RoulettKEY -" Ignatus...why do you not ever listen to people who have far more experience in testing, study and play than you?

No one here is trying to beat you down...we offer constructive advice and then you get offended and it spirals a little outta control sometimes.

I can recall on another board being scolded by you for "complaining too much" when I tried to offer a voice of reason because you had invented the grail which I knew did not work...(this is just a month ago)...you would not listen to reason. Your minions had run thousands and thousands of spins with defective math and were ready to own the casinos. You continued to deride me and within 12 hours of the holy grails discovery it was fully tested, annoited, and anyone with a voice of reason shouted down...oh yeah..and then it was removed because of faulty math, faulty logic and it crashed and burned... And...it did so in such a dramatic way that you removed the entire thread as if it had never happened.

Do you get your kicks by starting these kind of threads and then just try to keep punking people?

Just askin'. Real players try to help you and everytime we all come away with the same feeling...every single friggin time. I am sure I am not speaking solely for myself. I do not know Gizmo or Ophis...have never talked to either. But I've read their posts, and I've read yours. You may not agree but you should take counsel and respond with a little dignity. Take it for what it's worth.

Now just a tidbit on your 123-Move. It's a 12 or 13 number bet with basically 3 sets of 3 fixed wheel sectors. You just linked wheel sectors 1,2 and 3 together and called it dozen 1...wheel sectors 4,5 and 6 together...dozen 2. Wheel sectors 7,8 and 9 together...dozen three. It's not revolutionary. You are talking to people like they have never bet wheel sectors before. We have...we do.

Some sector methods play the center sector and the two neighbors, sometimes people take the last number hit and it's direct 6 neighbors on either side (keeping with your dozens theme). Some are looking for hot numbers and other sleepers, others are looking for patterns such as your 1.2.3 or 3.2.1. People are speaking from experience that you are not giving them credit for because anybody that has been on the forums or around the wheels for any length of time have seen it, done it and know what the upside and downside of these methods are. We are trying to tell you.

Many methods can be great if they are just 10% new. Just a little different slant at the way you look at something. Change the trigger, change a progression, implement mid-stream stop-losses...the list goes on and on so far as the tweaks that make a decent method an exceptional method. The problem is many of the best tweaks make the methods difficult to track and play in live wheel sessions and that has to be taken into consideration as well. There are many players on these forums that can be a great asset to you...don't keep driving everyone away and wondering aloud why no one will help you test today's great idea."



Just thought I would save this before it was cowardly removed.

Just for the record, there has never been a trigger based system that ever proved to be economically viable in the past 200 years of attempting to find one. All rule based systems encounter more sequences that kill them off than can be avoided by any known creative discovery. We have not seen one yet either. I will remove every JL post from this thread. He has not proven anything. So he will be politely removed from posting in this thread. If you want to read his drivel then seek it elsewhere.

This thread is to discuss the true failings of system players, in front of their faces, but behind their backs. So kindly don't bother to defend system play in this thread. Otherwise your rantings will be removed.

When it comes to table layout groupings compared to wheel sector groupings there is no beneficial difference. The characteristics of randomness are the same. To believe there is,  leaves the uninformed gambler with the consequences of suffering from magical thinking. Magical thinking leads to loss of bankroll. Telling other people that magical things makes for success leads to eventual embarrassment. There should be a price for leading others to financial doom. This thread is for that doom.

I think this will turn out to be a a great thread! 

BTW,  "Fortune favors the prepared mind" - a nice byline 

I do so agree with Gizmotron here... Magic, voodoo, superstition - surely we cannot hope to beat the roulette with these.... If we persist with stars in our eyes and our heads in the clouds and attack without due care or rationale then eventually we must endure and suffer the consequences of our oversights and failings as certain as the night follows the day.

Instead, for our own benefit and to experience success in this endeavour, we must attack with out feet firmly planted on the ground armed with the bows and arrows of knowledge, information, technique, logic, reason and certainties. Accepting the truth and with no illusory expectation we must venture on guardedly with a purposeful plan that is not beset with much weakness in order that that overall we can attain to regular and highly prized systematic victories. With that we are strong and successful.

But then that is a very tall order and indeed no small accomplishment. We can but seek and try our best - individually and as a group - such is the purpose of this meeting place.... Who knows what may transpire with the light of intelligent minds all focussing intently upon discovering a reasonable and workable solution to this age-old problem of roulette? If so, and with this powerful impetus and group resolve, could in fact a method be found and forged that might surpass all previous attempts? I wonder?... Or are we doomed to forever go round and round in circles, trying this way and that way again and again and unwittingly not realising that all these paths have been trodden before and that they just simply are a waste of time and will inevitably lead to frustration, despair, sadness and sorrow?

Of course we can expect new attempts and ideas to come upon the scene. These will also surely follow inevitably as well - but always remember the saying that "there is nothing new under the Sun".

Despite all - perhaps still there is within the bounds of credibility that by conceivably combining and unifying the old ideas and facts with the light of new reason and new approaches something could emerge that could form the basis of a stronger weapon to use in the war against roulette.

A. 

Nice addition to this thread.

I've focused on the double dozens/columns/wheelDozens for decades. I've also spent a few years exclusively on even chances only. I've tried flat betting and two level betting.

In all that there is, there is one tactic that must be dealt with. There must be a constant vigilance with regards to what is currently happening. Wishful thinking leads to disaster.

The secret to beating this is in being aware of the current states. You must know what characteristics of randomness are working. That can be discussed for any betting group. So if it where me, that is where discussion might be the greatest value .

Beating roulette lies in testing and practice. You have
to practice like a scientist approaches testing. He has
strict rules he follows so his own personal biases and
misinformation don't pollute the testing outcomes. He's
not looking to prove anything, he's looking for real unbiased
results. Anything else is useless. Does what you do win,
or doesn't it. If it doesn't, don't keep curve fitting the results
until you've deluded yourself into thinking it's a winner.

No real scientist would do this. You're only interested in the
truth, is it a winner or not. But who works this way. Not
many.

It's not enough to see patterns and trends as triggers. They don't always work. They can be detected as working though. You have to be smarter than the chips.

Quote from: Gizmotron on January 31, 2013, 10:40:21 PM

In all that there is, there is one tactic that must be dealt with. There must be a constant vigilance with regards to what is currently happening. Wishful thinking leads to disaster.

The secret to beating this is in being aware of the current states. You must know what characteristics of randomness are working. That can be discussed for any betting group. So if it where me, that is where discussion might be the greatest value .

I fully agree with this
mechanical systems will fail
you can't have a system like if number 1 hits play this, if 2 hits play that (just a simple example)
you have to change with every spin - because every spin is independant
my english is not good as your is guys so I can't and don't know how to have a smart conversation with fancy words, I keep it simple
If every spin is random then there is no way of knowing what will come next, it's random
anything can and wil happen
thinking that anything can give you an edge over that is no good
yes, you can argue about VB but then the wheel is not random is it? (dealer signature and all)
wha I am trying to say is I agree with Gizmo - a way of play shoud change with the spins and bet different every time ( ie today after number 1 you bet this, later after number 1 you bet that)
hope you understand what I am trying to say

Here's the really big deal. It doesn't matter if what I say is right. People are getting it. I have already opened a Pandora's box. Randomness studies leads to solutions that offer successes.

Quote from: Gizmotron on February 01, 2013, 06:42:09 AM
Here's the really big deal. It doesn't matter if what I say is right. People are getting it. I have already opened a Pandores box. Randomness studies leads to solutions that offer successes.

well you sure have me starting to think that is the right path

Quote from: Gizmotron on February 01, 2013, 06:42:09 AM
I have already opened a Pandora's box.

What day was that, I missed it. Could you open it again
and let us know the exact time so we'll know what the
heck you're talking about most of the time?

Quote from: spike on February 01, 2013, 08:55:57 AM
What day was that, I missed it. Could you open it again
and let us know the exact time so we'll know what the
heck you're talking about most of the time?

Could write some similar!

Quote from: soggett on February 01, 2013, 06:29:27 AM

a way of play shoud change with the spins and bet different every time ( ie today after number 1 you bet this, later after number 1 you bet that)

You are right soggett and that's why trying to explain things can get complicated because there are a lot of different variables when you are dealing with random.

Experience also counts for a lot.

Quote from: spike on February 01, 2013, 08:55:57 AM
What day was that, I missed it. Could you open it again
and let us know the exact time so we'll know what the
heck you're talking about most of the time?

Like they say in show business. Keep them wanting more.

" Randomness studies leads to solutions that offer successes." And that will eventually lead to enough people using it that will then close down most, if not all, table games in casinos.

Quote from: Gizmotron on February 01, 2013, 04:11:48 PM
Like they say in show business. Keep them wanting more.

Or a JL statement!