RoulettKEY -" Ignatus...why do you not ever listen to people who have far more experience in testing, study and play than you?
No one here is trying to beat you down...we offer constructive advice and then you get offended and it spirals a little outta control sometimes.
I can recall on another board being scolded by you for "complaining too much" when I tried to offer a voice of reason because you had invented the grail which I knew did not work...(this is just a month ago)...you would not listen to reason. Your minions had run thousands and thousands of spins with defective math and were ready to own the casinos. You continued to deride me and within 12 hours of the holy grails discovery it was fully tested, annoited, and anyone with a voice of reason shouted down...oh yeah..and then it was removed because of faulty math, faulty logic and it crashed and burned... And...it did so in such a dramatic way that you removed the entire thread as if it had never happened.
Do you get your kicks by starting these kind of threads and then just try to keep punking people?
Just askin'. Real players try to help you and everytime we all come away with the same feeling...every single friggin time. I am sure I am not speaking solely for myself. I do not know Gizmo or Ophis...have never talked to either. But I've read their posts, and I've read yours. You may not agree but you should take counsel and respond with a little dignity. Take it for what it's worth.
Now just a tidbit on your 123-Move. It's a 12 or 13 number bet with basically 3 sets of 3 fixed wheel sectors. You just linked wheel sectors 1,2 and 3 together and called it dozen 1...wheel sectors 4,5 and 6 together...dozen 2. Wheel sectors 7,8 and 9 together...dozen three. It's not revolutionary. You are talking to people like they have never bet wheel sectors before. We have...we do.
Some sector methods play the center sector and the two neighbors, sometimes people take the last number hit and it's direct 6 neighbors on either side (keeping with your dozens theme). Some are looking for hot numbers and other sleepers, others are looking for patterns such as your 1.2.3 or 3.2.1. People are speaking from experience that you are not giving them credit for because anybody that has been on the forums or around the wheels for any length of time have seen it, done it and know what the upside and downside of these methods are. We are trying to tell you.
Many methods can be great if they are just 10% new. Just a little different slant at the way you look at something. Change the trigger, change a progression, implement mid-stream stop-losses...the list goes on and on so far as the tweaks that make a decent method an exceptional method. The problem is many of the best tweaks make the methods difficult to track and play in live wheel sessions and that has to be taken into consideration as well. There are many players on these forums that can be a great asset to you...don't keep driving everyone away and wondering aloud why no one will help you test today's great idea."
Just thought I would save this before it was cowardly removed.
Just for the record, there has never been a trigger based system that ever proved to be economically viable in the past 200 years of attempting to find one. All rule based systems encounter more sequences that kill them off than can be avoided by any known creative discovery. We have not seen one yet either. I will remove every JL post from this thread. He has not proven anything. So he will be politely removed from posting in this thread. If you want to read his drivel then seek it elsewhere.
This thread is to discuss the true failings of system players, in front of their faces, but behind their backs. So kindly don't bother to defend system play in this thread. Otherwise your rantings will be removed.
When it comes to table layout groupings compared to wheel sector groupings there is no beneficial difference. The characteristics of randomness are the same. To believe there is, leaves the uninformed gambler with the consequences of suffering from magical thinking. Magical thinking leads to loss of bankroll. Telling other people that magical things makes for success leads to eventual embarrassment. There should be a price for leading others to financial doom. This thread is for that doom.
I think this will turn out to be a a great thread!
BTW, "Fortune favors the prepared mind" - a nice byline :)
I do so agree with Gizmotron here... Magic, voodoo, superstition - surely we cannot hope to beat the roulette with these.... If we persist with stars in our eyes and our heads in the clouds and attack without due care or rationale then eventually we must endure and suffer the consequences of our oversights and failings as certain as the night follows the day.
Instead, for our own benefit and to experience success in this endeavour, we must attack with out feet firmly planted on the ground armed with the bows and arrows of knowledge, information, technique, logic, reason and certainties. Accepting the truth and with no illusory expectation we must venture on guardedly with a purposeful plan that is not beset with much weakness in order that that overall we can attain to regular and highly prized systematic victories. With that we are strong and successful.
But then that is a very tall order and indeed no small accomplishment. We can but seek and try our best - individually and as a group - such is the purpose of this meeting place.... Who knows what may transpire with the light of intelligent minds all focussing intently upon discovering a reasonable and workable solution to this age-old problem of roulette? If so, and with this powerful impetus and group resolve, could in fact a method be found and forged that might surpass all previous attempts? I wonder?... Or are we doomed to forever go round and round in circles, trying this way and that way again and again and unwittingly not realising that all these paths have been trodden before and that they just simply are a waste of time and will inevitably lead to frustration, despair, sadness and sorrow?
Of course we can expect new attempts and ideas to come upon the scene. These will also surely follow inevitably as well - but always remember the saying that "there is nothing new under the Sun".
Despite all - perhaps still there is within the bounds of credibility that by conceivably combining and unifying the old ideas and facts with the light of new reason and new approaches something could emerge that could form the basis of a stronger weapon to use in the war against roulette.
A.
Nice addition to this thread.
I've focused on the double dozens/columns/wheelDozens for decades. I've also spent a few years exclusively on even chances only. I've tried flat betting and two level betting.
In all that there is, there is one tactic that must be dealt with. There must be a constant vigilance with regards to what is currently happening. Wishful thinking leads to disaster.
The secret to beating this is in being aware of the current states. You must know what characteristics of randomness are working. That can be discussed for any betting group. So if it where me, that is where discussion might be the greatest value .
Beating roulette lies in testing and practice. You have
to practice like a scientist approaches testing. He has
strict rules he follows so his own personal biases and
misinformation don't pollute the testing outcomes. He's
not looking to prove anything, he's looking for real unbiased
results. Anything else is useless. Does what you do win,
or doesn't it. If it doesn't, don't keep curve fitting the results
until you've deluded yourself into thinking it's a winner.
No real scientist would do this. You're only interested in the
truth, is it a winner or not. But who works this way. Not
many.
It's not enough to see patterns and trends as triggers. They don't always work. They can be detected as working though. You have to be smarter than the chips.
Quote from: Gizmotron on January 31, 2013, 10:40:21 PM
In all that there is, there is one tactic that must be dealt with. There must be a constant vigilance with regards to what is currently happening. Wishful thinking leads to disaster.
The secret to beating this is in being aware of the current states. You must know what characteristics of randomness are working. That can be discussed for any betting group. So if it where me, that is where discussion might be the greatest value .
I fully agree with this
mechanical systems will fail
you can't have a system like if number 1 hits play this, if 2 hits play that (just a simple example)
you have to change with every spin - because every spin is independant
my english is not good as your is guys so I can't and don't know how to have a smart conversation with fancy words, I keep it simple
If every spin is random then there is no way of knowing what will come next, it's random
anything can and wil happen
thinking that anything can give you an edge over that is no good
yes, you can argue about VB but then the wheel is not random is it? (dealer signature and all)
wha I am trying to say is I agree with Gizmo - a way of play shoud change with the spins and bet different every time ( ie today after number 1 you bet this, later after number 1 you bet that)
hope you understand what I am trying to say
Here's the really big deal. It doesn't matter if what I say is right. People are getting it. I have already opened a Pandora's box. Randomness studies leads to solutions that offer successes.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 01, 2013, 06:42:09 AM
Here's the really big deal. It doesn't matter if what I say is right. People are getting it. I have already opened a Pandores box. Randomness studies leads to solutions that offer successes.
well you sure have me starting to think that is the right path ;)
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 01, 2013, 06:42:09 AM
I have already opened a Pandora's box.
What day was that, I missed it. Could you open it again
and let us know the exact time so we'll know what the
heck you're talking about most of the time?
Quote from: spike on February 01, 2013, 08:55:57 AM
What day was that, I missed it. Could you open it again
and let us know the exact time so we'll know what the
heck you're talking about most of the time?
Could write some similar! :))
Quote from: soggett on February 01, 2013, 06:29:27 AM
a way of play shoud change with the spins and bet different every time ( ie today after number 1 you bet this, later after number 1 you bet that)
You are right soggett and that's why trying to explain things can get complicated because there are a lot of different variables when you are dealing with random.
Experience also counts for a lot.
Quote from: spike on February 01, 2013, 08:55:57 AM
What day was that, I missed it. Could you open it again
and let us know the exact time so we'll know what the
heck you're talking about most of the time?
Like they say in show business. Keep them wanting more.
" Randomness studies leads to solutions that offer successes." And that will eventually lead to enough people using it that will then close down most, if not all, table games in casinos.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 01, 2013, 04:11:48 PM
Like they say in show business. Keep them wanting more.
Or a JL statement!
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 01, 2013, 04:11:48 PM
" Randomness studies leads to solutions that offer successes." And that will eventually lead to enough people using it that will then close down most, if not all, table games in casinos.
Geez. Here we go again. Gizmo, even YOU can't win on
a regular basis, you've proved it again and again. What
makes you think anybody else will? Better open Pandora's
box and climb in there with her..
I'm not the one that won't explain my methods. If there were a fast way to run 30 to 40 spins at a time then I would challenge you to a contest. Now that it's well known that you sit out spins there's almost nothing for you to hide. Try not to chicken out.
Gizmo,
Since you mention show biz in you post # 13 , Gambling is also a segment of the entertainment industry and both are promising us illusions but not solutions.
Nathan Detroit
Well known that I don't bet every spin? Who
does. Only people who are clueless. Get in,
get it done, get out. that's what the old timers
say. Gambling is for tourists.
Quote from: spike on February 02, 2013, 02:12:16 PM
Well known that I don't bet every spin? Who
does. Only people who are clueless. Get in,
get it done, get out. that's what the old timers
say. Gambling is for tourists.
Due to the censorship on the proper use of an adequate comment, you will have to fill in the banks for yourself. For the past 40 years the casinos I play in require you to place a minimum bet for every spin. Reno, Tahoe, Laughlin, Vegas, and the Indian casinos near me all have this rule. If you hold a seat at the table you must place at least a minimum bet.
So Spike, please explain your unqualified remarks?
QUOTE by Gizmo:
"Due to the censorship on the proper use of an adequate comment, you will have to fill in the banks for yourself".
My ears are tuned to the guarantors who have given us freedom of expression. Why not post at the old GG where FREEDOM RINGS.
Nathan Detroit
Freedom of Speech Supporter
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 02, 2013, 08:13:05 PM
If you hold a seat at the table you must place at least a minimum bet.
Yup. What rule says you have to sit? Especially when
playing the EC's. You can be anywhere as long as you can
see the marquee. I've never sat at a table and played,
that to is for tourists.
Quote from: spike on February 02, 2013, 10:39:44 PM
Yup. What rule says you have to sit? Especially when
playing the EC's. You can be anywhere as long as you can
see the marquee. I've never sat at a table and played,
that to is for tourists.
Same here and in many places in Europe. There are a few seats and more players, we leave the seats for the ladies. Some walk between tables and bet on more than one, or check which table suits theire way of playing. Some tables people sit as very few play them as it can be 50 Euro min.
Quote by Spike " that to is for tourists" .
Do I love that designation. Covers a lot of the usual suspects without insulting them ROFLMAO.
Nathan Detroit
My local casino has 8 roulette tables and there is a Hungarian guy that turns up every weekend and all he does is wander between the tables all night looking for his triggers. He only plays 2 dozens. Win or lose and he is off to another table.
Quote from: Bally6354 on February 02, 2013, 11:10:50 PM
My local casino has 8 roulette tables and there is a Hungarian guy that turns up every weekend and all he does is wander between the tables all night looking for his triggers. He only plays 2 dozens. Win or lose and he is off to another table.
Done that. You can get in serious trouble very fast
playing 2 dozens. A bad bet and two zeros back
to back can put you in a bind very quickly.
Quote from: spike on February 02, 2013, 11:32:42 PM
Done that. You can get in serious trouble very fast
playing 2 dozens. A bad bet and two zeros back
to back can put you in a bind very quickly.
A person that can't play the wild swings of randomness with double dozen bets has no background in giving advice regarding the risk and reward concerning them. You have already gone on the record concerning them and balances. You are clueless and can't explain it. I'm glad you limit yourself to HAR-EC class only.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 03, 2013, 12:40:31 AM
A person that can't play the wild swings of randomness
Can, don't want to. Or need to. That kind of fun is for, well,
you know. The tourists..
Quote from: spike on February 03, 2013, 02:39:27 AM
Can, don't want to. Or need to. That kind of fun is for, well,
you know. The tourists..
Just like I thought. You don't know.
Oh Gizmo, ever since you opened Pandora's box
the forest has disappeared and all you see is tree's.
Better close the box and get back on the path.
Spike, you only have your name calling. You have your little EC bet and your blowhard attitude. And your biggest thrill of them all. You are a self appointed savior. And you are stuck on me. Now how intelligent is that.
It's time for you to contribute. It's time to prove your more than an internets stalker. It's either that or I'll post in threads where everything you say will be removed.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 03, 2013, 06:16:35 AM
It's time for you to contribute.
Exposing you is my contribution. Small as it is..
Quote from: spike on February 03, 2013, 02:29:31 PM
Exposing you is my contribution. Small as it is..
You have only exposed yourself. That was my goal. I got you to admit to your agenda. How do you like being manipulated?
Nobody that has considered using my list of characteristics of randomness, my charting system as a concept or guide to any tracked groupings, or my revolutionary idea of playing against the effectiveness track has expressed a sense of danger or warning regarding me sharing it.
If I have done a poor job of communicating my methods then I'm sure it's because I didn't listen much in school. Still, it seems that most people have either forgiven or ignored that process. It seems that you Spike are all alone in your quest to rid the world of your demon. I've shared what I call reading randomness. You shared flat betting, HAR, and making an educated guess where you play to win $100 and then leave. Your vast contribution in the past six years has been, to say the most, underwhelming.
Consider yourself as ignore status.
Spike just had a comment. He said that 90% can't understand my concepts and methods. If that's true then ask questions. Unlike Spike, I'll try to answer them.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 03, 2013, 09:00:24 PM
Spike just had a comment. He said that 90% can't understand my concepts and methods. If that's true then ask questions. Unlike Spike, I'll try to answer them.
well, i have a question for both of you
why don't you get alone? you are very smart, surely you can invent many very good systems together so why not work together?
also how do you both play roulette? what systems do you use or what kind of aproach?
gizmo you use random, patterns and trends if I am right?
what about you spike?
well, you said to ask so... :D
The only system that I have is to look at what the last spin results were. They confirm the continuation of the trend or pattern. They confirm the possible end to a trend or pattern. From that single bit of information what to do next is configured. I've explained that extensively.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 03, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
The only system that I have is to look at what the last spin results were. They confirm the continuation of the trend or pattern. They confirm the possible end to a trend or pattern. From that single bit of information what to do next is configured. I've explained that extensively.
yes, I know Gizmo, but ie I can't find anything from spike
I don't know if he plays the same as you but I really think you two should team up
even if you don't agree on certain things you can make that a good thing
Quote from: soggett on February 04, 2013, 08:43:10 AM
yes, I know Gizmo, but ie I can't find anything from spike
I don't know if he plays the same as you but I really think you two should team up
even if you don't agree on certain things you can make that a good thing
I don't need to carry him. He rides the casino bus & plays for $100 a visit. He's is clueless when it comes to taking advantage of spectacular opportunities. He says he doesn't need to. But it's clear to me that it's mostly ignorance on his part. He can learn from the real expert on randomness any time he wants to. But he enjoys surrounding himself with the masses of uninformed gamblers. As long as he can fool them he gets his jolly's off. Just listen to why he is here. I angered him for sharing what I have. He became very bitter on the very day that I started sharing. All he is is a very angry boy. That is the simple truth here. He can join up with the has been marvels of the scrap heep. He's nothing but an internet troll.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 04, 2013, 02:38:31 PM
He's is clueless when it comes to taking advantage of spectacular opportunities.
What do those look like, exactly, I've never
seen one. All betting opportunities have
exactly the same chance of being right. Odd
that you think differently about that, what
with being a roulette expert and all. Maybe
you can enlighten us as to what bet in roulette
has a better chance of winning. You usually
hear this kind of thing from a newbie..
I'll bet there are people here that know what I mean by spectacular opportunities. I would really like to know if people really don't know what to do with a sleeping dozen that sleeps for thirty spins in a row. How about a sequence of singles in the dozens that lasts more than 20 spins in a row? Do people here ignore 20 reds in a row? Perhaps Spike is correct here. Maybe very few here play the very best opportunities. Maybe they are as clueless as Spike. Let's see about that.
Quote from: spike on February 04, 2013, 02:54:04 PM
What do those look like, exactly, I've never
seen one. All betting opportunities have
exactly the same chance of being right. Odd
that you think differently about that, what
with being a roulette expert and all. Maybe
you can enlighten us as to what bet in roulette
has a better chance of winning. You usually
hear this kind of thing from a newbie..
Since I usually play a few repeating numbers I think my opportunity on a dozen sleeping for 30 spins or for 20 reds in a row is...get the hell outta the casino...because I likely just made a ton of money.
On the off chance that it was 20 reds in a row AND a dozen sleeping for 30 in a row at the same time...well then I stick around...because I then own some stock in that casino. :nod: :applause: Hey where's the little smiley guy rolling around on the ground laughing his &ss off?
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 04, 2013, 03:15:16 PM
I'll bet there are people here that know what I mean by spectacular opportunities. I would really like to know if people really don't know what to do with a sleeping dozen that sleeps for thirty spins in a row. How about a sequence of singles in the dozens that lasts more than 20 spins in a row? Do people here ignore 20 reds in a row? Perhaps Spike is correct here. Maybe very few here play the very best opportunities. Maybe they are as clueless as Spike. Let's see about that.
I don't care if you delete this Giz, this is the first time I've got what you are going on about regarding spectacular opportunities. And of course you oil up the machine and get ready to take full advantage of these gems.
And Spike is clueless if he thinks 5 reds in a row offers an equal opportunity to 20 reds in a row. THE LONGER THE WAIT, THE SOONER THE CHANGE.
So at least we get a solid insight into what you are thinking Giz. Unlike Spike.
THE LONGER THE WAIT, THE SOONER THE CHANGE.
Jl
The above is an undeniable truth. Question is, when will the change come? Ah, if we only knew.
By the way, who wants to wait around for 20 reds in a row? I'm 66.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on February 04, 2013, 06:03:00 PM
THE LONGER THE WAIT, THE SOONER THE CHANGE.
Jl
The above is an undeniable truth. Question is, when will the change come? Ah, if we only knew.
By the way, who wants to wait around for 20 reds in a row? I'm 66.
Sam
that's the problem Sam lol! Yeah I think its just an opportunist bet. You have several possibilities. But that's what I basically do. Find something as rare as 20 reds. But more playable.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 04, 2013, 03:15:16 PM
with a sleeping dozen that sleeps for thirty spins in a row.
Gamblers Fallacy sequences? You mean you think after
a bunch of events in a row, you are willing to bet your
whole BR on the next spin?
Of course you won't, because of GF. What you mean is,
the end of the sequence is near. DUH! But you can't
know exactly when it will end, nobody can. Like I said,
newbie stuff..
I expect to have an exceptional opportunity at least once in every five to ten sessions. I expect to have at least three great opportunities in every 150 spin session. I see good opportunities at least six to ten times per session. I see strong downturns, that I deliberately avoid, at least three to six times during a 150 spin session. In all that there are micro ups & downs to navigate. If you look for enough opportunities, based on many characteristics to watch for, then you don't have to wait forever, as several of you suggest. Here is a big clue. All huge opportunities start out as micro opportunities. If you can't play the micro bets then you will never get the huge wins from the best thing there is. All I'm hearing are excuses for passing on this. Perhaps spike is correct after all.
Quote from: spike on February 04, 2013, 08:08:33 PM
Gamblers Fallacy sequences? You mean you think after
a bunch of events in a row, you are willing to bet your
whole BR on the next spin?
Of course you won't, because of GF. What you mean is,
the end of the sequence is near. DUH! But you can't
know exactly when it will end, nobody can. Like I said,
newbie stuff..
You don't need to. You know its highly likely to show in the next 10 spins. How many times have you seen a dozen sleep for 40 plus spins? I can tell you its not going to happen. there's more chance of you actually showing us a working method than that. Random has virtual limits.
Now you know...
Quote from: spike on February 04, 2013, 08:08:33 PM
Gamblers Fallacy sequences? You mean you think after
a bunch of events in a row, you are willing to bet your
whole BR on the next spin?
That was an imbacilic remark. Are you deliberately playing unintelligent? Why would someone pass up 30 sleeping dozens only to just begin betting it will continue. The opportunity has passed. You've got to be kidding. WHY ARE YOU HERE?
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 04, 2013, 08:22:26 PM
Why would someone pass up 30 sleeping dozens
So what's so special about them, then. When will the
sequence end, exactly. You don't know and have
no way of knowing. So you bet accordingly, just like
with any other sequence. Streaks make me yawn,
they're so over rated..
Quote from: spike on February 04, 2013, 08:41:14 PM
So what's so special about them, then. When will the
sequence end, exactly. You don't know and have
no way of knowing. So you bet accordingly, just like
with any other sequence. Streaks make me yawn,
they're so over rated..
If it is not clear to everyone here how Spike appears to be clueless then I don't know what else to say. He clearly treats everyone here as if they were stupid. He just keeps asking these same stupid questions. There is no way to get along with him.
I guess I need to write a thread for the fantastic opportunities and exactly how to attack the casino when these opportunities rise up.
"I guess I need to write a thread for the fantastic opportunities and exactly how to attack the casino when these opportunities rise up."
- Now that is a very good idea and looking forward to what you have to comprehensively list!
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 04, 2013, 09:10:54 PM
I guess I need to write a thread for the fantastic opportunities and exactly how to attack the casino when these opportunities rise up.
Would you? Frankly, though, I don't have time to
sit around the casino waiting for 30 in a row of
something. I'm usually gone in 15 spins or less,
that's all I need. Waiting for those wascally streaks
is for you guys with a lot of time on your hands.
Get in, get it done, get out. Not sit around all
day, wait wait wait, track track track, make
a couple bets that probably lose, and leave..
Life is too short.
Settle down, JL. Life is too short!! ;)
If you let adverse comments get to you you'll end up stepping over the line. You came close...
Let it be water off a duck's back.
Quote from: esoito on February 04, 2013, 10:46:25 PM
Settle down, JL. Life is too short!! ;)
If you let adverse comments get to you you'll end up stepping over the line. You came close...
Let it be water off a duck's back.
True Esoito, I will take it off. Although do you not think there should be a rule about people talking about what they do all the time. Without actually showing it to the forum?
Quote from: JohnLegend on February 04, 2013, 10:48:57 PM
True Esoito, I will take it off. Although do you not think there should be a rule about people talking about what they do all the time. Without actually showing it to the forum?
Personally, if somebody talks about what they do all the time without explaining or demonstrating it then I simply ignore their claims -- especially where money is involved.
I would expect common sense to prevail and guide others in a similar way.
It all boils down to
provable substantiation of claims, proper documentation and auditing by an independent third party.
I can't ever see that happening on a gambling forum!!
But where I live, the finance industry, for example, is VERY closely regulated and heaven any company that makes false claims without providing proper proof.
A very active statutory watchdog jumps onto them and they end up in court PDQ!!!
A shame the gambling industry isn't as assiduously regulated.
I've provided my tracking software. It's a duplicate verson of the index cards that I use while playing in a B&M casino. You can't understand my methods without using this charting system.
I've published a list of the characteristics that I look for while playing. They are here somewhere at this website. They all have their moments of extreme opportunity. You need to know and understand this list in order to understand my methods.
There is no point in attempting to talk with people that refuse to do prerequisite work. I'll know if you don't understand things and why. Spike has already demonstrated what happens with your head up your ...
I just flushed Spike. He's trying to harp about me not posting something. AT THIS POINT Spike IS NOTHING BUT A TROLL.
Let's see if we can make progress right here first. I will assume that most of you know how to recognize a sleeping dozen. Let's say that you have seen five spins where dozen 1 has not hit. I seldom attack with a big bet if the session has proven difficult. I never attack if the global effect is a pattern of short sized sleeping dozens. That would mean that there have been many 4, 5, 6, & 7 sized sleeping dozens or columns recently. The over all trend suggests that for a while a long sleeper is over dominated by lots of shorter trends. You can't know when to go after a possible long streak. But if the current over all trends are continuing to serve up a lot of short ones then why buck the trend?
I only use house's money to strike at a possible opportunity. If you bet the maximum at my casino then that's $500 per bet. You stand to lose $1,000 on the first bet and $500 on the second try. Once you have $1,000 of the house's money, you can risk it without leaving a loser. What is common is that you get 16 sleepers in a row when a good opportunity comes up. IF you strike at spin 5 of this sequence, and it holds to spin 16 then you win $4,500 after spin 17 of the streak loses. If you quit at spin 14 then you have $5,000. But then you can't win that monster 30 sleepers in a row. That can be more than $10,000 if it just happens to happen.
How many get the most important point in this?
QuoteHow many get the most important point in this?
Gizmo,
Can you spell it out for us dumbos? :)
I get the whole trend thing, and it's true that every big opportunity starts as a micro opportunity, but the problem is, why should the amount you lose while jumping on all all the micro opportunities be less than what you win when finally the big opportunity comes along? In other words, each false start eats into your bankroll, so you might be down 20 units before the winning run arrives. When it does arrive, will it be long enough to pay off your debts and make a profit? not in my experience trying this approach. But maybe I'm doing something wrong.
Quote from: Bayes on February 05, 2013, 07:11:37 AM
Gizmo,
Can you spell it out for us dumbos? :)
I get the whole trend thing, and it's true that every big opportunity starts as a micro opportunity, but the problem is, why should the amount you lose while jumping on all all the micro opportunities be less than what you win when finally the big opportunity comes along? In other words, each false start eats into your bankroll, so you might be down 20 units before the winning run arrives. When it does arrive, will it be long enough to pay off your debts and make a profit? not in my experience trying this approach. But maybe I'm doing something wrong.
It makes the day, but all other "minor" losses before will often eat it. If you are lucky to be able to go to the table limit, and not lose before, you may have got a proper win, the chance that happen is small, but we can all be lucky. It has happen to me,it is rare cases. Positive is not worse than negative, the last gives win, small a lot of times, before it can all go, the first eats slowly your money, but can give a big win. Somehow can a positive progression experience feel better, the smaller losses can be replaced over time week by week, the big loss feels something harder, a (large) bankroll in one or a few spins. Both ways can win or lose, in the longer run the loss is very likely.
Bayes & Ralph, I've tried to suggest that this is much easier the simpler it gets. The simple rule is this. You can't attack with big bets unless you already have that money to attack with. I have that money before I sit down. My entire strategy is to gain that position while at least staying even. I take the top bets knowing that it might fail. If it does I make smaller moves to get back to that positive position where I can attack. It's always a war to gain position. If I have some disastrous session I will have never allowed myself to lose past more than one attacking loss. I fight to get back position that matters. I hope you guys can see the difference between trying to get lucky and making your own luck. Wishful thinking is for suckers.
It is really easier to talk than do! Some talk some do!
Quote from: Ralph on February 05, 2013, 09:08:04 AM
It is really easier to talk than do! Some talk some do!
Well if you don't mind me saying, but you are the one talking about not being able to use trends. I don't see where that is my problem.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 05, 2013, 09:13:43 AM
Well if you don't mind me saying, but you are the one talking about not being able to use trends. I don't see where that is my problem.
You may not see it. The game is a game of chance, denying the part of luck in success is GF, you do not need a brain to win, you have better use of luck. Trends is a creation of the mind not the wheel, and it is hard to make anyone understand that. It is in fact one of the properties of addiction to think anything else. You can use any but the worse methods and win. If it is a skill game, everbody will win after buying or finding the knowledge, and that is not the case.
Well one thing is easy to see. You are a waste of my time. I mean I'm incapable of teaching my methods. Spike would say there nothing to teach. He's right. He wants to expose me. He's the one with the most pathetic playing method. He's a recreation gambler with his pissant hit and get out, Barney Fife and his bullet, ride the tour bus, eat the buffet, talk like an expert, ride a white horse, lone ranger mylarky spoof - dog poop, tranvestite, lying dirt bag. You can have him.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 05, 2013, 10:28:58 AM
I mean I'm incapable of teaching my methods. Spike would say there nothing to teach. He's right.
Giz,
Since when have you been incapable of teaching your methods? what do you mean by that? didn't you teach some people on the VLS forum a couple of years ago - and charged them for it?
Bayes, I consider you one of a very few on this website that are smart. But I realized that in just one example of attempting to teach that it is impossible to teach wisdom. I can talk until I'm blue in the face, but I don't seem to get across describing the process for limiting damage. I hinted at it for many years. I told everyone years ago to "test as you go." Back then I was cryptic about it. It means to test the waters as you go. If you understood this you would know that I would never stick around and allow myself to get 20 units down, as you suggest. I would like you to consider methods for mitigating damage. I know that I risk two units down when I attack. Now please hear this. I don't attack until I have that back. I never give up ground I have already won. It makes no sense to allow yourself to be dug into a great big hole.
I can't teach anything to people that can't get past this concept. It only took one basic example to find out why. Most people don't know how to control what happens to them. It's an eye opening experience. I can't imagine plodding along blindly, not knowing what to do, expecting wishful thinking to work for them. Until this phase is dealt with, nothing seems to matter.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 05, 2013, 05:16:50 PM
Now please hear this. I don't attack until I have that back. I never give up ground I have already won. It makes no sense to allow yourself to be dug into a great big hole.
It's a good strategy, but sometimes it's tough, nay, impossible to avoid draw-downs, otherwise you wouldn't need a bankroll. Even if you have a true and significant advantage it can't be avoided. When you say "I don't attack until I have that back", does that mean you never raise your stakes until you're back at break-even? If that's the case, then it means you're relying on flat-betting at times, but if you can climb back when you need to by flat betting, why not do it all the time?
Like I said before. I have to place a bet on every spin. I have my small bankroll and my attacking bankroll. If the session looks like it will be easy then I use a regressive method to get back in the game. That means I use a one quarter to one half value of my original losing bet to get a few wins. If that proves difficult then I'm out. I can stick around on minimum bets for hours. There's always huge opportunities lurking around. You just have to be prepared to take some educated risk. You don't have to take the elevator down.
Gizmo much respect. You taught me alot about trends and for that im grateful. Trends do have their place and they can be very effective. My downfall was always staying even or getting into a hole and having a hard time getting out. There is no doubt that you have the experience to use it effectively.
I've been doing something a little differently, instead of hopping on the trends, i play how i think a random stream might behave. I know there are usually tons of singles, less doubles, even less triples, and hardly any quads or more. I play for these times while also playing the streak or trend just as much as the anti-trend or anti-pattern. Random does both equally, so i have to be on both sides, not just the trend.
The law of series, and the amount of switching usually behaves in a typical fashion. This is how i have come to understand random.
You see deeply into what's currently happening like I do. That's obviously beyond the scope of these basic discussions of randomness.You have learned to find your own way through it. I'm glad to hear you have found a way to make it work for you.
Quote from: Gizmotron on January 31, 2013, 07:41:34 PM
Just for the record, there has never been a trigger based system that ever proved to be economically viable in the past 200 years of attempting to find one. All rule based systems encounter more sequences that kill them off than can be avoided by any known creative discovery.
You are sadly mistaken there buddy.
Some trigger based systems do have the potential to be economically viable, but as you say too many losing sequence kill them off.
The mistakes people make are to try and avoid the killer sequences, or try and push through with firebrand progressions, both are exercises in futility.
Well what if you can flat line all the killer sequences and let the winning sequences roll on unimpeded? This is similar to what you advise, bet small when things aren't clear and attack when they are. Well you can do this with triggers, absolutely.
That's what my trigger based system does very effectively. It doesn't lose much money but it does lose time. It can take a thousand spins or more to come through some bad dispersions, but it comes through will relatively small bankroll fluctuations or drawdowns. Then the profits roll in until the next flat line.
Think of trigger based systems like a game of snakes & ladders, now cut out all the snakes, lay them flat and paste them back on the board. That's how you make a trigger based system economically viable. It's not easy to do, and takes an enormous amount of calculation & configuring, but it can be done.
If you listen to yourself you will see that all you are suggesting is potential possibilities. To some of us that's the same as wishful thinking. If you have a trigger based system to try out then please start a thread. There might still be a few experts around here that might like to power simulate it. Thanks
Quote from: billion loudspeaker on February 14, 2013, 09:54:24 PM
You are sadly mistaken there buddy.
Some trigger based systems do have the potential to be economically viable, but as you say too many losing sequence kill them off.
The mistakes people make are to try and avoid the killer sequences, or try and push through with firebrand progressions, both are exercises in futility.
Well what if you can flat line all the killer sequences and let the winning sequences roll on unimpeded? This is similar to what you advise, bet small when things aren't clear and attack when they are. Well you can do this with triggers, absolutely.
That's what my trigger based system does very effectively. It doesn't lose much money but it does lose time. It can take a thousand spins or more to come through some bad dispersions, but it comes through will relatively small bankroll fluctuations or drawdowns. Then the profits roll in until the next flat line.
Think of trigger based systems like a game of snakes & ladders, now cut out all the snakes, lay them flat and paste them back on the board. That's how you make a trigger based system economically viable. It's not easy to do, and takes an enormous amount of calculation & configuring, but it can be done.
Quote from: Gizmotron on February 14, 2013, 11:31:31 PM
If you listen to yourself you will see that all you are suggesting is potential possibilities. To some of us that's the same as wishful thinking. If you have a trigger based system to try out then please start a thread. There might still be a few experts around here that might like to power simulate it. Thanks
Ok, I might just do that.
Thanks.