You are correct to a certain point.  Yes. 

However, there are various kinds of forums on today's internet.

1) A for pay only entrance type of site, meaning a closed and private site that 'is what it is' in the realism of those words.  BTC would be an example of that;

2) Then there are the very large free for all with 30 to 50 active rooms/departments going on in all directions, such as: VMB and WOV as well as numerous other ones of smaller membership.  Bear in mind, most all the content is consumerish (IMO and reality) of course others might and will challenge that last statement I am sure;

3)  Then there are a few small specialized ones, such as our here, BetSelection.  The theory was no advertising, members police themselves, more technical and BLOGS from its members and a few other casino related rooms/areas. 

For sake of space and clarity, I will limited by outline to those 3 areas above.  Myself, I have been around casinos and gambling for 35 years or so and have countless family members employed within the casino industry in Atlantic City, Las Vegas and the Midwest Region of the USA. 

I don't know everything about gaming, but I will boast and I will state I know a heck of a lot, let's just say more than many and not as much as everyone.  I found a home here on BetSelection and have left a couple of times, caused problems to defend my point/feelings, etc.  I was on VMB and WOV for a few years a while back, but nothing except drama, consumerish stuff and lots of sheer ego and chest pumping with whom is best liked or most hated, IMO and in 90%-98% reality. 

As far as the small town relation you outlined, I live in the Midwest at the moment and in an extremely small town and I have spent decades in New York City/Metro New Jersey before.  Both have pros and cons as far as sharing, advantages and different societal communities.  Some find New York City friendlier and more quaint then a rural Midwest town of say 1,000 people with all those little business in its downtown section.  Some would say just the opposite as well.  IMO, there is no winner, it is just preference.

As far as the board here, IMO once again, I believe we have a great board with the premises, smaller is better without all the gibberish and drama and worthless advertising.  We had lots more traffic but it was among about 5 or 6 people with an exclusive circle of about 10 or so members that attempted to rule, over take and control the board with one-liners, strong handed acceptance tactics, double talk and if it is not my way I will tell everyone to leave, etc., type of postings.  If you want those people, to the best of my knowledge they are all over at a forum called Gamblersforum, the small group was banned from here but recently almost all of them were allowed back, some post and some do not. 

I believe I attempted to really accomplish what you might have in mind regarding roulette play at B&M casinos, but for the game of baccarat.

Myself, I truly do welcome all types form all walks of life.  But I subscribe to that Barnes and Noble Bookstore mentality for the shopper.  Which is, browse, read and enjoy.  But, if you don't like something, set it down, move on and as you would in Barnes and Noble, no need to write, post and bother that author relentlessly and make your point over his, as no one made you pick up and read his book, waste your time and waste your money.  Same here.  Just other places that last scenario is what they really live each day to do, enter the ring, chastise, humiliate, call names and attempt to keep the circle of friends tight and the outsiders wishing to get in.   

However, if you do have a great cherry pie and are looking to share it, maybe you would like to get some of a super fantastic peach pie or a KimChi-Bulgogi knock your socks off pizza or perhaps a mouth watering special PHO soup with some killer meatball stuffed fresh spring rolls???

I understand and have read the comments by the so-called 'experts' and 'experienced' players on this board and some of the other boards, that I go into too much detail.  Then they comment on how through they are themselves, how dedicated they are and yet, they openly express, time after time, how they each do not have the time to read what I write or others write that are more than a few short sentences.  How much can one actually contradict themselves?  Seriously?

Please read the following, it is obviously shortened up a bit:

"Others will not understand the difference, which the long term players have experienced, are willing to actually share, educate and give them huge advantages to avoid suffering.  Why?  I don't know.  I can only imagine when most try to figure out why someone like me, would spend the time and all the trouble to type out long and detailed articles about casino gambling and baccarat, it is all made up fallacy and I have nothing better to do.  They compare mine to the scammers, the salesman, the shysters, the know it all that don't actually play, the paid for mentors and many other types of people that actually make their living (or extra cash) by selling hype and fallacy. 

I guess the drama, humor, trickery, one liners, attempting to control websites, small groups of players claiming high and elite gambling success status, etc., use various message boards for the spread of false beliefs they preach as real, for entertainment purposes I can only imagine.  And the sad part of it all is, the innocent and inexperienced that fall prey to those types."

When I think back on almost any subject, business, technique worth anything, etc., there was always quite a bit of research, reading, finding subject and content, etc., if it was actually worth anything to myself.  Not just gambling, but almost anything else.  I have not had the extreme privilege, that those boasting on here as well as the other message boards on the internet cite, "I want to read a few sentences and learn, when someone writes and writes and writes I cannot follow or actually learn anything".  I read that from one of the so called expert players that boast about keeping message board posts short, to the point and real. 

Seriously, what am I missing?

Back to the Bottom Line..........

Sitting there at the bac table, really thinking........thinking from the aspect of player with my money at risk........coupled with the message boarder in me and the moderator of BetSelection......coupled with the all familiar aspect of 'experience' on top of it all.

Some of the most important things that easily get overlooked, forgotten, left out, worked before therefore I know it can't work every time, etc., etc., and so on.  In other words, self-satisfying excuses to allow me to sit there, not think so hard and just gamble.  Yeah, right, nice try.  The brain was and is always in gear at the semi circled bac table!

1)    Works for a small section, say 3 or 4 sections of the card/game. Players try everything, as far as amounts, dealers, other player's suggestions, etc.  They really need to concentrate and always remember, as rule number 1, small sections, say splitting the horizontal "big-road" up into 3 or 4 sections.  Sections tend to follow within, at a much higher and greater consistency by far, than anything else.  Problem occurs when the player wants to carry it all over the whole card and even to subsequent shoes of play. 

2)   We see, we read, we look, etc., and so on.  We are all susceptible to influence.  Be careful, no need to be real cold to others, just be 100% conscious of what you are believing and getting sucked into.  If it works within a section, great, by al means profit from it, when it stops, you stop.  Forget it, move on to something else.  What the heck?  Doesn't really matter how you made the money, you made it, hold it and turn it into more.  Do not, I repeat, do not count on what just worked to keep working, it will not, no way.  And if it does, you tend to mess up your thought train even worse because you backed off.  Figure it out, adjust and work it.

3)   Some of it vital and other parts of what we take in, need to be understood as being dangerous, extremely volatile and as well, exploitable and vital at times.  Again, be careful, do not get sucked in where you begin to believe you found the holy grail, there is none.  Maybe there is in the extreme short run, but after a while, you will finally realize, there is none. 

4)   Small grind will never work past a session or maybe, a few sessions during a few days.  Because the losses will come that will simply wipe you out of that profit quickly.  Those that talk about winning one or two or three units, consistently, every day, day in and day out, are IMO, completely fraudulent in their truthfulness on the message board thing.  Sorry, I have been around far too long at the gaming tables and seen far too many people, in fact, everyone that every tried to continuously earn just a little bit every day, go bust.  Every single one of them.  Then the rut (losses) start and set in.  Besides the immediate losses, the losses will always climb as your thinking process gets all kinds of ideas as to coming out of the losses back to even or profitable.  The losses will grow and grow and you will make riskier and riskier wagers, with a few of them winning, but the majority of them losing.  It is a cycle you need to avoid. 

5)   Human Nature.  A super important topic that most players have no clue about.  They do not factor it in, they do not think about it, they do not read about it, they chose to ignore it as it has nothing to really do with math, statistics or the game.  At least in the classical sense anyways.  But it really does and your nature will govern you in more ways than one.  Learn about it, read and explore.  Be conscious of it. 

[OP's outline I copied and answered] As Follows: My answers/comments are in Blue.  Thanks, Alrelax.

1.How possible is an, approximately, 80% of all forums' members to have a long term winning strategy such as yours?

(IMO, no way to weigh the numbers, a total number as well as background on the majority of the members is actually unknown to me and everyone else.  There is greater self-hibernation from and caused by members, than that of exposure in reality).

2.Would not that be highly unlikely?

Now this question is not entirely hypothetical but based on my personal observation over the course of years;

(No way to answer)

3. There are not as many members as they used to be:

(Yes, I agree.  Lots went by the way side.  There was a couple years of aggressive membership, response and participation.  However, the repeated "bad" staff at WOV and VMB as well as the key members, all blasted everyone that did not conform to a very trivial and extremely little agenda.  As well, the focus has been greater on non-gaming agenda by far with almost all message boards rather than the other way around.)

4. From the fewer members there is significant less interest in participating on topics regarding strategies and in general about how to win on long term basis than what it used to be on the past.

(See my answer to number #3 above.  Similar by all means.  Members are down out tired of being repeatedly blasted by the continuous and repetitive one-liners, "you are wrong" and that is that, type of blasting, etc.  I have numerous emails, PM's, etc., that I have shared with Vic from previous very active members due to the aggressive circle of 4-5-6 or 7 members that made it their daily routine to blast, degrade, humiliate those that really did contribute to the board.  Sad but 100% true!)

5. People prefer to discuss more about unrelated subjects rather than contributing all as a team to a mutual and beneficial cause/goal.

(I see nothing wrong at all with "extra" talk, discussion, stories, whether about food, cites, Vegas or Atlantic City or other gambling destination, hobbies or sports.  Just take it to another part of the board and off the topic if the topic is a technical one.  What is wrong with that??)

6. More minds are able to achieve easier and better than a single alone.

(I agree, not one doubt about it.)

7. Even if you would share a long term winning method, do you think that all gamblers worldwide would read your topic? 

(Simply no.)

8. Do you think that from those who would read it all of them would use it, let alone to the letter??

(Simply and most definitely no.)

9. Do you think that casinos would close, stop roulette game, or even change its rules, which have never changed since 1 and a half century ago???

(Absolutely not.)

10. What is the real reason behind this behavior?

(People will not admit their short comings.  Stubborn beyond belief.  They choose to avoid being shamed, especially when it comes to losing money or failing to win it.  The more intelligent one person is, the harder it is for him to listen, research openly, apply what he learns, etc.  It is the psych of the older male, unlike a young pre-teen or a teenager.  We doom ourselves.  We each have to be the hero.  Plain and simple!!!!!)

11. Don't you think that forums are a great mean to connect people worldwide under a common cause/goal?

(Of course they are, but many do not wish to participate because of all the berating, humiliation and chastising.  I have that in writing from so many members that have stopped posting or will not post.)


12. Why they are not focused groups of individuals, instead we see too much blah blah speaking about nothing practically, or about promoting products and services to potential customers?

(Because people are too strong headed, know everything and are plain stubborn and will not work together, especially when money is concerned.)


13. Why when there were important efforts a few persons derailed those topics and from the practical considerations we ended up striving to prove a point, defending our positions from the intruding negativity?

(See my answer to #10 above.  Much the exact same!)

14. If some have found something which works AND don't desire to share it then what on earth are they doing here?

(Hard to answer without knowing whom and what it exactly is.  I share almost all, I am usually cut short but that previous circle of aggressive members we had on here.  AT times I just put a lot of work into the board and other come along and trash what I have to say or how I say it all.  I even posted pictures of actually wins and chips, and then I got blasted for so much along with that, it was fake, or I was showing off, or that was only a rarity, etc., etc., etc.)

15. If they want to have a conversation and/or pass time then why they don't do it outside forums, with any other persons and/or activities??

(Again, hard to answer without knowing the people and the exact situation each time.  But in general, it is nice to share certain things each of us would enjoy sharing, whether recipes for cooking, certain events, visiting casino or other properties (AKA; Trip Reports) such as we used to do in great detail on VMB with actually dates, times, details, plenty of pictures, etc., etc., etc.) 




To my great disappointment I came to realize that I'm speaking alone and the forums are not being used the way it's meant to be used!

Other reasons and answers:

Today more than yesterday, members feel as though, "why bear my soul, I don't even know these people"?

Without experience, one cannot or will have a real hard time to actually understand the casino aura and results, no matter what he thinks, he will have a tough psych time to handle wins of any size without staying there and eventually understanding the loss is forthcoming.

When a member or members make perfect sense from experience and reality on the board in technical terms and details, you can bet that there will be several others that will challenge, attack and undermine just that.  It is called drama, provoking, disturbing, and things along those lines.  It is not right or moral or ethical, but they continually do it for the sake of being in the forefront and then cry foul and discrimination when moderated. 

False positives whether lies or twists and turns of something basically accurate or the results of someone's experience, are basically killers.  Offering a false sense of what reality actually is as that same reality is changed, twisted and turned by the naysayers, the trouble makers, the aggressive group of members, etc., etc. and all of the results of same--hurts the serious members that want to engage, discuss, detail out and share the gaming experience they had or planning, etc. 

Excellent post when I get time I'd like to give my two cents, I have some insight to some of the questions from a players perspective that is.

What so many (countless) players do not even consider is, "The event I am wagering for or told to wager, does it even actually exist or just occasionally happen"? 

IMO and experience playing in B&M's, that is the number one thing that fuels with extreme emotional and overpowering 'false positives' the player that is actually playing live and gambling. 

Regarding the Crickets if I may.

In my opinion they are all out there, they read,  they watch,  they don't say anything, they look, they Wonder, they go do their thing, it fails,  they come back, they still see the Crickets but they don't see anything else.

Excellent!  Reference the O.P., IMO.

 Mark,

I hope you will stick around! 

Thanks for coming back, Glen.

Quote from: VLS on October 18, 2018, 11:17:26 AM
The site was under Glen's domain account for a while (i.e. full ownership), then it was returned to mine.

No big conspiracy or anything.

This is what happened.

Thanks Vic, and this should put the entire subject to rest.

BTW, I am dissolving my partnership in my Haz-Mat Environmental business and I made the career decision to go into the restaurant and bar business. If everything goes right I will have a state gaming license and the ability to put in some video gaming machines along with some poker tables, etc.  THe place will be a restaurant, bar and entertainment type of place. 

Thanks, Glen.

Be Careful on the Internet!

They are getting more sophisticated and official looking. 

Yes, we all know there are scams and solicitations from all kinds of unknown people hitting our email boxes and other forms of communication on the internet. 

Personally, I don't do any buying on the internet, unless it is something from EBay, Amazon, or one of the other sites that I regularly do business with and I have to initiate it all.  As well as paying the bills, etc. 

I see all the variations of the attempts, that are blindly sent each and every day, everything from EBay to the larger United States Banks claiming something is wrong with an account I have there (and I never ever banked with them) or from some other source such as Yahoo or Gmail, etc., etc., and if responded to, the attempt will be a fraudulent approach to have me pay something to them for their scam attempt.

Every one of my utilities, credit cards, and every one I deal with, repeatedly tells me, do not respond or click on anything that appears to be from them with notices to pay, unless it is something that I know what I used or bought and I initiated, etc.

As well, there are dead set give away factors, which the solicitations are from a fraudulent source.  1) The "From" email address, it is almost always a variation of the real company.  Such as, Payments@EBay.Com, would be sent fraudulently as, Payments@e.Ebay.Com or something else, so if you click on to the reply to the header of your email, it will get bounced back to you and then you will go looking elsewhere within that email notice for another link to reply to.  And that link will go to the scammer every time.  There are different variations of what I said above, but the one I laid out is the basic set up. 

Now, I get something over the weekend.  Real strange, real good I must say.  Only problem is, I switched my PayPal account which is now in another family members name as well as another email address than my original PayPal account was for many years. 

You see with PayPal you can actually look up a user's name or email, that his account is under in order to process a request for payment or to send him money, etc.   So the PayPal can be made out to your email or you name, does not matter.  In this case I receive a processed payment, stating that I sent a payment in the amount of $108.91 USD to "Payment@Airbnb.Com" which is a new business website that lists private homes, apartments, bed & breakfasts inns, motel rooms extended stay, etc.  And yes you can pay with PayPal as well.  The bottom of it is styles after EBay, where is says Seller, Shipping Address, Note to Seller, Shipping Details, etc.  Although I have not completed a transaction on Airbnb, I went on their website last week after my wife told me about it and she used it to book a room for a trip she is on, but all that was under another email address, nothing to do with me.  But I did go on the website and checked it out last week. 

So I get the above payment conformation, like I said and it looked pretty good and at first I am like, hey wait a second no way!  I did not do anything.  Then after starring at it, I realized, wrong email and my current PayPal is not under that email any longer, no personal name and if it was really Airbnb, they would have my ID you have to submit as well.  Also the shipping address and seller and all that is from EBay types of sales, etc.

Then I noticed the TRANSACTION ID # with is a series of a long 20 capital letters with a highlighted link for itself, they assume I will click on.  I did not, but it was very obvious.

So, I called PayPal and told them all this, they transferred me to their security department and went through it all again.  They told me there is a scam going around that fits this and they told me to contact the case agent with the United States Secret Service that is working the case against these people doing this scam.  I talked to the Secret Service Agent and he told me, if I did click on the link with those 20 capital letters, I would have been redirected and the PayPal order processed, etc.  It listed the seller in Houston, Texas but that is all fraudulent anyway. 

The Secret Service Agent says they go on the Airbnb website and place a fake ad for a rental property usually a super great deal in a large metro area with a real low nightly price to get you to click on it and they obtain certain info from your computer/browser, etc., of your interest.  And that is the way it all starts.  The Secret Service Agent had me connect to his computer and I granted him permission to pull whatever info he needed from mine in regards to my browsing the Airbnb website. 

He also told me there is numerous scams of similar nature with all sorts of other larger commercial websites, and any website that forwards info back to the advertisers, of whom clicked on their ads or services can set something up like this. 

PayPal is strict on their account set up and with their verification process and holding periods, etc., I see many problems for the people using PayPal to do this.  Unlike Western Union and other money transfer services, one can continually use those services without shutdown.  But hey, maybe there is ways around all that? 

But I will tell you, there is great creativity in the new scams and it is getting more and more sophisticated. 

Be careful what you click on, even if you are thinking you are just going to check something out, it might not appear what it seems. 

The forum had a change of ownership and recently after the evaluation, long term goals, my own lack of computer programming knowledge, my family and business plans, etc., everything considered and combined, I transferred the ownership and ultimate control back to Victor.

Everything else is really irrelevant. 

Thanks, Alrelax/Glen.

 
"More than inviting people to play with me FOR FREE and putting my name on it I can't.
Telling that I'm mentoring $10k or more betting players won't' help, I guess."

Written by: as.


"Virtually yes but it will happen.  I've seen this concept and have played it some in the past."
Written by; Jimske.


I read those both last night, sat back, thought.  Yes, correct.  Simple but players complicate themselves past understanding, although they convince themselves that they understand 100%.  Some of the members here as well on the other boards, really do have a great deal of experience and valuable details and knowledge from their own blood, sweat and tears.  And, they are here or there attempting to share it and possibly learn as well.  But on the other hand, their seems to be, IMO, an outweighing of people that are using these boards and forums for anything but, what I just mentioned.  Which causes, again IMO, a suppression of the more serious members and people from a productive and engaging conversation and assortment of posting bringing it more personal and non-topic related.

Today's internet for the masses is viewed as the road to riches.  It is the definitive knowledge power house.  Or, something along those lines.  Which in many ways it is, but in an equal or greater amount, it is not.  Yes, the internet has answers, knowledge and lots of information.  Some of it correct and accurate and some of it false and not accurate at all.  Yet, other things on the internet or unverified and assumptions as well. There is also a great deal of thoughts, ideas and theories which are all interpreted by the reader with varying views and applications. 

You see, years ago there was basically two things published.  Textbooks and novels of one type or another.  The textbooks were for the most part, double sourced and triple sourced.  The novels were all understood to be some type of story or documentary, etc., as to the subject.  As far as all the hearsay, stories, theories, assumptions and other things of similar nature, that was accomplished by word of mouth, where one had the opportunity to size up, evaluate and weigh the information being given.  Today that same thing exist, but we are so used to Googling and things of a similar nature that usually returns correct results and info at our finger tips.  So, we get spoiled and lazy in our learning process.

What do I mean?  Well the other day I wanted a kitchen item.  So I Googled it.  Up comes 100 plus options.  The top three.  Sam's Club $140.27, Home Depot $130.99 and Sears $190.99.  All three, well known national retail stores.  No one is lying.  No scams and no phony anything.  Plain and simple.

Another one.  Watching something on TV.  The show referred to an event I never heard of.  I get on the internet and I Google it.  Up comes the Wiki write up on it.  Quick, informative, and obviously the majority of it is well researched, referenced and factual. 

So I get on a gambling site, a message board, a casino forum, etc., etc.   Is it going to be the same as Google results, Wiki factual information, other well researched and double and triple sourced newspaper or technical article publications, etc?  Is what someone called Lucky7-Joe Blow, telling us the truth about what he won using his 14 step/rule baccarat method that he tested and tested over the years, where he wagers for the cut after the 4th or 5th repeating hand on either the Banker or Player and he wins XYZ-$$$, etc.?  How about the guy named I-Been-There & Won, how he repeatedly wins at the casino because he follows so and so system or some guy's method he only paid $799.00 for and how he earned that back the first day and now is considered a professional gambler living the life of luxury as well as sleeping until noon and always having a pocket full of cash, etc., etc. 

How about the guy named Mr. Cool Always 9, how he used to work a 9 to 5 job and now he rides the subway in NYC to Queens Casino and profits and easy $300.00 to $400.00 day in and day out, making a cool $2,000.00 a week for his 3 hour total investment time per day and spends hours upon hours on the message boards creating drama and talking people down.  His response when approached is usually something like, "I kill time because I am now financially set, I mess with the people on these message boards", or something along those lines anyway.

There are countless examples I can give, but you get the idea I am sure.  But then there are those that put lots of time into explaining their way of play and several others will gang up on those types as well.  Even if the information and experience is accurate and being shared in a camaraderie type of professional way, the jokesters and the drama queens will not allow that.  So information, experience and actual hard-core vital information that could prove really useful to so many is easily pushed by the way side for many reasons. 

Then you have a whole other set of people that come on these message board, casino forums and websites to defend or retaliate against other members and website owners that have nothing to do with the site they are broadcasting their problems on, but they were banned or moderated on another site so they have to keep their agenda going by coming on and attempting the domination and misuse of the site they are currently on. 

Most of you know I enjoy cooking, recipes and restaurants, etc.  I have written about it within my own Blog here.  I was on another food related message board a while back.  I posted something non-food related in a food section and BAM, deleted and moderated within hours.  Warned and rules cited and enforced.  Yes, the way it should be.  And if you don't like it, move on.  Nothing wrong.   And there overall persona of the members, thousands of them, is if you don't agree with another members, state why with facts and experiences and supporting details and then move on.  No drama, names, calling out and challenges of childish types.

So, what do you believe, why do you believe it?  Is the internet a catch all and a free for all?  Can you base everything on something you read and actually interface with each member because they came on and stated a 10 point gambling plan or a 13 rule cancelling system that cannot hold up and will drive almost the highest 90 percentile players attempting it out of 100 to lose their buy in funds to the casino without a doubt? 

Then when someone writes details with experiences, they are literally attacked by several with short, one liners, that are the members repetitive and usually only contribution to the site, therefore bringing them attention as well as highlighting actual details and experiences being posted within a forum as a comical and hard to believe agenda because of the more seasoned and so called senior members throwing that proverbial monkey wrench into the picture so very often. 

Like being at a public library, remember those?  Where we used to actually read, study, research and gain knowledge.  But being there with just a few of the senior members and a few of the brand new anonymous ones, that claim they are the real successful ones and as they walk around, contribute nothing, lack personal hygiene, spilling their coffee laced with alcohol, reeking of cigarette smoke, bothering everyone and all the staff in sight, causing the atmosphere to be one of just a miserable place to be for the members that actually have the motivation and the energy to use the place in the correct manner.

Quote from: AsymBacGuy on October 07, 2018, 10:50:54 PM
Ok with your points Al.

But we ought to remember that the probability that properly dissected patterns happened in the previous shoe will repeat in the same position and in the next shoe are virtually zero. Let's safely say zero point zero.
This is a good starting point, imo.

as.

I never said or meant to imply previous shoes or future shoes will copy the instant shoe you are playing or have played.

But at times they do and on the other hand at times they will not, and they will not by far. But when they do you have to have the neutrality in order to recognize it and then stop after some good instant larger wins.

I hope that's understandable what I just said to most of the people here





   

And the Step # 5 talked about above, is one of the easiest and best sections that will usually develop for the player. Do not ask what that might be, as it can be anything from 15 alternating chops, to 4 consecutive streaks of 7 to 10 Bs and Ps, to 4s and 5s of both side with 5 Fortune 7s, or many other things.  It is just after an extended period of hands, that an upcoming section with a turning point, will appear as well as naturally go away.  That is the time to parlay, side wager, stack it up, etc., etc.