that's the pretty side of the pancake.
Sam
I can see both sides to this argument.
We have had some good contributors down the years like Winkel and Mr Chips who might still be around contributing if some of the 'usual suspects' did not start giving them a bit of grief. Then I also appreciate everyone is entitled to their opinion and disagreeing with someone is not a crime. I think we can all spot when someone is just plain trolling and just out to get a negative reaction.
I like the idea of 'troll free' posts :forbidden:
Yet, at the same time, not discouraging free speech just for the sake of it. There is a fine line I suppose and let's hope it is used wisely.
Quote from: Bally6354 on November 21, 2012, 03:35:42 PM
I like the idea of 'troll free' posts :forbidden:
:nod:
I'm still not done with this.............................
There was a movement to ban Fox News as they told the truth on Obama. Soon, other networks HAD to tell the truth as the people knew the truth and wondered why NBC did not speak of it.
Now, here, some unintelligent can post a totally misleading theory--totally wrong--and the first person who points it out is gone! I agree that just plain stuff has no place on the forum, but dissenting views do.
Flat wanted me to delete a post by Ralph when Ralph spoke the truth. Someone called him a hothead, which he can be. He even alluded to shooting people who disagree with him. Flat did not ask me to delete his own posts!!
I feel if a thread owner wants a post deleted badly enough, he should take it to a mod. If the mod disagrees, it stays. He can shop for another mod. If that mod agrees, it's gone. Now, the mods may have to vote!! Hey, that's democracy at work.
The first swingin' dick who deletes one of my post will incur some wrath--I guarantee you that!
Sam
Should we be having a poll on this?
Of course another option in some cases is to start a thread and then lock it. That leaves whatever pertinent information is in there not to get lost between loads of 'thank you' and 'where are the instructions'. A separate thread could be started for all that. There is nothing worse than reading through a 15 page thread and you still don't understand what's going on.
We must balance "free speech" vs "free trolling".
In my view, there is free speech as long as anyone retains the ability to start their own thread and express his/her opinions freely.
As to the removed posts, I can arrange the forums' recycle bin to show each user his own removed posts, in order to being able to recover and reposting them when considered to exercise his right.
Something I'm certain about is we don't want "free trolling".
Basically my thought is: while you are allowed to say basically anything about a man or his ideas, you aren't allowed to go into his house and invoke he MUST have to retreat to let you in and cope with you and your views in his living room.
He (the owner) should retain the right to keep you away.
Geez, I thanked buffalowizard this morning!! I try to be a polite person. Someone does me a nice, I want to thank them! Frankly, I don't know how to get around that.
The "where are the instructions" are there because of the darn "tweaking" and "morphing" of a system. And every swingin' dick that comes along thinks the can better state the rules than the author!
PEOPLE........we are dealing with people with all their foils and foibles. You ain't gonna edit that out!!
Mean comments and the like should go, but a mod should do it. What he H is a mod for if every swingin' dick on the forum is a mod?
If folks are too lazy to sift through the chaff to get to the wheat, they will be too lazy to work the idea anyway. I spent hours reading through Jl's stuff, with all the negative comments and the rest of it.
Maybe that little discussion I had with Flat should have been deleted. Then only soggett would have understood it. As it is--because of soggett--not Flat, everyone understands it.
Lastly, Flat took the Lord's name in vain---JESUS!------and I don't like that one bit. But I would not delete it. Jesus can handle his own affairs just fine!
Hoooooboy....
I'm a little hot. Might oughta delete this post!!
:no:
TwoCatSam
(with dos perros!)
Quote from: TwoCatSam on November 21, 2012, 03:26:35 PM
Frankly, I think it's wrong. But if we're going to do it I think the post owner should give fair waring at the start. Who in the hell wants to spend thirty minutes with and well-thought-out point of view and see it trash caned? Not me.
As long as I am moderator and someone asks me to, I will try to dig their deleted post out of the trash and post it to a new thread where it can't be deleted.
This old stuff about, "If you don't agree with me, stay off my thread." is totally against the learning process. How do you learn from a bunch of people who are all in agreement? What if they agreed the world was flat? That man could not fly to parts unknown? That if you die, there's no way I could have your heart tomorrow?
People who disagree--who stir the pot--are the ones who cause someone else to say..."Wait a minute!! He may have a point. If we form iron into this shape, it might well float!!"
Albahala
Your attitude sucks!! If I were a deleter, you'd have darn few posts on this forum. But I believe you should have your say. If you want to be a jerk, have at it. Others may not be so forgiving and you may not be heard of much in the future. And that's the pretty side of the pancake.
Sam
Sam,
I am with you on this, I had a debate going on a thread yesterday, it must have been over 12 posts, with his responses, and he has removed all of them before anyone else could see them and comment if they wished to, what ever happened to free speech, so what we have now is the situation if someone dose not like what you post, they will just remove them, oh sorry tidy up the thread!
If I start a thread and people comment on it, I always leave comments on good or bad, positive or negative, I think people should see the whole picture, and not the thread creators edited view!
This is just a form of censorship, only say nice things or I will delete you!
I agree %100 with you Sam this is stuff!
maybe instead of full moderation control give topic starters new option like:
"Mark as Offtopic" or something similar.
Then selected post would be automatically edited to fit into some sort of folding function
like [reveal][/reveal] from rouletteforum[dot]com.
This way topic starters could "CLEAN" their topics while maintaining full transparency off the forum.
Quote from: Ophis on November 21, 2012, 04:32:00 PM
"Mark as Offtopic"
Interesting idea.
Youtube and other sites have this functionality, where they leave it up to the reader to choose whether to see marked posts or not.
Quote from: Ophis on November 21, 2012, 04:32:00 PM
maybe instead of full moderation control give topic starters new option like:
"Mark as Offtopic" or something similar.
Then selected post would be automatically edited to fit into some sort of folding function
like [reveal][/reveal] from rouletteforum[dot]com.
This way topic starters could "CLEAN" their topics while maintaining full transparency off the forum.
That's a good idea if it can be implemented and is then fair to everyone. I would vote for that option.
but YouTube is not a site where people discuss ideas.
Quote from: malcop on November 21, 2012, 04:45:56 PM
but YouTube is not a site where people discuss ideas.
You have a point there :nod:
QuoteAlbahalaYour attitude sucks!! If I were a deleter, you'd have darn few posts on this forum. But I believe you should have your say. If you want to be a jerk, have at it. Others may not be so forgiving and you may not be heard of much in the future. And that's the pretty side of the pancake.Sam
Guys, I suggest we have a time out to chill-out and discuss this later, when we are more calmed and can see things in a clearer light and heart.
We all say and make things that we reconsider later. Let's step a bit to reconsider them first at this time.
Is a difficult issue, free to speak yes! if it is wrong Yes" but all this males, who can not take any critics, and instantly feel offended, is something we here can buy a book about.
We live in a world there some males are frustrated. We live in a word of change. The new order is from east
1. Shangahai 2, Mumbay 3.Goodbye) 4. Bad Guy
At my age I have got the best part (according to my location) than any in history and that's will be valid until I pass off!
I can see the points on both sides, but Sam makes a good case!
I think he's right - trolls should be managed by the moderators, and if the topic starter wants the thread "cleaned up" they can always request it.
The feature seems to have been rarely used on the other forum, not sure whether that's because members aren't aware they have the power or that they choose not to use it.
Freedom of speech should not be abused.
Unfortunately there is a global trend for freedom of expression to be constantly abused. I recommend caution.
Forums where they allow everything that can be written all quickly degenerate. Insults are not to be protected by freedom. It is my humble opinion.
Quote from: VLS on November 21, 2012, 03:51:18 PM
Should we be having a poll on this?
Absolutely. Self moderated threads never work. I would
never want to tell someone I don't like what they said
and delete it. Completely kills the point of discussion.
Quote from: Bayes on November 21, 2012, 05:30:41 PM
I can see the points on both sides, but Sam makes a good case!
I think he's right - trolls should be managed by the moderators, and if the topic starter wants the thread "cleaned up" they can always request it.
The feature seems to have been rarely used on the other forum, not sure whether that's because members aren't aware they have the power or that they choose not to use it.
That's prettuy much my thinking on the subject :)
Let moderators do what mods have done on forums for the last 20 years....moderate and clean up and help along :)
QuoteI would like to at least have my ideas back as i can never put it twice the same way.
This can be arranged. The forum has a recycle bin for deleted posts.
I'll flex my admin muscle to work and set it up so members can see their own removed posts.
When? "In a few days". I'm afraid I can't put an exact date, but rest assured your topics are there.
This was posted at the moderator's lounge when talking this over.
In short: the benefits of keeping the feature outweigh the bad aspects. By far.
I talk from past experiences: how frustrating it is for a member to see his thread gone to sh1tters (as per whatever standard he might consider it) and NOT BEING ABLE TO DO ANYTHING.
The only stand against a bad post on the regular forums is to make ANOTHER post and things can and regularly go "doo doo" well into mudslinging before any action is taken. Original poster can get a warning by firing back, so basically what is expected from him is to keep quiet, take the beating and patiently wait.
THIS DRIVES QUALITY POSTERS AWAY.
Regarding freedom of speech, there is nothing taking away the ability to post anyone's point of view in the forum, it is only about the "WHERE" a member can post it. Each member has his own space under this model, each member can care for his/her own space.
In real life, IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME. You are free to speak your mind. But you aren't free to go a museum or a certain property that isn't your own and start preaching your views on the megaphone. We seem to be doing good this way.
Of course the guy with the megaphone is going to argue about it, but it is overall better for society if we don't let others do as they wish where they please. Megaphone guy's ability to tell anything he wants isn't being taken away: he retains full free speech rights, he can do so outside the museum if he wishes, but the line is drawn on exercising free speech where it interferes with other members of the community.
In real life, we don't see anybody lobbying for the ability to enter someone's home by force and preach on his living room... food for thought.
..."Interfering" being an entirely subjective concept. An inventor would like as much interference as possible while he's working because he derives new ideas from interruptions of people suggesting him how to do things. An artist might not like any kind of interference since he's inspired and doesn't want to attend someone selling "his way" of painting to him while he's capturing his expression on the canvas.
Both should be able to draw their own line. This model allows each type of poster to do so.
I'm going to put the coding hat on in order to make the recycle bin modification. We can make this "middle point" work :nod: